something needs to change

[shadowplay]

I haven't seen my ex in several weeks. I've been pretty lonely. The only thing that's kept me afloat is focusing on my schoolwork. But the romantic/social aspect of my life really distresses me whenever I have a free moment to reflect. My avie is a good representation of my love life.

 

I want to change my life by changing my brain. What needs to change in my thinking for me to be happy?

 

At this point it seems highly improbable that I'll ever date a guy I'm interested in. Here are the facts:

 

I've never actually been with a guy who I'm that attracted to. I think in the past (when I was 18-23; I'm now 26) there were a few guys where the interest was mutual but things didn't work out because of timing. But things have dried up in the last couple years. The last three guys I've expressed interest in have all rejected me -- even the possibility of just "hooking up" with me and nothing more. I think only one or two guys has flirted with me in the past two years.

 

For the record my standards aren't high. I will basically go on a date with any guy who seems reasonably intelligent, seems to have shared interests with me and isn't totally physically unappealing.

 

This leads me to conclude that whatever it is that guys like I don't have. I don't know if it's personality or looks or some combination of the two.

 

It's frustrating because I know that I have a lot to offer. I'm smart, interesting, talented (at art), nice and usually fun to be around. I keep myself in good shape and dress reasonably. Yes, I'm shy, but I've always been friendly to guys I'm interested in. Given all these positives, I feel like there must be something glaringly "wrong" with me that guys see and I don't. I put wrong in quotations because I mean wrong by their standards, not mine. You'd think I was obese or something.

 

What I wouldn't give to know what it was, even if the truth hurt. I wish I could just ask a guy, but then I'd probably never get an honest response.

 

Anyway, it's useless to analyze. I'm done with that. The point is that I don't have it, whatever it is.

 

So recently I've tried just removing myself emotionally and focusing on my work, convincing myself that I don't care. That works pretty well until something triggers an emotional reaction. Often it's stupid stuff that other people wouldn't react to.

 

Today it was overhearing this guy I like talk to his friend. We're kind of friends and in a few classes together. I know nothing could ever happen between us because he's friends with my ex. It's not just that....I have this feeling he'd never date me even if I expressed interest. Whenever I feel attracted to him I kind of push it down. But the fact is he's exactly the kind of guy I'd want to date if the situation were different. He's smart, cute, really, really nice and has a lot in common with me.

 

It seems like he's often getting hit on by girls and frequently rejecting them. He was chuckling with his friend about how another girl in one of his classes had asked him to a movie and he was trying to think of a good excuse because he wasn't interested. I don't know what he's attracted to or what he looks for. But I get the sense that it's mostly about appearance. Maybe I'm completely wrong, but you know how sometimes you just have this strong intuition based on little cues you can't pinpoint?

 

I identify with the girls that he's rejected. I can totally imagine being one of them, and the awkwardness of him trying to turn me down. I never wanted to be that girl...you know the one that a guy chuckles about with his friend because she's interested and he's not. I've become that girl.

 

Also, the fact that he's my type makes me wonder if this is further evidence that I'll never be with a guy I'm that interested in. And that he's in such high demand. You might conclude that my standards are too high, but they're not. He's nothing spectacular. He's not a supermodel or anything. He's just reasonably attractive, nice and smart. He could easily blend into a crowd.

 

Finally, it stings that he would be so superficial because he seems like exactly the kind of guy who wouldn't be....he's smart, really nice and reflective. If a guy like him can't see past the surface, then what guy would? Are there ANY desirable guys out there who aren't superficial?

 

Enough about him. I guess the main problem is my expectations. All my life people were always reassuring me, and I believed them. People always said "your day will come" and "older guys will appreciate you." Friends and family would tell me that I must be beating off the men and all this nonsense. I know people meant well, but I'm so sorry I ever listened to them. The gap between the reality and what they told me stings.

 

I'm not happy with this. Something needs to change. I feel trapped. I've tried accepting the fact that I'll be single forever (or else settle) and that doesn't seem to make me feel any better.

 

I've tried convincing myself that if I just focus on myself the men will come calling, but I don't believe that's really true. I believe that the vast majority of men are superficial.

 

Big generalization but here it is. I've noticed that many intelligent, artsy men (usually the type I'm unfortunately drawn to) go for the the same women. It's always the hot social butterfly who may not be that smart or interesting but has the veneer of intelligence or sophistication because of how she dresses. Think Edie Sedgwick but less wild. Or sometimes something as simple as a girl wearing glasses, having brown hair and not dressing like a slut will lead a guy to believe she's smart enough. I don't mean these girls are bimbos, but often they're people who wouldn't stand out if it weren't for their appearance. And often they're flakey as hell, but I guess this makes them seem more unattainable to the guys.

 

I really hope with maturity guys become less superficial.

 

I mean how many guys out there really care about what a girl is like inside if she doesn't meet some arbitrary standard he has? Those things are only bonuses once a girl passes the first test for him. How often do guys even get to know a girl they're not initially drawn to enough to appreciate her full character? And if they do how often do they change their mind about somebody they initially friend-zoned? Do they ever? Please tell me otherwise because that might make me feel better.

 

I'm not interested in hearing responses from guys about how hard they have it being rejected by women, and how I must be rejecting all these nice guys. That's simply not true. I'm not one of those girls. I'm not rejecting anyone...I haven't in years because no one has expressed any interest in me. In fact I've dated most of the guys who have asked me out on the rare occasions when it happens, which has led to some very unfortunate relationships.

 

You know what the worst part of it is? It's actually painful at this point when I feel attracted to anyone. I have to immediately push the feeling down because I associate attraction with rejection. Anyone else experience that?

 

So what do I change?

Edited November 15, 2009 by shadowplay

[Jaytb]

You sound very negative.

 

You're interested, as you say, in guys who are "in demand". I think there's your problem. Even if you have much to offer, there's not going to be enough of them to satisfy the female population's demand of them so bagging a guy who's "in demand" is a difficult task indeed. Best to stick with guys who aren't in demand

[shadowplay]

You sound very negative.

 

You're interested, as you say, in guys who are "in demand". I think there's your problem. Even if you have much to offer, there's not going to be enough of them to satisfy the female population's demand of them so bagging a guy who's "in demand" is a difficult task indeed. Best to stick with guys who aren't in demand

 

I don't know if I'm always interested in guys who are in demand. As I said my main requirements are that a guy is smart, has some stuff in common with me and is of at least average attractiveness. Is that really too high of a standard??

[SadandConfusedWA]

I don't know if I'm always interested in guys who are in demand. As I said my main requirements are that a guy is smart, has some stuff in common with me and is of at least average attractiveness. Is that really too high of a standard??

 

Unfortunately, yes. A guy that you describe will always have girls fighting over him. Also, you somehow seem to be drawn to d#ckheads. That guy that openly makes fun of girls that are into him is a classic example.

 

I am faced with the similar problem. I could never really get a guy that I was truly attracted too beyond some short-term relationship (if that). And I am now 30 so it doesn't get any better.

 

I have come to realization that it's either settle for someone that I don't feel real passion for or stay single.

 

What I have found odd in life is that if a guy is even a little desirable (example: kind of cute face, tall, somewhat out of shape but not fat, smart), he will have many girls fighting over him. While a girl has to be drop dead gorgeous to get the same treatment.

[shadowplay]

Unfortunately, yes. A guy that you describe will always have girls fighting over him. Also, you somehow seem to be drawn to d#ckheads. That guy that openly makes fun of girls that are into him is a classic example.

 

I am faced with the similar problem. I could never really get a guy that I was truly attracted too beyond some short-term relationship (if that). And I am now 30 so it doesn't get any better.

 

I have come to realization that it's either settle for someone that I don't feel real passion for or stay single.

 

What I have found odd in life is that if a guy is even a little desirable (example: kind of cute face, tall, somewhat out of shape but not fat, smart), he will have many girls fighting over him. While a girl has to be drop dead gorgeous to get the same treatment.

 

I've noticed this too! And it seems counterintuitive because I thought that girls were the ones who were supposed to be in high demand. But it's true. My standards don't seem high at face value but whenever I'm at all attracted to a guy I find out he has a million other girls in the wings.

[boogieboy]

Shadow, what is it about you physically that you think doesn't meet the standards of these guys that you are talking about? You say these guys are superficial and want a certain kind of woman, so what are your stats? You say no one ever asks you out, what do you look like....and where are you from?

[SadandConfusedWA]

BB, shadow is a very pretty girl and thin too. It doesn't make any sense.

[Jaytb]

I don't know if I'm always interested in guys who are in demand. As I said my main requirements are that a guy is smart, has some stuff in common with me and is of at least average attractiveness. Is that really too high of a standard??

 

Law of probabilities: The probability of two things happening in one instance are the product of the two probabilities happening separate from the other. Once you've multiplied the probability of a man being smart, loyal, and attractive together, you have a yield of only a few percent. Those few percent can choose whoever females they want, and there aren't enough of these guys to satisfy the female population's demand of them.

 

Now, are your standards too high? I don't know. But that guy you talked about is a rarity. Guys are extremely rarely asked out, so this guy was clearly a desirable one.

 

I guess the best advice is to just wait a bit. You want desirable characteristics in a guy, so you'll have to be prepared to wait for a guy to come along who fits these characteristics.

[Jaytb]

What I have found odd in life is that if a guy is even a little desirable (example: kind of cute face, tall, somewhat out of shape but not fat, smart), he will have many girls fighting over him. While a girl has to be drop dead gorgeous to get the same treatment.

 

 

Probably because there are plenty of good looking women but not too many guys who are smart, tall, not fat, and cute face.

[SadandConfusedWA]

My brother for example is 27 and has just gotten out of 4 year relationship.

 

Objectively, he is kind of cute but slightly overweight and he is pretty smart but not very confident or outgoing. In the few months that he has been single he had about 5 quite pretty girls fight over him. Text and call constantly to beg him to go out with them. He rejected them all, apart from the hottest girl of the bunch.

 

It seems like any half-way decent guy has truckload of attention, which is so depressing.

[shadowplay]

Law of probabilities: The probability of two things happening in one instance are the product of the two probabilities happening separate from the other. Once you've multiplied the probability of a man being smart, loyal, and attractive together, you have a yield of only a few percent. Those few percent can choose whoever females they want, and there aren't enough of these guys to satisfy the female population's demand of them.

 

Now, are your standards too high? I don't know. But that guy you talked about is a rarity. Guys are extremely rarely asked out, so this guy was clearly a desirable one.

 

I guess the best advice is to just wait a bit. You want desirable characteristics in a guy, so you'll have to be prepared to wait for a guy to come along who fits these characteristics.

 

I get what you're saying, but I don't think the pool of guys I'd consider dating is actually that small. The two main things for me are intelligence and common interests. Most of the guys I interact with naturally have stuff in common with me because I meet them through shared hobbies or classes. Then winnow those guys down to the top 30% in terms of intelligence. Remove 1/3 of those guys who are really overweight or in some other way unappealing. 20% doesn't exactly seem like a small number, especially when you consider that a lot of girls don't care about intelligence in men or the same interests I do.

[Jaytb]

My brother for example is 27 and has just gotten out of 4 year relationship.

 

Objectively, he is kind of cute but slightly overweight and he is pretty smart but not very confident or outgoing. In the few months that he has been single he had about 5 quite pretty girls fight over him. Text and call constantly to beg him to go out with them. He rejected them all, apart from the hottest girl of the bunch.

 

It seems like any half-way decent guy has truckload of attention, which is so depressing.

 

Then where's my attention? just kidding, I have a gf but no one else is fighting over me.

[Jaytb]

I get what you're saying, but I don't think the pool of guys I'd consider dating is actually that small. The two main things for me are intelligence and common interests. Most of the guys I interact with naturally have stuff in common with me because I meet them through shared hobbies or classes. Then winnow those guys down to the top 30% in terms of intelligence. Remove 1/3 of those guys who are really overweight or in some other way unappealing. 20% doesn't exactly seem like a small number, especially when you consider that a lot of girls don't care about intelligence in men or the same interests I do.

 

eh ok. how many are single of those 20%? And how many guys are in this group anyway? 20% of 5 is only 1

 

So why don't you try to meet guys in other avenues? there aren't going to be a lot of guys in your hobby groups and classes who are single, smart, and attractive so you'll need to open up some more avenues.

[shadowplay]

Probably because there are plenty of good looking women but not too many guys who are smart, tall, not fat, and cute face.

 

I disagree with this. I see attractive guys all the time.

[boogieboy]

I dont get answers to my questions?? Im trying to make point here.

[Jaytb]

I disagree with this. I see attractive guys all the time.

 

again I said tall, good looking, and smart (and single! don't want any married men! lol) all in one. I am sure there are plenty of attractive guys, I am sure there are smart guys, and I am sure there are single guys (obviously lol), but put it all together and it's a small fraction of the total.

[shadowplay]

I dont get answers to my questions?? Im trying to make point here.

 

I don't know what it is about me physically that falls short. I have a nice body (I'm thin but also curvy). I think my face is kind of average, maybe slightly above, but it'snot unattractive.

 

In terms of my physical requirements it's only that the guy isn't fat or doesn't have a really unappealing face. In terms of height as long as he's not shorter than me and 95% of guys aren't.

[SadandConfusedWA]

Also, Jaytb, I am bummed that things are not more equal. Why doesn't a girl that has kind of cute face, is somewhat out of shape but not fat and is smart get lots of attention?

 

I am just saying that guy with those qualities = WIN

Girl = completely dateless.

[Johnny M]

What I wouldn't give to know what it was, even if the truth hurt. I wish I could just ask a guy, but then I'd probably never get an honest response.

Well, you're going to get an honest response from me. It almost certainly has something to do with your looks. It's the only logical explanation.

[Johnny M]

I don't know what it is about me physically that falls short. I have a nice body (I'm thin but also curvy). I think my face is kind of average, maybe slightly above, but it'snot unattractive.

Post a pic of yourself and I will tell you if your self-appraisal is accurate.

[shadowplay]

Also, Jaytb, I am bummed that things are not more equal. Why doesn't a girl that has kind of cute face, is somewhat out of shape but not fat and is smart get lots of attention?

 

I am just saying that guy with those qualities = WIN

Girl = completely dateless.

 

I've discovered that most smart guys even don't care that much about intelligence. Usually as long as a girl isn't a complete bimbo and seems like she'd be smart she meets their intelligence standard. Think about somebody like Scarlett Johanssen who isn't especially bright or talented, but seems smart enough compared to the hordes of bimbo actresses out there.

 

I really believe it's mostly about appearance for men, even down to the kinds of clothes women wear or if they project confidence in how they walk and talk.

 

Average intelligence is enough for a guy. The rest is surface for the most part.

[boogieboy]

I don't know what it is about me physically that falls short. I have a nice body (I'm thin but also curvy). I think my face is kind of average, maybe slightly above, but it'snot unattractive.

 

What does thin but curvy mean? Where are you from? How long is your hair? Whats your height and weight? How do you dress? How many guys do you actually approach with the intention of flirting?

 

Also, Jaytb, I am bummed that things are not more equal. Why doesn't a girl that has kind of cute face, is somewhat out of shape but not fat and is smart get lots of attention?

 

I am just saying that guy with those qualities = WIN

Girl = completely dateless.

 

Her shape depends, out of shape could be a few extra lbs but still have a good figure.

 

If the figure isnt attractive, like no hips, no ass, weird shape, then to most guys thats less desireable.

[Jaytb]

Also, Jaytb, I am bummed that things are not more equal. Why doesn't a girl that has kind of cute face, is somewhat out of shape but not fat and is smart get lots of attention?

 

I am just saying that guy with those qualities = WIN

Girl = completely dateless.

 

haha you're whining that things aren't equal? how about guys who are smart but not attractive, they're dateless. How about guys who are attractive but not smart? Won't have much luck either with some girls. Good looking and smart, but no degree? no interest at all. Women want several things at once, while men want an attractive girl they can live with. Women want the top 1% of men, while men want any of the top 25% of women they can live with.

[shadowplay]

What does thin but curvy mean? Where are you from? How long is your hair? Whats your height and weight? How do you dress? How many guys do you actually approach with the intention of flirting?

 

 

 

Her shape depends, out of shape could be a few extra lbs but still have a good figure.

 

If the figure isnt attractive, like no hips, no ass, weird shape, then to most guys thats less desireable.

 

I mean that I'm thin in the right places -- thin waist, legs, arms, but I have nice, largish breasts, nice hips and butt. I guess my butt is the only area that falls short. It's a good shape but kind of small.

 

I have long blonde wavy hair, but lately I haven't been maintaining it very well. It's gotten sort of unruly and dry. I need to cut it.

 

My height is 5'5" - 5'6". My weight is 115 pounds.

 

I dress pretty conservatively, although I occasionally wear tight shirts that have some cleavage. I almost always wear pants, though, and my clothes are sometimes kind of bland. I want to revamp my wardrobe, but I almost see no point. I don't want to waste a lot of money and still get no dates.

 

I rarely approach guys because I'm scared of rejection. I generally talk to guys if they talk to me, but the conversations rarely go anywhere...which I assume means lack of interest on their part.

[shadowplay]

haha you're whining that things aren't equal? how about guys who are smart but not attractive, they're dateless. How about guys who are attractive but not smart? Won't have much luck either with some girls. Good looking and smart, but no degree? no interest at all. Women want several things at once, while men want an attractive girl they can live with. Women want the top 1% of men, while men want any of the top 25% of women they can live with.

 

But I'm a woman and I don't have standards like that. I just said I'd date an average looking guy who was reasonably intelligent and had some common interests. That's not the top 1 percent.