JohnP82 Posted November 24, 2009 Posted November 24, 2009 I think I was once dumped for being nice The guy in question thought I was desirable and confident and sexy and mysterious, and he really liked me. But as soon as I said I really liked him too and I wasn't dating anyone else, and replied to his messages straight away, and was available whenever he wanted me, and forgave him straight away for little mistakes, then he immediately lost interest. If I'd been more of a mysterious unavailable bitch then maybe he'd have been keener to continue dating me Yeah, I've been dumped too for being too nice and on top of that for being a virgin at the time. I was over eager, but hey it was my first relationship.
CaliGuy Posted November 24, 2009 Posted November 24, 2009 But nice without an interesting personality = dud. It's also universal "code" for DOOR MAT
TheBigQuestion Posted November 24, 2009 Posted November 24, 2009 Being too pliant, too willing to compromise, too willing to be a doormat in any way should be considered hindrances to dating and relationships by common sense alone. That's what "nice" means, and I'm sure you can throw in being boring to that list of criteria as well. This type of nice guy will finish last, and rightfully so: he's a chump. If you use the literal meaning of "nice," then yes, I think we all can agree that a vast majority of people are looking for someone "nice." Only a human trainwreck would want to deal with an overly needy significant other. As far as I'm concerned, a guy who has been called "too nice" has no right to complain about dating troubles if he insists on not trying something new or different, even if it means trying to develop some type of "edge" or "swagger" (I'm speaking in hypotheticals here). There seems to be major opposition to "changing" your personality for reasons I can't really understand. Your personality as it is in the present moment is not always the best it can be. You're not betraying anything inherently valuable by altering your patterns of behavior to achieve better results in a very specific area of your life. Being too nice in the negative connotation we've been discussing is also a corrosive thing once a relationship exists. The most successful relationships will always have a decent amount of push and pull, tension and release, disagreement, and healthy conflict. Those things can't happen if one party is excessively passive or excessively one-dimensional. As someone who has never really been a doormat (with the exception of the first girl I ever tried courting back in sophomore year of high school), I can't relate to the mindset of the "nice guy." But not being a "player" by any means, I also see the value in trying to moderate any impulse I have to emotionally smother a potential love interest.
EarthGirl Posted November 24, 2009 Posted November 24, 2009 ha ha "chump" ...I like how you turned that back around to the guys and dolls thing..or was that another thread? you probably have no idea what I'm talking about...anyway..in regards to your whole post.."push and pull" "tension" etc...I just do not want to see things from that angle anymore, I don't think that is what life or love is really about...or should be anyway. I want to see things from a higher perspective. I know people will say but life is not always how it "should" be ..especially the shoulds in a mind of an idealist such as myself. Bt I've spent so much time trying to accept things as they are and getting nowhere, that I'm starting to think I might actually get SOMEWHERE (even if not the heights to which I dreamed of getting) if I went back to my old idealistic ways of thinking.
EarthGirl Posted November 24, 2009 Posted November 24, 2009 (edited) oh and KINDNESS (if that is what you mean by"being nice" ) is ALWAYS a HEALING thing...the exact opposite from "corrosive"...I know you're talking about more nuanced things here, but honestly I think it is your kind of thinking ..which is becoming more and more common I think...which is the real toxin that is so corrosive. People are trying to make the dysfunction work to their advantage with all these "bad/good girls vs. bad/good guys" "don't be a doormat, be kind and giving, BUT have a little bit of an "edge"at all times WHATEVER YOU DO!"...instead of trying to FIX and HEAL the dysfunction they are just trying to survive within the toxicity and the maze of it all and trying to get the very best hand that they can get for themselves when it comes to "love"...But "love" has absolutely nothing to do with these things, these games..sometimes it lives within all this unfortunately or dies within it or whatever, sometimes maybe it's all fake...But all of this cr@p has NOTHING to do with what love really is... Edited November 24, 2009 by EarthGirl
deux ex machina Posted November 24, 2009 Posted November 24, 2009 (edited) Being too pliant, too willing to compromise, too willing to be a doormat in any way should be considered hindrances to dating and relationships by common sense alone. That's what "nice" means, and I'm sure you can throw in being boring to that list of criteria as well. This type of nice guy will finish last, and rightfully so: he's a chump. If you use the literal meaning of "nice," then yes, I think we all can agree that a vast majority of people are looking for someone "nice." Only a human trainwreck would want to deal with an overly needy significant other. As far as I'm concerned, a guy who has been called "too nice" has no right to complain about dating troubles if he insists on not trying something new or different, even if it means trying to develop some type of "edge" or "swagger" (I'm speaking in hypotheticals here). There seems to be major opposition to "changing" your personality for reasons I can't really understand. Your personality as it is in the present moment is not always the best it can be. You're not betraying anything inherently valuable by altering your patterns of behavior to achieve better results in a very specific area of your life. Being too nice in the negative connotation we've been discussing is also a corrosive thing once a relationship exists. The most successful relationships will always have a decent amount of push and pull, tension and release, disagreement, and healthy conflict. Those things can't happen if one party is excessively passive or excessively one-dimensional. As someone who has never really been a doormat (with the exception of the first girl I ever tried courting back in sophomore year of high school), I can't relate to the mindset of the "nice guy." But not being a "player" by any means, I also see the value in trying to moderate any impulse I have to emotionally smother a potential love interest. I don't think it's false, either. Most normal people will realize if it ever crosses into the area where such a "swagger" crosses over into a mask one uses to hide their true self behind. It's also worth taking into account that we are multi-faceted. We tend to show a different side of ourselves to different people. We may act very differently around the boss at work versus our neighbor down the road, but each side we show is true. People can also act very differently in one romantic relationship versus another as well. You see it here, posters pointing out that their love interest treats an ex or potential so much differently than the way they are treated. While there are certain aspects of our character that appear to be hardwired, there are other parts of the personality - or the ways we express that personality - that are much more flexible, and there is nothing wrong with expressing those things differently. If some work better than others, and a person decides to incorporate them - more power to them. Edited November 24, 2009 by deux ex machina
EarthGirl Posted November 24, 2009 Posted November 24, 2009 I don't think it's false, either. Most normal people will realize if it ever crosses into the area where such a "swagger" crosses over into a mask one uses to hide their true self behind. It's also worth taking into account that we are multi-faceted. We tend to show a different side of ourselves to different people. We may act very differently around the boss at work versus our neighbor down the road, but each side we show is true. People can also act very differently in one romantic relationship versus another as well. You see it here, posters pointing out that their love interest treats an ex or potential so much differently than the way they are treated. While there are certain aspects of our character that appear to be hardwired, there are other parts of the personality - or the ways we express that personality - that are much more flexible, and there is nothing wrong with expressing those things differently. If some work better than others, and a person decides to incorporate them - more power to them. D- I take offense to this...if by any chance the thread that I just posted, oh, I don't know less than a half hour ago, about my ex who was horrible to me...are you saying that it's "ok" how he treated me ..and it's just normal to be "flexible" about how you treat different people if he treats another girl a lot better than he treated me? yeah it's definitely my fault completely and mine alone that I stayed way too long, but if you say that horrible abuse is just normal and natural then I am completely offended.
deux ex machina Posted November 24, 2009 Posted November 24, 2009 D- I take offense to this...if by any chance the thread that I just posted, oh, I don't know less than a half hour ago, about my ex who was horrible to me...are you saying that it's "ok" how he treated me ..and it's just normal to be "flexible" about how you treat different people if he treats another girl a lot better than he treated me? yeah it's definitely my fault completely and mine alone that I stayed way too long, but if you say that horrible abuse is just normal and natural then I am completely offended. I haven't read your thread. No, I do not believe that horrible abuse is normal and natural in the least.
A O Posted November 24, 2009 Posted November 24, 2009 I like nice and I like nice people, but as D-Jam and others have pointed out - you need to bring more than just 'niceness' to the table. Being nice, simply isn't enough on its own. .
EarthGirl Posted November 24, 2009 Posted November 24, 2009 I like nice and I like nice people, but as D-Jam and others have pointed out - you need to bring more than just 'niceness' to the table. Being nice, simply isn't enough on its own. . I don't know that anybody is JUST nice...certain people may be "boring" to certain people that they do not mesh with and they do not pique eachother's interest and give them that feeling of fascination. But that is probably either because of an emotional block in the "boring" person or simply because they are not a good match. Most nice people have more about them than just niceness because kindness tends to attract lots of different interests ...humor, philosophy, music....Hell even truly evil people (talking murderers and rapists here, as opposed to just "players") tend to be more fascinating than you would think. I mean i know there is the thing how there is a thin line between genius and madness and some cooky people are obsessed with serial killers and stuff...but most of us normal people might tend to think than an evil person like that..their brain is wired wrong and they're evil and there is just not much else to it. But the fact is almost everyone on earth is multi-layered and quite interesting indeed at least to certain people and it may be millions or billions if their a famous celebrity that is found quite fascinating or maybe just a few and a poor soul may not even get to meet one of the people that would have found them completely fascinating if their paths had crossed along there somewhere in this life...Some people are "boring" on the surface as in they prefer a night at home with their cat and reading a book on the couch to going out to a club or museum...But that is only the surface of their behavior in life and their psyche most likely is a whole whole lot more complicated and interesting than that. I think what you really mean is that during dating a person should contribute ideas and open their minds and spirits a little not just in an act of reciprocity but in a way to create an atmosphere of communication and fun. That I definitely agree with. Oh but I SO wish people would stop using that "bring to the table" expression. Seriously I just want to take that phrase out back, blind fold it, and shoot it and put it out of it's misery.
EarthGirl Posted November 24, 2009 Posted November 24, 2009 I haven't read your thread. No, I do not believe that horrible abuse is normal and natural in the least. oh sorry...just an unfortunate coincidence then. sorry for jumping on you when it wasn't warranted .
A O Posted November 24, 2009 Posted November 24, 2009 I don't know that anybody is JUST nice My idea of a nice person is simply someone who behaves well towards others. My idea of nice was developed well before the dating dynamic grabbed hold of the term. I think what you really mean is that during dating a person should contribute ideas and open their minds and spirits a little not just in an act of reciprocity but in a way to create an atmosphere of communication and fun. That I definitely agree with. By golly, something like this would never have entered my head! In dating terms, my views are closer to other posters, namely nice people come across as pushovers (too eager to please, puts others ahead of themselves) and pushovers are unattractive to women especially. On top of that, nice people tend to think that niceness is all they need to possess. That's where they stuff up also. So, nice people need to stand up for themselves and be more layered in terms of having more than one trait that'll attract people to them. Oh but I SO wish people would stop using that "bring to the table" expression. Seriously I just want to take that phrase out back, blind fold it, and shoot it and put it out of it's misery.Glad I read this last bit...I changed my terminology, doesn't sound quite right but it'll do. .
threebyfate Posted November 24, 2009 Posted November 24, 2009 (edited) It's very rare, that I ever meet anyone who's truly nice, in an altruistic sense. Most often, people are nice to others because they want others to like them or because they were raised to believe that one should portray themselves as nice. Some of the most manipulative people I've ever had the displeasure to come in contact with, were self-proclaimed "nice" people, veneered as nice but under it all, just seething cauldrons of insecurities, malice and spite. Most people have both a decent and selfish side to them. It's up to you, in your own actions towards them, which side you're going to bring out more. And of course, on the flipside, you have people who have little to no respectful boundaries of behaviour, who should be avoided like the plague. So, from a dating perspective, assert your needs and choose wisely. Open your eyes to all sides of the person and ensure that the positives, far outweigh the negatives. The minute someone self-proclaims niceness, watch your back. Oh and don't forget that all of it relies on what you also bring to the table. It's a vicious boardroom out here. Edited November 24, 2009 by threebyfate
phineas Posted November 24, 2009 Posted November 24, 2009 Dr. Cox: Lady, people aren't chocolates. D'you know what they are mostly? Bastards. Bastard-coated bastards with bastard filling.
sumdude Posted November 24, 2009 Posted November 24, 2009 It means boring. Being called "nice" is like a piece of Wonderbread -- it's plain and tasteless. At least in the context of dating it does. <snipped>> But nice without an interesting personality = dud. .. and lame in the sack.
espec10001 Posted November 24, 2009 Posted November 24, 2009 . Nice girls. They act all nice but then when you get them alone that's a whole different story! "Girls just wanna have fun!" Man some girls can be downright BAD! Sadly the BAD girls are the ones we remember the most
AD1980 Posted November 24, 2009 Posted November 24, 2009 Being too pliant, too willing to compromise, too willing to be a doormat in any way should be considered hindrances to dating and relationships by common sense alone. That's what "nice" means, and I'm sure you can throw in being boring to that list of criteria as well. This type of nice guy will finish last, and rightfully so: he's a chump. If you use the literal meaning of "nice," then yes, I think we all can agree that a vast majority of people are looking for someone "nice." Only a human trainwreck would want to deal with an overly needy significant other. As far as I'm concerned, a guy who has been called "too nice" has no right to complain about dating troubles if he insists on not trying something new or different, even if it means trying to develop some type of "edge" or "swagger" (I'm speaking in hypotheticals here). There seems to be major opposition to "changing" your personality for reasons I can't really understand. Your personality as it is in the present moment is not always the best it can be. You're not betraying anything inherently valuable by altering your patterns of behavior to achieve better results in a very specific area of your life. Being too nice in the negative connotation we've been discussing is also a corrosive thing once a relationship exists. The most successful relationships will always have a decent amount of push and pull, tension and release, disagreement, and healthy conflict. Those things can't happen if one party is excessively passive or excessively one-dimensional. As someone who has never really been a doormat (with the exception of the first girl I ever tried courting back in sophomore year of high school), I can't relate to the mindset of the "nice guy." But not being a "player" by any means, I also see the value in trying to moderate any impulse I have to emotionally smother a potential love interest. I never understand when people[mostly women] say relatiniships need to be difficult and have drama and arguments,isnt there enough drama and headache in everyday life why do some people need it in a relationship or get bored?? I undertsand no relationship is gonna be perfect and without conflict but the people who get bored without it are a little nuts imo
AD1980 Posted November 24, 2009 Posted November 24, 2009 As far as too nice blah..The idea that soembody can be too nice is hillarious.. Im not one who enjoys arguments or conflicts..If that bores some women or some women thinks im less of a man because im too easy going then i dont need that mental case in my life.. Im not a pushover but i dont feel the nedd to argue and battle over something unless its a big deal..
threebyfate Posted November 24, 2009 Posted November 24, 2009 As far as too nice blah..The idea that soembody can be too nice is hillarious.. Im not one who enjoys arguments or conflicts..If that bores some women or some women thinks im less of a man because im too easy going then i dont need that mental case in my life.. Im not a pushover but i dont feel the nedd to argue and battle over something unless its a big deal..Then why are you battling about this now?
AD1980 Posted November 24, 2009 Posted November 24, 2009 Then why are you battling about this now? shhhhh its an act im trying to prove im a real non boring man by arguing
TheBigQuestion Posted November 24, 2009 Posted November 24, 2009 ha ha "chump" ...I like how you turned that back around to the guys and dolls thing..or was that another thread? you probably have no idea what I'm talking about...anyway..in regards to your whole post.."push and pull" "tension" etc...I just do not want to see things from that angle anymore, I don't think that is what life or love is really about...or should be anyway. I want to see things from a higher perspective. I know people will say but life is not always how it "should" be ..especially the shoulds in a mind of an idealist such as myself. Bt I've spent so much time trying to accept things as they are and getting nowhere, that I'm starting to think I might actually get SOMEWHERE (even if not the heights to which I dreamed of getting) if I went back to my old idealistic ways of thinking. Well the reality is that relationships have these things, and always have. I think a healthy (as in not too much) amount of conflict is key to making relationships work. I'm not saying you need to FORCE these tensions and releases, I'm just saying that in most any romantic relationship, they happen naturally. A person being overly domineering or overly submissive in a relationship IS a corrosive factor in relationships, and the ones that I've witnessed that have one person playing one of these roles just never seems healthy or happy. Being meek and weak just isn't what human beings find attractive, so this extends to dating as well.
TheBigQuestion Posted November 24, 2009 Posted November 24, 2009 oh and KINDNESS (if that is what you mean by"being nice" ) is ALWAYS a HEALING thing...the exact opposite from "corrosive"...I know you're talking about more nuanced things here, but honestly I think it is your kind of thinking ..which is becoming more and more common I think...which is the real toxin that is so corrosive. People are trying to make the dysfunction work to their advantage with all these "bad/good girls vs. bad/good guys" "don't be a doormat, be kind and giving, BUT have a little bit of an "edge"at all times WHATEVER YOU DO!"...instead of trying to FIX and HEAL the dysfunction they are just trying to survive within the toxicity and the maze of it all and trying to get the very best hand that they can get for themselves when it comes to "love"...But "love" has absolutely nothing to do with these things, these games..sometimes it lives within all this unfortunately or dies within it or whatever, sometimes maybe it's all fake...But all of this cr@p has NOTHING to do with what love really is... I think you overlook the possibility that you can be a kind person without allowing people to walk all over you. The key, as always, is finding the balance. I don't see what's dysfunctional about that. And I apologize for not being clear, as I'm trying to cover two different concepts: dating and relationships. Having a certain swagger about you is beneficial in the dating stage, but I'm well aware that more superficial personality traits become less important as you go into a relationship. The thing that unites the two is that you can't expect to be successful in either if you give off the vibe that you are a doormat. And this applies to women as well as men. I don't really see any of this as dysfunctional. The quality of not being a doormat is attractive for reasons that are psychological, evolutionary, and biological in origin.
phineas Posted November 24, 2009 Posted November 24, 2009 I treat women with respect but I don't allow them to walk all over me. anymore. I was a doormat. Held prisoner in the friendzone as a helper monkey. I broke free. I'm still a nice guy though. I just need a woman to give me a reason to spend time with her. sex is a perfect example of a good reason. I got no interest in being their shopping buddy.
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