Should I still Ask her Out?

[laptopacc]

For the last about 4 weeks I've been talking to a girl, and for about the last 2 weeks I've been offering to help her with her math (we've gotten 100% on our about last 7 assignments), and we've been doing decent - at the exception of minor things like coming late to a time we planned to work together and not apologizing or giving a reason to me, but instead giving the reason to her friend, days where after class she walked off with someone else while i wait for her daily, or joking around with her friends and then turning back to me and then we continue to work.

 

Today i was going to ask her out, however within about 3 seconds (literally) of exiting the class with her, she got the attention of another guy and they talked, while i waited patiently for them to finish. Unfortunately it took a lot longer than i thought, and with a few seldom looks she never went up to ask what i was waiting for, or if i was even waiting for her. To end my awesome day, she and the other guy walked to her work together (it's on campus so), leaving me behind without a word - and not being able to ask her out as i planned, and waited for (I was all set, had the question ready so it didn't sound stupid, and full of courage - so i didn't mind waiting) - nothing.

 

I've put about a total of 15 hours helping her with math, but it's not like she asked or approached me, it's just been a hesitant "yeah... sure". All these were hours where i drove to campus though with no class for the rest of the day, or about 3 hours after the set time for us to meet up i would have class with her - and because she works on campus and her work is around her schedule, she's there all day anyway.

 

Should i still ask her out (it would be my first time asking someone out - but at this point i'm cautious - the main thing is i'm pretty shy and will have to likely wait until next semester before i have any chance asking someone else), or should i let go of the false hope that there's something here more than i'm just offering to help her with math.

 

At this point I'm not sure i even want to help her with math, as what ticked me off was that she apparently was helping him with math as well for some things (so i'm helping her, so she can [albeit slightly - going off memory as a quote "I told you how to do that!" after finding out he got about a 60% on a test] help him) - and one thing that i really hate is getting used - but at the same time, what if he's JUST a friend and i'm over-analyzing it.

 

I've put a lot of time into trying to help her, and she's very nice, and i would really like to ask her out, just at what point do you say enough is enough and take the hint that it's one sided. Out of the about 5 days we met up, a SINGLE day i felt went perfect (the other days various things happen, and usually very minor, but just seem like subtle unconscious hints, such as turning away from me as we work, a day with very little talking between us, goofing around with her friend then turning back to me and getting back on track on math, or her and her friend doing quiet whispers to eachother then giggling, or the two glaring at each other and then giggle - minor - and likely me just thinking too much about it - it just sucks to be left in the dark clueless if they're giggling about something i did or something off topic).

 

 

Edit: My apologies for this being so long, just trying to share the whole story from my point of view.

Edited October 21, 2009 by laptopacc

[Johnny M]

Sorry bud, but it doesn't look like she's interested in you at all. And the fact that you're acting like a total doormat isn't helping things either. It seems that she's just using you as a free math tutor.

 

For future reference, do not EVER act the way you're acting around this girl. Do not "hang around patiently" while she's talking to anther guy or to her friends. Do not drive to campus solely for the purpose of helping her with her math assignments. In fact, don't help her with her assignments at all unless she's already your GF. You sound like a typical shy nice guy, who thinks that he can win a woman's heart by being super nice to her and effectively turning himself into her servant. Well, I've got news for you. Nothing could be further from the truth. Girls absolutely DESPISE guys like that. She probably thinks of you as a total loser and wouldn't even be talking to you if not for the free tutoring.

[laptopacc]

Sorry bud, but it doesn't look like she's interested in you at all. And the fact that you're acting like a total doormat isn't helping things either. It seems that she's just using you as a free math tutor.

 

For future reference, do not EVER act the way you're acting around this girl. Do not "hang around patiently" while she's talking to anther guy or to her friends. Do not drive to campus solely for the purpose of helping her with her math assignments. In fact, don't help her with her assignments at all unless she's already your GF. You sound like a typical shy nice guy, who thinks that he can win a woman's heart by being super nice to her and effectively turning himself into her servant. Well, I've got news for you. Nothing could be further from the truth. Girls absolutely DESPISE guys like that. She probably thinks of you as a total loser and wouldn't even be talking to you if not for the free tutoring.

 

Alright, thanks

 

As i said, first time considering asking someone out so just figuring things out now

 

Looks like I'm trying to do things somewhat right, just in the wrong order.

 

Thank you again for the help though, will make next time easier ^^

[BG1985]

Don't overanalyze the situation. You also went out of the way to help a girl who wasn't even looking for help. Your post at least sounds that way. Just think of it this way. He who hesitates is lost. If you're interested in a girl, man up and ask her out.

[BCCA]

She used you for free help.

 

Any future dealings you have with women you are interested in, always think about what efforts your making vs. what efforts they are making for you. All this girl did was take your free help, didnt really care about being late, and bailed with some other dude in front of you.

 

You, trying to be the nice guy, let her walk all over you, and stood there waiting for her daily. She probably has next to 0 respect for you, and thats not the kind of guys that women date or sleep with.

 

Its ok to be nice, giving, and try to help, but once you see that the same effort is not being made for you...you bail, immediately and permanantly.

[Go_Figure]

In fact, don't help her with her assignments at all unless she's already your GF. You sound like a typical shy nice guy, who thinks that he can win a woman's heart by being super nice to her and effectively turning himself into her servant. Well, I've got news for you. Nothing could be further from the truth. Girls absolutely DESPISE guys like that. She probably thinks of you as a total loser and wouldn't even be talking to you if not for the free tutoring.

 

We do? Sorry, I don't agree with that. Maybe I'm an oddball, but if I knew a guy who honestly wanted to help me with my homework and was just honestly sweet, I'd find that very attractive. I don't understand how someone could despise someone else for being as great as laptopacc was to this girl. I also take issue with the idea that being "super nice" automatically makes you someone's servant. It doesn't.

 

For the last about 4 weeks I've been talking to a girl, and for about the last 2 weeks I've been offering to help her with her math (we've gotten 100% on our about last 7 assignments), and we've been doing decent - at the exception of minor things like coming late to a time we planned to work together and not apologizing or giving a reason to me, but instead giving the reason to her friend, days where after class she walked off with someone else while i wait for her daily, or joking around with her friends and then turning back to me and then we continue to work.

 

Today i was going to ask her out, however within about 3 seconds (literally) of exiting the class with her, she got the attention of another guy and they talked, while i waited patiently for them to finish. Unfortunately it took a lot longer than i thought, and with a few seldom looks she never went up to ask what i was waiting for, or if i was even waiting for her. To end my awesome day, she and the other guy walked to her work together (it's on campus so), leaving me behind without a word - and not being able to ask her out as i planned, and waited for (I was all set, had the question ready so it didn't sound stupid, and full of courage - so i didn't mind waiting) - nothing.

 

I've put about a total of 15 hours helping her with math, but it's not like she asked or approached me, it's just been a hesitant "yeah... sure". All these were hours where i drove to campus though with no class for the rest of the day, or about 3 hours after the set time for us to meet up i would have class with her - and because she works on campus and her work is around her schedule, she's there all day anyway.

 

Should i still ask her out (it would be my first time asking someone out - but at this point i'm cautious - the main thing is i'm pretty shy and will have to likely wait until next semester before i have any chance asking someone else), or should i let go of the false hope that there's something here more than i'm just offering to help her with math.

 

At this point I'm not sure i even want to help her with math, as what ticked me off was that she apparently was helping him with math as well for some things (so i'm helping her, so she can [albeit slightly - going off memory as a quote "I told you how to do that!" after finding out he got about a 60% on a test] help him) - and one thing that i really hate is getting used - but at the same time, what if he's JUST a friend and i'm over-analyzing it.

 

I've put a lot of time into trying to help her, and she's very nice, and i would really like to ask her out, just at what point do you say enough is enough and take the hint that it's one sided. Out of the about 5 days we met up, a SINGLE day i felt went perfect (the other days various things happen, and usually very minor, but just seem like subtle unconscious hints, such as turning away from me as we work, a day with very little talking between us, goofing around with her friend then turning back to me and getting back on track on math, or her and her friend doing quiet whispers to eachother then giggling, or the two glaring at each other and then giggle - minor - and likely me just thinking too much about it - it just sucks to be left in the dark clueless if they're giggling about something i did or something off topic).

 

 

Edit: My apologies for this being so long, just trying to share the whole story from my point of view.

 

Having said that, I do think this girl completely took advantage of your kindness and I find the way she treated you disgusting. I wouldn't ask her out if I were you. You should save that for someone who actually appreciates the time you spend with her.

[BG1985]

To the OP: Were you honestly interested in helping this girl or was that your angle for getting her to like you?

 

To Go Figure: This guy is sounding pretty desperate, and girls can smell desperation from a mile away. It sounds like this girl didn't even necessarily want his help, but he imposed. On top of that, how has she taken advantage of him? He's offering to help her and he hasn't even made a move on her. What is she supposed to do when this guy hasn't even asked for anything in return?

Edited October 22, 2009 by BG1985

[BCCA]

We do? Sorry, I don't agree with that. Maybe I'm an oddball, but if I knew a guy who honestly wanted to help me with my homework and was just honestly sweet, I'd find that very attractive. I don't understand how someone could despise someone else for being as great as laptopacc was to this girl. I also take issue with the idea that being "super nice" automatically makes you someone's servant. It doesn't.

 

The key componate to the example you used is mutual attraction. When a girl is mutually attracted, these things become 'sweet', when shes not, its just a free ride, creepy, or annoying.

 

So, being nice doesnt automatically make you a servant, but if a girl is not interested in you romantically, being nice isnt going to change that, and youre going to end up feeling used, even if it wasnt intentional.

 

Having said that, I do think this girl completely took advantage of your kindness and I find the way she treated you disgusting. I wouldn't ask her out if I were you. You should save that for someone who actually appreciates the time you spend with her.

 

I think he didnt know how else to approach her, so he went with the help angle, and she kind of made it obvious (though not vocally stated) that she wasnt interested in dating him or being romantic. And he went about it the wrong way all together, with the waiting, etc...

 

I think that there was just a miscommunication; neither one did anything to show they wanted more than a platonic 'you sit next to me in class' relationship. He tried the tutor angle, and she blew him off/made little effort to interact with him.

 

Were you honestly interested in helping this girl or was that your angle for getting her to like you?

 

Oh it was certainly the latter.

 

This guy is sounding pretty desperate, and girls can smell desperation from a mile away. It sounds like this girl didn't even necessarily want his help, but he imposed. On top of that, how has she taken advantage of him? He's offering to help her and he hasn't even made a move on her. What is she supposed to do when this guy hasn't even asked for anything in return?

 

What he did was make a 'covert contract', which always leads to dissapointment. If youre not familiar with the term, he only helped to get her attention/ask her out, not just to be a friendly guy from class. So, he gave to get, but only HE knew that. She just took it as free help, no harm there really. She didnt lead him on or otherwise 'use' him, he just didnt go about it right, because hes young and learning.

 

When it comes to romance, the sooner you make your intentions CLEAR, the sooner you'll know what to expect. You cant expect that she should owe you for your help; she could think youre great at math, but not want anything romantic to do with you, and thats not wrong or mean of her.

 

If she misled you, that would be another thing, but i dont believe thats the case.

[Johnny M]

So, being nice doesnt automatically make you a servant, but if a girl is not interested in you romantically, being nice isnt going to change that, and youre going to end up feeling used, even if it wasnt intentional.

Actually, being super nice and going out of your way to help a girl you're interested in devalues you in her eyes and decreases your chances even if the attraction is initially mutual. Sounds stupid, but that's how it works. A woman's thinking process goes something like this: why is he being so nice to me? must be because he's pretty desperate. why is he desperate? because he's a loser and no girl wants him...

[Johnny M]

We do? Sorry, I don't agree with that. Maybe I'm an oddball, but if I knew a guy who honestly wanted to help me with my homework and was just honestly sweet, I'd find that very attractive. I don't understand how someone could despise someone else for being as great as laptopacc was to this girl. I also take issue with the idea that being "super nice" automatically makes you someone's servant. It doesn't.

Women would never admit this, and they would all say that guys like the OP are "sweet", but the truth of the matter is that they wouldn't date a guy like that. At best, he'd get "friend-zoned". I mean, when was the last time you saw a shy, "sweet" guy with an attractive girlfriend? If such couples exit, they are extremely rare. On the other hand, there's no shortage of arrogant @ssholes who are dating hot chicks. That should tell you that an average female would take a confident scumbag over a timid sweet guy any day of the week. Nice guys really do finish last.

[BCCA]

Actually, being super nice and going out of your way to help a girl you're interested in devalues you in her eyes and decreases your chances even if the attraction is initially mutual. Sounds stupid, but that's how it works. A woman's thinking process goes something like this: why is he being so nice to me? must be because he's pretty desperate. why is he desperate? because he's a loser and no girl wants him...

 

I didnt say that you should be super nice and go out of your way. My point was simply (similar to your own) that being nice is not going to make a girl like you any more. Sure, there is being civil and not being a total jerk, but if a girl isnt interested, your niceness isnt going to win her over.

 

I think it also has more to do with the fact that women are used to being treated nicer, so a guy doing more of the same is boring. Being overly nice is usually a sign of desperation for anyone.

 

Women would never admit this, and they would all say that guys like the OP are "sweet", but the truth of the matter is that they wouldn't date a guy like that.

 

Some will admit it, but yeah, you are correct. They like having guys like this AROUND, but they wouldnt actually see them romantically. Bad boys have 2 things nice guys dont that women crave: they are interesting and challenging.

 

As women get older, though, they start to wise up.

[Johnny M]

I didnt say that you should be super nice and go out of your way. My point was simply (similar to your own) that being nice is not going to make a girl like you any more. Sure, there is being civil and not being a total jerk, but if a girl isnt interested, your niceness isnt going to win her over.

Yeah, I think I misread your post. Basically, the point I was trying to make is that even if a girl is initially attracted to you, you can still easily ruin your chances by being "too nice".

[BCCA]

Yeah, I think I misread your post. Basically, the point I was trying to make is that even if a girl is initially attracted to you, you can still easily ruin your chances by being "too nice".

 

Yeah, I actually agree with your point, I was just stating that the difference between a guy being 'sweet' or 'creepy' is mostly the womans interest. For example, if a girl really liked a guy, and he stopped by her work to bring flowers, that would be sweet. If it was some dude she was trying to blow off or was otherwise uninterested in, it would be creepy lol

 

So, sometimes when people make comments like Go_Figure, they usually do so from a 'guy im interested in' standpoint, which skews the answer. This girl the OP describes is not interested in him at all, so his sweetness or nice ways are wasted on her.

[laptopacc]

I tried to use helping her with math as a way to just get to talk to her a bit more. Obviously however i took it a bit too far, and probably should have ended it a bit earlier, but oh well, nothing i can do about it now - don't really regret it. Can't say a few bucks in gas and a few hours on days i have off anyway wasn't worth learning the lesson - not to mention we DID get 100% on our last about 7 math assignments.

 

Today i decided to wait and see if she still had any last hope. Purposely stalled a bit after class, just to see if she'd end up waiting for me. She didn't (although by what i said in the OP, no shocks here).

 

Will wait until she asks me for help now, in which if she does i guess i wouldn't mind every so often, but if she doesn't, no loss here - so I've pretty much moved on.

 

 

 

Although i started talking to a new girl after class as well (brief chat, nothing really notable) that is also pretty attractive and seems nice. Probably way too quick, i know, but just because i dropped the ball the first time doesn't mean i can't pick it back up. If after talking a bit more with her, how would you guys suggest i go about it this time? A lot of the comments made are that i was trying to be "Too nice", which i probably was yeah, but I'm essentially the exact opposite of the "Jerk that gets all the girls". Really most of what i have to offer is just being nice, i apologize a lot for things i do wrong and admit it when i do do something wrong.

 

And from the sounds of it she also could use some help in math as well. I'm assuming i let her ask, as to not fall into the same "Free tutoring" category. I guess i could just say "If you need any help feel free to ask" to give the hint that i wouldn't mind, but that could end up with the same "Sure, why not" I've become accustomed to. I guess essentially how do i offer to help someone in a topic we have in common (we both have the math class and math lab together), without getting used in the process - or is it really just something i have to catch my own as it happens. Helping her with math seems (to me at least - although we see where that's gotten me ) like a good way i could get some time just to talk to her and at least have a reason for doing so - or at least as a bit of an ice breaker - but at the same time you guys are saying I shouldn't be helping her until we're going out.

 

Maybe just offer to help her with math and try and catch the "Only a tutor" as it happens and back out - or would this just be me doing the exact opposite of what i should be doing entirely?

 

 

Thanks for the help guys, hard to catch my own mistakes if i never reflect back onto them - still learning.

Edited October 23, 2009 by laptopacc

[laptopacc]

Apologies on necro'ing this thread, but no point in really making a new thread.

 

We (The girl in the first post & I) started talking a bit today as well (Don't know, today i was just very "Meh" about everything and we got talking, whereas before I wouldn't doubt i was trying too hard, so I probably [or obviously] just have to act more casual).

 

In your opinions, any point in really perusing getting up the guts to ask her out still, given it's been a few weeks since anything has really happened? Or just drop it in a case of "Look how she treated you before"?

 

On a side note, I have taken some initiative and have stopped throwing myself out there for her, since that day if she wants any help she has had to ask, and it's been nothing more of a in-class "How do you do this problem?" She has yet to ask me to join her and work on math or anything, but that sounds more negative than it probably really is - she could be assuming "He's not asking, so he must not want to any more" where as before it was obvious too much when i did ask. Oh well, I think i'll hold my ground on that one and let her come to me, didn't mean to turn that one around

 

Any opinions on the topic, a simple attempt to not end up back at step one.

Tell me if I am doing something foolish still though as well, open to opinions ^^

 

Edit: And bearing in mind of course, i might still just be the "Math tutor" and nothing more, but I'm trying to stay positive in this post.

 

BTW: You can pretty much disregard my previous posts with "The new girl" - decided not to peruse it very much.

Edited November 13, 2009 by laptopacc

[callingyouuu]

You seem to have made loads of improvements since your first post. Kudos!

 

She still doesn't seem overly interested. It's not a matter of how she treated you before; she just doesn't see you in that way. When a girl isn't interested, just move on.