New Again Posted November 28, 2009 Posted November 28, 2009 No, we're not engaged (...yet). But we have had a few tentative discussions about some things engaged/married people would need to consider and talk about, such as finances. As the title of the thread says, my bf doesn't even have a will, hasn't even thought about it - but said that he would want me to sign a prenup. (My reaction to that is pretty typical: I think it's smart of him, however I also am turned off by what that implies - that he doesn't think our marriage would last, and/or that I would try to rob him blind in the event of our divorce.) My bf's salary is twice what mine is, and he also owns several assets that will eventually earn him extra income. Being married to someone earning money would cause those assets to begin earning extra income sooner than if he remained single, if that makes sense - I'm trying to not give too many specific details. He also wants to have kids, and he wants his wife to be a stay-at-home-mom. Ideally, that is what I would want also. I would love to work, and would probably work part-time or get a teaching job once the kids were all school age; however that wouldn't leave me in a very strong or stable position financially in the event of a divorce. In fact, in this scenario, I would feel pretty well f*cked over. I'm sure this topic has been done to death, and I'll certainly be looking for other threads on this topic. But I'm curious what other people's takes on this is, I really would like to try to understand other points of view and perspectives. Also, has anyone dated someone, fallen in love, great relationship,etc., and gotten to the point where you're talking about marriage - and then realized that you're not compatible? Did you break up at that point?
Lizzie60 Posted November 28, 2009 Posted November 28, 2009 If I ever even get to the point of 'living common-law' with someone.. then yes.. he would have to sign some kind of papers that he would NOT be entitled to anything I already own.. and we would have some kind of 'arrangements'... I honestly don't blame him.. I think it should be a 'law' to have prenup... no exceptions..
Ody Posted November 28, 2009 Posted November 28, 2009 I wouldn't worry about the will thing. A lot of youngish people just don't care what happens if they die. If my next of kin wasn't absolute scum, and I wasn't worried about what happens to my cats if I get hit by a truck, I might not have one either. Few people of getting marriage age have dealt much with estate, elder care, etc - all those types of considerations that wills are a part of. I am probably the only person I know in my late twenties who has one. Laws vary so much from state to state that you should probably consult a lawyer to see what your situation would be if you sign it and end up divorced. If he's asking for you to sign one, he should likewise have no problem with you getting some legal advice on it. I would also try not to get caught up on "what that implies". To me, refusing to sign one would imply similar things (worried it might not last, worried that someone would leave you pennyless) that asking to sign one implies. Both asking and signing are moot points if things work out great, and if they don't... best to be smart about it. Good luck.
jerseyboy Posted November 28, 2009 Posted November 28, 2009 Its something you deifinitely think about. In the end I dont think I could do it though. Even as a guy it seems not human in a way.
Author New Again Posted November 28, 2009 Author Posted November 28, 2009 (edited) If I ever even get to the point of 'living common-law' with someone.. then yes.. he would have to sign some kind of papers that he would NOT be entitled to anything I already own.. and we would have some kind of 'arrangements'... I honestly don't blame him.. I think it should be a 'law' to have prenup... no exceptions.. Well I don't "blame him" either. Like I said, I think it's smart. Nor would I feel entitled to property he owned prior to our marriage...but there is an exception. Let's say he owns (in reality the bank owns) several properties - that are rental properties or commercial properties, whatever, but they are potentially income-earning properties, either as rental properties, a small business, etc. They all have mortgages. Let's say we get married and live off of his income, and use my entire income to pay off those properties. Am I still entitled to nothing? Or maybe I don't pay off those mortgages, but the fact that I'm paying a bulk of our living expenses frees up more of his income to pay off those mortgages faster... Then, with a pre-nup, I end up homeless and with nothing and no assets, and he's even better off than he was before we married. Maybe I just don't understand pre-nups. I would also try not to get caught up on "what that implies". To me, refusing to sign one would imply similar things (worried it might not last, worried that someone would leave you pennyless) that asking to sign one implies. Both asking and signing are moot points if things work out great, and if they don't... best to be smart about it. Good luck. This is an excellent point that hadn't occurred to me. Edited November 28, 2009 by New Again
Pizzaman81 Posted November 28, 2009 Posted November 28, 2009 No, we're not engaged (...yet). But we have had a few tentative discussions about some things engaged/married people would need to consider and talk about, such as finances. As the title of the thread says, my bf doesn't even have a will, hasn't even thought about it - but said that he would want me to sign a prenup. (My reaction to that is pretty typical: I think it's smart of him, however I also am turned off by what that implies - that he doesn't think our marriage would last, and/or that I would try to rob him blind in the event of our divorce.) My bf's salary is twice what mine is, and he also owns several assets that will eventually earn him extra income. Being married to someone earning money would cause those assets to begin earning extra income sooner than if he remained single, if that makes sense - I'm trying to not give too many specific details. He also wants to have kids, and he wants his wife to be a stay-at-home-mom. Ideally, that is what I would want also. I would love to work, and would probably work part-time or get a teaching job once the kids were all school age; however that wouldn't leave me in a very strong or stable position financially in the event of a divorce. In fact, in this scenario, I would feel pretty well f*cked over. I'm sure this topic has been done to death, and I'll certainly be looking for other threads on this topic. But I'm curious what other people's takes on this is, I really would like to try to understand other points of view and perspectives. Also, has anyone dated someone, fallen in love, great relationship,etc., and gotten to the point where you're talking about marriage - and then realized that you're not compatible? Did you break up at that point? It is not his intention to not make the marriage last forever. Everyone wants to... but there are always things beyond our vision of the future that we can predict which may occur. A man will go broke and homeless if he gets divorced like twice... he will be without a home. Divorce law is extremely cruel to both parties and protecting the assets is the smartest thing a person can do.
Author New Again Posted November 28, 2009 Author Posted November 28, 2009 Tried to edit my last post again: This would be desirable for both of us and our family, without a prenup and without a divorce. We and our family would be much better off that way. However, with a pre-nup, I end up homeless and with nothing and no assets, and he's even better off than he was before we married. In which case it would be better to keep our finances 100% separate - he pays for his stuff, I pay for my stuff and maybe pitch in "rent" or something. Which would not be the best and smartest thing to do for us as a family.
Author New Again Posted November 28, 2009 Author Posted November 28, 2009 Tried to edit my last post again: Let's say he owns (in reality the bank owns) several properties - that are rental properties or commercial properties, whatever, but they are potentially income-earning properties, either as rental properties, a small business, etc. They all have mortgages. Let's say we get married and live off of his income, and use my entire income to pay off those properties. Am I still entitled to nothing? Or maybe I don't pay off those mortgages, but the fact that I'm paying a bulk of our living expenses frees up more of his income to pay off those mortgages faster... This would be desirable for both of us and our family, without a prenup and without a divorce. We and our family would be much better off that way. However, with a pre-nup, I end up homeless and with nothing and no assets, and he's even better off than he was before we married. In which case it would be better to keep our finances 100% separate - he pays for his stuff, I pay for my stuff and maybe pitch in "rent" or something. Which would not be the best and smartest thing to do for us as a family. Then, with a pre-nup, I end up homeless and with nothing and no assets, and he's even better off than he was before we married. Maybe I just don't understand pre-nups.
Vertex Posted November 28, 2009 Posted November 28, 2009 Prenups are purely protection. As any insurance class will teach you, it's wise to insure against high-damage low-probability events, and so even if your relationship is strong, it's worth protecting yourself. Divorce can be messy. Prenups keep things pretty simple, really. Imagine the turmoil that would ensue without one.
Author New Again Posted November 28, 2009 Author Posted November 28, 2009 So, so far the consensus is to go with a prenup and keep our finances completely separate in order to protect ourselves as individuals, despite this being the worse thing to do for us as a family?
sally4sara Posted November 29, 2009 Posted November 29, 2009 I would worry about it more when you are actually planning to get married rather than just talking abstractly about the future. And if he has a prenupt, you can still have one too. If you don't like what his has in it; don't sign it. See, long before my SO and I started talking about getting married for real, he was ADAMANT about prenupts. I was adamant about some of the things I would agree to and some of the things I was not ever going to agree to. The wedding is just over a month away and neither of us have drawn up any prenupt agreements.............surprise surprise. If you are sure enough to get married, you should also be sure of who they are and what they are capable of doing at their worst.
Author New Again Posted November 29, 2009 Author Posted November 29, 2009 I would worry about it more when you are actually planning to get married rather than just talking abstractly about the future. And if he has a prenupt, you can still have one too. If you don't like what his has in it; don't sign it. See, long before my SO and I started talking about getting married for real, he was ADAMANT about prenupts. I was adamant about some of the things I would agree to and some of the things I was not ever going to agree to. The wedding is just over a month away and neither of us have drawn up any prenupt agreements.............surprise surprise. If you are sure enough to get married, you should also be sure of who they are and what they are capable of doing at their worst. That's fundamentally how I feel too. You're right that I shouldn't worry about it yet; I just don't want to get to that point and then realize that it's not going to work because we can't agree on what should be in a prenup - that's so lame.
Vertex Posted November 29, 2009 Posted November 29, 2009 Honestly though, if you guys have huge problems over a prenup, then at least you find out sooner rather than later that you guys will likely have financial disagreements in the future.
Lizzie60 Posted November 29, 2009 Posted November 29, 2009 Well I don't "blame him" either. Like I said, I think it's smart. Nor would I feel entitled to property he owned prior to our marriage...but there is an exception. Let's say he owns (in reality the bank owns) several properties - that are rental properties or commercial properties, whatever, but they are potentially income-earning properties, either as rental properties, a small business, etc. They all have mortgages. Let's say we get married and live off of his income, and use my entire income to pay off those properties. Am I still entitled to nothing? Or maybe I don't pay off those mortgages, but the fact that I'm paying a bulk of our living expenses frees up more of his income to pay off those mortgages faster... Then, with a pre-nup, I end up homeless and with nothing and no assets, and he's even better off than he was before we married. Maybe I just don't understand pre-nups. This is an excellent point that hadn't occurred to me. That's what exactly a pre-nup would do.. protect you just as much as it protects him... have a lawyer write one to protect you as well..
Lizzie60 Posted November 29, 2009 Posted November 29, 2009 My best advice on pre-nups.. get married with the assumption that it will inevitably end up in divorce.. this is the reality... protect yourself.. When the 2 people are head over heels in love,.. it's hard to talk about divorce.. but when divorce comes.. it can get very nasty..
BobSacamento Posted November 29, 2009 Posted November 29, 2009 He wants a stay at home wife. So basically she would be making no income. Therefore if she wants to split, what does she do? She's trapped. She would have no money and I'm assuming no house.
Author New Again Posted November 29, 2009 Author Posted November 29, 2009 He wants a stay at home wife. So basically she would be making no income. Therefore if she wants to split, what does she do? She's trapped. She would have no money and I'm assuming no house. Right on both counts. However, what if he wanted the divorce? She (me) is screwed.
Pink Cupcakes Posted November 29, 2009 Posted November 29, 2009 (edited) Have a pre-nup which guarantees you a huge wad of money he has earned if you do quit your job at his wishes, as well as 50% of his retirement for the time that you weren't working. Also if he buys anything, the prenup should state it is half yours, too, such as big purchases such as cars, property, etc. He is telling you he wants you to raise a family and not work and support the family in this way, but doesn't believe you should get squat should you divorce. If you do quit and stay home to raise the kids, then your contribution to the marriage is just as much as his. And make sure you get a huge wad for child support each month, also, don't let him screw you in this agreement. Make sure you see a lawyer who understands you won't be screwed. Edited November 29, 2009 by Pink Cupcakes
jerseyboy Posted November 29, 2009 Posted November 29, 2009 Listen Unless the guy is genuinely wealthy I would not sign a pre nup as a girl And Im a guy Bare minimum, and it isnt thta much nowadays, it would have to be a couple of million. Even that seems low
Pink Cupcakes Posted November 29, 2009 Posted November 29, 2009 I agree with Jerseyboy. The prenup should only protect assets he already owns, not assets you earn together as a couple supporting the marriage.
calizaggy Posted November 29, 2009 Posted November 29, 2009 I do not understand.. I am assuming a pre nup would say that in the case of divorce, what he came into the marriage with would remain his.. Now if you are a stay at home mom and then are divorced, wouldn't you be entitled to child support and alimony?? Let's say you continue working and are not a stay at home mom.. Will you be stashing all of your income away incase of a divorce? I do not see what being a stay at home mom has to do with it. Wouldn't your working income be covering your food, car, insurance, clothes, eating out, vacation etc?
Author New Again Posted November 29, 2009 Author Posted November 29, 2009 I do not understand.. I am assuming a pre nup would say that in the case of divorce, what he came into the marriage with would remain his.. Now if you are a stay at home mom and then are divorced, wouldn't you be entitled to child support and alimony?? Let's say you continue working and are not a stay at home mom.. Will you be stashing all of your income away incase of a divorce? I do not see what being a stay at home mom has to do with it. Wouldn't your working income be covering your food, car, insurance, clothes, eating out, vacation etc? Women who are stay at home moms generally get totally screwed in the event of a divorce. For example, when the judge is determining alimony, he will determine what the mother should be making once she returns to the work force - but these numbers are notoriously inaccurate, because the judge doesn't take into consideration how long it will take a mother who hasn't been working to get a job; the fact that she hasn't been working for however many years means she wasn't earning raises and pay increases, so the judge's numbers will be inflated and she will be earning less AND not receiving enough alimony. That's kind of a worst case scenario. But being a stay at home mom has a lot to do with it. The years that one is a stay at home money and not earning a paycheck is also several years of not having one's own savings, etc. A stay at home mom is entirely reliant, financially, on her husband.
CLC2008 Posted November 29, 2009 Posted November 29, 2009 No, we're not engaged (...yet). But we have had a few tentative discussions about some things engaged/married people would need to consider and talk about, such as finances. As the title of the thread says, my bf doesn't even have a will, hasn't even thought about it - but said that he would want me to sign a prenup. (My reaction to that is pretty typical: I think it's smart of him, however I also am turned off by what that implies - that he doesn't think our marriage would last, and/or that I would try to rob him blind in the event of our divorce.) My bf's salary is twice what mine is, and he also owns several assets that will eventually earn him extra income. Being married to someone earning money would cause those assets to begin earning extra income sooner than if he remained single, if that makes sense - I'm trying to not give too many specific details. He also wants to have kids, and he wants his wife to be a stay-at-home-mom. Ideally, that is what I would want also. I would love to work, and would probably work part-time or get a teaching job once the kids were all school age; however that wouldn't leave me in a very strong or stable position financially in the event of a divorce. In fact, in this scenario, I would feel pretty well f*cked over. I'm sure this topic has been done to death, and I'll certainly be looking for other threads on this topic. But I'm curious what other people's takes on this is, I really would like to try to understand other points of view and perspectives. Also, has anyone dated someone, fallen in love, great relationship,etc., and gotten to the point where you're talking about marriage - and then realized that you're not compatible? Did you break up at that point? If you are to be a stay-at-home wife/mother, that means you will not be able to bring in income yourself, and will be relying upon him solely financially. Compound that with a pre-nup, no will, etc., how on earth do you think you would be able to manage financially should the need arise somewhere down the road?
Johnny M Posted November 29, 2009 Posted November 29, 2009 Maybe I just don't understand pre-nups That's pretty much spot on. I suggest you discuss your situation with a family lawyer. I also don't understand how you plan to be a stay at home mom and use the bulk of your income to pay off his mortgages. That's a contraction in terms, as being a stay at home mom implies having no income.
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