D-Jam Posted November 23, 2009 Posted November 23, 2009 Ok...I see it happen over and over and over again. A very average joe kind of guy will tell me how he struck out with a girl he met online...and I still believe the problem is he's moving too fast. So you happen upon a woman be it in a dating site, meetup site, messageboard, or even chat room. You two click, find out you're both from the same area, and even truthfully showed pics, etc... Suddenly the guy is asking either for her number, email, or even facebook account...and she goes cold. Even moreso she stops talking to him. That or the great conversation suddenly takes a 180 when he asks her out for coffee. MY OPINION? He moved too fast. I personally think that only a rare breed of male who can really get from "hi" to getting contact information or even first date setup in the initial conversation. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's very very hard for most Average Joes to get to that level of success. Maybe these guys who can pull it off are very handsome, or wealthy, or they just have great "game", charm, social skills, etc to make a girl feel comfortable and open to him in a short period of time. Most guys though...don't...including me. So this isn't a pot shot, but a burst of reality on many of you. Lord knows the women I've gotten into RLs with and even dating I had been talking to for weeks or even months. We got to know one another at first, conversed, maybe ended up in small amounts of flirtation later, but it ended up in the date, number, etc. However, it didn't happen quickly. I know some preach here the idea of asking her out ASAP so you can either know you're not wasting your time or even because of the fear of another guy rolling in, but my observations and experiences have shown me that most women are very defensive when meeting all those average joes out there (especially online)...and aren't going to hand out contact info quickly or agree to meet without a good "chat period". My point to all this is that the average joes out there who seem to keep striking out because they're asking for contact info and/or a date too quickly need to SLOW DOWN. You're NOT that extraordinary of a male to make women agree to things that quickly. Deal with it. If you're a great guy with little or no game, and she's worth your time...she'll take the time to get to know you (rather than move on to the next guy). Agree or disagree?
thegreatmoose Posted November 23, 2009 Posted November 23, 2009 Most of the women I've gone out with do so after a few back and forth emails with a call in 1-2 weeks. With rare exception, if I don't ask her out very quickly when I first call her, there will never be a date. More often than not, I feel a bit rushed.
amirpc Posted November 23, 2009 Posted November 23, 2009 I think on the internet things can move a lot lot quicker than in real life. In my experience the girl is basically attracted enough to go out on a date with you or not, and the conversation before you meet is less to develop attraction and more to filter. In real life I think it takes a lot longer because there isn't necessarily an alignment of interests. Dating sites, both parties are clearly looking to date...girl you meet at a coffee shop - she could be enjoying the flirtation, but dating is totally not on her mind at all. Girls you meet at speed dating for instance are going to be ready to move a lot faster as well, simply because they are clearly looking for dates. I think guys need to judge the speed at which to pursue based on the circumstances, not based on their own desires entirely.
Jersey Shortie Posted November 23, 2009 Posted November 23, 2009 D-Jam, I completely agree. I'm not a fan of waiting months before meeting someone, but I am also not a fan of when guys go cold turkey and ask me for my phone number or even a date before we've developed some conversation. I've had guys go from 0-60 way too fast and it's been a turn off. I want to see that he wants to put in the effort. And there are just a certain level of social skills it takes to maintain a progressively easy-going conversation and hopefully date. I also agree with asking for access to your facebook account too soon. Facebook as my family, close friends etc etc etc....I'm not going to give access to a guy who looks for me on Facebook that I barely know, even If I like you. There is a certain build up and momentum that needs to be maintained. And I am sure it's different for everyone but some guys come off too pushy, desperate or just lacking in social skill.
Ody Posted November 23, 2009 Posted November 23, 2009 Disagree 100%, Average Joe needs to move on if he does not have lunch date/phone number whatever by email 4, otherwise he will waste all his time on women who are just window shopping and don't really feel like going out on dates at all. Of course there are a few exceptions but most people need in person contact, not just email, to determine compatibility so it's best to at least have coffee or something early on. If a woman does the 180 it's not because she's afraid to have coffee with you quickly it's because she didn't like the profile or emails that much. She's probably (heh like me!) someone who wastes too much time dilly dallying around on the internet and by asking for coffee date you've elevated the activity from dilly dally to "make a decision" for her. Or put simply... jeez it's just coffee! This is in Joe's best interests too unless he really likes spending a lot of time emailing strangers.
amirpc Posted November 23, 2009 Posted November 23, 2009 Disagree 100%, Average Joe needs to move on if he does not have lunch date/phone number whatever by email 4, otherwise he will waste all his time on women who are just window shopping and don't really feel like going out on dates at all. This. I think a girl pretty much knows if she's interested in meeting a guy for coffee or whatever quickly, the e-mails are just necessary to weed out crazies. If its dragging out for a long while, she's either not interested or she's just bored and using you for entertainment/validation.
Stockalone Posted November 23, 2009 Posted November 23, 2009 Lord knows the women I've gotten into RLs with and even dating I had been talking to for weeks or even months. We got to know one another at first, conversed, maybe ended up in small amounts of flirtation later, but it ended up in the date, number, etc. However, it didn't happen quickly. ... Agree or disagree? I think it is a good concept. And I am sure that approach works for you and other guys. It certainly is worth a try, but there are no guarantees that it will work. It never worked for me. ALL the women who knew me beforehand (from a study group, taking the same classes, co-ed sports team, friend of a friend, a woman I met online, etc.) were the ones who turned me down flat when I asked them out. I always got the "You're a great guy but I'm not interested" from those women. Or even the pre-emptive "You know I only think of you as a friend, right?". The good news is that you might make a new friend that way. However, if you are looking for a gf rather than a female friend, I believe it can be counter-productive to get to know the woman before asking her out. Being rejected by a stranger never bothered me. I had far more trouble dealing with rejection from a woman I had already gotten to know better or worst of all, had formed a friendship with her. I had better results asking out women I hardly knew or didn't know at all when asking them out. And I have no game at all. I have never tried online dating though, but I would think it makes a lot of sense here to move from online to real life sooner rather than later.
A O Posted November 23, 2009 Posted November 23, 2009 Hey D-Jam Interesting to see how this topic goes down here relative to AM .
GoodOnPaper Posted November 23, 2009 Posted November 23, 2009 The more "average" the guy, the more the Friendzone looms . . . . . I would think it would be better to err by being too fast rather than too slow.
jerseyboy Posted November 23, 2009 Posted November 23, 2009 I dont understand the premise How do you meet people in real life outside your social circle and not ask for contact info lol.
Author D-Jam Posted November 23, 2009 Author Posted November 23, 2009 Hey D-Jam Interesting to see how this topic goes down here relative to AM . I like multiple opinions.
CaliGuy Posted November 23, 2009 Posted November 23, 2009 I have the opposite problem. They usually offer me their phone number and many have asked for FaceBook too. I see the women being much more aggressive than the men....
ADF Posted November 24, 2009 Posted November 24, 2009 D-Jam, some guys do move to fast, and move in a way that makes women uncomfortable. Much of the time, it is because they are seeing quick hookups. But there is something else that comes into play you may not be aware of. The advice women so often give--move slow, take time to get to know her--often doesn't work in real life. The reason is because available, unattached women are often being pursued by more than one man. Any guy who takes his time is going to lose out in the end. He's going to be pushed aside by a guy who is more aggressive. This is part of the reason men sometimes move faster than you think they should.
trueblue72ny Posted November 24, 2009 Posted November 24, 2009 it all comes down to the type of people you are, and what you want at that particular moment. ive been on both ends of the spectrum. when you get a # right off the bat. and when it takes weeks to actually talk. instant? or slow ? gratification. you chose. personally, i like the slow ha ha
Jerry18 Posted November 24, 2009 Posted November 24, 2009 (edited) I disagree. You have to take into account efficiency. I don't want to spend 2 weeks with a girl just to get her phone number so I can get rejected after one date. It's more efficient for me to just ask out more girls and have a few say yes versus taking things slowly and getting a few yes after several weeks. Girls are really opportunity. You have to grab them and try them out ASAP. You can't just be nice to them for weeks and then see them get a new boyfriend or get rejected. It's not worth it. D-Jam, I completely agree. I'm not a fan of waiting months before meeting someone, but I am also not a fan of when guys go cold turkey and ask me for my phone number or even a date before we've developed some conversation. I've had guys go from 0-60 way too fast and it's been a turn off. I want to see that he wants to put in the effort. And there are just a certain level of social skills it takes to maintain a progressively easy-going conversation and hopefully date. I also agree with asking for access to your facebook account too soon. Facebook as my family, close friends etc etc etc....I'm not going to give access to a guy who looks for me on Facebook that I barely know, even If I like you. There is a certain build up and momentum that needs to be maintained. And I am sure it's different for everyone but some guys come off too pushy, desperate or just lacking in social skill. Why do you think I should want to invest my valuable time with someone who I don't even know. If I don't start dating you or get some kind of assurance that you like me, then what's the point of investing in you so much time? This is what I don't understand. You want to see us make some effort? People are busy. I have no idea if you're going to reject me or not so why should I spend weeks courting you when there are a ton of other girls available. I just feel that the guy needs to have some kind of "downpayment" in the form of at least one date before he is willing to invest time, money, and energy. Taking things slowly = paying for a house that you might not even be able to own. Edited November 24, 2009 by Jerry18
kiss_andmakeup Posted November 24, 2009 Posted November 24, 2009 I guess it depends on the situation. What I didn't like when I was on a dating site, was guys talking to you for like 5 minutes and then asking you to add them on facebook. I'd almost rather give them my phone number (not that I would give them that either after only talking a little bit). Facebook is kind of a personal thing in my opinion, I keep mine private and it's not that I have negative or unflattering stuff on it, but it gives the person access to see who you're friends with, (possibly) who you've dated, where you may live/work/go to school...I'm not really comfortable with that.
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