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Do i give my MM an ultimatum?


hopelessbuttrying

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hopelessbuttrying

New to this... looking for advice.

 

Long story short,

I've been seriously involved with my boyfriend for about 8 months now. My boyfriend, who is married (separated). We met through work and got really close for the first year and then it just sorta happened. Neither of us had planned for it to come to this, get this far, turn into something so real. But it did.

 

Claimed that he and his wife just didn't talk anymore, he slept on the couch, didn't have sex, etc. i tried to understand and believe him. He moved in with me just a couple months in. She would send him texts all throughout the days, once she figured out that he was with another woman. he would never answer her, as it would just keep her going with the fighting. I don't blame her, but it would get pretty out of hand. for the two of us trying to build whatever it is we had, it was annoying.

 

Fast forward to now. We have been through a great deal of things. Things that brought us closer, and things that are tearing us apart. he speaks of marrying me, going on trips with his kids, loving each other when were old... but she is still there. she is still texting him constantly. but now, its randomly sending him texts about how she wants him. it'll go from how she wants him to come over to how she can't believe he's sleeping with, and living with someone else. again- he never or barely ever answers.

 

I'm beginning to get fed up with this. Every day she texts him something new and everyday I'm left wondering, will things ever become real? will they ever divorce? will he ever stand up for me? will he ever create boundaries between them? (keeping contact strictly about the kids). I talk to him about this all the time and he tells me he will he just doesn't know when, or how. because he feels bad. i love him so much and i know he loves me too, but its becoming very emotionally draining and I'm feeling like i am waiting around for something that may never happen... I don't want to leave him but what do i do?

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Apparently he wants to be still be married to her, at least for now. As long as you allow him to have you as well, he has no reason to change anything.

 

I wouldn't give him an ultimatum, I would tell him to move out and when he's divorced to let you know and you'll reconsider things then.

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He feels bad to divorce her but has no issues moving in with another woman and leaving her in limbo. Sounds like an absolute tool. And what is he teaching his children?

 

Tell him to move out and sort his life with his wife. When he's divorced and free to be with you then you both can decide a future together.

 

He will remain married for as long as you're there to enable his indecisiveness. There is no incentive on his part to do anything if you aren't demanding more for yourself.

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hopelessbuttrying

I understand the completely that is why I'm cracking down now and telling him he needs to make up his mind, stick up for us, show me something... I don't want him out of the picture. Im not going to tell him to go get a divorce then call me. A divorce could take a long time. I don't want to go from being with him everyday to not at all for months, or however long that would take. If he would just do SOMETHING. I would feel better. But apparently he won't...

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As long as you are unwilling to actually do anything about it (talk is cheap and meaningless) then nothing will change. His talk is cheap and meaningless too because he's still married.

 

There are really only two options. Show him you are serious (actions, not words) or resign yourself to the way things are.

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I understand the completely that is why I'm cracking down now and telling him he needs to make up his mind, stick up for us, show me something... I don't want him out of the picture. Im not going to tell him to go get a divorce then call me. A divorce could take a long time. I don't want to go from being with him everyday to not at all for months, or however long that would take. If he would just do SOMETHING. I would feel better. But apparently he won't...

 

So the alternative is to sit in limbo just as his wife is doing.

 

If you have no ability to empower yourself then your fate is in his hands. Know that your inaction will likely leave you waiting indefinitely to be chosen.

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isolatedgothic

Oh friend. I wish you could see what you are getting with this man.

 

He's okay with leaving his wife, but not really leaving her. He's okay with her begging him to come back. He's okay with her knowing he's having sex with another woman. He's got her, he's got you, he's got the entire circus hopping and dancing to his tune.

 

In a few years, you could possibly be her. She will be gone, and you'll be her, and you'll wonder what in the world happened, because he was the man of your dreams.

 

Here is the absolute truth. If he wanted to divorce his wife, he would divorce his wife. Don't tell me that she'll take all his money, or take his house, or take the kids. He doesn't care about the kids, or he wouldn't behave like this in front of their faces [he is modeling behavior in front of them and they are seeing this and probably hearing about it from their mother,] and he wouldn't do this to the woman who bore them - the woman he DID decide was worthy of marriage at one time.

 

Don't tell me they never have sex, and she's mean, and she doesn't understand him like you do. They all say these things. All of them. They have all collaborated together and written a book of excuses and handed it out to each other. They know the lines that women will believe, no matter how silly those lines sound to people on the outside looking in.

 

You are getting a man who thinks the world owes him one. He has no respect for women, he has no respect for kids, the only thing he cares about is the person who will scratch his itch, and right now, it's you.

 

If he wanted to marry you, he would. He would clear the path of all that stands in his way and he would marry you. He might possibly use you long enough to get him safely out of his marriage, and then he'll realize how very single and desirable he is, and he will move on. Keeping you around will remind him of the pain that he caused his wife and his children. He will reflect on that when he's all yours and "she" is out of the way finally.

 

However, I know that you will argue with my words, and I know you will not believe a word I say because your man is different. He isn't like all those other married and half-married men out there. He's better than that.

 

I just hope that somehow you will realize what a life draining mistake it is to get involved with a half-married man who is willing to do this to his family. He owns this and he is loving every minute of it. Two women begging for him. What could feed his ego more. You deserve better. You deserve a man who will marry you without an ultimatum. I don't know of any happy marriages that began with an ultimatum. Not one. Happy marriages are the ones where both partners want to be together and work hard to be together and let no man/woman stand in their way.

 

He isn't offering you that. I hate to see you go through this pain and waste time on him. He is no different from all the others.

Edited by isolatedgothic
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You are living with a married man! Your "boyfriend" is married. Seriously, you have been dating for eight months - most women would not be ready to move in with a guy after eight months, never mind the fact that he is still married!

 

His wife is blowing up his phone - and rightfully so. Her husband has moved in with another woman... What part of this is ok with you? How would you feel if you were married to him and he decided to shack up with another woman... I can well imagine that you would be blowing up his phone too!

 

I know I would be blowing up his phone, but not to tell him that I want him back... I would be asking him to sign divorce papers!

Edited by BaileyB
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She would send him texts all throughout the days, once she figured out that he was with another woman.

 

 

So, he lied to her when he moved out? Sure, give him an ultimatum. Just be ready for him to go back home.

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overtherainbow1
New to this... looking for advice.

 

Long story short,

I've been seriously involved with my boyfriend for about 8 months now. My boyfriend, who is married (separated). We met through work and got really close for the first year and then it just sorta happened. Neither of us had planned for it to come to this, get this far, turn into something so real. But it did.

 

Claimed that he and his wife just didn't talk anymore, he slept on the couch, didn't have sex, etc. i tried to understand and believe him. He moved in with me just a couple months in. She would send him texts all throughout the days, once she figured out that he was with another woman. he would never answer her, as it would just keep her going with the fighting. I don't blame her, but it would get pretty out of hand. for the two of us trying to build whatever it is we had, it was annoying.

 

Fast forward to now. We have been through a great deal of things. Things that brought us closer, and things that are tearing us apart. he speaks of marrying me, going on trips with his kids, loving each other when were old... but she is still there. she is still texting him constantly. but now, its randomly sending him texts about how she wants him. it'll go from how she wants him to come over to how she can't believe he's sleeping with, and living with someone else. again- he never or barely ever answers.

 

I'm beginning to get fed up with this. Every day she texts him something new and everyday I'm left wondering, will things ever become real? will they ever divorce? will he ever stand up for me? will he ever create boundaries between them? (keeping contact strictly about the kids). I talk to him about this all the time and he tells me he will he just doesn't know when, or how. because he feels bad. i love him so much and i know he loves me too, but its becoming very emotionally draining and I'm feeling like i am waiting around for something that may never happen... I don't want to leave him but what do i do?

 

How "real" is the "relationship" that starts this way? With one person still involved with another person? These things don't "just sorta happen" either, both sides know what they are doing, know it's wrong, and then get addicted, quite literally. The house built upon sand...

 

Can you truly believe anything he says? If you think it was annoying that his wife was texting him while you were "trying to build whatever it is you had", just wait until you are his wife sending the texts, and some other girl is telling him how annoying you are.

 

You want your AP to "stand up for you", what do you mean by this? Just curious what is going on there.

 

As for your question on boundaries, apparently he doesn't really care for them. The more blurred things are, the more he can get away with.

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So I'm slightly confused (honestly, not being sarcastic, it's early here and I've not been able to sleep).

 

 

My first thought was that you started dating a man who was separated but on reading again I think I have it right. You had an affair, he left his wife and kids and moved in with you but was too much of a coward to tell her this. BW has now found out about you and is asking questions which he refuses to answer. MM won't move forward with divorce and you feel slighted.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm sorry, but to me there's one BIG glaring missing element here. If she didn't know about you where the hell was he taking his kids? I'm assuming he has some kind of shared custody/support set up? Or has he been ignoring then since he left. We only know he has them because you mention he wants the two of you to go on trips with them. Never mind trips, what about getting that separation agreement in place to ensure the children are taken care of. A man's children should come first. YMMV.

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Trouble is you talk as if you can get rid of her, but you will never really get rid of her as she is the mother of his kids, she will always be around. This is not just some old gf you can avoid, she is right there in the middle of your relationship for years and years and years.

Unfortunately as the OW who "stole" her husband, she hates you and she wants him back. As he is not laying down the law with her regarding the XS texting/contact, I guess he is keeping his options open.

The aware BS is the downside to being the OW, as you are finding out...

His marriage was sooooo dead... yeah right!

If you hang around, she may be able to put a spanner in your works for decades...

 

If you give him an ultimatum, I guess he will scuttle back to her. I could be wrong, just the feeling I get here.

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I don’t think you need to give him an ultimatum, nor do you need to put your foot down about him sticking up for the two of you. If you had been a one night stand, this wouldn’t be an issue. But what has happened is that you got involved with someone who isn’t done with a previous relationship.

 

What you should do is bow out and give him the space he needs to clear his head. It’s not likely that things will work out between the two of you because he has unfinished business and even when he gets his head screwed on straight, it’s doubtful that the two of you can repair things after that. He needs to resolve his marriage then he needs to date before he gets serious about anyone.

 

Best rule of thumb, never date someone fresh out of a marriage or who’s newly separated. There are far too many issues to deal with. Then you throw kids in the mix, his guilt level is high and he is major league confused.

 

I know you think love is the important factor here but it’s not. It won’t keep this relationship intact, it will only cause you to hang on until you see no hope.

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I was in that situation once. Divorce was pending, I was still living home but in another room, the only contact between me and the exwife was for business and childcare purposes, we were in and out of court, conflict was high. I started dating almost immediately after the marriage crashed and burned, and that poor girl who I was dating who was obviously a rebound got the brunt of it.

 

 

My emotional state was all over the place and there was at least one time maybe more that me and the ex started getting along better and reconcilation was briefly on the table as a possibility. My girlfriend said something like "for your sake I hope you can fix your marriage but for my sake I hope you don't".

 

 

 

We lasted about 4 months at which time she finally said "You're a great guy but so not ready for another relationship" and she was right.

 

 

 

It is way too soon to get involved with this guy who probably has no clue what he wants who might even be having sex with his wife even if he told you otherwise.

 

 

 

Get out. Now. If and when he officially separates you can consider going back in but that's your only reasonable choice. As far as ultimatums go? They never work for reasons beyond the scope of this post. Just don't go there. And don't use the threat of leaving as some sort of manipulative tool. Just leave..

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These things don't "just sorta happen" either, both sides know what they are doing, know it's wrong, and then get addicted, quite literally. The house built upon sand...

 

I'd edit this a bit, at least ONE person in an affair knows what they are doing, is taking actions to make the A happen and continue and knows it's wrong. Sometimes it's both people, but very often it's unilateral; the classic example being the "I didn't know he was married" story that we hear often.

 

And in this case, you (the OP) don't sound like you're making the A happen. So he is; and you need to think about what that means. He's actively pulling another woman into his life while he's still in a relationship with his wife. He's taking actions to make you feel special and build trust in a situation where you're obviously not special and you shouldn't trust him at all. In short, he's playing you. Could this lead to a real relationship? Yes, it's possible, but it's extremely unlikely (best stats I can find, about 2% of A's go on to successful marriages). Because it's built from a foundation of lies and manipulation. You may not be lying and manipulation, but he is, without question, doing exactly that.

 

Entering an A is like actively deciding you want to be "played out" for most people. And for some people that relationship works, if you're just looking for some NSA fun, an A, as much as I hate to say it, is a good place to get that. If you're looking for a H/W though, you'd have better luck looking just about anywhere else.

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I read the post and the one thing I'm unclear of is if your MM was separated where as he living? Has he moved out into his own place and then moved on with you or was he still living with W and moved straight in with you?

 

As a MW with a MM I know that not all the MM says is always true and they tell a story to suit themselves always. So is there a chance he was not separated or perhaps in his mind he was but he hadn't told his W?

 

To answer your question of if you give him an ultimatum I don't think an ultimatum is good for anyone int his situation. This would mean you are either forcing him to do something that by the sounds of it he doesn't want to do or leave you. So that's not an ideal outcome either. But at the same time it would be hard for you to continue to put up with this.

 

If custody is in order it should limit the need for them to be in contact but hoi will need to sit down with him and have some honest conversations about setting boundaries with her that creates the relationship he wants to have with you. He should listen to how you are feeling and want to do something to help you feel better in this process too.

 

If you could answer how he came to be living with you and if he did in fact seperate and move out then move in with you it would help paint a clearer picture of why the W may be acting the way she is.

 

Regardless what you decide to do none of it is going to be easy so there is no quick outcome here. I know people will say go Nc with him until D but in reality that is a lot easier said than done, especially when you are already living together.

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You are involved with a MM with kids. You are not secure because he is not divorced. She will always be in his life because of those kids. Why haven't they filed for divorce yet?

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I understand the completely that is why I'm cracking down now and telling him he needs to make up his mind, stick up for us, show me something... I don't want him out of the picture. Im not going to tell him to go get a divorce then call me. A divorce could take a long time. I don't want to go from being with him everyday to not at all for months, or however long that would take. If he would just do SOMETHING. I would feel better. But apparently he won't...

 

What do you want him to do?

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SouthernIslander
I understand the completely that is why I'm cracking down now and telling him he needs to make up his mind, stick up for us, show me something... I don't want him out of the picture. Im not going to tell him to go get a divorce then call me. A divorce could take a long time. I don't want to go from being with him everyday to not at all for months, or however long that would take. If he would just do SOMETHING. I would feel better. But apparently he won't...

 

He obviously has boundary issues which is why he moved in with you and he is still married. This is normally the unfortunate point in the story where you’ll have to accept that you probably aren’t the breath of fresh air that will change that.

 

If you don’t want to leave the relationship..best to just stay out of it and just go with the flow quietly.

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I will never understand why some people in an affair think that marriage has so much power that it can completely change a person's personality.

 

Look at the way this man is treating his wife. Forget about all the excuses and rationalizations and look at his actions and behavior.

 

 

If you were married to this man, would you appreciate his actions? My guess woudl be "no". His marriage isn't creating the "monster" that is this man; actions. That was in him all along.

 

 

If you give him an ultimatum, sure he might leave his wife for good, but at the end of the day, what does that leave you? A man who you will always wonder about. Is that really how you want to spend your time?

 

In your shoes, any ultimatum where he had to pick between me and his wife would include relationship counseling if he chose to be with me.

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In this case, you (the OP) don't sound like you're making the A happen. So he is; and you need to think about what that means. He's actively pulling another woman into his life while he's still in a relationship with his wife.

 

Not sure I agree with this. She knew he was married. She had every opportunity when things started to “just happen” to say - “Whoa, you are married. We can’t do this.” She certainly had every opportunity to say “I’m not going to move in with you until you show me that your divorce papers are signed.”

 

Let’s be real here. It takes two to tango... this woman knew exactly what she was doing when she decided to move in with another woman’s husband.

 

Although I do agree, it says something about his character that he has done this without initiating divorce proceedings. Never mind, child custody. More questions than answers...

Edited by BaileyB
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OP, only you can evaluate his intentions here, and where he is at with his separation. My divorce took over 7 years, because my ex was bipolar and very unrealistic, but she did seem clear on the fact I wasn't coming back - and didn't want me to. I was soon (after a lot of dating) in a great new relationship, AFTER moving out. We bought a house together - twice. We moved to two different states together. As soon as I was able to finalized my divorce (which meant waiting out my ex until she wanted to finalize it), I married my long-term gf.

 

Your situation is somewhat different, but my point is that time frames for divorce don't always follow a nice progression, so you have to evaluate the individual and their situation. Boundaries are important, too - I had to set and enforce some with my ex. My gf waited for me, and we're both glad she did. YMMV.

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My boyfriend was in the process of signing his divorce papers when I met him. He too has an ex-wife with mental illness, a child, and it took two years for the divorce to be final - he had to legally force her from the home. I was very hesitant when we met but he was not separated at that point, he was divorced. Still, we dated for a few months when he decided that he had some things to resolve before he was ready to commit to a new relationship. We said goodbye, and went our own way. He contacted me a year and a half later - we have been dating ever since (it’s been 2 1/2 years now).

 

He says today that had he not taken that time to get his life in order, we would not be together today.

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OP your story has some similarities to mine. Although like everybody else it's no clear if you already had an affair when he moved in with you.

 

My bf didn't immediately move in with me BUT when he moved out he always claimed there was nobody else to his exW. She begged and begged and she thought that there was still a chance to fix things until she realised I actually existed. Then she became angry and they went NC (or close to it for a month). Like you I always wondered why he didn't initiate divorce proceedings, but everything was SO public and they fought so much that I knew there was no way he was going back to her. He always claimed it she had to, as it has to be for adultery as he didn't have the heart to blame her for the end of their marriage. After what it felt like six months after DDay she finally filed for divorce. I rarely spoke about it (I think maybe once?) But I was never too bothered. His family knew about me and once they met me they were super welcoming and that gave me lots of reassurance.

Today we're viewing a house where hopefully we can all move in to it (the 5 of us!) So my advice would be to be patient if you trust him. I only doubted his intentions once very early in our relationship, and that might what made all the difference

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Have him move out.

 

He needs to finalize his divorce and DATE you.

 

You've made it too easy for him to just use you.

 

Is he paying rent money to you?

 

IF he intends to get divorced - he will take action to get it done.

 

In the mean time - it may not be what he really wants.

 

So start being busy...make him ask you out and take you out if he's interested in you...he should be making effort to make sure you feel special... you're making it too easy for him to make you feel "not special".

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