threebyfate Posted November 20, 2009 Posted November 20, 2009 This is insightful and also true. In the limited case or whether or not my partner needs to know that ten years ago I nailed some Maxim model or whatever, I do consider myself a better judge of need. If my partner chooses to make a similar judgement call about that night she had with the Denver Broncos in 1996, well more power to her, as long as there are no concrete health/STD/whatever considerations. Probably unnecesary on her part, since I'm not a football fan, but I don't lose sleep over the notion. Thank god I haven't had a threesome!Straight up, it wouldn't bother me if someone nailed a Maxim model. I've seen some of the pictures of my husband's exes and they're pretty hot stuff. No big deal since they're exes. For that matter, I've seen pictures and met some of my exes, exes. As long as the signals were okay, no big deal. I sincerely believe that exes are exes for good reason. Unless a man is still hung up on an ex, why let this affect your relationship?
Thornton Posted November 20, 2009 Posted November 20, 2009 **To you** it does. Which is fine. In fact necesary. But it doesn't have to imply this to everyone. Something about your tone though seems to imply you think it's fine for you to feel this way, but not fine for someone else to think the reverse. Sorry if I am misreading. It's fine for someone else to feel however they want to feel. But I reserve the right not to disclose information which seems to consistently make others view me in a negative light, particularly when other people seem to make a mountain out of a molehill. Such disclosure has no benefits, only drawbacks. I guess the same goes for someone who once had a threesome, if they find that everyone is judgmental about it - it's not something they would want to disclose unless they wanted to cast themselves in a negative light. The only outcome of disclosing such a thing to me would be that I'd dump them.
A O Posted November 20, 2009 Posted November 20, 2009 It's not the same. In fact I think #1 is much worse. But that's just my opinion. As long as you see yours as an opinion as well, and not somehow objectively more true, I think it's quite reasonable. Great stuff Ody. Good thread. .
Ody Posted November 20, 2009 Posted November 20, 2009 For that matter, I've seen pictures and met some of my exes, exes. As long as the signals were okay, no big deal. I sincerely believe that exes are exes for good reason. Unless a man is still hung up on an ex, why let this affect your relationship? I agree completely and think you're quite healthy in this attitude! Unfortunately, plenty of attractive and otherwise wholly compatible women do not see it that way. That is the root of our disagreement, I think you would find such an attitude (well, the male equivalent) a dealbreaker, whereas I do not. Keep in mind women tend to get more hung up on this kind of thing then men. I joked about penis size before, but from what I can tell, women being seriously insecure about their looks is way more widespread than guys being insecure about their penises. That said, maybe I'm wrong, I'm not in the business of telling dudes their member is big enough.
Author jerseyboy Posted November 20, 2009 Author Posted November 20, 2009 I don't think it is the same. Promiscuity is a huge turn-off for me; I don't want to date some guy who's banged half the county and clearly detaches emotion from sex, not to mention the huge risk of having sex with him because of the amount of diseases going around. The fact that I fell in love with someone else while already in a (non-sexual) relationship isn't really the same as someone being a slut and putting it about indiscriminately, now is it? I can understand what you are saying, however self serving. Theoretically would his having a one night stand twice with two different women be worse to you than his sleeping with both at once?
Ody Posted November 20, 2009 Posted November 20, 2009 I guess the same goes for someone who once had a threesome, if they find that everyone is judgmental about it - it's not something they would want to disclose unless they wanted to cast themselves in a negative light. The only outcome of disclosing such a thing to me would be that I'd dump them. Yes agreed, yay it only took two pages before the fires of e-disagreement melted into the warm happiness of internet compromise! Hugs all around.
Author jerseyboy Posted November 20, 2009 Author Posted November 20, 2009 I agree completely and think you're quite healthy in this attitude! Unfortunately, plenty of attractive and otherwise wholly compatible women do not see it that way. That is the root of our disagreement, I think you would find such an attitude (well, the male equivalent) a dealbreaker, whereas I do not. Keep in mind women tend to get more hung up on this kind of thing then men. I joked about penis size before, but from what I can tell, women being seriously insecure about their looks is way more widespread than guys being insecure about their penises. That said, maybe I'm wrong, I'm not in the business of telling dudes their member is big enough. Well said Especially the last paragraph.
Thornton Posted November 20, 2009 Posted November 20, 2009 I can understand what you are saying, however self serving. Theoretically would his having a one night stand twice with two different women be worse to you than his sleeping with both at once? Yes, I think sleeping with both women at once would be worse, though I'm not quite sure why I think that. Perhaps because it's more divergent from the ideal of one-man-one-woman fidelity, it seems dirtier somehow. I'd probably accept the former but dump a guy for the latter because it seems a bit perverted to me, and I'd worry that he'd want to repeat the experience or might have other unorthodox desires which I'd be unwilling to participate in.
threebyfate Posted November 20, 2009 Posted November 20, 2009 I agree completely and think you're quite healthy in this attitude! Unfortunately, plenty of attractive and otherwise wholly compatible women do not see it that way. That is the root of our disagreement, I think you would find such an attitude (well, the male equivalent) a dealbreaker, whereas I do not. Keep in mind women tend to get more hung up on this kind of thing then men. I joked about penis size before, but from what I can tell, women being seriously insecure about their looks is way more widespread than guys being insecure about their penises. That said, maybe I'm wrong, I'm not in the business of telling dudes their member is big enough.Where you and I differ in attitude is that if someone is that insecure, this insecurity will manifest itself in different ways. If the insecurity is about looks, it will manifest itself through the need for a lot of external validation which can easily result in cheating, when the chips are down in a relationship. As for penis size, I can honestly say that the men I've slept with, haven't had this issue. It would be a dealbreaker for me, if so, since men who are, tend to compensate in other ways.
Author jerseyboy Posted November 20, 2009 Author Posted November 20, 2009 Yes, I think sleeping with both women at once would be worse, though I'm not quite sure why I think that. Perhaps because it's more divergent from the ideal of one-man-one-woman fidelity, it seems dirtier somehow. I'd probably accept the former but dump a guy for the latter because it seems a bit perverted to me, and I'd worry that he'd want to repeat the experience or might have other unorthodox desires which I'd be unwilling to participate in. Its not unreasonable. Think most people would feel the same way. All they were pointing out, and which youve since acknwoledged, is that someone could use your same standard regarding a past affair to justify not disclosing having a threesome as well, for much the same reason
Thornton Posted November 20, 2009 Posted November 20, 2009 If a guy asked me too many questions about exes I'd find his insecurity very unattractive. I certainly wouldn't want to discuss penis size with him, because men seem to be very insecure about that sort of thing - if they think you once had a bigger one it completely puts them off sex, which seems ridiculous to me because good sex and love has nothing to do with penis size. Now I'm older and wiser I'd probably refuse to comment on the issue.
Thornton Posted November 20, 2009 Posted November 20, 2009 Its not unreasonable. Think most people would feel the same way. All they were pointing out, and which youve since acknwoledged, is that someone could use your same standard regarding a past affair to justify not disclosing having a threesome as well, for much the same reason I don't think it's wise to disclose anything which doesn't directly affect the present relationship, to eliminate such things reflecting negatively. Information regarding your past relationships should be on a need-to-know basis only! Of course I would want to know if someone had a threesome, but only so I could dump him. It would be in his best interests to keep quiet about it if he felt it would have no impact on the current relationship (i.e. he never wants to do it again).
Ody Posted November 20, 2009 Posted November 20, 2009 Where you and I differ in attitude is that if someone is that insecure, this insecurity will manifest itself in different ways. If the insecurity is about looks, it will manifest itself through the need for a lot of external validation which can easily result in cheating, when the chips are down in a relationship. Actually, I can kind of see how you would feel that way dating men. There is that trait in some guys to just chase tail to validate their manhood. More of a spectrum than a type I think, but I get what you mean. Physical insecurity just seems absolutely rampant though women, especially in their twenties, and if I wrote off every woman with the need for validation of her looks as cheater material I would have to just live in my closet and never risk dating. So I guess I'm with you on insecurity->validation need but not on validation need->cheating and since I don't mind flattering girls, especially if they deserve it, I'm OK with that first part.
threebyfate Posted November 20, 2009 Posted November 20, 2009 Actually, I can kind of see how you would feel that way dating men. There is that trait in some guys to just chase tail to validate their manhood. More of a spectrum than a type I think, but I get what you mean. Physical insecurity just seems absolutely rampant though women, especially in their twenties, and if I wrote off every woman with the need for validation of her looks as cheater material I would have to just live in my closet and never risk dating. So I guess I'm with you on insecurity->validation need but not on validation need->cheating and since I don't mind flattering girls, especially if they deserve it, I'm OK with that first part.Everyone needs validation to a degree but when they get psycho about comparing their physical looks against exes and getting butt hurt about it, that's a HUGE, red flag! Okay validation: How do I look in this dress? Not okay validation: Do you think I'm better looking than your ex?
Author jerseyboy Posted November 20, 2009 Author Posted November 20, 2009 Actually, I can kind of see how you would feel that way dating men. There is that trait in some guys to just chase tail to validate their manhood. More of a spectrum than a type I think, but I get what you mean. Physical insecurity just seems absolutely rampant though women, especially in their twenties, and if I wrote off every woman with the need for validation of her looks as cheater material I would have to just live in my closet and never risk dating. So I guess I'm with you on insecurity->validation need but not on validation need->cheating and since I don't mind flattering girls, especially if they deserve it, I'm OK with that first part. Think you expressed it best earlier with respect to what constitutes acceptable levels of security in a woman. I attempted it myself , but you expressed it far more clearly. And as you suggested it would exclude many toehrwise worthwhile partners (not to mention most of the female population)
Lizzie60 Posted November 20, 2009 Posted November 20, 2009 Im curious as to what people think of the following. How much is a new partner entitled to know about your past relationships and sexual activity? More so for older people. Youre a thirty soemthing single man or woman or older. Realistically there is a lot of "baggage" Are they entitled to know how many partners? All the kind of activities you may have participated in? Do you feel entitled to know? I think it's unrealistic and kind of silly to think that one is entitled to know all about the other's past.. I think one has to be in complete denial or foolishly naive if she/he thinks that the other will tell him/her the truth if they had a ton of partners.. really.. As far as I'm concerned.. I do NOT wish to know about my partner's past.. and I will not tell him anything about me.. simple as that..
A O Posted November 20, 2009 Posted November 20, 2009 but from what I can tell, women being seriously insecure about their looks is way more widespread than guys being insecure about their penises. That said, maybe I'm wrong In a general sense, women attract and men are attracted hence the wider spread insecurity among women. Where you and I differ in attitude is that if someone is that insecure, this insecurity will manifest itself in different ways. If the insecurity is about looks, it will manifest itself through the need for a lot of external validation which can easily result in cheating, when the chips are down in a relationship. More great stuff I don't think it's wise to disclose anything which doesn't directly affect the present relationship, to eliminate such things reflecting negatively. Reflective negativity or saving one's arse! Of course I would want to know if someone had a threesome, but only so I could dump him. Well, if you want to know this then I assume you tell them about your past also. I assume even more though, that you simply don't ask this question because your past actions are far more concerning to most people, then this behavior. .
Ody Posted November 20, 2009 Posted November 20, 2009 Everyone needs validation to a degree but when they get psycho about comparing their physical looks against exes and getting butt hurt about it, that's a HUGE, red flag! Okay validation: How do I look in this dress? Not okay validation: Do you think I'm better looking than your ex? How about the middle ground. Not my particular deal breakers, but you get the drift... Wifey: Did you sleep with Linda? Hubby: Sure honey, it felt great I couldn't believe I was actually sleeping with a former Miss USA! [572 hours of passive agressive nonsense goes by and things are fine again for a while] Hubby: Hey, I see the Jockson brothers sent you a Christmas card, that was nice! Wifey: Well they better considering I Chinese Fingercuffed them on Xmas 2003! [Hubby curls into ball and sucks thumb. By Christmas 2010, things are much better] Anyway another thing I want to point out, I would much prefer total honesty, but stop well short of requiring or even expecting it. I would never ever want to make my partner feel ashamed, or like she couldn't tell me something important, especially sexually where shame is so easy and there are a variety of hurtful things that could have happened. Likewise I'd really like to know all about it, even that last BF Mr. Hung, at least in the long run, and would much prefer someone who finds my rumpus with the cheerleading squad (OK, not really but a guy can dream) interesting rather than repugnant. But at this point in my life I find I have to pick and choose where I can be idealistic versus pragmatic, and partner's past sexual history is well down on that list of things.
Thornton Posted November 20, 2009 Posted November 20, 2009 Well, if you want to know this then I assume you tell them about your past also. I assume even more though, that you simply don't ask this question because your past actions are far more concerning to most people, then this behavior. I think most guys would be equally concerned about me being a slut as they would about me having cheated. I wouldn't ask someone I really liked if they ever had a threesome, because if he said yes I'd have to dump him. I figure if he's into threesomes then it'll come out at some point and I'll dump him then, and if such an experience is firmly in his past then it will never come up again and I'll never need to know about it. No matter how much someone revealed about their past, I'd never feel compelled to reveal my past - no matter what someone says, they really don't want to know the truth about your past. If they push it, you tell them only what they would want to hear, and anything unsavoury you keep to yourself because it'll only damage your relationship.
Ruby Slippers Posted November 20, 2009 Posted November 20, 2009 Keep in mind women tend to get more hung up on this kind of thing then men. I joked about penis size before, but from what I can tell, women being seriously insecure about their looks is way more widespread than guys being insecure about their penises. That said, maybe I'm wrong, I'm not in the business of telling dudes their member is big enough. Sure, but men get way more hung up on the woman's sexual past than the woman gets hung up on the man's. Just look at the hundreds of threads on LS from insecure men tearing their hair out over the fact that their woman had sex in the past. I have never given a bf a hard time about his sexual past, but one of my exes practically tortured me about the fact that I had had ONE sex partner before him. He even went so far as to tell me that if we got married, I couldn't wear white on the wedding day. I told his mom what he said (she asked), and she said to him, "Your father wasn't my first. Get over yourself."
Ody Posted November 20, 2009 Posted November 20, 2009 Sure, but men get way more hung up on the woman's sexual past than the woman gets hung up on the man's. Just look at the hundreds of threads on LS from insecure men tearing their hair out over the fact that their woman had sex in the past. I have never given a bf a hard time about his sexual past, but one of my exes practically tortured me about the fact that I had had ONE sex partner before him. He even went so far as to tell me that if we got married, I couldn't wear white on the wedding day. I told his mom what he said (she asked), and she said to him, "Your father wasn't my first. Get over yourself." I agree with you fully. I think the madonna whore complexes most men carry around are gross. Women have a bit of this too, just like men have a bit of the insecurity thing. But I agree with your assessment of the distribution.
Ms. Joolie Posted November 20, 2009 Posted November 20, 2009 But at this point in my life I find I have to pick and choose where I can be idealistic versus pragmatic, and partner's past sexual history is well down on that list of things. That's interesting. Pragmatically, we should know our partner's sexual history? I think not. STD-free and relationship history* is plenty telling and enough. If there is a sexual issue that is interfering with the current relationship, it will have to be discussed of course, as any other interfering issue. THAT is pragmatic to me. *even then, only to a certain extent, in regards to the relationship history.
Ody Posted November 20, 2009 Posted November 20, 2009 That's interesting. Pragmatically, we should know our partner's sexual history? I think not. STD-free and relationship history is plenty telling and enough. If there is a sexual issue that is interfering with the current relationship, it will have to be discussed of course, as any issues. THAT is pragmatic to me. I think you totally misread my post. I was saying I would not be idealistic and think "oh yes for this true love we must disclose fully!" and instead be pragmatic and say "OK no need to dump out all our history to each other right up front let's play it by ear." Agreed re health issues. However I feel the same pragmatism about relationship history than I do with sexual history, in fact I feel it would be hard to separate the two in any serious in-depth discussion.
threebyfate Posted November 20, 2009 Posted November 20, 2009 How about the middle ground. Not my particular deal breakers, but you get the drift... Wifey: Did you sleep with Linda? Hubby: Sure honey, it felt great I couldn't believe I was actually sleeping with a former Miss USA! That's called diahrrea of the mouth, as well as passive-aggressive lashing out by the husband. Instead of the husband answering as such, all he needed to say was: Hubby: Yes, I did. But you also have to ask why this wasn't disclosed by the husband, previous to the wife asking. Hubby: Hey, I see the Jockson brothers sent you a Christmas card, that was nice! Wifey: Well they better considering I Chinese Fingercuffed them on Xmas 2003! [Hubby curls into ball and sucks thumb. By Christmas 2010, things are much better] Refer to my above comments, interchanging husband and wife. This is what happens when there's non-disclosure to begin with. That the two got to marriage without being open with each other, is a serious problem already. Anyway another thing I want to point out, I would much prefer total honesty, but stop well short of requiring or even expecting it. I would never ever want to make my partner feel ashamed, or like she couldn't tell me something important, especially sexually where shame is so easy and there are a variety of hurtful things that could have happened. Likewise I'd really like to know all about it, even that last BF Mr. Hung, at least in the long run, and would much prefer someone who finds my rumpus with the cheerleading squad (OK, not really but a guy can dream) interesting rather than repugnant. But at this point in my life I find I have to pick and choose where I can be idealistic versus pragmatic, and partner's past sexual history is well down on that list of things.If someone is hung up on their sexual behaviour of the past, that's also a big, red flag. It's not idealism. It's what makes for viable relationships. My entire past isn't lily white but not in reference to sexuality. But I'm not ashamed to disclose it. Until you accept your own past, it will always be an insecurity. Own it. For example, my ex-H cheated on me, so I divorced him. Not only did I divorce him, I ripped his heart out in the process, including getting revenge on the OW involved by manipulating her into taking action, action that tore her family apart. Three years later, I still feel no remorse about a second of it. This information since the divorce, has been disclosed right up front to potential partners. I own it. It's my past. It's possible that if it were to happen again, I might repeat it. Who knows since no one can predict the future.
Ody Posted November 20, 2009 Posted November 20, 2009 [/i] That's called diahrrea of the mouth, as well as passive-aggressive lashing out by the husband. No, it's called humor, or at least an attempt on it on my part. I was pretty sure the "curls into a ball and sucks thumb" part would give that away, my bad I guess! The reader was meant to infer that wifey knew beforehand that Linda was teen usa and asked. They do broadcast such things nationally. Clearly the christmas card thing was nonsense as well, the point was wifey slept with two men and hubby couldn't deal. Anyway we will have to agree to disagree.
Recommended Posts