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After D-Day. NC over. But a question.


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LondonFair

A few weeks out of D-Day. MM officially broke NC and we resume contact (no f2f as that’s too risky still). Communication from him is as frequent as prior to DDay. But he’s not calling me any of the pet names he used to before.

 

To be honest, it’s clear that he cares about me and does not want to lose me.

But why do you think he’s not calling me by these sweet names?

It is guilt?

 

I want to ask him but I think maybe it’s all too fresh still and I don’t want to push him.

 

He’s tells me misses me a lot. And I believe him.

 

It’s just that it hasn’t been as flirty, dirty and somewhat less intimate as before.

 

What do you guys think?

 

*We’ve been together for 2-1/2 years.

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Ok I'll bite and take a crack at this.

 

I think your leading yourself down the path to hell (figuratively). I've looked up your old posts and fidelity seems to not matter at all to you. While I'm not completely against open relationships I feel that most times it's signs of issues.

 

From what I can tell you were at least honest with everyone involved, so that's a good thing. Well most everyone. Your AP's wife deserves truth as well. Your content to destroy her life or at least be a party to it.

 

Ok I'm guessing you have gone from one messed up relationship to another and even possibly have some childhood trauma not being dealt with. I believe that's maybe part of the reason you can't see this relationship you currently have as the poisen it truly is.

 

I'll let you in on a not so secret about us men who cheat. ESPECIALLY married men.

 

WE DON'T THINK YOUR SPECIAL. You are NOT the love of his life. You are NOT a priority in his life. All he is doing is maintaining the ILLUSION of love to keep you hooked.

 

Why keep you hooked? SEX. It's as simple as that. Men want sex and use emotion to get it. It's not the same with women usually. Sure they enjoy sex, but the order is flipped. Usually women use sex to try to get emotion from their partner.

 

As a guy I can tell you right now that if he loved you he wouldn't be married currently. He would be with you. Not keeping you on tenterhooks.

 

I'm going to tell you what basicly every man who has ever talked with me or around me about their affair partner has said about those affair partners. it goes something like this usually.

 

"Man she was sooooo easy. Barely had to put any effort in. Yeah she's crazy for my dick. She can't get enough! Hahaha! Yeah bro She is HOT! Take a look at these pictures. Here's one where she spreads her pussy lips!! Man what a slut! She is so stupid!"

 

I have honestly never seen one of them say their ap is a stand up lady. Moral kind smart. None of that. It's a big game to them. Most women think they are beating the system and found the ONE MARRIED GUY who isn't just messing around. Sadly they are 99 out of a hundred times just ****ing wrong.

 

So let me cut to the chase. If you just want to ****. That's what you will get. If you want to start talking emotion and a future.... don't hold your breath. He will likely only put in just enough effort to keep you in his bed as his **** toy. If the effort becomes too much and outweighs the benefit you will get tossed away.

 

About the change in tone.... could be plenty of reasons. Maybe he is growing a moral compass. Maybe he thinks the messages might be found and wants to keep them as pg as possible to mitigate any extra damage if found out.

 

There is also the theory that now that his affair is known by his wife the luster is off the Apple. It's true for some people that the affair only stays alive as long as the secret does. Once the affair comes to light it loses its appeal. Loses its wow factor and taboo eroticism. Sometimes the secret is more important than having the affair in the first place to them.

 

Honestly I think your time is better spent finding out why you can't handle or don't want fidelity, but even more importantly fixing whatever it is in yourself that said it was a good idea to become involved with a vile man who cheats and lies and manipulates someone he swore to love. Don't you see that for the sick and twisted thing it is?

 

Oh also I wouldn't believe a word he says about his wife or the state of their marriage. Cheaters lie. Not only to their spouse but many times even to their ap. The lies are almost always along the lines of "we are barely even married. I only stay for the kids. We don't have sex anymore. I never loved her." Moral off the story once again is he will tell you whatever he needs to to get his "fix" :sick:

 

Op.... gently. Do you have validation issues? What I mean is do you seek out self worth in the opinion and attraction that men offer? Do you weigh your value as a sexual/attractive person based on how many people or what certain people think about You?

 

Getting compliments and being attractive to those you're attracted to is nice. I enjoy a little compliment or a girl noticing me closely as well, but the feeling shouldn't be a need. Just a nice thing to brighten my day a bit that doesn't really matter in the long run.

 

Most of the people I see on this board, either cheaters or other men/women have huge validation or FOO issues. Or have been sexually abused. Could any of that apply for you?

 

If I'm barking up the wrong tree just tell me, but honestly this guy and what he thinks/feels is the least of your problems. For your sake I hope he dumps you. It would be for the best. Actually YOU dumping HIM would be the best way, but your probably not even close to ready for that.

Edited by Adotta
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I think that his wife found out about the affair and he chose to stay in his marriage. That would be all that I needed to know.

 

Of course, he misses you... he misses the excitement of the elicit affair, the dirty sex, and the adoration of his affair partner. That is as intoxicating for him as it is for you, although likely for a different reason.

 

My friend, two and a half years of your life wasted on a man who can offer you nothing but a few text messages and secret meetings. I would like to think that d-day is a moment for introspection, a time to reevaluate your life and ask the hard questions like "Do I want to continue to be complicit in hurting another woman by sleeping with her husband" or "Why do I not think that I deserve more for my life?" How much more of your life are you going to waste on this dead end relationship...

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It makes him feel less guilty. If he's not calling you the sweet names he feels like he's not leading you on and so your decision to keep seeing him is all on you. And maybe saving the sweet names for his wife also helps him feel his affair isn't THAT bad.

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bathtub-row

He knows that it has become apparent that he’s staying in his marriage and will dump you if it becomes necessary. He’s wondering just how long you’ll put up with this crap because he knows he never would if he were on the receiving end of it. The more you engage him, the more he loses respect for you, while knowing he’ll get you back in the sack eventually. He also feels guilty for using pet names but his guilt will eventually dissolve and you’ll be right back where you were before.

 

The problem is, you’re placing too much importance on him not wanting to lose contact with you. You’re a side dish but you’ll never hold the importance that his wife and family does. Welcome to the world of being the OW. Oh, and resuming contact after D Day is extremely common. I’m sure you think this is the love of your life but he’s running this like a playbook.

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He’s wondering just how long you’ll put up with this crap because he knows he never would if he were on the receiving end of it.

 

I’m sure you think this is the love of your life but he’s running this like a playbook.

 

OP, just read these two sentences again... They are so true.

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D-Day probably made him realize he still wants to keep his wife. He's probably telling her he loves her. How does he easily then say the same thing to you?

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whichwayisup

Only imagine what he's telling his wife, that he loves her and that there is no contact with you. He's still LYING to her and he's using you as an ego feed. Selfishly, not maliciously. This MM is trying to fix things with his wife yet he is keeping you on a string.

 

The best thing you can do for yourself is tell him to stop contacting you, that the A is over and you're done. If you hang onto him and allow him to dangle carrots and give you hope, you'll get hurt and possibly have to face his wife (because chances are she will find out you two are in contact again) and her wraith. Be prepared to hear things that he's told her about you (lies) like you chased him and won't leave him alone. Many MM throw their ex OW under the bus after DDAY.

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Based on her silence and the fact that she has resumed contact with her married man after d-day, it would seem that she has no plans to end this affair.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, Londonfair.

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It makes him feel less guilty. If he's not calling you the sweet names he feels like he's not leading you on and so your decision to keep seeing him is all on you. And maybe saving the sweet names for his wife also helps him feel his affair isn't THAT bad.

 

I think this is probably the case here.

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Dreamwalker17

He is carefully testing waters and trying to see if you're too pissed that after D-Day he is staying with his wife but still wants piece on a side.

 

Telling you how much he loves you after clearly he is not going to leave his wife even after Dday when all the cards are on a table, shows you exactly what kind of "love" it is.

 

Please get angry.

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Not again! Rule 1 for MM in an affair is that it’s almost always easier— and certainly cheaper—to keep the AP you have than it is to find, groom, and seduce a new AP.

 

You are not the first I’ve given this lecture to, and since history always repeTs itself, you probably aren’t the last.

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Hi guys.

 

Apologies for not being forthcoming with a lot of background information.

I am a MOW. Neither myself or MM have plans to leave our spouses.

 

We had a really good conversation last night. He explained that he feels timid about the terms of endearment with me. And that he doesn’t know how to be at this moment in time. I understand, I let him know. And that how ever he feels is how he’s supposed to feel.

He tells me he loves me.

 

He resumed with the familiar sweetness today.

 

Thanks, you guys for chiming in, I appreciate all your comments.

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Hi guys.

 

Apologies for not being forthcoming with a lot of background information.

I am a MOW. Neither myself or MM have plans to leave our spouses.

 

We had a really good conversation last night. He explained that he feels timid about the terms of endearment with me. And that he doesn’t know how to be at this moment in time. I understand, I let him know. And that how ever he feels is how he’s supposed to feel.

He tells me he loves me.

 

He resumed with the familiar sweetness today.

 

Thanks, you guys for chiming in, I appreciate all your comments.

 

As someone who has been in your shoes before

an OW who had to learn an ugly lesson in an ugly way,

 

it breaks my heart to read your last response.

 

You are so deep--utterly deep in your mirage and affair fog, that no matter who says what here you don't even have the slightest clue about how shamelessly predictable your and MM's actions have been so far and how predictably we all can see where you will end up.

 

Only suggestion I can make is:

 

Please READ as many posts on this site as you can.

Your story, your MM, his words, his actions are all word-for-word identical to what all of us have already gone through.

 

Just like me, just like everyone else like you and I, I know

you don't let go--you are so helplessly in love that you can't see anything right now.

 

But no matter what,

he will love his wife and never YOU.

You will be his mistress and that's all.

 

He is hurting you, LondonFair,

and you are loving him for it.

And he will continue to hurt you until you have nothing left in you but a lifeless shell.

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Hi guys.

 

Apologies for not being forthcoming with a lot of background information.

I am a MOW. Neither myself or MM have plans to leave our spouses.

 

We had a really good conversation last night. He explained that he feels timid about the terms of endearment with me. And that he doesn’t know how to be at this moment in time. I understand, I let him know. And that how ever he feels is how he’s supposed to feel.

He tells me he loves me.

 

He resumed with the familiar sweetness today.

 

Thanks, you guys for chiming in, I appreciate all your comments.

 

God bless. Your fantasy life will continue for a while longer...

 

Your lack of remorse for the betrayal and pain that you are/will cause your families is stunning.

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whichwayisup
Hi guys.

 

Apologies for not being forthcoming with a lot of background information.

I am a MOW. Neither myself or MM have plans to leave our spouses.

 

We had a really good conversation last night. He explained that he feels timid about the terms of endearment with me. And that he doesn’t know how to be at this moment in time. I understand, I let him know. And that how ever he feels is how he’s supposed to feel.

He tells me he loves me.

 

He resumed with the familiar sweetness today.

 

Thanks, you guys for chiming in, I appreciate all your comments.

 

Does your husband know of the affair? If not, be prepared for MM's wife to do some digging and she'll probably contact your husband to expose the affair to him. You may change your tune once you see the pain and loss of respect from your husband when he finds out. You're playing with fire and risking a lot just for a side fling.

 

Life at home as you know it will change forever.

 

What's your end game here? Innocent hearts are involved here and don't deserve this.

 

Do you have children? What about them and their lives?

Edited by whichwayisup
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Same question. What's your plan? Does husband know? It seems like early threads of yours talked about open relationships, but no mention of a husband. I'm Kinda shocked you failed to mention him up to now. Is he just an after thought to You? Lovely relationship you two must have.

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Passionfruit500
Same question. What's your plan? Does husband know? It seems like early threads of yours talked about open relationships, but no mention of a husband. I'm Kinda shocked you failed to mention him up to now. Is he just an after thought to You? Lovely relationship you two must have.

 

 

Similar questions from me..what are their plans? After having lived this double -reality for 2,5 yrs and no progress..and seemingly they are keeping it up.

But in her opening post indicates that she is still in a different level, in affair fog, as her biggest problem was not how to go on or thinking about the long term effect etc etc... but his MM doesn't call her those pet names.

Sorry, not in the position to judge anybody, I went through my soul killing lessons as well, but after having read many stories here and now reading that after D-day someone's core issue is the lack of MM calling her those sweetis names, hmm..

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I'll let you in on a not so secret about us men who cheat. ESPECIALLY married men.

 

WE DON'T THINK YOUR SPECIAL. You are NOT the love of his life. You are NOT a priority in his life. All he is doing is maintaining the ILLUSION of love to keep you hooked.

 

Why keep you hooked? SEX. It's as simple as that. Men want sex and use emotion to get it. It's not the same with women usually. Sure they enjoy sex, but the order is flipped. Usually women use sex to try to get emotion from their partner.

 

Wow. Not much to add to this because it basically has everything you need to know in it. But I'll color the lines in a little bit.. I'm a BH, and can tell you that what was said above applied for me EVEN WHEN I was single. Married/looking for something on the side? It's going to apply nearly every time.

 

And I'm not one to judge people, if this is what you want; the sex is mindblowing and that part makes you happy, well, you have to weigh that against how much you'll hurt other people and decide if your happiness is worth the pain you will cause. Usually it's not, but, I suppose in some situations it could be. But the thing you cannot/should not do is imagine your "future happiness" and weigh that against the pain you are in/causing now. Because your future happiness is almost certain not to come; if you're looking for a relationship, you're not in the right line. If you're looking for respect, caring, "real emotions", a potential life partner.. Basically anything beyond sex, you are not in the right line. Yes, you're probably using sex to get emotion, but, what you're not realizing is that men (myself included) and especially men who have A's are professional level at faking those emotions to get sex. You are getting counterfeit dollars in return for your real gold.

 

Trust me, when this blows up, you'll see the "real emotions" come out. As you become the harlot who chased him for years, the reason his life is hell now, the person he hated, but you just made sex so easy he couldn't say no. And there's a very good chance he'll say all that, and more, about you to his W. His W is the one who matters to him, you are a distraction and enjoyable "hobby" of his. But the concept of leaving his W for you; I suspect if he's anything like the men I know, is so far from his mind as to occupy the same place as trying to determine the physics behind flying pigs.

 

I'm going to tell you what basicly every man who has ever talked with me or around me about their affair partner has said about those affair partners. it goes something like this usually.

 

"Man she was sooooo easy. Barely had to put any effort in. Yeah she's crazy for my dick. She can't get enough! Hahaha! Yeah bro She is HOT! Take a look at these pictures. Here's one where she spreads her pussy lips!! Man what a slut! She is so stupid!"

 

I have honestly never seen one of them say their ap is a stand up lady. Moral kind smart. None of that. It's a big game to them. Most women think they are beating the system and found the ONE MARRIED GUY who isn't just messing around. Sadly they are 99 out of a hundred times just ****ing wrong.

 

And this is the really ****ty part, because I've seen this too, and, before my W's A, it wasn't my favorite thing, but it really didn't bother me. I figured these women knew what they were getting into when they took the role of the OW, and hey, they were probably saying the same things to their friends about their AP's. I was dead wrong. The men I know who have or had AP's look at them with disdain. They are a joke to be shared among their friends. Their pictures are the fodder for group text messages (seriously). I, like the OP of this, have NEVER seen a man "stand up" for an AP. The best is probably "she s**ks a mean d**k" or some other sexual characteristic of her that's notable. And honestly, usually it's not even that; it's a combo of "she's OK" and "she's easy enough, not too much work, and I get some sex on the side". AP's are not selected for their awesomeness, they are selected because they said yes; if they hadn't, the MM I know would have moved on the next one.

 

Please.. Please, I beg you, wake up. If you want to look at it differently, statistics has an answer for us; about 1-3% of A's (depending on the source) go onto marriage. And that's marriages often result in D. Couple that with A's in general are under reported (and marriage is not, it's a knowable number) and you have almost no chance of winding up married to your AP. It's like playing Russian roulette with a semi-auto, you're gonna get shot every time until the gun is empty. If sex isn't your goal, this is not a game that you want to play. If sex is your goal, then ask your H for an open marriage, I suspect he'd also like to at least know so he can have additional partners or decide that's a deal breaker for him. But unilaterally opening the marriage and not letting him know is grossly unfair to him.

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ladydesigner
Hi guys.

 

Apologies for not being forthcoming with a lot of background information.

I am a MOW. Neither myself or MM have plans to leave our spouses.

 

We had a really good conversation last night. He explained that he feels timid about the terms of endearment with me. And that he doesn’t know how to be at this moment in time. I understand, I let him know. And that how ever he feels is how he’s supposed to feel.

He tells me he loves me.

 

He resumed with the familiar sweetness today.

 

Thanks, you guys for chiming in, I appreciate all your comments.

 

Wash, rinse, repeat

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Wow. Not much to add to this because it basically has everything you need to know in it. But I'll color the lines in a little bit.. I'm a BH, and can tell you that what was said above applied for me EVEN WHEN I was single. Married/looking for something on the side? It's going to apply nearly every time.

 

And I'm not one to judge people, if this is what you want; the sex is mindblowing and that part makes you happy, well, you have to weigh that against how much you'll hurt other people and decide if your happiness is worth the pain you will cause. Usually it's not, but, I suppose in some situations it could be. But the thing you cannot/should not do is imagine your "future happiness" and weigh that against the pain you are in/causing now. Because your future happiness is almost certain not to come; if you're looking for a relationship, you're not in the right line. If you're looking for respect, caring, "real emotions", a potential life partner.. Basically anything beyond sex, you are not in the right line. Yes, you're probably using sex to get emotion, but, what you're not realizing is that men (myself included) and especially men who have A's are professional level at faking those emotions to get sex. You are getting counterfeit dollars in return for your real gold.

 

Trust me, when this blows up, you'll see the "real emotions" come out. As you become the harlot who chased him for years, the reason his life is hell now, the person he hated, but you just made sex so easy he couldn't say no. And there's a very good chance he'll say all that, and more, about you to his W. His W is the one who matters to him, you are a distraction and enjoyable "hobby" of his. But the concept of leaving his W for you; I suspect if he's anything like the men I know, is so far from his mind as to occupy the same place as trying to determine the physics behind flying pigs.

 

 

 

And this is the really ****ty part, because I've seen this too, and, before my W's A, it wasn't my favorite thing, but it really didn't bother me. I figured these women knew what they were getting into when they took the role of the OW, and hey, they were probably saying the same things to their friends about their AP's. I was dead wrong. The men I know who have or had AP's look at them with disdain. They are a joke to be shared among their friends. Their pictures are the fodder for group text messages (seriously). I, like the OP of this, have NEVER seen a man "stand up" for an AP. The best is probably "she s**ks a mean d**k" or some other sexual characteristic of her that's notable. And honestly, usually it's not even that; it's a combo of "she's OK" and "she's easy enough, not too much work, and I get some sex on the side". AP's are not selected for their awesomeness, they are selected because they said yes; if they hadn't, the MM I know would have moved on the next one.

 

Please.. Please, I beg you, wake up. If you want to look at it differently, statistics has an answer for us; about 1-3% of A's (depending on the source) go onto marriage. And that's marriages often result in D. Couple that with A's in general are under reported (and marriage is not, it's a knowable number) and you have almost no chance of winding up married to your AP. It's like playing Russian roulette with a semi-auto, you're gonna get shot every time until the gun is empty. If sex isn't your goal, this is not a game that you want to play. If sex is your goal, then ask your H for an open marriage, I suspect he'd also like to at least know so he can have additional partners or decide that's a deal breaker for him. But unilaterally opening the marriage and not letting him know is grossly unfair to him.

 

Adotta and Overtaxed (and Blues Power) it is your brutally honest advice from the man's perspective that keeps me coming back to this forum, and is the only thing that has truly resonated with me as a reason to end things sooner rather than later. I cannot thank you enough. I am not there yet, but shaking myself out of my absurd denial and delusional thought process is definitely a first step in what will be a very painful attempt to reclaim my life.

Edited by Aloha123
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Aloha you will get there eventually. I was lucky I guess. I went to break up with my ap and she flipped. Took aim at every sore spot I had and unloaded. It was vile. Really showed me how messed up of a person she was and started me down the road to understanding. I wasn't special. She wasn't special. We where two sick animals humping each other pretending it was love.

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grass-hopper

 

I'll let you in on a not so secret about us men who cheat. ESPECIALLY married men.

 

WE DON'T THINK YOUR SPECIAL. You are NOT the love of his life. You are NOT a priority in his life. All he is doing is maintaining the ILLUSION of love to keep you hooked.

 

Why keep you hooked? SEX. It's as simple as that. Men want sex and use emotion to get it. It's not the same with women usually. Sure they enjoy sex, but the order is flipped. Usually women use sex to try to get emotion from their partner.

 

As a guy I can tell you right now that if he loved you he wouldn't be married currently. He would be with you. Not keeping you on tenterhooks.

 

I'm going to tell you what basicly every man who has ever talked with me or around me about their affair partner has said about those affair partners. it goes something like this usually.

 

"Man she was sooooo easy. Barely had to put any effort in. Yeah she's crazy for my dick. She can't get enough! Hahaha! Yeah bro She is HOT! Take a look at these pictures. Here's one where she spreads her pussy lips!! Man what a slut! She is so stupid!"

 

I have honestly never seen one of them say their ap is a stand up lady. Moral kind smart. None of that. It's a big game to them. Most women think they are beating the system and found the ONE MARRIED GUY who isn't just messing around. Sadly they are 99 out of a hundred times just ****ing wrong.

 

So let me cut to the chase. If you just want to ****. That's what you will get. If you want to start talking emotion and a future.... don't hold your breath. He will likely only put in just enough effort to keep you in his bed as his **** toy. If the effort becomes too much and outweighs the benefit you will get tossed away.

 

.

 

There is also the theory that now that his affair is known by his wife the luster is off the Apple. It's true for some people that the affair only stays alive as long as the secret does. Once the affair comes to light it loses its appeal. Loses its wow factor and taboo eroticism. Sometimes the secret is more important than having the affair in the first place to them.

 

Honestly I think your time is better spent finding out why you can't handle or don't want fidelity, but even more importantly fixing whatever it is in yourself that said it was a good idea to become involved with a vile man who cheats and lies and manipulates someone he swore to love. Don't you see that for the sick and twisted thing it is?

 

Op.... gently. Do you have validation issues? What I mean is do you seek out self worth in the opinion and attraction that men offer? Do you weigh your value as a sexual/attractive person based on how many people or what certain people think about You?

 

Getting compliments and being attractive to those you're attracted to is nice. I enjoy a little compliment or a girl noticing me closely as well, but the feeling shouldn't be a need. Just a nice thing to brighten my day a bit that doesn't really matter in the long run.

 

Most of the people I see on this board, either cheaters or other men/women have huge validation or FOO issues. Or have been sexually abused. Could any of that apply for you?

 

If I'm barking up the wrong tree just tell me, but honestly this guy and what he thinks/feels is the least of your problems. For your sake I hope he dumps you. It would be for the best. Actually YOU dumping HIM would be the best way, but your probably not even close to ready for that.

 

This really hit home to me. I feel ashamed. This honesy is what we OW need. But will we listen? I want to.

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Grasshoper

 

You understand that what I am saying is probably pretty close to the truth, but your need for validation and the excitement overpowers that logic. Your need for whatever adrenaline hits and dopamine rushes the relationship offers is in control.

 

Find out the reason you crave those feeling so badly and attack the problem at the source. Your desire to be desired in such an out of control way that you even damage yourself when logically you know better comes from somewhere. Find out were when why.

 

If you do that you will be equipped to handle this much better.

 

I had to dig into my FOO issues, feelings of inadequacy, and some other darker things to understand why even when I knew my ap was pure poison, I still desired validation and dopamine hits from her.

 

Until I had begun digging into that I was simply unequiped to understand and fight these feelings of dependence. I am now better equiped to identify weaknesses in my thought patterns and illogical actions. I now know how to feel better about myself without relying on such poor and unreliable methods of temporarily making myself feel joy/excitement about life and feel confidence about myself.

 

Digging into those issues and my own weaknesses has branched out and influenced other parts of my life in wondrous ways.

 

I truly think you shouldn't look at this as fighting your desire for your AP. You should look at this like your fighting the underlying need for this type of relationship and what little it offers. In the condition you are (imho) in it wasn't that this guy was special. He just fit into the crack in your ego and subconsciousness like a puzzle piece..... or a splinter.

 

Sadly enough their are millions of crappy men out there willing and able to fill that mental crack for you. Your AP really isn't special. Just the right place and right time and a few of the right words and your own subconscious filled in the rest with half truths and dreams made of gossamer.

 

Once you understand the root causes of these needs your AP will start losing his appeal very quickly.

Edited by Adotta
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