something needs to change

[shadowplay]

Well, something clearly does not add up. If all men were only interested in dating women who are far above average, the vast majority of men would be single for life. So either these supposedly average men you expressed an interest in are more attractive than you give them credit for or you are less attractive than you say. Most average-looking men date average-looking women.

 

Or maybe the guys in the 6-7 range that I've been interested in only go for 8-9s because women are less picky than men when it comes to appearance. I'm often noticed average looking guys pining after much hotter women and rejecting girls on their level.

[shadowplay]

Man, I just feel terrible guys. If I'm ugly, then what?

 

I'm completely paralyzed here. I keep refreshing this thread. I can't focus on my work. I should be sleeping but I'm not tired.

 

I need someone to talk to.

[Jaytb]

Man, I just feel terrible guys. If I'm ugly, then what?

 

I'm completely paralyzed here. I keep refreshing this thread. I can't focus on my work. I should be sleeping but I'm not tired.

 

I need someone to talk to.

 

you've said you have body dysmorphic disorder right? and you're definitely a half glass empty kind of person. so please relax however you can.

[Johnny M]

Or maybe the guys in the 6-7 range that I've been interested in only go for 8-9s because women are less picky than men when it comes to appearance. I'm often noticed average looking guys pining after much hotter women and rejecting girls on their level.

First of all, women are not less picky than men when it comes to looks. That's a long-disproven myth. Second, guys in the 6-7 range are not average. 5 is average.

 

The bottom line is that everyone tries to get the hottest partner possible. People with unrealistic expectations have a hard time in the dating scene. If you are being consistently rejected by the men you approach, you need to adjust your standards. Instead of going for guys in the 6-7 range, consider guys who are 4-5.

[shadowplay]

First of all, women are not less picky than men when it comes to looks. That's a long-disproven myth. Second, guys in the 6-7 range are not average. 5 is average.

 

The bottom line is that everyone tries to get the hottest partner possible. People with unrealistic expectations have a hard time in the dating scene. If you are being consistently rejected by the men you approach, you need to adjust your standards. Instead of going for guys in the 6-7 range, consider guys who are 4-5.

 

When did I say guys in the 6-7 range were average? I said that guys on this level seem to always try to date up.

 

I was rejected by 2-3 guys in the last two years who were on this level (one was questionable whether it was a rejection or not since he may have had a gf), so I don't know if I can really infer a trend from that.

 

That's not just a myth. If you look at studies they come to the same conclusion.

[Johnny M]

When did I say guys in the 6-7 range were average? I said that guys on this level seem to always try to date up.

 

I was rejected by 2-3 guys in the last two years who were on this level (one was questionable whether it was a rejection or not since he may have had a gf), so I don't know if I can really infer a trend from that.

 

That's not just a myth. If you look at studies they come to the same conclusion.

okay, you've lost me...

[shadowplay]

you've said you have body dysmorphic disorder right? and you're definitely a half glass empty kind of person. so please relax however you can.

 

Yeah I've had BDD for awhile, but it's disheartening when posters (like Johnny_M) try to basically convince me that I'm ugly.

[Jaytb]

Yeah I've had BDD for awhile, but it's disheartening when posters (like Johnny_M) try to basically convince me that I'm ugly.

 

well you aren't. you're shy and scared. that is your disadvantage. Guys will ask out girls when they detect interest from them, but shyness and acting scared will obfuscate any sign of interest.

[Johnny M]

Yeah I've had BDD for awhile, but it's disheartening when posters (like Johnny_M) try to basically convince me that I'm ugly.

Oh, get over yourself. I am not trying to convince you that you are ugly. I'm giving you exactly what you said you wanted: an honest opinion. You've stated in your original post:

What I wouldn't give to know what it was, even if the truth hurt. I wish I could just ask a guy, but then I'd probably never get an honest response.

 

You claim that you want to hear the truth, but apparently what you're really looking for is a validation of your view that men are 'superficial'. if you wanted this to be a pity thread, you shouldn't have said that you were looking for honesty.

 

I'm not trying to brig you down. I'm actually trying to help you by giving you tips on how to improve your chances in the dating world.

[shadowplay]

Oh, get over yourself. I am not trying to convince you that you are ugly. I'm giving you exactly what you said you wanted: an honest opinion. You've stated in your original post:

 

 

You claim that you want to hear the truth, but apparently what you're really looking for is a validation of your view that men are 'superficial'. if you wanted this to be a pity thread, you shouldn't have said that you were looking for honesty.

 

I'm not trying to brig you down. I'm actually trying to help you by giving you tips on how to improve your chances in the dating world.

 

I would appreciate your honesty if you actually knew what I looked like and saw me in person.

[pandagirl]

Shadowplay, forget about the superficial stuff. You are a pretty girl, and even if you were "average" looking, you could still get the dates. The problem isn't the way you look, it's the way you feel about yourself.

 

I suffered from really bad self-image from my teens to my mid-20s. I still have remnants of it, but I'm much better. The truth is, you get what you put out into the world, and if you feel bad about yourself, no one worth knowing will ever be attracted to you.

 

Tonight over dinner with my friends, I talked about how I always feel like I date guys who are WAY out of my league. I am by no means a beauty queen, but the guys I date -- and noted by others -- are "nines." Handsome, intelligent, good bodies, charming, funny, creative. The thing is, I know I'm nothing that special to look at. At best I'm marginally above-average, but my confidence comes from the fact that I know I'm an interesting person, who is sharp, witty and quite charming! Attitude and self-worth go a LONG way with attracting people.

 

You are obviously very intelligent, thoughtful and sensitive. I say forget about dating for now and focus and you. You need to believe you are awesome, because you are! And if you don't believe it, no one else will!

[boogieboy]

I would appreciate your honesty if you actually knew what I looked like and saw me in person.

 

Well we will never see you in person, you wont even post where your from. So we would have to settle for cell phone pictures. That would be more accurate than any other photos. Post one so we can tell you whats up. Btw, if you went on these dates with guys, and they dont call you back, or you couldnt make them fun, then you arent as fun as you think you are.

[shadowplay]

Well we will never see you in person, you wont even post where your from. So we would have to settle for cell phone pictures. That would be more accurate than any other photos. Post one so we can tell you whats up. Btw, if you went on these dates with guys, and they dont call you back, or you couldnt make them fun, then you arent as fun as you think you are.

 

Didn't go on dates with them. It's kind of complicated, and would take too long to explain.

 

I was actually considering posting a cellphone pic of me earlier, but my phone is currently MIA. I know it sounds like an excuse, but I swear! :laugh:Still, I feel like it wouldn't be an accurate representation because I look better in pictures. But I might post a picture anyway when I find it.

[shadowplay]

Well we will never see you in person, you wont even post where your from. So we would have to settle for cell phone pictures. That would be more accurate than any other photos. Post one so we can tell you whats up. Btw, if you went on these dates with guys, and they dont call you back, or you couldnt make them fun, then you arent as fun as you think you are.

 

Oh, I'm from the northeast US.

[boogieboy]

Didn't go on dates with them. It's kind of complicated, and would take too long to explain.

 

I was actually considering posting a cellphone pic of me earlier, but my phone is currently MIA. I know it sounds like an excuse, but I swear! :laugh:Still, I feel like it wouldn't be an accurate representation because I look better in pictures. But I might post a picture anyway when I find it.

 

ENOUGH ABOUT IN PERSON. None of us are going to see you in person EVER. All we can go on is a picture. Doesnt matter if you look better in person, guys know the looks buffer from your picture.

 

Btw when it comes out that you dont look bad, what will your excuse be then?

Edited November 15, 2009 by boogieboy

[shadowplay]

 

Btw when it come out that you dont look bad, what will your excuse be then?

 

What do you mean?

[shadowplay]

Funny. One of the three guys who I thought rejected me just messaged me two minutes ago on facebook and said we should play boggle some time together (we were supposed to awhile back but it never happened). He asked me where I live and when I'm free.

 

He's probably not interested, but at least he's not totally snubbing me like I thought.

[boogieboy]

Funny. One of the three guys who I thought rejected me just messaged me two minutes ago on facebook and said we should play boggle some time together (we were supposed to awhile back but it never happened). He asked me where I live and when I'm free.

 

He's probably not interested, but at least he's not totally snubbing me like I thought.

 

Dont worry about if hes interested, just go out and have fun. ANd for christs sake, FLIRT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

When you eventually put your picture up and we wind up giving you an honest opinion that you look fine, that your looks arent an issue, what will your excuse for not getting a bf be then?

[crazy_grl]

Were you and my roommate separated at birth? She's also an attractive girl who blames her inability to get a man on all the wrong things and talks about unnecessary plastic surgeries she thinks she needs for her face (like chin implants).

 

Your problem is not this:

 

I mean that I'm thin in the right places -- thin waist, legs, arms, but I have nice, largish breasts, nice hips and butt. I guess my butt is the only area that falls short. It's a good shape but kind of small.

 

I have long blonde wavy hair, but lately I haven't been maintaining it very well. It's gotten sort of unruly and dry. I need to cut it.

 

My height is 5'5" - 5'6". My weight is 115 pounds.

 

"largish" breasts go a long way, especially at 5' 5" 115 pounds. You're the same size as me, and I get hit on or asked out quite a bit, more so the more confident I feel with myself and at times when I feel less nervous socially. (I have some social phobia.)

 

Your problem is this:

 

I guess the main thing is under my eyes and around my cheekbones my face is too flat. Also my upper lip could be fuller. I don't know what else.

 

Man, I just feel terrible guys. If I'm ugly, then what?

 

He's probably not interested, but at least he's not totally snubbing me like I thought.

 

You need to get some confidence in yourself. Start trying to see the glass as half full instead of half empty.

 

I rarely approach guys because I'm scared of rejection. I generally talk to guys if they talk to me, but the conversations rarely go anywhere...which I assume means lack of interest on their part.

 

You don't need to be scared of rejection. Just talk to guys for the sake of talking to them. Don't expect anything. Guys generally ask a girl out when they're interested, so you don't need to ask them and risk being rejected. If they don't ask you out, don't take that as a rejection. Just be happy to have had the chance to talk to a new person.

 

Most guys won't mind being approached for a conversation by a decent looking girl. You just have to make sure you're putting some effort into the conversation and showing interest in guys you like. Smiling also goes a long way. For guys that you like, so does touching their arm.

 

Maybe you could try to start out talking to guys you don't find very attractive and would be less scared to talk to. Then work your way up to the more attractive ones.

 

Also, my roommate has a problem with her body language that makes her less appealing. I don't know if you do, since I haven't seen you. But make sure you're not all slouchy. Don't sit closed-off and depressed looking with your shoulders hunched. Walk like you're confident (even if you don't feel it -- fake it til you make it).

Edited November 15, 2009 by crazy_grl

[torranceshipman]

Tbh ShadowPlay you sound like a catch for any guy, but you seem to only date for validation (to feel prettier, or more desirable or whatever), which means you'll always enfd up with d*cks, who are the playa's that you have to 'win' (therein lies the validation). Only problem is, they're not worth having and will always treat you badly. Then you get used to bad treatment and put up with it and your self esteem is perpetually on the floor. This kind of guy is also likely to date for validation hence going for the hot flaky social butterfly. No substance, just perceived style. Everyone needs to grow out of this silly type of dating behavior.

 

What you need to do is date for respect and good treatment ONLY. What can a new guy bring to the party? How can you improve YOUR life? Let them impress you for a change.

 

The problem with the guy you discuss in this post is that he chuckles about a girl who has been sweet enough to ask him out. What a d*ck. He wants to know how to turn her down? Say 'sorry, I am really flattered, but I only see you as a friend' (or whatever). This guy doesn't know how to act like a gentleman yet so you need to forget about him...

[kdark]

Shadowplay, I've seen your picture before. You aren't ugly. Far from it. And confirmation of this fact from anonymous posters on a message board isn't going to change anything.

 

From reading this thread it sounds like you almost wish you were ugly so you had an excuse for why you can't find get dates.

[C-i-C-u]

To the OP: that guy you were talking about having lots of girls after him and him rejecting them. Its probably because he is gay:D

 

Also by not being totally physically unappealing does that mean you are willing to go out with someone who is overweight by not totally fat?

[boogieboy]

Shadowplay, I've seen your picture before. You aren't ugly. Far from it. And confirmation of this fact from anonymous posters on a message board isn't going to change anything.

Doesnt this negate your own statement?

[Stockalone]

It's frustrating because I know that I have a lot to offer. I'm smart, interesting, talented (at art), nice and usually fun to be around. I keep myself in good shape and dress reasonably. Yes, I'm shy, but I've always been friendly to guys I'm interested in. Given all these positives, I feel like there must be something glaringly "wrong" with me that guys see and I don't. I put wrong in quotations because I mean wrong by their standards, not mine. You'd think I was obese or something.

 

I understand how you feel.

 

 

What I wouldn't give to know what it was, even if the truth hurt. I wish I could just ask a guy, but then I'd probably never get an honest response.

 

While I agree with you that most people don't like to be so blunt, you could give it a try. Maybe you would get an honest response.

 

 

So recently I've tried just removing myself emotionally and focusing on my work, convincing myself that I don't care. That works pretty well until something triggers an emotional reaction. Often it's stupid stuff that other people wouldn't react to.

 

I think that is a bad idea. I've done that for years. I simply convinced myself that women don't exist in a romantic way.

 

That only works if you build a wall around your heart. And that is dangerous. It's very difficult to break down those walls again and you might not be prepared for what happens after you tear those walls down.

 

 

Finally, it stings that he would be so superficial because he seems like exactly the kind of guy who wouldn't be....he's smart, really nice and reflective. If a guy like him can't see past the surface, then what guy would? Are there ANY desirable guys out there who aren't superficial?

 

All people are superficial, some more than others.

 

 

All my life people were always reassuring me, and I believed them. People always said "your day will come" and "older guys will appreciate you." Friends and family would tell me that I must be beating off the men and all this nonsense. I know people meant well, but I'm so sorry I ever listened to them. The gap between the reality and what they told me stings.

 

I can relate. And I agree with you. I am sure they want to be supportive and maybe they even believe it, but it can be counter-productive. At least for me, such pep talk is counter-productive, but I am a the-glass-is-half-empty kind of person.

 

I am sure that kind of pep talk works for other people. It's the same with "You'll find love when you least expect it or when you need it the most". You can either believe that or not.

 

 

I really hope with maturity guys become less superficial.

 

I mean how many guys out there really care about what a girl is like inside if she doesn't meet some arbitrary standard he has? Those things are only bonuses once a girl passes the first test for him. How often do guys even get to know a girl they're not initially drawn to enough to appreciate her full character? And if they do how often do they change their mind about somebody they initially friend-zoned? Do they ever? Please tell me otherwise because that might make me feel better.

 

If I go by personal experience, all the women who got to know me before I asked them out where the ones who turned me down flat.

 

As a guy, you are normally the one who has to make the first move. If you don't know the woman, you'll go for the one you find physically attractive.

 

And only then, you'll try to find out if you like the kind of person she is. It makes no sense to start asking out women who don't physically appeal to you, hoping they'll have that great personality that will make you fall in love with them, regardless of their looks.

 

Even if that is possible (which I doubt), the chances of it happening seem no better than finding a woman that you physically like and who has a compatible personality to your own.

 

I think it can only work as a package deal. You'll have to be attracted to their looks and their personality. If you come close (having at least one out of two), that is usually not good enough. And as far as generalizations go, that is the case for both genders.

 

 

I'm not interested in hearing responses from guys about how hard they have it being rejected by women, and how I must be rejecting all these nice guys. That's simply not true. I'm not one of those girls. I'm not rejecting anyone...I haven't in years because no one has expressed any interest in me. In fact I've dated most of the guys who have asked me out on the rare occasions when it happens, which has led to some very unfortunate relationships.

 

You know what the worst part of it is? It's actually painful at this point when I feel attracted to anyone. I have to immediately push the feeling down because I associate attraction with rejection. Anyone else experience that?

 

So what do I change?

 

I don't know what you could change. You are already in an environment that let's you meet the kind of men you'd be interested in.

 

Have you ever been exposed to an environment where the men are different? Maybe you'd like another type of men as well.

 

If you can rule that out and the artsy, intelligent guy is the type you want, then you'll have to think about what you could do to improve your chances.

 

If you feel you have a couple of flaws (who doesn't), I'd suggest you emphasize what you like about your face. You can use many things like hairstyle (curly or straight hair, shorter or longer hair), or make-up to complement and highlight what you like about your face and at the same time make the things you don't like disappear or less noticeable. You don't need surgery for that.

 

I have never seen your face, but I once saw a picture of you from the neck down and I am certain that your body is attractive to many men.

 

You said it yourself that you are rather shy. You don't have to be a social butterfly, but maybe your shyness is seen as a lack of interest by men. If you seem like you'd rather not be talked to, men might not think they have a shot and thus don't even try to talk to you in the first place

 

Do you smile at guys you are interested in, make eye contact with them?

 

You could ask friends you trust to tell you what they think you are doing "wrong". Maybe they have noticed something that could help you. Your problem may not be your looks, it could simply be that people get the wrong impression of your personality based on how you interact with them.

 

And something else, if the men you are drawn to turn out to be not so great or not interested, maybe you should think about that too for a second. Maybe the type you like and want is not the type that is good for you.

 

 

What I have found odd in life is that if a guy is even a little desirable (example: kind of cute face, tall, somewhat out of shape but not fat, smart), he will have many girls fighting over him. While a girl has to be drop dead gorgeous to get the same treatment.

 

I've noticed this too! And it seems counterintuitive because I thought that girls were the ones who were supposed to be in high demand. But it's true. My standards don't seem high at face value but whenever I'm at all attracted to a guy I find out he has a million other girls in the wings.

 

Do you really believe men have it easier than women?

 

I honestly think I met all those requirements (example: kind of cute face, tall, somewhat out of shape but not fat, smart), though I am not sure about the cute face. I have two old pictures in my album, so you can determine that for yourself if you want to.

 

Yet for years, the closest I got to a date was "you're a great guy, your time will come, you've got a lot to offer, etc. But I am not interested in you that way".

 

 

Are there ANY smart guys who would date a girl who is intelligent and fun to be around but just average looking?

 

Of course they exist. Average means different things to different people. I think it is entirely possible to become attracted to a person because of their personality. That can make you take another look and notice someone you usually wouldn't have based on looks alone.

 

However, if you mean "Are there ANY smart guys who would date a girl who is intelligent and fun to be around but just unattractive looking in the guys opinion"?

 

Then the answer is pretty much no. If someone thinks you aren't attractive, that won't change.

Edited November 15, 2009 by Stockalone

[shadowplay]

Stockalone, I looked at your photos and you're definitely cute. I have no idea why you'd have trouble attracting women. Maybe you came off as unconfident somehow?