Kamille Posted July 25, 2010 Posted July 25, 2010 SP, you know I wish you well and respect you but please allow me to say, with love and care: Stop the pity party! You are attractive and you know it. You are likely as attractive as your coworker. Perhaps in a different way, but I'm willing to bet on this. Clearly, the problem isn't about physical appearance. It's relational. Interactional. It's about how you interact with people. Please answer the following questions honestly, perhaps not on here, but at least to yourself: 1) Did you flirt and smile with those Aussies? 2) Did you ask them questions about themselves? and 3) did you allow yourself to feel comfortable around them? To be yourself around them? I think you put a lot of social pressure on yourself to impress people and don't allow yourself to just shine through. I think you might not know how to be at peace with yourself and stop caring what others think. If she were merely hit on that would be one hting, but the guy so blatantly ignored me and didn't give me an invite. I was basically rejected. He didn't invite you because it had nothing to do with you. He was hitting on her because he was attracted to her. Please tell me you understand the difference. Also, perhaps the two other guys are already taken. You just don't know why you didn't get invited. So why are you getting upset about it?
Els Posted July 25, 2010 Posted July 25, 2010 So you're assuming I'm far less attractive? I think this is partly what gets to me. Before this happened, I didn't even think she was necessarily any more attractive than I am. Not that there's anything wrong with a girl being prettier, but it makes me feel like my perception of my own attractiveness was too high, because I wouldn't say this girl is unusually pretty. It was like "oh, I guess I really am just not attractive, or I guess I really am just average." The thing that's weird is people always told me that looks was the last thing I had to worry about because I am attractive, but I guess that's not the case. You may or may not be less attractive, but as you yourself said you thought she was more attractive, I'm working from that perspective. Shadow, the thing here is that for whatever reason they did this, it was a shallow one. Maybe she sent out all the flirty eye signals. Maybe she looked like she'd be easy to coax into bed. Who knows? No matter what it is, it definitely wasn't because she's loyal, smart, fun, and friendly. Do you really want to be in her place?
Els Posted July 25, 2010 Posted July 25, 2010 I don't know about you guys, but it definitely wasn't a one-on-one date, there were THREE guys hanging out with her. To invite someone and not the person with her to a group hangout is just plain rude, IMO. If they'd had the tiniest bit of tact they'd do it differently.
Kamille Posted July 25, 2010 Posted July 25, 2010 (edited) I don't know about you guys, but it definitely wasn't a one-on-one date, there were THREE guys hanging out with her. To invite someone and not the person with her to a group hangout is just plain rude, IMO. If they'd had the tiniest bit of tact they'd do it differently. I completely disagree. He was trying to get the girl he fancied to his place, the guys were just decoys. They were likely going to make themselves scarce at one point or other. They were likely at the table encouraging their bud to go hit on the that girl. It had absolutely nothing to do with Shadow. And Shadow is an attractive woman. There is absolutely nothing wrong with her physically. Edited July 25, 2010 by Kamille
Els Posted July 25, 2010 Posted July 25, 2010 I agree that Shadow is attractive. However, she did say that no amount of telling her that was going to help, so I just adopted her perspective in giving her advice. As in, "EVEN if you think she's more attractive than you, etc".
Amour Posted July 25, 2010 Posted July 25, 2010 It's better you didn't go...I (being a sneaky bastard myself sometimes) know: They just wanna have sex with you and dump you on your *ss............ Once I approached these girls and AFTER 20 min of conversation with the girl I liked she yells: "Oh, my God! You're so CUUUUTE! Come here let me talk to you!" to my very hot friend! They hooked up later for sex. I felt like sh*t but I am still able to meet and get with girls... And you don't know if the aussies had some arrangement that you didn't hear...I don't want to be inconsiderate but there are some bad girls out there...the hookers are more than you can imagine...This is from a 35-year old man with tons of experience...You cannot believe the surprise when sometimes a girl I "pick up" mumbles "Are you gonna give me money?" Of course, she's out faster than a rocket.....Now I'm not saying that that's necessarily the case but ..IF THOSE GUYS WANTED TO HAVE FUN FOR REAL (READ SEX) THEY WOULD HAVE INVITED ANOTHER GIRL EVEN A NOT SO HOT ONE BECAUSE THEY WERE 3 GUYS! Every guy knows this (other than a moron)..
Amour Posted July 25, 2010 Posted July 25, 2010 God, I wish I was there...I'm sure this all some stupid innocent thing or so crappy guy thing THAT you shouldn't be over-obsessing about....God knows what they had in mind and god knows what the real story is that you didn't hear....The hooker situation above is also likely don't think otherwise I assure you...Those guys are visiting from Australia.....If they were looking for paid fun, maybe your colleague looked more like the type so they pitched her....
LoveLace Posted July 25, 2010 Posted July 25, 2010 Hope you are feelng better now Shadow I can relate hugely still being single in 30's (if you think you are down now, try that)...I also had a phase of thinking I was not really attractive at all...but now I've grown to see myself differently....that I AM attractive, and enough to get another attractive guy, however, there are PLENTY gals out there that have me beat by miles...that a guy would choose over me any day just based on looks alone. But I dont focus on that and instead just focus on the things that do make me attractive, whether it's certain body parts or certain parts of my personality....and I realize that guys know that everyone is flawed, including themselves...so I finally stopped thinking that all they want is a gorgeous beautiful model looking chick. And honesly since I've started thinking this way, I've been flirted with or hit on quite often lately. Maybe not by Dream guy, but I do feel like I suddenly have more options than I ever used to. Many years ago when I was in the best shape of my life and looking hotter than ever, I felt like no one wanted me. Now that I'm just in okay shape and more down to earth, I don't feel that way anymore. Back then, I really though looks was all that mattered in the world. You've done so many positive things and perhaps maybe your looks or attractiveness was all that was left for you to pick at so you found yourself not satisfied. Plan a girls night out, go shopping for somethin that you feel like makes you look smoking hot and wear that out. And approaching guys is sometimes the only way to get them to notice you in a crowd; it doesn't mean you have to ask him out or anything, just smile and maybe flirt. And if 1 guy isn't into it, your more likely to be noticed by another one if your flirting and smiling.
Amour Posted July 25, 2010 Posted July 25, 2010 I completely disagree. He was trying to get the girl he fancied to his place, the guys were just decoys. They were likely going to make themselves scarce at one point or other. They were likely at the table encouraging their bud to go hit on the that girl. It had absolutely nothing to do with Shadow. And Shadow is an attractive woman. There is absolutely nothing wrong with her physically. It's possible...Even though there has to be a reason for the other two not to want a piece of the action themselves. What comes to mind is maybe the guy hasn't been laid in a long time and the guys are trying to help him out. 3 guys is more secure for her than just one and they may just disappear you're right...I just don't know how their ego is gonna take it knowing that they are not getting it. They may have gotten laid on a previous day and now it's their third pal's turn. Just speculating from a male ego perspective...
Ruby Slippers Posted July 25, 2010 Posted July 25, 2010 I have not read this whole thread, but I'm wondering if a lot of this isn't because of your attitude. You seem like a thoughtful, intelligent person, but your attitude on the forum does come across to me as more negative than positive. You often seem sad and low on hope, rather than vivacious and hopeful. I do not mean to criticize when I say this -- I'm saying it in hopes it will be helpful to you. People are attracted to people who are happy, vibrant, and fulfilled. As I mature, I am figuring out that quality men approach me when I am feeling and looking happy and alive, not when I'm the most dressed up and made up. I think everything else is in place. You just need to get in touch with your inner joy and live with that as your guide.
bananaboat11 Posted July 25, 2010 Posted July 25, 2010 Shadowplay, I know not how you look, but perhaps the root / stem of your problem is that of my own? I apparently am very attractive, tall, fit, etc... but I have one trait that is chemical rather than physical, intellectual, or emotional that is my own issue... I suffer BDD or Body Dismorphic Disorder. It's a chemical imbalance that distorts my own visual perception of myself. I do not see myself the way others see me. And it sucks... it takes a real toll on my sense of self - self esteem - confidence... .... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_dysmorphic_disorder
LoveLace Posted July 25, 2010 Posted July 25, 2010 Shadowplay, I know not how you look, but perhaps the root / stem of your problem is that of my own? I apparently am very attractive, tall, fit, etc... but I have one trait that is chemical rather than physical, intellectual, or emotional that is my own issue... I suffer BDD or Body Dismorphic Disorder. It's a chemical imbalance that distorts my own visual perception of myself. I do not see myself the way others see me. And it sucks... it takes a real toll on my sense of self - self esteem - confidence... .... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_dysmorphic_disorder I can vouch for this because I had an eating disorder when I was younger and this is a classic symptom. What i saw in the mirror was 100% nothing like how i really looked. Also Shadow, ya know after losing someone you loved and loved you and sew on, self confidence is probably at it's lowest point for a while after, because your "alone" and trying to move on, nervous what the future might bring, etc. Call it finding yourself if you will. Anyway, I think as humans we give off the vibes when we are in a place like that, so we won't appear our most attractive, happy or approachable, what have you. When we are at a better place with ourselves after healing, other humans respond to that in ways we couldn't imagine before. I know this from personal experience. Any prob I"ve had with guys not approaching me or whatever, think it was all beause of a low point I was in at the time. Because now I don't look any different but my life is better and my attitude is 10 fold better, and I meet more guys nowadays than I have in years. Only trying to help but really, only you know what's going on inside you.
paddington bear Posted July 25, 2010 Posted July 25, 2010 Shadowplay, I don't this is about looks or becoming suddenly unattractive. I think you are just in one of those horrible spirals. I've been thinking recently about this: If nothing succeeds like success, then, logically, nothing fails like failure. So...the longer and the more you feel like you are a failure with men/dating, the worse the spiral gets. I'm beginning to think more and more that more often than not it is all the unconscious signals and body language that leaks out without us even knowing it. So, if you've not been doing too well dating, you feel like a failure, these feelings start to show in your demeanour and this lessons your chances. Well, at least this is what I've noticed about myself - I've just been through a very stressful year and was too feeling suicidal at times, and recently, finally, just when I thought the horrors would never end, things have improved (marginally). Two separate friends of mine both commented on how well I suddenly looked now that my main stress was gone (I just gave in notice to a job that was making me totally miserable). And today the grumpy guy in the local shop was all flirty with me when normally I get a glower and he tosses my purchases at me... So, this could be the case with you. The question is, how to make your life generally better, so that you feel happier and give out relaxed, happy, confident vibes. Rather than doing things to meet men, are there any steps you can do to simply make your life more fun, which will make you laugh and bring back your sparkle?
Star Gazer Posted July 25, 2010 Posted July 25, 2010 Shadow, you need to get some perspective. This guy was hitting on that girl because he found her attractive. It doesn't say anything about you. He didn't invite you probably because he wanted to make sure that girl knew he was into her. Why are you making this something about you? Did you see all their interactions and what led up to the invite? Maybe she simply asked them were they were from and made a joke he thought was cute. The bottom line is, why are you taking something that isn't about you at all so personally? Aren't people allowed to be attracted to other people anymore? I feel like I've been in that scenario before, of having guys hit on a friend or coworker without paying attention to me and it never would have crossed my mind to be offended. I probably was excited for her. It makes me wonder if you think a relationship will solve your loneliness, so you mistakenly think that feeling attractive will solve your loneliness. I understand you feel that being approached by men would make you feel included in social life, but what are you doing to let people into your life? Did you flirt and smile with those Aussies? Did you ask them questions about themselves? Or do you expect an invite to fall out of the sky, just out of reverence for sheer beauty? Your dysmorphia is making you mistake things that are relational as being superficially linked to physical beauty. Don't do this to yourself Shadow. Take the time to put things into perspective and continue to challenge yourself. right now, you need to make it about you and what you put out there, not about how people approach or react to you. Oh and ps: again, that wasn't a rejection. You haven't been rejected. Your coworker was hit on. Please tell me you understand this significant difference. Kamille is spot on, once again! Clearly, the problem isn't about physical appearance. It's relational. Interactional. It's about how you interact with people. I agree 100000%. I'm curious why no one picked up on this: At one point one of them asked me for a pen, so I had to go to the front of the store and retrieve it for him (which pissed me off since I was obviously very busy, it being a Saturday night). Shadow, you take pride in noticing the little details in others. I'm wondering why you don't notice them in yourself? Don't you think that in getting pissed off about being asked for a pen may have physically manifested itself in your facial expression, your body language, etc., such that they might have thought you wouldn't have wanted to go??
Author shadowplay Posted July 25, 2010 Author Posted July 25, 2010 Thanks for the responses, guys. This really isn't about a pity party. I've just been feeling really, really miserable the last week and it seems to only get worse and worse. I don't know what the f is going on, and htat's what I'm trying to figure out....hence this thread. I'm trying as hard as I can to keep myself together. I keep going to work and plugging away. I'm not trying to wallow in misery. It's just that every moment of the day is painful. And I can't wrap my head around why. I feel so much worse now that I'm trying than I did when I wasn't. Like I've really been having seriously suicidal thoughts. And this isn't directly related to the rejections, it's a string of fears they set off. I fear that I'll never experience being young and happy in the way that other people are...that's always been my worst fear. That I'll never hav a social network or date other people and experience youth, because my youth is running out and nothing is changing.
paddington bear Posted July 25, 2010 Posted July 25, 2010 Thanks for the responses, guys. This really isn't about a pity party. I've just been feeling really, really miserable the last week and it seems to only get worse and worse. I don't know what the f is going on, and htat's what I'm trying to figure out....hence this thread. I'm trying as hard as I can to keep myself together. I keep going to work and plugging away. I'm not trying to wallow in misery. It's just that every moment of the day is painful. And I can't wrap my head around why. I feel so much worse now that I'm trying than I did when I wasn't. Like I've really been having seriously suicidal thoughts. And this isn't directly related to the rejections, it's a string of fears they set off. I fear that I'll never experience being young and happy in the way that other people are...that's always been my worst fear. That I'll never hav a social network or date other people and experience youth, because my youth is running out and nothing is changing. Quite obviously you are simply in a deep depression...and I've been there, and the problem is you can maybe stave it off before you get into it, but once you are in there it's difficult (but not impossible) to crawl out of. I know from your previous posts that you moved to a different place. Perhaps there is a broader picture to the way you are feeling. Did you have higher expectations as to what positive changes this move would bring to your life and now realise that not much has changed except for location and that all your old problems have followed you there? What about your job? You work as a waitress, did you assume that you would maybe get hit on by guys due to the nature of your job and again feel like what 'should' happen does not? Mainly I've found when I have been in a deep depression it is because: I feel like I have no control over my own life, destiny and happiness. But as soon as I change something and I get some kind of positive result, no matter how small, I begin to feel better, like I'm clawing back that control and the depression and misery begins to ease. I would also add that when I've looked back over the last totally miserable year of my life, many of my problems were self-inflicted, I just didn't realise it at the time. All were because I ignored my gut instincts and felt I 'had to' do certain things. Like I 'had to' take on a job in a horrible firm due to financial circumstances and it made me totally miserable. But on the day of the interview, I knew in my gut that I just didn't want to work there but I forced myself to out of necessity, but the effect of this job on the rest of my life for over a year certainly did not outweigh the small financial benefits, it prevented me from achieving other things because I was so tired and miserable from it and affected every other aspect of my life. That is just one example. All I'm saying is to look at all aspects of your life now. The place you live in, your job, your pastimes, everything. If any of those things were done against some inner instinct, long-term this can start to make you feel trapped and out of control over your life because you've put a block on where your life should be going, and forced yourself to go in the wrong direction. Then you identify which thing/s are causing you to swim against the tide and change them as soon as possible and you will feel better. Maybe this doesn't apply to you, but it might. The key thing is to do something that will make you feel like your life isn't running away from you and that you can effect changes.
Kamille Posted July 26, 2010 Posted July 26, 2010 Thanks for the responses, guys. This really isn't about a pity party. I've just been feeling really, really miserable the last week and it seems to only get worse and worse. I don't know what the f is going on, and htat's what I'm trying to figure out....hence this thread. I'm trying as hard as I can to keep myself together. I keep going to work and plugging away. I'm not trying to wallow in misery. It's just that every moment of the day is painful. And I can't wrap my head around why. I feel so much worse now that I'm trying than I did when I wasn't. Like I've really been having seriously suicidal thoughts. And this isn't directly related to the rejections, it's a string of fears they set off. I fear that I'll never experience being young and happy in the way that other people are...that's always been my worst fear. That I'll never hav a social network or date other people and experience youth, because my youth is running out and nothing is changing. Just for now, allow yourself some rest - and yes, allow yourself to just live with the pain. Stop trying to figure out why every moment of every day is painful. I don’t understand what you’re going through right now. But I think that since you’re in pain, your reflex is to try and explain the pain. It’s quite logical really, but trying to figure out the roots of the pain, without guidance, can also be quite damaging. I feel like you're stuck in a bad thought cycle right now and that you just need to find a way to step away from it, if that makes sense. I'll try to be clearer: your attempts to try to explain your pain have led you to seek external explanations, as well as external validation. You somehow got it in your head that one possible explanation could be that you've lost your attractiveness. Instead of telling yourself you will do what you can to feel attractive again, you chose to look for outside validation of whether or not you were attractive. You reinterpreted your past to show that you aren't attractive, this, in spite of the fact that many men have found you beautiful. You got so caught up in this thought process that you reinterpreted a client flirting with a coworker to mean that you weren't attractive, when really all this wasn't a comment on you, but a comment on the fact that one guy found your coworker attractive. How about, allow yourself some time to rest. Just rest, just stop trying to figure it out. Allow yourself to just sit with the pain. Your explanations for your pain are only causing you more pain right now. As to the fears you mentioned... Where is that pressure coming from? Have you always automatically devalued yourself, your own life, your friends, your creative work? If so, I think you could benefit from trying to figure out why you tend to reinterpret events in your life to the negative. I think you put a lot of pressure on yourself and you expect a lot from yourself. I think you might have an idealized version of other people's lives. I wonder where that ideal image comes from, but more importantly, I wonder why you feel pressure to match up to it? Are you still seeing your therapist? does he or she know you're having suicidal thoughts? Do you have anyone IRL you can reach out to right now? Perhaps the friend you mentioned earlier or your parents?
spookie Posted July 26, 2010 Posted July 26, 2010 I hope you feel better soon SP. I hope you know that I love talking to you. I'm sure I'm not the only one. Hang in there, it will get better, I promise.
threebyfate Posted July 26, 2010 Posted July 26, 2010 If you want to view this situation as rejection, then we all get rejected at some time or another. The minute we walk out the door of our homes, there will be men who look and dismiss. That's okay since we too, reject on a level that is meaningless. Plse shadow, stop comparing and relax. Try not to be so hard on yourself. Someone finding us attractive or not, doesn't change who we are. Our outside shells are so fleeting and subjective to the whims of personal taste and even body language. *taps heart* What really, really matters is what's inside of you. Create a solid core and no amount of crap that anyone throws at you can move you. And no, this isn't a panacea to make you feel better. It's truth.
Lovelybird Posted July 26, 2010 Posted July 26, 2010 I don't know about you guys, but it definitely wasn't a one-on-one date, there were THREE guys hanging out with her. To invite someone and not the person with her to a group hangout is just plain rude, IMO. If they'd had the tiniest bit of tact they'd do it differently. Nothing is wrong with another girl being attractive. I don't think making another girl look like less is being helpful, just feed more fantacy into the bubble world view.
Author shadowplay Posted July 26, 2010 Author Posted July 26, 2010 If you want to view this situation as rejection, then we all get rejected at some time or another. The minute we walk out the door of our homes, there will be men who look and dismiss. That's okay since we too, reject on a level that is meaningless. Plse shadow, stop comparing and relax. Try not to be so hard on yourself. Someone finding us attractive or not, doesn't change who we are. Our outside shells are so fleeting and subjective to the whims of personal taste and even body language. *taps heart* What really, really matters is what's inside of you. Create a solid core and no amount of crap that anyone throws at you can move you. And no, this isn't a panacea to make you feel better. It's truth. Your comment struck a chord with me. I would do anything to not care about the external. It would free me up from so much anxiety and sadness. I just don't know how to get there.
Untouchable_Fire Posted July 26, 2010 Posted July 26, 2010 Your comment struck a chord with me. I would do anything to not care about the external. It would free me up from so much anxiety and sadness. I just don't know how to get there. Where does your self esteem come from? What creates it?
Star Gazer Posted July 26, 2010 Posted July 26, 2010 Your comment struck a chord with me. I would do anything to not care about the external. It would free me up from so much anxiety and sadness. I just don't know how to get there. You realize that you're not focused on the external yourself, right? That you look for depth in others? I do too. As does TBF. And Spookie. And... MOST people. Nearly everyone you meet - other than talent/modeling agents, that is! - is looking at who you are as a person, Shadow.
Author shadowplay Posted July 26, 2010 Author Posted July 26, 2010 True, but when people point out physical flaws to you and it makes you feel repulsive and unattractive and the rejection Shadow experiences enforces those feelings..it kills the person inside.. Eventually yo uturn into a hermit and hide from the world...longing over the person that is you and what could of been if only you felt that you were a little attractive and that nothing is wrong with you. For me it's to late... I'm in the worst part of having these feelings....you'd never know the hellish things I think about now, because..I don't care anymore. I hope(and I really think she will) be stronger and wiser than me and pull out of this thing. People don't know how much it sucks..... It's not just a phase..it turns into a lifestyle that eats at you every day. I totally understand how you feel, and I agree that most people don't understand the severity of BDD, unless they've read a lot about it or known somebody who has it. Take this from the wiki article: Phillips & Menard (2006) found the completed-suicide rate in patients with BDD to be 45 times higher than that of the general United States population. This rate is more than double that of those with clinical depression and three times as high as that of those with bipolar disorder.[11] Suicidal ideation is also found in around 80% of people with BDD. I'm having a bit of a relapse recently, but I'm not in the place I once was when I was a lot younger. Thank god.
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