Trying to move on

[NotCloseEnough]

I've been with MM for about 8 months. From reading on this board for awhile it sounds like most of our story is pretty typical. We met at work, became friends, started spending lots of time together at and outside of work, then after drinking too much one night on a work trip we crossed the line. It should've ended well before that point, but clearly it didn't. That one night, that we both agreed was a mistake at the time, broke down that last boundary and within a few weeks we were acting like a couple- spending most our time after work and on weekends together.

 

Neither of us handled this correctly. We should've waited until he was fully unencumbered to go full on relationship mode, but we didn't. He finally filed for divorce about a month ago, but when it came time to make it official he apparently couldn't go through with it. His wife asked for a postponement and he agreed.

 

That happened two weeks ago and I cut things off immediately. He tells me the guilt is eating him alive and he has to make that right before he can be a good partner. He tells me he never expected to be in this situation and doesn't know how to feel about who he is as a person anymore. Part of me understands this. He lied a lot during this whole thing and made it much harder on everyone. I get the need to atone, but I don't get why he needs to stay married to do that.

 

All of our friends know about, and for the most part, support our relationship. Everyone has been hearing about the state of his marriage for a long time now. He and I and NC, but he tells them he's just trying to tie up loose ends so we can be together. I know the likelihood of this working out is minimal at best, but I'm having a really hard time letting him go. He was my best friend.

 

Everytime I try to tell myself he's clearly made his choice I have a small piece of me saying maybe he really is trying to work through his feelings the only way he knows how. Maybe it isn't complete nonsense and maybe some part of him is trying to get to a point where we can be ok. I'm giving him his space to do that. I know I can't just wait for him, but right now that's really all I want to do.

[mark clemson]

Well, it's not complete nonsense since he did everything but cut the cord. However, I think you're right to be quite skeptical - this could go either way and there are posters here who will tell you even after he divorces there is a chance he'll go back.

 

So, FWIW I think you're right to be very cautious with your expectations for this. It's apparently quite rare for the MM to follow through fully and also quite rare for the new relationship with the AP to work out long term. It may not help your emotional state much, but at least you know.

[NotCloseEnough]

At this point any reasonable assessment helps. I'm stuck between all the advice I'm getting from friends. A few tell me he's clearly a terrible person I should never talk to again, but most of them tell me we're meant to be together and he's just having a hard time adjusting to all the changes in his life. It makes it hard to figure out what the right next step is. For now I guess it's just keep NC and see what happens while not letting myself get to attached to the idea of a positive outcome.

[somanymistakes]

At this point any reasonable assessment helps. I'm stuck between all the advice I'm getting from friends. A few tell me he's clearly a terrible person I should never talk to again, but most of them tell me we're meant to be together and he's just having a hard time adjusting to all the changes in his life. It makes it hard to figure out what the right next step is. For now I guess it's just keep NC and see what happens while not letting myself get to attached to the idea of a positive outcome.

 

That sounds sensible.

 

He's not a monster, and he's not prince charming either, he's just another flawed person wandering around trying to find the best answer.

 

He may stay married, unable to make the hard choice and face the consequences.

 

He may finally go through with the divorce, getting so fed up with his wife that it pushes past his reluctance.

 

Nothing is certain.

[Beendaredonedat]

At this point any reasonable assessment helps. I'm stuck between all the advice I'm getting from friends. A few tell me he's clearly a terrible person I should never talk to again, but most of them tell me we're meant to be together and he's just having a hard time adjusting to all the changes in his life. It makes it hard to figure out what the right next step is. For now I guess it's just keep NC and see what happens while not letting myself get to attached to the idea of a positive outcome.

 

I think any "friend" that is supportive of you sleeping with and getting emotionally attached to a married man are not real friends but rather enabling magpies too afraid to help you keep it real.

 

If they were friends then they would have tried to persuade you from hanging out one on one with a married dude the way you were and they would have told you that the odds are way to high that he was just enjoying the carnal knowledge your affair provided rather than ever wanting to leave his marriage for you.

 

They would have also asked you how you would feel if you were his wife and someone at the office was helping him to cheat on you... which brings me back to the odds which are high that if he does it with you, he will also do it to you.

 

Take him down off the pedestal you have him on (he's a cheater after all that didn't take into consideration how he was jerking around two women) and start the acceptance that you are better off finding a good man that is free to be with you. You'll heal a lot faster from the with drawl of him no longer jerking you around if you do.

Edited June 4, 2019 by Beendaredonedat

[BaileyB]

I’m sorry that you are hurting OP.

 

I think you are right to stay no contact. With time, I hope you find something wonderful. Being involved with a MM isn’t it...

[heartwhole2]

Does he have children? And you are single without kids? Did he move out and then move back in with her? Does she know about you?

 

From my inexpert perspective as a BW, you have as good a chance as anyone of this becoming an official relationship. I think that, in order to feel OK with divorcing, he has to feel that he tried everything to save his marriage first. But the problem is that you can't "try everything" while you also have a girlfriend. So if he's genuinely going to make a go of it with his wife, then you have to let him go and start moving on. Then they have the space to determine if they are really too far gone and incompatible to make this work.

 

But it's just as likely that "making a go of it" simply means going through the motions, doing enough to silence the critics and pacify his wife. If he's conflict avoidant, then he's probably waiting for her to say she wants a divorce. That will absolve him of the guilt of discarding her for someone else. So I guess if this is the case, you are slightly more likely to wind up with him in the end, but you'll wind up a conflict avoidant guy who has a lot of work to do on himself.

 

In any case, you are much further along than most OW, who never even get to this point. The next few months will be critical and should give you a lot of clarity. There's no way to predict or control the outcome. For your part, I would get into individual counseling and focus on growing into the person you want to be, regardless of how this relationship turns out. Unfortunately, either path is going to involve stress and require self-awareness, self-love, and resilience.

[NotCloseEnough]

@somanymistakes I completely agree. He's not awful, but he's far from Mr. Perfect. I know he's scared and confused and it really could go anyway at this point. I think that's what makes it harder. If I could convince myself there was no chance it would be far easier to move on.

 

@beendaredonedat You're right that I've had him on a pedestal. It's eroding quickly. I won't defend what my friends did any more than to say they know he and I have been through a lot lately and I think they accepted it because they liked to see we we're happy, even if they knew we weren't going about things correctly. I imagine the support wouldn't be the same if anyone had ever met his wife.

 

@heartwhole2 No, neither of us have children. I want through a pretty nasty divorce last year so I was fully single when we started spending more time together. His wife does know. She's known for a few months now. But you definitely hit on a thing he kept saying to me- he felt guilty for not giving his wife a chance to fix things because by the time she tried he was too entangled with me to put any effort towards it. That part is tearing him up. I don't know if this is him really trying or just putting on a show to make himself feel better. And yes, conflict avoidant describes him to a tee. When we we're just friends venting about our relationship nonsense I'd always tell him to go talk to his wife about what he needed. Of course he always found every excuse not to. And I know this will almost certainly be an issue for him in any relationship. We've had a lot of long talks about the importance of open communication but that's not a trait that dies so easily.

[Beendaredonedat]

When we we're just friends venting about our relationship nonsense I'd always tell him to go talk to his wife about what he needed. Of course he always found every excuse not to. And I know this will almost certainly be an issue for him in any relationship.

Well, it seems that the majority of extramarital affairs start out with the MM or MW complaining about how crappy their spouse/the marriage is so if you ever begin having one-on-one date like outings with another married friend (I advise against it) and they start to use you as their emotional tampon regarding the state of their union, you would do well to tell them to tell it to their spouse and to leave you out f it and then distance yourself from them. You don't want to find yourself being left behind for yet another wife.

 

I'm sorry you're hurting as well and I hope that you've learned to not tear down personal boundaries so that you keep yourself emotionally safe from men who aren't free to be bonding like that with you.

 

Be well.

[Aloha123]

I think going NC and giving him the space to deal with his marriage is the absolute best thing to do.

[heartwhole2]

I don't know if this is him really trying or just putting on a show to make himself feel better.

 

It's probably a combination of the two.

 

And yes, conflict avoidant describes him to a tee. When we we're just friends venting about our relationship nonsense I'd always tell him to go talk to his wife about what he needed. Of course he always found every excuse not to. And I know this will almost certainly be an issue for him in any relationship. We've had a lot of long talks about the importance of open communication but that's not a trait that dies so easily.

 

Change is not easy. If I were you, I would be in counseling now, just for me. And if this becomes a real relationship down the road, I would expect him to be in counseling as well. You can do couples' counseling after you've gained more insight into yourselves.

 

You admit that your relationship didn't start the right way. You can't change that, but you can do the right thing now, which is to honor his request for NC and wait and see. In the meantime, do some soul-searching to see if this relationship was a healthy one that met your needs. We humans are wired to want to secure mates. It's an instinct just like wanting to make a baby stop crying. When there's competition for your mate, it can affect your perspective. We want to be the ones with the power and the choice, so we are fixated on securing someone who isn't a sure thing. But in a sea of available men, would he really be the one you choose? You already know he is conflict avoidant. How do you set boundaries for yourself so that you don't turn into a repeat of his current marriage?

[Flame Aura]

So he cheated on his married wife with you before he asked her for a divorce, then started seeing you regularly, and then decided to back out from the divorce?

 

 

Wow, and you are still thinking you want to be with him one day?

 

 

Sounds like a terrible person. One day he can easily do the exact same thing to you that he did to his wife.

 

 

Have some self worth woman and find someone better.

[elaine567]

Moral of the story, never make best friends out of married co workers who just want to get into your pants... and when the chips are down go running back to their wife...

 

I have a hunch it was not his wife who stopped the divorce...

[preraph]

Look, one of two things will happen here if you give him space or even if you don't. He will go back to his wife and stay there. If he decides to leave, he will NOT want to just be with you. Because now he is FREE for the first time in years and he will want to see what he can get. He's not going to jump right into commitment with you after just getting out of one. He will want to date around and get on OLD if he isn't already and ask out that woman he always thought was hot and all that. He's not going to just come be with you. He may string you along through all that -- and he figures you'll stay put too since you dated a married man, so why wouldn't you date an unmarried one who was dating?

[elaine567]

In my personal life, I've known plenty of male Adulterers and exactly 0 of them has ever wound up dating their Affair partners after Divorce. The vast majority of them don't get caught. Those that do, almost all Reconcile. Those that do Divorce, often go searching for someone new (other than the Affair Partner) because now, suddenly, they have a LOT more options. If there are 20 women who will sleep with me at the bar, only 1-2 of those women will agree to be an OW. Well, if I Divorce tomorrow, the other 19 women are now open game.

 

^^^^Overtaxed made a great point on another thread today.

 

This hankering after "freedom" and a desire to play the field which happens when men get newly divorced is why the mantra states - NEVER date a separating or a newly divorced man...

[stillafool]

Moral of the story, never make best friends out of married co workers who just want to get into your pants... and when the chips are down go running back to their wife...

 

I have a hunch it was not his wife who stopped the divorce...

 

I agree. If MM is in love with you, doesn't have kids, can't stand his wife; what in the world is keeping him from divorce? It certainly isn't because he's so unselfish that he'll deny himself and give it another chance. If he weren't selfish he never would have entered an affair so we know that isn't the reason. If he is telling the truth that she wants to put it on hold, so what? His love for you should make him divorce anyway. Lots of women with kids have been walked away from because their husbands were actually in love with another woman and couldn't be without her. My uncle left his wife and married another woman - they had 6 kids. No, it seems that this man is still in love with his wife, she's finally doing the things he wants and he wants to stay or; she isn't even aware of any divorce at all.

[stillafool]

^^^^Overtaxed made a great point on another thread today.

 

This hankering after "freedom" and a desire to play the field which happens when men get newly divorced is why the mantra states - NEVER date a separating or a newly divorced man...

 

It doesn't just happen to men but people in general. The last thing I wanted after my divorce was to settle down again. That took a while.

[somanymistakes]

On the other hand plenty of separated/divorced people are exactly the opposite: absolutely desperate to get married again as soon as possible, without taking the time they really need to evaluate themselves and their lives, figure out what they want from a partner, avoid their next relationship ending as badly as their last one did.

 

Dating someone recently separated is quite risky, but certainly not only because they want to 'play the field'. Some are clingy. Some are still trying to get back together with their exes!

 

Don't believe anyone who tries to give you a one-size-fits-all answer.

[elaine567]

Dating someone recently separated is quite risky, but certainly not only because they want to 'play the field'. Some are clingy. Some are still trying to get back together with their exes!

 

None of these traits make for great healthy relationship material...

[NotCloseEnough]

It's probably a combination of the two.

 

You admit that your relationship didn't start the right way. You can't change that, but you can do the right thing now, which is to honor his request for NC and wait and see. In the meantime, do some soul-searching to see if this relationship was a healthy one that met your needs. We humans are wired to want to secure mates. It's an instinct just like wanting to make a baby stop crying. When there's competition for your mate, it can affect your perspective. We want to be the ones with the power and the choice, so we are fixated on securing someone who isn't a sure thing. But in a sea of available men, would he really be the one you choose? You already know he is conflict avoidant. How do you set boundaries for yourself so that you don't turn into a repeat of his current marriage?

 

Not that it changes things in any substantial way, but the request for NC was mine. I think having me around made it easier for him to waffle, so I've exited the situation to give him the space he clearly needs.

 

I will agree though that he is not like the guys I usually go for. I do think his marriage had something to do with that. After my divorce I wasn't looking to get involved right away and given that he was married he seemed safe. It wasn't so much about competition as it was about wanting to spend time with someone without having to worry about the relationship part. We just got too close and by the time it escalated we we're so attached to the time together that we found ways to justify it.

 

At this point I don't even know why I'm holding onto it. I know there are tons of available men out there and there's no reason to get so caught up on this one. Logically I know that, it's just hard to get it to stick for some reason.

[NotCloseEnough]

 

I have a hunch it was not his wife who stopped the divorce...

 

 

Can't say that thought hasn't crossed my mind.

[NotCloseEnough]

I agree. If MM is in love with you, doesn't have kids, can't stand his wife; what in the world is keeping him from divorce? It certainly isn't because he's so unselfish that he'll deny himself and give it another chance. If he weren't selfish he never would have entered an affair so we know that isn't the reason. If he is telling the truth that she wants to put it on hold, so what? His love for you should make him divorce anyway. Lots of women with kids have been walked away from because their husbands were actually in love with another woman and couldn't be without her. My uncle left his wife and married another woman - they had 6 kids. No, it seems that this man is still in love with his wife, she's finally doing the things he wants and he wants to stay or; she isn't even aware of any divorce at all.

 

I wouldn't say he can't stand his wife, just that he (at least told me and our mutual friends) he was unfulfilled and becoming resentful. Either way though, you're still right. If he cared that much he wouldn't have done it in the first place. And if he really wanted to leave he could have.

[heartwhole2]

I wouldn't say he can't stand his wife, just that he (at least told me and our mutual friends) he was unfulfilled and becoming resentful. Either way though, you're still right. If he cared that much he wouldn't have done it in the first place. And if he really wanted to leave he could have.

 

I’m willing to bet they have normal relationship problems, and he’s unfulfilled and resentful because he doesn’t know how to be in touch with and express his needs.

 

So if he’s not your normal type, is that because you’ve finally figured out you’ve always been attracted to the wrong kind of men? Or is the fact that he’s not your type because affairs produce wonky and heightened emotions that lead you astray?

[NotCloseEnough]

I’m willing to bet they have normal relationship problems, and he’s unfulfilled and resentful because he doesn’t know how to be in touch with and express his needs.

 

So if he’s not your normal type, is that because you’ve finally figured out you’ve always been attracted to the wrong kind of men? Or is the fact that he’s not your type because affairs produce wonky and heightened emotions that lead you astray?

 

He has a very hard time expressing his needs. My impression is that most of the issues started out as small things that snowballed as time went on. I won't go into what he said about their relationship because even if I'm being generous to him and saying he told the truth I'm sure there were lots of things left out. And he chose to get married knowing what the issues were so obviously they didn't bother him that much.

 

As to the second point I honestly don't know. I spent time with him because he didn't act like a lot of the other guys I knew after my divorce. He didn't immediately try to parlay our friendship into something more because I was single now. I liked that we could hang out and I wasn't worried he was surreptitiously just doing it to get somewhere. But him doing that made me let my guard down. I'm sure people will say that was his objective all along and maybe he was just a little slicker about it, but that's not the impression I get. I realize that's not really an answer, but it's the best I've got right now.

Edited June 4, 2019 by NotCloseEnough

[stillafool]

You let your guard down when you decided to hang out with an unavailable man. You can't blame letting your guard down on him as you are a grown woman who knows right from wrong.