Question about lies in a relationship

[crawlthruknives]

First of all, hi! This is my first post here. It's also going to be a bit long, so I apologize. It does have to do with dating though, just get through the background info first

 

Okay, in late 2008, my ex-wife and I broke up. We had been together for 14 years, 7 married, between the ages of 19-33. When she left, she swore there was no one else, she was just tired and wanted to try new things. Both of us having missed out on our entire 20's, I understood, and relatively quickly, I accepted it. She left me the house and more than half of it's contents, as well as the pets. (she ended up taking the dog later on). After about 6 weeks of general confusion etc. on my part, I sucked it all up, and moved on. I had a friendly relationship with my ex, and she would occasionally come over and visit the pets.

 

By this time, I had been seeing someone. In reality, I had been seeing the girl I had dated for 3 years before I met my ex-wife, way back in high school. We were each other's first girlfriend/boyfriend. So we had a history together. It just happened, and it felt right. We're still together, a year and a half later, and it's working much much better than my marriage did, I have to say.

 

My issue started when my ex-wife came to me about 5 months after we separated and told me that she is moving out of the country, to Europe, to be with her boyfriend. This was the first I had heard of a boyfriend over all this time. She knew all about my girlfriend, including who she was, etc., and seemed quite fine with it all.

 

My first reaction was "that was fast" - to be not only moving in with someone, but in a different country. She had very little reaction to that, and that aspect of the conversation was dropped.

 

The very next day, after having digested that information, the wheels started turning. I put two and two together over the next few months, and through various bits of information, including from her sister, whom I'm still in contact with, some mutual friends, and just plain logic, I "discovered" that she did, in fact, leave me for somebody else. I did a bit more digging than I'm proud of, and was able to prove without a doubt my suspicions. Even though it all technically didn't matter anymore - I had moved on and was dating somebody else quite happily - it still was a tremendous blow to my ego. Knowing that all along, and even before, there was somebody else, and that she never let on about him. The sneaking around while we were married (as far as I know only limited to internet chat, e-mail and phone calls), and the insistance that she was leaving me for other reasons all hurt just as much as the exact moment she told me she was leaving.

 

From that point on, I could not look at her or talk to her. I went from being very content and happy with where my life went, and thinking that even though we broke up, it was for the best, and that we both always maintained our honesty with each other. She had always adamantly maintained that she could never, and would never, lie to me. The odd time she had in the past, she always came clean very quickly as the guilt would overcome her.

 

I now know that was delusional on my part, and god knows how many times, or what she had lied about. I always prided myself on being a good husband. I never lied, cheated, or was abusive in any way. I pulled my weight with everything, and I always made sure to make her feel loved. I always talked to her, and more importantly, I always listened, usually without saying a word.

 

Had I not made the effort with her over the years, or not done any of the above, I may not have taken her lies and ultimate betrayal so personally.

 

That brings me to my question (thanks if you've made it this far!)

 

My current girlfriend - again, we dated for 3 years in high school - and I have a great relationship. We are pretty much opposites in almost every way, which we have both discovered works. My ex and her exes all seemed to be the other-sex version of ourselves.

 

SO, I started my relationship with her the same way I did with my ex-wife, trusting her implicitly. Not right from the get-go of course, it had to be earned. Once I was comfortable with her and told her I loved her, I fell into that "trap" of trust, no matter what.

 

So when all this stuff came out about my ex, it made me paranoid. I asked my girlfriend about her past, and what happened with her exes (how the relationships ended, etc.). We both talked fairly openly about out pasts, though mine really only involved a small # of experiences since she and I last saw each other. Hers, on the other hand, involved all the usual stuff you would expect from a single 20-something. More partners than I am comfortable with, but what are you going to do?

 

Somehow, this conversation, which took place last year, included me asking her if she had ever dated someone from a different ethnicity. In retrospect, I have no idea how or why that came up, because it doesn't matter one lick to me. In any case, she said she had "never been with a black guy, no". I jokingly asked her if she was racist, because I realized where this conversation went and I felt sort of bad that I would have even thought that was an appropriate question.

 

Flash forward to a couple of days ago. This particular topic of the past came up again, but this time by her. She let it slip that she had in fact "been with a black guy" once, on a one-night stand. This whole conversation we had a year ago, which I had long forgotten, suddenly popped into my head, and I told her she told me back then that she never had. I asked her why she lied to me about, of all things, THAT. She replied that she thought that when it came up last year, that I would be upset if she said she had. I told her how ridiculous that was, and that was that.

 

So now I'm upset that she lied to me. Not about what, but just that she lied. The initial paranoia I had about her, caused by my ex-wife's lies coming out, which had long since subsided, are now back in full force. Probably worse.

 

I now find myself thinking that she lied to me about other things in her past. She's already told me she's not proud of it. (I have told her that the past is the past, and that it's of little consequence to me.) The reasons, beyond my paranoia, for asking her questions like these, were sound. When we first slept together, she said that she had not been with anyone for close to a year, since her and her ex of 3+ years broke up. I asked her about that then, because, in all honesty, I wanted to be sure that I would not catch an STD or anything, as stupid as that sounds. You believe what you want to believe when you're in the moment, right?

 

So now I find myself wondering if she told the truth about that. There are other things, also of no real consequence, that I'm starting to doubt now, too. I KNOW they don't really matter, the answers. What does matter is if she lied to me.

 

I know full well that people lie about their pasts, especially when entering a new relationship. It is justified sometimes, particularly when you are not exactly proud of it.

 

So after all that, my question is: should I confront her (gently) and ask her about the things that I have doubts about? Again, it's not the answers that I'm after (and probably don't want to know). It's the truth I want. I WANT to know if she lied about anything else.

 

And the second part is: does it really matter if she lied to me about those things? I feel that if she did, then it could be an indicator that I may not always get the truth going forward, and I'm scared of that.

 

Like I said, it was the lying that REALLY hurt me about my ex-wife, not the break up itself. I have a major aversion to lying, especially now.

 

We have an otherwise very good relationship, but I have my doubts about it's health, simply because of this. I have a history of being a reliable partner - 3 years with one woman, 14 with another, and now a year and a half this time around (with a few month-long or less relationships thrown in). My girlfriend has had three 3+ year long relationships, a dozen or so of several months or less, and a higher-than-I'd-like number of one nighters. In all cases, she says, she has never been broken up with - it's always been her.

 

Do I take all of this as an indication that she's just not "settle-down" material, or do I try to see that she's changed. The past history notwithstanding, the lies/lying really could put me over the edge.

 

Thanks, and sorry this was so long!

Edited July 20, 2010 by crawlthruknives

[Untouchable_Fire]

Do I take all of this as an indication that she's just not "settle-down" material, or do I try to see that she's changed. The past history notwithstanding, the lies/lying really could put me over the edge.

Thanks, and sorry this was so long!

 

First... it's creepy that she has a bunch of one night stands. Women who separate emotions and sex are very crazy. I would not trust her for that one reason alone.

 

Second, you need to make sure she understands that honesty is your #1. It sounds like your not the judgmental type... so she has no reason to lie. If she continues to lie that is a clear volition of your boundaries. Dump her.

 

All in all... it sounds like you two are happy together. Just don't marry her. Got it?

[crawlthruknives]

First... it's creepy that she has a bunch of one night stands. Women who separate emotions and sex are very crazy. I would not trust her for that one reason alone.

 

haha! I have to disagree with that statement. Although I am not the type to have one nighters, I certainly don't think there's anything wrong with it. Separating sex and emotions (for men OR women) while in their 20's is natural. If you're still doing this type of thing into your 30's and/or beyond, that's when I start agreeing with you. But when you're younger, it's perfectly okay, in my books, to experiment like that. It's the only way to gain experience, at least sexually.

 

Regardless, my (long winded) question was more about the lie I caught her with, and the potential that there could be others. I could care less about somebody's past history. Unless you're a serial dater, an ex-prostitute, a porn-star, etc. then the number of people you've been with shouldn't have much bearing on who they are now. It's the circumstances in which they were in them that do count for something, and can be a good indicator of what you are likely to do in a relationship in the future. To me, a one night stand is not a relationship. It's sex, and it's fun. Yes, it's risky, yes it can be stupid, but we all have needs, too. Some of us are more free to pursue these needs, rather than not.

 

Given the choice, would you rather be with someone who has been married 3 or more times, or who has had 3 or 4 one nighters? Which is the more glaring red flag as to how your relationship might go?

 

I can totally understand why some people see it in a negative way, though, don't worry. But there are a lot of us out here who don't see it that way, even those of us who don't, or wouldn't, have one night stands for various reasons

Edited July 21, 2010 by crawlthruknives

[ReadyforLove]

I'm sorry but I think it's funny that she lied about being with a black man lol. But anyway, I really don't think you had the right to ask her that question to begin with. The past is the past, it should not dictate the way you feel about her today.

 

I say, focus on today. Don't worry about what happened in your past relationships or her past relationships. You are paranoid because your ex lied to you about her bf on the side but your new girlfriend is NOT your ex. Give her a chance to prove herself.

[Untouchable_Fire]

Given the choice, would you rather be with someone who has been married 3 or more times, or who has had 3 or 4 one nighters? Which is the more glaring red flag as to how your relationship might go?

I can totally understand why some people see it in a negative way, though, don't worry. But there are a lot of us out here who don't see it that way, even those of us who don't, or wouldn't, have one night stands for various reasons

 

My first marriage was to a woman who had been with a high number of men, many were one nighters. At the time I figured... hey she just likes sex... yeah for me. After I married her I realized it was because she was just a complete nutjob.

 

Anyway... the point of this thread is that I think you should communicate to her that she should fear lieing to you more than telling you whatever the truth may be. How you accomplish that is up to you. Personally, I would not put up with that type of behavior.

[that girl]

Somehow, this conversation, which took place last year, included me asking her if she had ever dated someone from a different ethnicity. In retrospect, I have no idea how or why that came up, because it doesn't matter one lick to me.

Really it doesn't matter? Because the fact that you asked the question in terms of past sexual experience rather than say meeting a multi-ethnic couple and comparing experiences suggests you do care.

 

In any case, she said she had "never been with a black guy, no". I jokingly asked her if she was racist, because I realized where this conversation went and I felt sort of bad that I would have even thought that was an appropriate question.

This isn't the healthiest way to handle "wow, I think that might have come across wrong.

 

Flash forward to a couple of days ago. This particular topic of the past came up again, but this time by her. She let it slip that she had in fact "been with a black guy" once, on a one-night stand.

How many guys has she slept with? Because honestly, if the number is super high it is quite possible she just forgot.

 

This whole conversation we had a year ago, which I had long forgotten, suddenly popped into my head, and I told her she told me back then that she never had. I asked her why she lied to me about, of all things, THAT. She replied that she thought that when it came up last year, that I would be upset if she said she had. I told her how ridiculous that was, and that was that.

I'm not cool with the lying, but what you're describing here still sounds like you care.

 

should I confront her (gently) and ask her about the things that I have doubts about? Again, it's not the answers that I'm after (and probably don't want to know). It's the truth I want. I WANT to know if she lied about anything else.

I could care less about somebody's past history.

These two things are in direct contrast to each other. You can't claim that you don't care about someone's past and then demand a complete account of their past.

 

I really think therapy might be a good idea for you because what you are describing sounds like looking for inconsistencies. And frankly, if she's had a very active sex life, I wouldn't be super surprised if she innocently forgot some things. The lie about being with a black guy does seem iffy, but it also sounds like you are backing her into corners and when backed into a corner people are often dishonest.

[crawlthruknives]

Really it doesn't matter? Because the fact that you asked the question in terms of past sexual experience rather than say meeting a multi-ethnic couple and comparing experiences suggests you do care.

 

 

This isn't the healthiest way to handle "wow, I think that might have come across wrong.

 

Yes, you're right about that to a point. It really *doesn't* matter, at all. I'm much much smarter than that. But I think there's a stigma attached to it, unfortunately, and I seem to have gotten caught up with it in that particular moment. For whatever reason, rightly or wrongly, having a quick fling with someone of a different ethnicity seems to scream "experimentation" or "doing it just to say I did it". I think that's more where I was coming from. Had she dated a person of a different ethnicity, rather than just slept with him, different story, again - rightly or wrongly. In my own experiences, I have never been with, say, a black woman. Would I like to? Absolutely, yes. Why? Because I haven't. Because it's "different". Is that the wrong reason? Yes, probably. Mind you, if I ever had the opportunity to date a woman that is not caucasian like me, I would, but only if there was a chemistry. I think, in the end, I was digging a little bit to see if she had done something like this to give me more insight into her mindset. Given the fact that she lied about it showed me that this was something she may have done to "just do it", and that somehow the end result (possibly because of the race difference) was something that she thought had a stigma attached to it too, thus she felt she had to lie about it.

 

 

These two things are in direct contrast to each other. You can't claim that you don't care about someone's past and then demand a complete account of their past.

 

I really think therapy might be a good idea for you because what you are describing sounds like looking for inconsistencies. And frankly, if she's had a very active sex life, I wouldn't be super surprised if she innocently forgot some things. The lie about being with a black guy does seem iffy, but it also sounds like you are backing her into corners and when backed into a corner people are often dishonest.

 

I didn't demand a complete account of her past. But you are correct that I backed her into a corner. I have admitted that to her, and apologized. I gave her my justifications for it, and she has accepted them. I never had an issue with lying or doubt in a relationship, therefore I got my own back up, and reacted without thinking. Second, given that many things about my ex-wife came out only after we broke up, I wanted to protect myself in my current relationship. I chose a rather blunt way of doing it. My thought was that if I knew a bit about her past, that could give me a decent idea of what to expect. I should have known better. People are not always the result of their past.

 

For the record, I do not feel that her past is in any way out of the ordinary, or anything to really worry about. If you do the math, she has averaged 1 partner over the course of the last almost 20 years. That's really not all that bad, I don't think.

 

Would I, or anyone else, prefer their partners had fewer than 10 in their lifetimes? Yes, of course. Especially men. Not many men desire a girlfriend or wife who has had 20+ partners before them.

 

What made it difficult for me, is that we were each other's firsts. In the 14-15 years we had been apart, I had 2 partners. She had close to 20. Is it insecurity? Perhaps. The numbers don't matter to me. It's the circumstances that do. Why was she not able to settle down? What went wrong in her relationships? Given that she's in her early 30's and has never been broken up with (it's always been her doing the breaking up), why did she constantly choose partners that didn't work out?

 

These are scary questions for someone like me, a serial monogamist, to know the answers to.

[that girl]

You are judging her, which isn't necessarily wrong but does mean you shouldn't be dating her.

 

Again, I suggest therapy.

[crawlthruknives]

You are judging her, which isn't necessarily wrong but does mean you shouldn't be dating her.

 

?????

 

Wow. Not the advice I expected, that's for certain. You sure you should be on here doing this sort of thing?

 

My GF and I are good. I have issues (baggage) with lying, which weren't there before. I caught her in one stupid lie (which, even to me, has been justified), and I've overreacted. My problem, which I came here to discuss, is that I need to find a way to overcome my IRRATIONAL fears DUE TO MY EX-WIFE.

 

Therapy is a good avenue, I'll give you that.

 

To tell me I shouldn't be dating her? That's out there. It's actually pretty rude, to be honest.

 

Dare I ask... are you suggesting I don't date her because *I'm* the nutjob, or you think she is? (or perhaps both!)

[that girl]

Wow. Not the advice I expected, that's for certain. You sure you should be on here doing this sort of thing?

 

My GF and I are good. I have issues (baggage) with lying, which weren't there before. I caught her in one stupid lie (which, even to me, has been justified), and I've overreacted. My problem, which I came here to discuss, is that I need to find a way to overcome my IRRATIONAL fears DUE TO MY EX-WIFE.

 

You're not fighting over who does the dishes, you're talking out your issues with your ex wife on her and regularly playing inquistor with her sex life. You don't trust her and you're not being fair to her.

 

I think you need to take a step back and see a therapist because this just looks to be headed towards disaster. You didn't just split up with your wife, that happened in 2008. You're not healing, you're taking things out on your current partner.