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So many clichés, so obvious... how come I cant stop it?


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Picture this:

 

- She: 28yo, engaged to be married in May-2019. Brilliant mind, always smiling, beautiful young woman.

Divorced parents due to cheating. Difficult father figure, she does not talk to him anymore.

Started relationships with men at 15yo. Exploring sex and mens' minds. Difficulty committing to a relationship. Long list of sexual partners (20+). Most guys older than her.

Engaged with a BF she has been living with for 4 years. He does not really know her past.

 

- Me: 50yo. Successful businessman with an international background. Cultivated. Strong personality. Physically fit. Married for 20 years to a beautiful, sexy and devoted wife. Occasional sex outside marriage, never crossing an emotional line. No remorse or guilt as I never saw these encounters as cheating. Sex with an occasional partner was like going to a nice restaurant: enjoyed and forgotten. Never lied to any of those women (but my wife didnot know of this). Enjoyed her minds and her bodies, mutual agreement. Now, with perspective, I see how wrong this line of thinking was and how it blurred the necessary boundaries, but that is a different story.

 

Tragedy hit our family extremely hard three years ago. We somehow rebuilt after that, my wife very affected. Me also affected, but I was able to move on quicker. An affair or recreational sex was totally not in my mind, all the opposite: I was very focused on my family and my business activities.

 

 

I put together a new business. First hire is this super bright young woman. She is pretty but that is not the reason for the hire. I was looking for a person with the highest potential, either male or female. I did not look at her with man eyes during the interviews, it was a professional goal. Moreover, I never pursued or have interest for young woman, she was just a bright girl to me, no sexual appeal or attraction.

 

Started working together very closely, enjoying the mentor-mentee dynamic in a business that was growing very rapidly, but with no personal agenda or interest on my side. One day, during a conference trip, we go together for dinner.... I suddenly realize she is flirting with me. I could not understand. How come? She is a still a girl! I stopped the situation and nothing happened. However, all of a sudden I started looking at her differently. My ego, my vanity, liked the feeding. From then on, day to day conversations included increasing, subtle flirting. I contributed to the mind playing but said no to her physical advances. I knew that further step was the door to a minefield and resisted. I was totally conscious of the danger; as anybody would guess, we ended up in bed some time after. From that moment, we got to know each other deeply and started the most passionate romance, traveling around the world with any business excuse. I found myself totally and unexpectedly in love with a much younger woman. She reciprocated. Never imagined living such a cliché.

 

The situation had a very strong impact on our lives. We lost our minds and started fantasizing about being together. We closed our eyes to the number of red flags and obvious consequences. We lived for more than a year in this limbo, in which everything was possible. We just wanted our lives together. Our SOs suffer with our sudden absence of minds.

 

Her BF pressed her with a decision for marriage. She agreed, postponing it for a year so that she did not really have to deal with the trouble... but the clock continued ticking. Her BF didnot understand her attitude. After months and months of apathy on her side -- our romance was full speed--, he corners her and asks for a change of behavior or a breakup. She is determined to leave him, but suddenly a spark of common sense appears and she decides to re-focus on him and go ahead with the wedding. This was last December.

 

I went from jealousy, to frustration, to relief for not needing to force myself into making a decision at home. At the same time, I developed strong feelings of guilt for how I was betraying my wife being in love with someone else. This was total betrayal. I see my wife as the sweetest and most honest person, to a standard that is far above mine. I have absolutely no complain with her, in any department. I have never being a man starved for sex or with a difficult wife. However, even recognizing that my wife is unique, I cant avoid being totally mad for this girl, when I know is the stupidest idea and that it does not withstand a minimum critical analysis. I have become insecure and developed a level of anxiety I have never had in my life.

 

In the meanwhile, the girl pulls and push in an internal fight, focusing on her wedding while being in love with a MM. This intermittent reinforcement fuels the addiction.

 

We both recognize the situation is extremely toxic for us, but specially for the people that love us. Two weeks ago we mutually agree to separate and forget abut each other to recoup our lives. We spent an entire day in a hotel room, both devastated with the idea but aware that is for the best. I ended up that day totally convinced that everything was over.

 

However, we have to talk everyday, we run a business together. To forget her, I would need a strict NC that I cant have. A week later we crossed the line and communicated again on personal terms. Two weeks later we have had sex again. The most absurd situation possible. We break up with suffering and drama only to fall again two weeks after. She is planning a wedding in three months time and at the same time in love with a MM. I am refocusing on my repairing the damage to my wife and at the same time unable to get rid of this no-purpose romance.

 

Absurdity. Potential damage everywhere. What a mess.

 

But the picture is not complete without saying that we are the happiest two people in the world when we are together. Anything of the real world cannot compare with the intensity of our intimate moments, everything else pales, life seems just an obligation compared to those feelings. We know all this will fade, we know we are infatuated and addicted to each other. We know everything will go, that life is not a honeymoon, specially me at my age, I cant hide behind ingenuity....and still, we are in heaven together to a level I cannot describe in words.

 

This is obviously going to end bad. We are not deceiving ourselves anymore on thoughts of a future life together. She is getting married and I am not going to stop it. My first obligation is with my wife and kid. I dont want to hurt them. No future between this girl and I, but totally in love with each other.

 

Anyway, I wanted to share this situation with a conclusion: I am an extremely analytical person, with lots of experience in life. She is a very intelligent young woman that thinks independently. Still, we dont know hot to get out of something that is potentially very damaging.

 

I guess my point is don't underestimate the power of emotions. They obfuscate your decision making, change your priorities. I like to think I am a determined and secure man that knows how to handle difficult situations. Well, I admit this one surpasses my abilities. If you can avoid it, dont put yourself up for this kind of test, you may fail as well.

 

Welcome to any comments

Edited by ManMar
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What_Did_I_Do

Chances are good you're going to get bashed here. But thank you for posting your story. It is so typical and anyone foolishly flirting with a MP should read this...especially the OW. This provides an excellent insight to the MM's thoughts and emotions.

 

Firstly, your poor wife. You could have subjected her to STD's. She - in your words - is a faithful, devoted partner and your ego needed a further boost by engaging in multiple trysts. How incredibly selfish. Being faithful, even after a family tragedy, is clearly not in your DNA. I don't recommend this often, but do her a huge favour and confess all or divorce her so she can be with someone who truly does love her.

 

Then, leave this 28 year old woman alone. You state how driven and focused you are in business, so surely some of that perseverence can be used to stop jerking her around so she can move on with her life (her wedding situation is another story but not your problem....).

 

History has a way of repeating itself. Once the dust settles from this most recent affair, you'll be back trolling for a new OW in no time. Counselling may be very helpful here. Good luck OP.

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That was nauseating to read!

 

First of all you are a serial cheater, the fact you could have NSA sex with absolutely no guilt really shows your true character.

 

You should tell your wife the truth about everything, give her the option to make an informed choice about her life. You have put her health at risk, she is obviously not even a second thought in your life.

 

As for the OW, you make her sound like some young innocent, she is a 28yr old lawsuit waiting to happen. What happens when her BF finds out and she throws you under the bus? Your great romance becomes harassment and coercion?

 

If you really want this to end you need to go no contact, she needs to leave your business. Are you willing to do this? Can you even do this legally?

 

My guess it won't end, you'll keep going till someone slips up so please just give your wife the truth now.

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Tip off the husband to be before he this becomes even more traumatic for him that his bride to be would be having an affair with her father aged boss all while planning the marriage.

 

Do the right thing for once and be an agent of truth!

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It's pretty simple: she has daddy issues. You're a replacement for her father. No wonder she gravitated toward you.

 

That said, man, you're a terrible person for what you've done to your wife. Why do YOU stay married if you've betrayed your wife's trust repeatedly for decades? That's borderline sociopathic. It's cruel. Get yourself into counseling right now and let your wife go.

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Occasional sex outside marriage, never crossing an emotional line.I never saw these encounters as cheating. Sex with an occasional partner was like going to a nice restaurant: enjoyed and forgotten.

 

With this thought, I’m not really sure what to say. Are you simply posting to warn others not to develop feelings for their affair partners? Are you sincerely looking for advice on how to end the relationship?

 

I feel badly for your wife. You have betrayed her time and again, and you don’t even have the empathy to feel any remorse. I feel badly for this other woman’s fiancé, he thinks this woman loves him and that couldn’t be farther from the truth... And what you have done is an abuse of power - you have engaged in behavior that would be considered sexual harassment in the workplace. There should be consequences for that behavior because it is completely unacceptable.

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You've got a beautiful sexy wife and a good sex life, but you're a serial cheater. Saying you don't consider it cheating, because its NSA sex is denial

 

How would you feel if your wife had been having sex with other men on a NSA basis?

 

Would you really not see it as cheating? I bet you'd see it differently.

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Thanks for your comment.

 

Interesting how you emphasize with my wife and with the OW... at the same time!

 

Obviously, my wife is a victim.

 

However, it is also as crystal clear that the OW is far from being innocent. She chased a MM, in search for excitement and did not stop until she got what she wanted. Moreover, she is keeping with a full-fledge romance for a year and a half on the face of her boyfriend.... what is more interesting, she is getting married in three months and at the same time sending me messages of "you are the best that has happened to me".

 

Yo may be inclined to think I have manipulated this young woman. Well, I have not. She is extremely smart and knows exactly what she is doing. It is striking how this side of the story is somehow... not relevant in your comments.

 

It'd be very interesting to see how you rationalize her behavior.

 

Anyway, I also wish you the best.

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As for the OW, you make her sound like some young innocent, she is a 28yr old lawsuit waiting to happen. What happens when her BF finds out and she throws you under the bus? Your great romance becomes harassment and coercion?

 

If you really want this to end you need to go no contact, she needs to leave your business. Are you willing to do this? Can you even do this legally?

.

 

She is young but not naif. Not sure how I gave that impression.

 

Thanks for the comment on the legal front, I have absolutely no concern in that regard. I know what I am talking about.

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With this thought, I’m not really sure what to say. Are you simply posting to warn others not to develop feelings for their affair partners? Are you sincerely looking for advice on how to end the relationship?

 

I feel badly for your wife. You have betrayed her time and again, and you don’t even have the empathy to feel any remorse. I feel badly for this other woman’s fiancé, he thinks this woman loves him and that couldn’t be farther from the truth... And what you have done is an abuse of power - you have engaged in behavior that would be considered sexual harassment in the workplace. There should be consequences for that behavior because it is completely unacceptable.

 

I guess I have posted my story

1) to organize my thinking and share with others that may be in a similar situation

2) to get some intelligent feedback, the type that takes into account that the world is not black and white 3

3) to have a woman view on how this girl can rationalize what is happening

 

No. I have not abused my power. My behavior is ethically wrong from many perspectives, but not that one. Sorry.

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It's pretty simple: she has daddy issues. You're a replacement for her father. No wonder she gravitated toward you.

 

That said, man, you're a terrible person for what you've done to your wife. Why do YOU stay married if you've betrayed your wife's trust repeatedly for decades? That's borderline sociopathic. It's cruel. Get yourself into counseling right now and let your wife go.

 

I am not a terrible person. I am a person capable of behaving ethically and unethically. I know the difference. I am personally very suspicious of those conveying some sort of absolute high moral ground.

 

You don't know the relationship between my wife and me. I can't be defined by the word "betray". It is much deeper and complete than that, for good and bad. But that is a different story, I have no interest in discussing her.

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Tip off the husband to be before he this becomes even more traumatic for him that his bride to be would be having an affair with her father aged boss all while planning the marriage.

 

Do the right thing for once and be an agent of truth!

 

I actually feel bad for her boyfriend... I like to think that if she is going ahead with the wedding it is because she loves him. I think she is confused but not a bad person. Live is long, this affair will end and maybe they are happy together. I dont have a crystal ball.

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I am not a terrible person. I am a person capable of behaving ethically and unethically. I know the difference. I am personally very suspicious of those conveying some sort of absolute high moral ground.

 

 

Moral and ethical people are ones that honor their oaths and contracts signed...the ones that don't are frauds, liars, cheats...etc. We are all human and fail at times, and the moral and ethical ones say mea culpa, repent and strive not to do it again. The fact that you are un-repentant, blame shift, and justify your behavior shows that you are not a moral and ethical person. You are not a victim to this woman, if anything, in the eyes of the law in civilized countries, she is a victim to you since you are her employer. I would say get ready for the civil lawsuit that you are going to most assuredly lose.

 

With that said, if this was your wife writing that, how would you feel?

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Moral and ethical people are ones that honor their oaths and contracts signed...the ones that don't are frauds, liars, cheats...etc. We are all human and fail at times, and the moral and ethical ones say mea culpa, repent and strive not to do it again. The fact that you are un-repentant, blame shift, and justify your behavior shows that you are not a moral and ethical person. You are not a victim to this woman, if anything, in the eyes of the law in civilized countries, she is a victim to you since you are her employer. I would say get ready for the civil lawsuit that you are going to most assuredly lose.

 

With that said, if this was your wife writing that, how would you feel?

 

Thanks for your comment, but pls assume I am aware of the basics of ethics. More interesting to have an educated discussion.

 

Btw, there is an entire brach of philosophy that for 3000 years have tried to answer on what really is ethical behavior. There are black, white and gray areas in which philosophers disagree. I am glad you see life in black and white, it should give you peace of mind.

 

I have not shifted blame for my behavior on anyone. I am a free person, I know what I do. I think I am doing wrong in many aspects of this episode.

 

Again, I have not abused my power. She chased me and got into my pants. It is irrelevant you think otherwise, it is also irrelevant the the situation might be perceived otherwise. It is just a fact. It was just a game for her. I am sorry to disappoint you, there are no legal implications for a number of reasons that I think are irrelevant for this discussion. So, sorry, there is not going to be karma from that perspective.

 

I understand that you sympathize with my wife. You are right, she is A victim (together with the soon to be husband of this girl). I recognize that. There is no much to discuss on this front.

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ManMar, you can stop it, but it will be hard to do since you have already had such ease in doing it in the first place. You will have to drum up some amazing will power to stop yourself and/or to resist her if she doesn't want to stop.

 

I mean no offense, but it seems to me that you are a bit defensive here, thinking you have it all figured out. I think the affair fog for you is this thinking that you will be able to end this without issue, that you were a victim of your much younger (read: impressionable) employee, that you can handle your wife (whether or not she finds out) and that she isn't a part of this story...

 

We are hoping to share with you the insight we've gained from reading about and/or experiencing affairs for years. No one, save sociopaths, comes out of an affair unscathed. Generally, A LOT of people get hurt in the fallout and no one can know how someone who is in pain will react. Married men have lost jobs and/or respect, betrayed wives have gone on warpaths, commit suicide, devolve into despair, other women scorch the earth and never trust again, other men get confronted and beaten...

 

An affair is a HUGE risk. The people here, in my opinion, are trying to get you to see from other angles so that you will choose to do what is best for you and your family, for this other woman and her family... I think you want to stop. We are hoping to convince you to do so.

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ManMar, you can stop it, but it will be hard to do since you have already had such ease in doing it in the first place. You will have to drum up some amazing will power to stop yourself and/or to resist her if she doesn't want to stop.

 

I mean no offense, but it seems to me that you are a bit defensive here, thinking you have it all figured out. I think the affair fog for you is this thinking that you will be able to end this without issue, that you were a victim of your much younger (read: impressionable) employee, that you can handle your wife (whether or not she finds out) and that she isn't a part of this story...

 

We are hoping to share with you the insight we've gained from reading about and/or experiencing affairs for years. No one, save sociopaths, comes out of an affair unscathed. Generally, A LOT of people get hurt in the fallout and no one can know how someone who is in pain will react. Married men have lost jobs and/or respect, betrayed wives have gone on warpaths, commit suicide, devolve into despair, other women scorch the earth and never trust again, other men get confronted and beaten...

 

An affair is a HUGE risk. The people here, in my opinion, are trying to get you to see from other angles so that you will choose to do what is best for you and your family, for this other woman and her family... I think you want to stop. We are hoping to convince you to do so.

 

Thanks for your message. I appreciate the interest and the good heart your words transpire.

 

I came across the board by chance. I have spent the last few days browsing other peoples' stories and the comments to them. I find it useful.

 

I have, however, noticed that a number of the comments, to myself and others, seem just projections of frustration and bitterness. The starting point tends to be a moral judgement, typically against MM and then against males as a gender, followed by blind empathy with the BW. I am not saying they dont have a point, but it becomes tiring very quickly, as cynic generalizations say more about the person that makes them than about the topic discussed.

 

I wish I had all figured out. I think I am able to draw an objective picture of the situations that I am living. I also think that I am capable of seeing the risks and the paths this could take. The conclusion is really obvious: I have to stop this. However, I have not been able to do it so far.

 

I disagree on the questioning of the true nature of love in affairs. I am truly in love with this young woman, and I believe I am reciprocated. I think that is real. Now, we are two people that dont live in a vacuum. We do have an incompatible future. We are both aware of that.

 

So, I am already convinced I have to stop. I am gathering the strength.

 

I have an internal fight. My selfish side, probably related to my age, tells me this is going to be my last real love. It is harder than I thought to give that up. At the same time, my ethical side, tells me that I have to do the right thing, letting this young woman go and be by my wife (who is really an outstanding person).

 

I should be able to put myself together. I have done it in the past with very difficult situations. For some reason, this time it is proving harder to do.

 

(btw, needless to say, English is not my first language)

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Again, I have not abused my power. She chased me and got into my pants. It is irrelevant you think otherwise, it is also irrelevant the the situation might be perceived otherwise. It is just a fact. It was just a game for her. I am sorry to disappoint you, there are no legal implications for a number of reasons that I think are irrelevant for this discussion. So, sorry, there is not going to be karma from that perspective.

 

 

Well, if you are in a western country it is relevant, and the fact you acknowledged your "power" just further makes the potential civil penalties even easier to pursue....it's called sexual harassment, and the cards are not stacked in your favor as the employer. It's a loser case to defend, and regardless of who chased who, your opinion, her opinion, my opinion..etc, it will cost you a money win or lose...you are in a bad position.

Listen dude, I'm not her to beat you up, I'm just pointing out some facts that are obvious to everyone but you.

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Well, if you are in a western country it is relevant, and the fact you acknowledged your "power" just further makes the potential civil penalties even easier to pursue....it's called sexual harassment, and the cards are not stacked in your favor as the employer. It's a loser case to defend, and regardless of who chased who, your opinion, her opinion, my opinion..etc, it will cost you a money win or lose...you are in a bad position.

Listen dude, I'm not her to beat you up, I'm just pointing out some facts that are obvious to everyone but you.

 

Thanks for your persistence and spending the time.

 

I insist - there are many potential real risks in the situation that I am living, but sexual harassment is not one of them, regardless of your skepticism. I know what I am talking about, the details are irrelevant.

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ManMar it is brutally difficult to extricate yourself from an affair. And even that is an understatement. It seems many people here (myself included) are projecting but it's only because we've been in that situation. Either on one side or the other. Empathetic words and gentle affirmations just won't work for those so thick in the fog to see the potential devastation they are about to unleash. Unfortunately it takes a swift hard kick in the *ss with a frozen boot to jolt most of us back to reality. Even then many have to hit rock bottom first. I was one of them.

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I see a civil lawsuit claiming quid pro quo sexual harassment, attorneys, your wife finding out, more attorneys and lots of money leaving your bank account happening with this mess.

 

If you think it won't, you're crazy

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I see a civil lawsuit claiming quid pro quo sexual harassment, attorneys, your wife finding out, more attorneys and lots of money leaving your bank account happening with this mess.

 

If you think it won't, you're crazy

 

hahah, your crystal ball is amazing, thanks for sharing!

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ManMar it is brutally difficult to extricate yourself from an affair. And even that is an understatement. It seems many people here (myself included) are projecting but it's only because we've been in that situation. Either on one side or the other. Empathetic words and gentle affirmations just won't work for those so thick in the fog to see the potential devastation they are about to unleash. Unfortunately it takes a swift hard kick in the *ss with a frozen boot to jolt most of us back to reality. Even then many have to hit rock bottom first. I was one of them.

 

Thanks, I understand the good intentions.

 

I made that point on projections because some people seem to think that their personal experience has showed them "the truth".

 

I see the point, I personally learn by reading other stories- I find patterns of behavior that come again and again, so those are certainly red flags to consider.

 

However, humans are not robots that all have the same reactions to complex situations. Also, people have different motivations and aspirations, that also condition our decisions. And not, not all men are troglodytes and not all women are naif preys.

 

Anyway, I agree with you that leaving an affair is brutally difficult. I am experiencing it first hand. I am in this destructive trap with this young woman and so far we have not been able to stop it.

 

An update on this craziness:

 

- We now recognize that there is no future for us. But I'd say, we are not 100% convinced, only 99% (I am working on killing the last 1% on my head, I think she is doing a better job)

 

- We both have agreed to give priority to our real future, and not the chimera that we have between us. She, to focus on her boyfriend and wedding. Me, to focus on my family.

 

- She is marrying this guy in early May. I know him, he is a good guy for her. I think they will be happy together. I was jealous at some point; for some reason, no longer.

 

- I am making an effort at home. I do care about my wife (pls save the lessons in this department, I know what you are going to say).

 

- And now, for the crazy side of things:

 

we are both coming to terms with reality and redirecting our lives and...at the same time texting each other ILYs (we dont live in the same city). An absurd contradiction that is really happening.

 

We had three days of non-stop passion last week. We are planning on seeing each other again next week. A total mess up, I know. Btw, sex is part of it, but there is a lot, I mean a lot, more.

 

She is going with her BF for a long weekend to find a new apartment (to add even more interest to the story, her BF has had a promotion and has just moved to another city, a thousand miles away. That is correct, she, me and her BF we all live in different cities now; they plan to get married and keep a LDR for two years... I prefer not to comment)

 

My plan: Forget about this mess for these coming few days. NC (I have already told her) and see if I am able to gather the strength to cancel my trip next week. I am 50/50 now.

 

We will see.

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I wish I had all figured out. I think I am able to draw an objective picture of the situations that I am living. I also think that I am capable of seeing the risks and the paths this could take. The conclusion is really obvious: I have to stop this. However, I have not been able to do it so far.

 

ManMar, many people write about how their affairs did not end until they made the distinct decision to end it. Others are stopped in their tracks when someone else finds out what's been going on and starts letting betrayed partners know about it. Then, there are those who stay involved until things devolve in the affair - they have to hit rock bottom (like after a long fall that would physically kill a person).

 

What_Did_I_Do stated earlier that it is brutally difficult to end an affair, and I agree with her. I felt guilt towards my xMM when trying to end it and after I ended it. I felt a great deal of shame, too, but ... I needed to be out of the situation, because for me, the negatives began to outweigh any of the blissful feelings I had previously felt. I was being driven mad, in a way.

 

It is better to end it before the resentment sets in. It is better to end it before an external other finds out about it and other people start finding out about it. You will not be able to control the fallout either way.

 

I should be able to put myself together. I have done it in the past with very difficult situations. For some reason, this time it is proving harder to do.

 

I felt this way, too, having suffered major losses when my parents died. I knew I could put myself together, but 1) it was different, because I felt I was giving up on being involved romantically and 2)I felt obliged to my xMM (whom was married to another woman and taking care of her!). Even though it comes across as "crazy" - that is how I felt. It took me many, many months to begin to unpack my thoughts and feelings. The process to become healthier and happier was difficult and arduous, and I am still healing, though I am infinitely better.

 

In your situation, ManMar, it will be better if you can find a way to work separately from your OW. You're the boss, so you maybe can work from home or maybe she can. You'll have to find a way to separate from her so that you can think more clearly AND you will have to change your thinking...

 

You are absolutely sure this woman is the love of your life. Maybe she is, maybe she isn't. The point is, you and she are unwilling to take the relationship further because you are both committed to other people you are both unwilling to walk away from. It is like agreeing to disagree. Perhaps being in an affair increasingly hurts you and you have to stop everything about it in order to stop the pain. It is possible you would benefit from the coaching session called End the Affair at GoAskSuzie. It is geared toward helping people see how to end it and why it is a good reason to do so.

 

You'll have to find the most amicable way to do it in order to try to control the fallout. And that is where LoveShack can be helpful, too. By reading what others have done, whether they succeeded or failed, you can gain insight on your situation (which you've already admitted to doing).

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I just saw how you and she don't actually live in the same city, ManMar. I think my previous post still stands; you will have to continue to change the way you are thinking about her and this situation with her. You already know you need to end it and why. You are fighting the urge, but you'll need to be stronger. Do NOT go on the trip next week! This WILL set you back. I honestly believe that aforementioned coaching session would benefit you. It does cost something, and I did not want to pay it, and I have very strong reservations that it would not help me, but it did. And I have listened to it multiple times. It wasn't the only thing that helped, but it helped me with my resolve. You also need support as you continue along the path, so I think LoveShack is also good for that...even though it might not seem like it...

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