No results in online dating :(

[JellyTot]

The men who have what you're looking for are not attracted to you because you don't have what they are looking for.

Great, so what do I do now? The men I'm attracted to aren't attracted to me, and obviously there's no point in dating men I'm not attracted to, so I guess I'm screwed I'm not sure why the men I'm attracted to aren't attracted to me though - you'd think the cute, intellectual, bookish type of guy would be attracted to a girl who was pretty much the same.

 

you probably feel a high sense of entitlement due to your great profile and all which you have to offer, right? But not one man in 25 emails and 84 winks was worthy. Makes me go hmmmmm...

I don't feel a sense of entitlement, except maybe a sense of entitlement to date someone who understands me as a person, rather than someone who is just handsome/successful/wealthy/nice. There were some very nice men who emailed me - handsome, good career, everything going for them - but I wasn't attracted to them because they were such different types of people to me and we apparently had nothing in common. I never said they weren't good enough, I just said they weren't my type. If I had a sense of entitlement I'd be looking for a "catch", a rich, successful, handsome guy - when in fact all I'm looking for is an ok looking guy who would understand me and be compatible with me.

 

Guys, this just goes to show your chances of getting any response from a lady who has a PhD unless you also have one.

I think women more than men don't want to "date down". It has a lot to do with traditional gender roles - a man often likes to feel more powerful in a relationship, so he will happily date a woman who isn't quite on the same level intellectually or financially. A woman, on the other hand, wants to feel like she's in the traditional female role; she doesn't want to feel like she's more of a man than the man himself is, she wants to feel like he can take care of her. If a man doesn't quite match up to me, I always think "I'm smarter/richer/faster than you, I'm obviously filling the male role in this relationship, so what do I need you for?" and it just turns me off because the man seems emasculated. I'm not saying that every guy I date has to have a PhD, but he has to be my equal in some respect, e.g. equally well educated, or less educated but more wealthy/ambitious/strong.

 

 

Good. You got a taste of your own medicine. Hope you like it. Maybe you should get off your high horse and give some consideration to the guys who are already responding to you.

The guys who are already responding to me aren't my type. I'm not on a "high horse" at all, just because I'm not attracted to the guys who are typically emailing me. I'm allowed to have a personal preference, and my preference is for someone who would understand me and relate to me, not for someone who I have nothing in common with and who has probably only responded because they liked my photo.

[Midnight Rider]

JellyTot, I think you over-analyze too much. Why don't you just treat yourself to a few dates with some of the closest matches who responded to you. What will it hurt if you go out for a single date, for coffee or dinner (most likely at his expense anyway!). You'll have fun, and perhaps meet a new friend. Like for example, on a friday night when you have no plans and would otherwise stay at home.. meet up with one of these guys. If you are sitting back waiting and waiting, then you are no different from that stereotype of the lady who wants to meet her "prince charming" mr.perfect. There are a lot of those kind of women around... and many of them are in their late 30s or older still single and complaining about "is mr.right out there somewhere?".

[bluestraps]

Computer dating is bull. As a guy I like to see a woman in person and say hey theres a nice looking gal. And know nothing about her before I talk to her , isnt that dumb!

[bluestraps]

The tendancy is to say im just looking for dating or just for long term or the same education level. Its too limiting Ive been on some of these sites and I dont really see anyone I really like. But I like the idea that you should just use the sites for dating and not try to arrange a marriage online. The person may have a great profile and great pictures. But then you meet them and they are just really stupid or not as great as what it seemed they were.

[Midnight Rider]

Computer dating is bull. As a guy I like to see a woman in person and say hey theres a nice looking gal. And know nothing about her before I talk to her , isnt that dumb!

 

I know. That's half the fun when you go out... talking and getting to learn about and know the person. Having some interaction beyond a keyboard. That's also why I don't like talking too much on the phone or via emails before meeting up with someone for the first time.

[eiithan]

First of all, Jelly, you cannot complain about the lack of suitable dates after two weeks! And it is not like you ask men of interest out with a compelling email (men need to be wooed too). However since you are after a traditional relationship of men pursuing women...well, here is a slight problem. On Match, sending wink does not mean much. Non-subscribers can do it. Men who never read anyone's profile can do it. At least you can tell something from an email, I am sure you would find a well-verse one intriguing. Wink is a lazy form of communication. You deserve better than that. Be it an ego boost, but leave it there.

 

I understand where you are coming from, as a person who had exclusively dated academic men. I was spoiled to discuss Plato and Wittgenstein over dinners, and when I started online dating I did look at the education level for Masters/PhD in liberal arts is a useful indicator that the man in question may be well read in philosophy and suchlike. However, well the thing is...intellectual AND attractive AND good (kind heart + knowing how to maintain a healthy relationship) guys are rare breed. They are beyond the realm of daily probabilities. If you run into one, whether in real life or online, you are in luck.

 

I mean, seriously, when you are aiming at less than 1% of the population, you better be prepared for the amount of time spent in seeking a potential date. It is neither the computer system's faults, nor unsuitable men's faults who contact you. The type of men you look for is simply hard to find (although, in your other thread, we established that such men exist in every social circle). Like I previously mentioned, try to put yourself in both physical surroundings (opera club, charity, etc) and online dating pools.

 

Funny though, because I used to look exclusively for the men with philosophy/classics/etc backgrounds, and now I got a filmmaker/illustrator date instead...this is very new to me. My date is intelligent but not an intellectual, and I was not sure how it would work. Then, by a strange turn of events, we are happily dating like penguins and he seems to be fine with my being more literate, so I started to think...perhaps I should learn how to explain theoretical concepts to him in everyday language and it will solve the matter? Really, I am learning here...

Edited November 27, 2009 by eiithan

[thegreatmoose]

She said, "I winked at a couple of guys who said they had PhDs, same as I do, or were studying for one...." So that sort of indicates to me she is inclined towards guys who have PhDs or at minimum Masters. Maybe I'm wrong. But honestly, how many PhDs have you gone out with moose?

She's inclidend towards intelligent people. What is so wrong with that?

 

A woman with a higher degree is a huge turn on for me. I prefer brainy women, but she doesn't have to have a higher degree. There are many types of women I'd go out with. The OP is definitely one of the types that I'm looking for. Most of the ones I've dated have either had a higher degree, which has is usually a Masters, or a good career. The ones that had neither just had so little in common with me.

[Vertex]

There's nothing wrong with having a certain standard... people who have similar educational backgrounds tend to do better together anyway. However, you have to simply understand that if you're limiting your pool to Ph.D dudes only, your dating pool's going to be quite small.

 

There are plenty of smart people who decide not to go down the Ph.D route. I'd consider myself a smart individual, and I only have a Bachelor's degree -- but it's from an Ivy League business school. It's also functionally equivalent to its own MBA. I could spend the extra time going for a Ph.D, but I have no need for it.

 

My point is that I think you should evaluate people by their characteristic attributes and merits and not some external gauge that can only imply compatibility so far. For instance, much of my graduating class was pretty intelligent... but compatible? Entirely different ballgame. If you're auto-nixing people based on one external gauge, you are truly shooting yourself in the foot and possibly missing out on something worth pursuing. There's nothing wrong with wanting a specific trait in your partner... just make sure you're truly evaluating the right variables when you're casting your judgments/conclusions.

[thegreatmoose]

Great, so what do I do now? The men I'm attracted to aren't attracted to me, and obviously there's no point in dating men I'm not attracted to, so I guess I'm screwed I'm not sure why the men I'm attracted to aren't attracted to me though - you'd think the cute, intellectual, bookish type of guy would be attracted to a girl who was pretty much the same.

You can keep doing what you are doing, which may well eventually work since it's only been 2 weeks and you definitey have a lot to offer.

 

You could also wink at more guys and go on some dates with the best available men who are willing to date you. Even though they may not quite be what you want, maybe one will surprise you and you will at least get a free coffee or dinner out of it.

 

Which would make you happier?

I don't feel a sense of entitlement, except maybe a sense of entitlement to date someone who understands me as a person, rather than someone who is just handsome/successful/wealthy/nice. There were some very nice men who emailed me - handsome, good career, everything going for them - but I wasn't attracted to them because they were such different types of people to me and we apparently had nothing in common. I never said they weren't good enough, I just said they weren't my type. If I had a sense of entitlement I'd be looking for a "catch", a rich, successful, handsome guy - when in fact all I'm looking for is an ok looking guy who would understand me and be compatible with me.

 

I think women more than men don't want to "date down". It has a lot to do with traditional gender roles - a man often likes to feel more powerful in a relationship, so he will happily date a woman who isn't quite on the same level intellectually or financially. A woman, on the other hand, wants to feel like she's in the traditional female role; she doesn't want to feel like she's more of a man than the man himself is, she wants to feel like he can take care of her. If a man doesn't quite match up to me, I always think "I'm smarter/richer/faster than you, I'm obviously filling the male role in this relationship, so what do I need you for?" and it just turns me off because the man seems emasculated. I'm not saying that every guy I date has to have a PhD, but he has to be my equal in some respect, e.g. equally well educated, or less educated but more wealthy/ambitious/strong.

There's a couple things that could be holding you back here. You mention you have a "type". When I date, I look for what I consider a good woman and have my prefrences, but don't have a "type" in either appearance or what they do. Based on a lot of your posts, you do seem open to dating more than one type of person though.

 

You have a PhD and a great career and you are attractive and I believe you said physically fit too. Women often want to "date up" as you say. In your case, that might be hard to do, based on your own accomplishments. It's a numbers game and this can easily eliminate 95+% of the men quickly. You don't want to turn a positive (all of your accomplishments) into a negative (hard to find a date). If you still don't find what you want in 6 months or a year, I might ease up on this "dating up" a bit. I'm not saying you should date a high school dropout or anything like that. Traditional gender roles have changed quite a bit. Just because a marriage does not conform to the traditional roles, does not make the woman less feminine or the man less masculine.

 

It all comes down to what will make you happy and if you're not happy for too long a period of time, try changing things up.

[Johnny M]

I'm not sure why the men I'm attracted to aren't attracted to me though - you'd think the cute, intellectual, bookish type of guy would be attracted to a girl who was pretty much the same.

This is a huge assumption, and a totally incorrect one. Men (regardless of whether they are 'bookish' or not) do not seek 'intellectual' women (in fact, 'intellectual' women are often a turn off because they are overly opinionated and have hugely inflated egos). Neither does a typical man care about a woman being his equal in terms of education and professional success. All of these things are of secondary importance at best.

 

There are only two criteria that men look at when evaluating a potential girlfriend: she must be good looking and pleasant to be around. Now obviously intelligence plays a role in the 'pleasant to be around' part, but only to a limited extent. A Mensa member would have no advantage over a girl of average intelligence; all that men care about is that the girl is not dumb.

[northstar1]

This is a huge assumption, and a totally incorrect one. Men (regardless of whether they are 'bookish' or not) do not seek 'intellectual' women (in fact, 'intellectual' women are often a turn off because they are overly opinionated and have hugely inflated egos). Neither does a typical man care about a woman being his equal in terms of education and professional success. All of these things are of secondary importance at best.

 

.

 

Your opinion really here. I get bored easily dating someone who is not intellectual.

[Johnny M]

Your opinion really here. I get bored easily dating someone who is not intellectual.

That's why I said 'typical man'. Obviously, there are exceptions.

[thegreatmoose]

This is a huge assumption, and a totally incorrect one. Men (regardless of whether they are 'bookish' or not) do not seek 'intellectual' women (in fact, 'intellectual' women are often a turn off because they are overly opinionated and have hugely inflated egos). Neither does a typical man care about a woman being his equal in terms of education and professional success. All of these things are of secondary importance at best.

 

There are only two criteria that men look at when evaluating a potential girlfriend: she must be good looking and pleasant to be around. Now obviously intelligence plays a role in the 'pleasant to be around' part, but only to a limited extent. A Mensa member would have no advantage over a girl of average intelligence; all that men care about is that the girl is not dumb.

You can't make such a generalization.

 

I seek out intellectual women and many of the people I know also seek out intellectual women. I don't have a specific degree requirement, but I enjoy intelligent conversations and intellectual women tend to be great at it.

 

Pleasant to be around and at least ok looking are two of many criteria that I have. There is not a single man that I know that only uses these two criteria.

[thegreatmoose]

moose, just ask her out already. gawd.

This is a dating advice website, not a dating site.

 

Some have attacked her unfairly and I'm the type that will defend someone if needed.

[Rudderless]

You've taken the insta-fail with online dating wayyyyy too hard. Why get this worked up about finding a partner? Do you have a habit of turning minor setbacks into disasters?

Edited November 28, 2009 by Rudderless

[Ody]

Does whatever site you use allow messages at first or just winks? If it does message, you could take some time to actually write a message.

 

If they have PhDs and such, perhaps they can afford to be "picky" and might only reply to the women who put in the effort for a decent message and ignore winks and other such gestures that take no time at all.

[Midnight Rider]

I just came across this MSNBC article. I think it might have some insight to the OP siatuation:

 

Top 10 signs you’re commitment-phobic:

1. You have a long and elaborate list of requirements for your ideal mate.
   
2. You go from one short-lived relationship to the next.
   
3. You have a habit of dating "unavailable" men.
   
4. You consider your married friends’ lives boring and think they settled for less.
   
5. You stay in relationships that are rocky and offer little hope of commitment.
   
6. You back out of plans at the last minute and have trouble setting a time for dates.
   
7. You cultivate large networks of friends at the expense of a single romantic relationship.
   
8. You have a lot of relationship trauma in your past.
   
9. Your career is very important to you and you often choose work over relationships.
   
10. You are constantly blowing “hot” and “cold” in your relationships.
    

[thegreatmoose]

And my advice is ASK HER OUT ALREADY.

This site is just entertainment to you RJM.

 

I think she will find a wonderful man, hopefully in the near future.

 

I just came across this MSNBC article. I think it might have some insight to the OP siatuation:

 

 

Top 10 signs you’re commitment-phobic:

1. You have a long and elaborate list of requirements for your ideal mate.
   
2. You go from one short-lived relationship to the next.
   
3. You have a habit of dating "unavailable" men.
   
4. You consider your married friends’ lives boring and think they settled for less.
   
5. You stay in relationships that are rocky and offer little hope of commitment.
   
6. You back out of plans at the last minute and have trouble setting a time for dates.
   
7. You cultivate large networks of friends at the expense of a single romantic relationship.
   
8. You have a lot of relationship trauma in your past.
   
9. Your career is very important to you and you often choose work over relationships.
   
10. You are constantly blowing “hot” and “cold” in your relationships.
    

 

These do not describe the OP, starting with #1. Her list of requirements seem reasonable and do NOT include a man having an advanced degree.

[D-Jam]

These do not describe the OP, starting with #1. Her list of requirements seem reasonable and do NOT include a man having an advanced degree.

 

I dunno. In my opinion I think anyone who wants to find love, but can't seem to get the men/women they really want (but gets loads of people they don't want) is unrealistic.

 

If she's not getting any results other than men she doesn't want, and the men she does want aren't responding to her, then she's only got a few choices:

 

1. Accept being alone, cry "I'll never settle!", and never complain about it.
   
2. Rethink her selection criteria, pick out what's the most vital and stick to it, and accept things when she finds that criteria, but he might not be the total package.
   
3. Widen her search range...like think long distance if her ideal man might be living in another city.
   
4. Get off the dating sites (or put them to the side) and figure out where those ideal men she wants go to and hang out at...then go there and try to pick one up in person. Although if they reject her there or try to do the "sex only" thing, then she should yet again think about choices 1, 2, or 3 on this list.
   

I don't care how smart, attractive, witty, creative, fun, adventurous, sweet, kind, etc. the man or woman is. If he/she is being rejected by their ideal choices and yet has loads of options in the "maybe" pile...then they're being unrealistic.

 

I think one major reason why so many out there are alone and/or cheating and/or breaking up is everyone is hellbent on finding perfection that they set the bar so high that no one can match it. One has to decide what's more important...finding that Brad Pitt/Angelina Jolie copy with a great career, money, interests etc...or finding that Joe/Jane Average who might not make the underwear moist at the get-go, but makes you kick yourself for not trying them out earlier in your life.

[thegreatmoose]

I dunno. In my opinion I think anyone who wants to find love, but can't seem to get the men/women they really want (but gets loads of people they don't want) is unrealistic.

 

If she's not getting any results other than men she doesn't want, and the men she does want aren't responding to her, then she's only got a few choices:

 

1. Accept being alone, cry "I'll never settle!", and never complain about it.
   
2. Rethink her selection criteria, pick out what's the most vital and stick to it, and accept things when she finds that criteria, but he might not be the total package.
   
3. Widen her search range...like think long distance if her ideal man might be living in another city.
   
4. Get off the dating sites (or put them to the side) and figure out where those ideal men she wants go to and hang out at...then go there and try to pick one up in person. Although if they reject her there or try to do the "sex only" thing, then she should yet again think about choices 1, 2, or 3 on this list.
   

I don't care how smart, attractive, witty, creative, fun, adventurous, sweet, kind, etc. the man or woman is. If he/she is being rejected by their ideal choices and yet has loads of options in the "maybe" pile...then they're being unrealistic.

 

I think one major reason why so many out there are alone and/or cheating and/or breaking up is everyone is hellbent on finding perfection that they set the bar so high that no one can match it. One has to decide what's more important...finding that Brad Pitt/Angelina Jolie copy with a great career, money, interests etc...or finding that Joe/Jane Average who might not make the underwear moist at the get-go, but makes you kick yourself for not trying them out earlier in your life.

She has only been on there a couple of weeks. If it gets to be several months, then it may well be a good idea for her to adjust some of her less important selection criteria. It might be a good idea in the meantime to give a date or two to some of the "maybes" just to see what happens. You never know.

 

I just don't see in *her posts* that she has to have everything pefect in a man. She says ok looking and ok career, some common interests and some intelligence. If she's eliminating 90% of the population with any of the requirements, it could be a problem, but her words do not imply that she is doing that. They do not seem like unreasonable requests. She also seems to have a lot to offer.

 

Some other women do have outrageous requests, but I don't see it from her. Hopefully it's just a matter of time before she finds the right guy.

[Scottdmw]

Hi JT,

 

Having read all the other posts, I think these are the best pieces of advice I can give you:

 

-- Don't compromise on important things like wanting to have kids. However, don't be too sure that you can judge attraction or chemistry based on a profile or photos. I really don't believe that you can. For women especially, a man's personality is an extremely large part of what she finds attractive about him. This personality is not always going to come across online, some men are better at that than others, and the personality you see online is rarely really what you will see in person. There are also theories that women feel attraction based on a particular man's scent, which gives her unconscious clues as to the genetic compatibility of their immune systems. If anything like that is true, that's another piece of the picture you will never get online. I would say that you should find all the men who meet your basic criteria of age, wanting children, things like that, and meet them all regardless of whether you feel attracted to them based on their profile. Just a one-hour coffee date, and then decide the attraction. Make a commitment to meet someone in person one time per week, and just meet the best person you can find in that period of time for a date.

 

-- When evaluating whether you think a man is compatible on the profile, keep in mind that a lot of men have been through the online thing for a number of years. A lot of us have the experience of making an initial profile that we think really says a lot about who we really are, and getting no results with it. We then go on to listen to various advice givers on the net and change our profile according to various theories about what will get results. At that point it is less a reflection of our real personality than someone's idea of what a woman will respond to. That is just a reality of what you'll see on the net. The take-home message is: once again don't be too sure that because you don't find him interesting online you will not find him interesting in person.

 

-- Don't feel bad about the level of responses you've gotten. A lot of people are not paid members, or leave their profiles up when they're not active. Although dating is not the same for men as for women, do understand that the amount of initial emails and winks you have gotten is more than most men see in a lifetime of online dating. Men do discount women based on other factors also. For myself for example, religion is very important to me, and I will not date a woman who doesn't match that regardless of how attractive she is otherwise. Other men may have similar deal breakers that will not be obvious.

 

Stick with it, it can work, but just keep in mind that it's not easy. I would definitely also suggest you check out the website meetup.com-- it's a great resource for finding new social groups and meeting people in person.

 

Scott