Tell me something I haven't thought of...

[blackbirdsky]

I am the other woman. It's not something I thought I would ever say about myself. I'm not even really sure what I'm hoping to gain by posting here except that I am having one of the miserable days that seem to come with territory when one is a mistress. Writing this almost seems like a way to journal my thoughts and hopefully get some feedback. I know I may also get a lot of flack and/or not a lot of sympathy and I understand that.

 

The story is so typical. I am in my mid-thirties and single, no kids. He is two decades older and has been married for over 30 years, with adult children. We met a few years ago, and it was obvious pretty quickly that there was some chemistry. One night after work a bit too much wine was consumed and something happened. And before we knew it we were having a full-blown physical and emotional affair. It's been 1.5 years now.

 

The parts that seem atypical (at least compared to most of the articles I've read about affairs)?

*He doesn't complain that his wife is terrible or unloving or any of those things. He said things were always fairly good and then along came me and he just fell, hard. That he doesn't know how there was room for something like this to happen. They still have some physical intimacy but not a lot (I've seen a few texts and notes from her to him that support the fact that she is struggling with this so I know it's true and not just something he tells me to make me feel better.)

*We don't have a lot of drama. We love each other. There's great physical chemistry of course. And perhaps most of all, we really like each other - our personalities mesh so well. We're both known for being incredibly kind people (aside from this crappy thing we're doing right now) and we bring a lot of kindness and understanding to our relationship. We have a lot of honest talks about our situation too. And if we'd met in another life we'd be married by now, of that I have no doubt.

*We know that what we're doing is terrible. She is a nice person and doesn't deserve this. He is very close to his kids too and lying to all of them is killing him. I see the stress and torture that this causes him as he's always had a lot of integrity. He is someone who has always done what's best for everyone else and is constantly taking care of other people - his family (including his elderly parents), people he works with, his friends. And for me, I feel like I have ruined what was otherwise a pretty successful marriage.

 

He knows that I would like him to leave his wife but I also know that leaving would devastate not only her but also their whole family. I don't want that but I also don't know how to go through the rest of my life without this person. I've been in a couple of long-term relationships by this point in my life (and while none of them were bad, but there was always something lacking it seemed) and now I feel like the universe is playing a cruel joke by finally showing me this person who fits me so perfectly, and yet we are in an impossible situation. That us being happy means other people being destroyed. He has said many times that even if he stays, he knows he'll only be doing it to save the family from a huge upheaval, and will spend the rest of his life miserable too. We are truly stuck between a rock and a hard place, and it seems like no matter which way things go, there will be sadness of some kind for a long time.

 

What do we do? Is there any way to come out of this okay? Does anyone have advice or thoughts that I could ponder that perhaps I haven't thought of?

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

He was bored and you were a shiny new object and he was weak. I doubt there's any long-term marriage on earth that hasn't been tempted by the fruit of another, but he didn't have the integrity to keep his hands to himself. And now he's in a pickle.

[somanymistakes]

The only thing I can think of to add, though you've hopefully thought of it, is that your idea of "fitting each other so perfectly" may be skewed because you're only seeing a select slice of his life. You're still in the romantic dating phase, and because it's a forbidden romance, there's that extra spice on top as well.

 

It keeps things spicy and makes you less likely to get tired of each other. You only have to live the movie romance, not the boring slog parts.

 

It doesn't mean you're not a good match. It means that it's very hard to be sure.

 

For most people, there are a lot of possible good matches out there. It's all about who they meet when. You're compatible, but that doesn't necessarily make him the only person you can be with.

 

Anyway. Think about some possible outcomes.

 

How would you feel about continuing this affair secretly, forever? Never being able to tell anyone who your partner is, never marrying, never having children? How do you think he'd feel about it?

 

What do you think would happen if his wife found out about the affair? How would she react? How would he react? Would he defend you, or his marriage?

 

What would happen if he requested a divorce and managed to keep you secret? Divorce is not that rare. Lots of families have to deal with it. Why would it particularly devastate his entire family? Is his family religious and very anti-divorce?

 

What will happen if his children catch you? They're adults and not that far off your age, right? They may accidentally discover things. Do they know who you are? Are you at risk of them recognising you?

 

If he's so honest generally, has he ever considered being honest, telling his wife that he wants a more open arrangement, that he wants both you and her?

 

Do you work together? If you decided to end things, how easily could you cut this man out of your life?

[BTDT2012]

No, there is no way forward for you and the MM that doesn't involve hurt for someone. Right now he has the best of both worlds. Just accept that what you have is likely as good as it gets.

[WasOtherWoman]

 

He knows that I would like him to leave his wife but I also know that leaving would devastate not only her but also their whole family.

 

He would not be leaving his family, he would be leaving his wife. When people divorce when their kids are grown and have their own lives, it is seldom DEVASTATING to the family. That is just an excuse. (please note i am not minimizing the impact to the BS)

 

He either loves you and wants to be with you or not. If he does, he will make it happen, it really is that black and white. When people are in affairs and they have kids, they say they are staying in the marriage for their kids (not passing judgement on this at all.... I am sure in many cases it is true). But when the kids are grown with lives of their own, the excuse then becomes the can't leave the wife, or can't divide the assets.

 

Does he say he will leave?

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

He would not be leaving his family, he would be leaving his wife. When people divorce when their kids are grown and have their own lives, it is seldom DEVASTATING to the family. That is just an excuse. (please note i am not minimizing the impact to the BS)

 

False! :(

[blackbirdsky]

Cautiously Optimistic - that was tough to read but parts of it are true. We've talked about the "why" quite a bit and despite us both wondering how it all came to be, we know there was weakness on both our parts. We know he might have been a bit bored and I might have been looking for someone to take care of me, all those subconscious things. But it still happened and it doesn't mean we love each other any less.

 

somanymistakes - thank you for such a detailed and thoughtful response. We do work together and you're right that I may only be seeing one side of him in our relationship. However, our work environment is very inter-connected and I think we know each other pretty well. I may not have seen as many elements of his personality as his wife has after 35 years, but I feel like we know each other as well as you can only 1.5 years in to any relationship, affair or otherwise. And we've handled the stressful times with a lot of openness and consideration. But I'm not diminishing the fact that testing this relationship in the "real world" wouldn't have its challenges. And I agree that there are others out there that would/could still be a fit for me. But (and I know this will sound dramatic) there's a peace that I find when I'm with him that I have never had before. I've been blessed to have had some very good relationships in my life - so I don't have drama or lack of experience to blame. But I've never felt so wholeheartedly loved, understood and accepted as I do by him. Never felt so comfortable in my own skin and in my own mind. And as a result, I'm a better partner to him too. I'm sure that all sounds a bit hokey but it's the best way to explain why this feels different and also why it's so hard to consider leaving.

 

You asked about why a divorce would be particularly devastating and I think about that a lot too - it's certainly common enough nowadays and so I think it's his guilt that makes him over-inflate the impact a bit. Even if we could keep our relationship a secret for a time, so as not to appear like that was the reason, I think the devastation he perceives as inevitable has to do with a) the fact that they've always appeared to have a very stable loving relationship so this would come as a complete surprise, b) she is very close to his parents and they are frail and elderly and c) he is so close to his kids, all of whom are starting to get married and have families of their own. I think estrangement (even temporarily) from them would be incredibly hard for him.

 

I've asked him about the open arrangement idea - it's not my preference but I do understand how that could be a possibility. But he's pretty sure she would not be okay with that, and I think it would be a temporary fix at best. All romantic love between them has evaporated and so they'd both be aware that he was only staying for the sake of stability. I can't imagine how tense and awkward that might get as she would want more from him than that.

 

Thank you again for your responses - I will continue to think about these questions further.

[DKT3]

There isn't going to be a divorce. I'm betting at her age she is struggling with low estrogen and maybe menopausal, your 35ish enough said.

 

This guy loves his wife, he is comfortable with his life, closing in on retirement and I promise not looking to restart.

 

The way you describe his daily family life, you are simply an escape, and fantasy land where he can disappear for a couple hours. I'm sure he cares for you, but he isn't leaving for you.

 

Important question is why are you burning this time with someone else's husband? You can get over heartbreak, but you can't get the time back.

[WasOtherWoman]

False! :(

 

I have not observed it to be devastating, as it is when kids are small. I am not suggesting that grown kids don't care, but they are not as wrapped up in their parent's lives, i don't think. Of course that is just my experience, everyone has their own. But - I think in this particular thread, that is just another excuse.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

I have not observed it to be devastating, as it is when kids are small. I am not suggesting that grown kids don't care, but they are not as wrapped up in their parent's lives, i don't think. Of course that is just my experience, everyone has their own. But - I think in this particular thread, that is just another excuse.

 

Young adults who are just starting out in their lives/marriage/family building can not only be emotionally traumatized by a cheating father (it tends to severely impact a woman's ability to trust a man if the daddy she has depended on her whole life turns out to be a betrayer), but it taints all future family gatherings once kids enter the picture. It creates a "need" to show allegiance to one parent over the other. It changes the parent/child relationship to be unnecessarily "therapeutic" if one parent complains/vents about the other.

 

No matter how you dice it, infidelity is wrong and destroys families. It cannot be sugar-coated.

[fredflint]

OP, are you still dating other people? I think you should, you can't put your life on hold for this guy. I also note that you have rose-colored glasses w.r.t his integrity.

[blackbirdsky]

Fredflint - can I ask what you mean about my rose-colored glasses? If you mean that someone with integrity wouldn't do this to his wife, then shouldn't I be painted with an equally quick and bad brush? i.e. doesn't that mean I'm a terrible person for getting involved with a married man and hoping he'll leave? I don't condone what I've done, but I also don't think that what I'm doing defines me as a terrible person or someone without integrity. So I would find it hard to judge him like that as well. Good people can get themselves into very complicated situations without meaning to hurt anyone. But I'm not sure if that's what you meant.

 

DKT3 - she went through menopause some time ago for medical reasons, and their intimate life was very healthy until I came along. So I don't think this has anything to do with her health or interest in that department. But I do think you're right that I'm a bit of an escape, or at least was to start out with. But now he's in love with his escape, and hence the problem. I think in his mind this would have been a lot easier to make a decision on if there wasn't so much compatibility and emotional attachment, which he may not have anticipated when it all started.

Edited June 20, 2018 by blackbirdsky

[blackbirdsky]

To comment on some of the responses saying that the "staying for the kids" thing is just an excuse. It may be. I'm not blind to that possibility. But this is a man who sees his adult children almost daily - they're an incredibly close family. And it's broader than that - the extended family relies on him a fair bit too and if his family were to break down, there would be implications for a lot of people. He always says he feels it would be incredibly selfish to leave, and he's never made me any false promises that he would leave either. But he truly seems to want to. He said that his mind just swings back and forth all day between feeling guilty about what he's doing to them and feeling miserable about not being able to be with me. So I guess my point is, he does seem genuinely tortured. It doesn't mean I have to stay, but of course I love him so I feel torture of another kind.

[BaileyB]

He is a man of integrity all right, besides the fact that he is engaged in a sexual relationship with another woman and his wife and his family have no knowledge of this "other life."

 

There are other virtues like honesty, trust, loyalty, respect, and fidelity that he seems to lack - you have just chosen not to see these things. Not to be unkind, but I think if his wife knew the truth she would have something different to say about his integrity as a husband and as a man.

 

To answer your question - if he is unwilling to divorce his wife, which he has given you no indication is even a consideration for him, then there is no way out. Men at this stage of life don't often leave the marriage because it will have significant consequences to their financial well-being and their reputation. Forgive me for being cynical, but even if he does "love" you, love probably isn't enough...

 

Which means, you can continue as you have been... you provide a pleasant diversion from his marriage and the responsibilities at home and in his life... Among other things, you offer some additional sex that has perhaps dried up at home as his wife struggles through menopause... Regardless, if you chose to continue on your current path there is no reason to think that he will ever be able to offer anything more.

 

Your other option is to leave.

 

I'm curious, what you want for your life? You are young. You still have the opportunity to find a husband and perhaps have a family of your own. Will you regret not having your own children/family?

[fredflint]

Fredflint - can I ask what you mean about my rose-colored glasses? If you mean that someone with integrity wouldn't do this to his wife, then shouldn't I be painted with an equally quick and bad brush? i.e. doesn't that mean I'm a terrible person for getting involved with a married man and hoping he'll leave? I don't condone what I've done, but I also don't think that what I'm doing defines me as a terrible person or someone without integrity. So I would find it hard to judge him like that as well. Good people can get themselves into very complicated situations without meaning to hurt anyone. But I'm not sure if that's what you meant.

 

I say you have rose-colored glasses because you say aside from cheating on his wife and "lying to his family", that "he's always had a lot of integrity", "he always has done what's best for everyone else". Do you see the inconsistencies in what you say? You're trying to rationalize and convince yourself that you have a good man here, but he's a liar and a cheat. His true nature isn't defined by what he tells you his true nature is, or even what you come to believe his true nature is, his true nature is defined by his ACTIONS. And his actions towards his wife and his kids are unsavory at best.

 

I've been the other man in a situation recently. Due to various complications, our situation was hardly an affair from my perspective, but it has become apparent to me that I have to some extent engaged in an affair. So I've pulled back from the situation. I already feel bad for what I've done. I'm not going to compound that by continuing. It's one thing to do the wrong thing. It's a completely different thing to knowingly continue to do the wrong thing. You are both knowingly continuing to do the wrong thing. I'm not trying to lay a guilt trip on you here. I'm just saying a person with integrity and strength of character doesn't knowingly continue to do the wrong thing.

[DKT3]

Fredflint - can I ask what you mean about my rose-colored glasses? If you mean that someone with integrity wouldn't do this to his wife, then shouldn't I be painted with an equally quick and bad brush? i.e. doesn't that mean I'm a terrible person for getting involved with a married man and hoping he'll leave? I don't condone what I've done, but I also don't think that what I'm doing defines me as a terrible person or someone without integrity. So I would find it hard to judge him like that as well. Good people can get themselves into very complicated situations without meaning to hurt anyone. But I'm not sure if that's what you meant. hmm, fine line here. Yes good people find themselves in terrible situations, not so good people than manufacturer justifications to remain in those situation for selfish gains while good people find the way out

 

DKT3 - she went through menopause some time ago for medical reasons, and their intimate life was very healthy until I came along. So I don't think this has anything to do with her health or interest in that department. But I do think you're right that I'm a bit of an escape, or at least was to start out with. But now he's in love with his escape, and hence the problem. I think in his mind this would have been a lot easier to make a decision on if there wasn't so much compatibility and emotional attachment, which he may not have anticipated when it all started. You sound like a very intelligent woman, yet slightly delusional. Your story is par for the course. You are making the same mistake that so many women make you trying to use your female brain to reason for a man. As I said I'm sure this guy cares for you, I'm even guessing he believes some of the stuff he is saying to you. what you are failing to understand is his relationship with you has nothing to do with his relationship with her. The Male mind is like a bunch of shoes boxes stacked neatly, when he is with his wife he is with his wife with no connections to you.

 

Comments above.

 

Read here awhile, you will find stories hundreds of them that sound just like yours. At the end of this there is a 91% chance you will have bus tire tracks across your forehead from being tossed in front of it.

[WasOtherWoman]

To comment on some of the responses saying that the "staying for the kids" thing is just an excuse. It may be. I'm not blind to that possibility. But this is a man who sees his adult children almost daily - they're an incredibly close family. And it's broader than that - the extended family relies on him a fair bit too and if his family were to break down, there would be implications for a lot of people. He always says he feels it would be incredibly selfish to leave, and he's never made me any false promises that he would leave either. But he truly seems to want to. He said that his mind just swings back and forth all day between feeling guilty about what he's doing to them and feeling miserable about not being able to be with me. So I guess my point is, he does seem genuinely tortured. It doesn't mean I have to stay, but of course I love him so I feel torture of another kind.

 

I hear you on the torture, really for BOTH of you. Leaving, after so many years is an incredibly difficult thing to do. My position with my affair partner was this... make a decision. Stay married or leave. I will be ok with either, but you need to make one. I was not willing to be the other woman for long, I am just not wired that way. If you are happy this way, then all is good. But if you are not (and I sure was NOT) then staying in this situation for a long period just gets more painful.

[blackbirdsky]

BaileyB - I'm not interested in having children (am fine with step-kids/grandkids but have never had a strong desire for any of my own - and I'm at the upper end of the mid-30s age group I mentioned so I don't foresee that changing).

 

As for the rest of what I want, I do want marriage in my future. And I know that may not be an option with this man. Thus far I've continued to make the daily decision that even if that never happens, it's still worth it for what I get to experience with him. To have him in my life for however long I get to. But it also breaks my heart every day to be in this situation.

[CautiouslyOptimistic]

their intimate life was very healthy until I came along. So I don't think this has anything to do with her health or interest in that department.

 

This poor woman. She's left to wonder why her husband doesn't sexually want her anymore, and it's because he's found someone young enough to be his daughter to replace her .

[DKT3]

This poor woman. She's left to wonder why her husband doesn't sexually want her anymore, and it's because he's found someone young enough to be his daughter to replace her .

 

I honestly doubt this is true. I know it's what OP NEEDS to believe, but in all likelihood he is still having a sexlife with his wife. As I said, I know its hard for many women to grasp but him having a relationship with OP doesn't affect his relationship with her in any way. Its business as usual over there.

[blackbirdsky]

DKT3 - I've seen things (texts, notes etc) from her that would support what he tells me about their sex life being pretty close to non-existent and her being worried that he's going to leave her. Nothing direct but little things that make me think things are not going great over there.

[somanymistakes]

In which case, continuing to keep the secret is hardly doing her any kindness. She's already worried.

 

The fair thing to do is to tell her the truth.

[DKT3]

DKT3 - I've seen things (texts, notes etc) from her that would support what he tells me about their sex life being pretty close to non-existent and her being worried that he's going to leave her. Nothing direct but little things that make me think things are not going great over there.

 

There was a OW posting here who's MM produced divorce papers. Only it was fake. It's doesn't take much to believe what you want to believe.

 

Bottom line is simple, if he wanted out he would be out. This situation works for him as is. His marriage is fine, his wife is likely clueless.

 

I get a sense that you take some pride in the idea that YOU have pulled him away from his marriage, maybe it makes you feel special. Here is an ideal, give his wife a call and watch what happens...watch out for that bus.

[BTDT2012]

DKT3 - I've seen things (texts, notes etc) from her that would support what he tells me about their sex life being pretty close to non-existent and her being worried that he's going to leave her. Nothing direct but little things that make me think things are not going great over there.

 

 

Of course things aren't going great, her husband is sexing another woman. And if he really was a man of such integrity he wouldn't be sharing her personal business with you. I was once an AP. His wife was never the subject of any discussion. When I felt better about myself, I had to end things with him. It is hypocritical, but I couldn't see myself in a permanent relationship/marriage knowing that he was a cheater.

[darkbloom]

Listen, I was in a similar situation. In fact he was open with me that their sex life was great and there were no problems in that department. I asked him to make a decision and whichever way he picked I would support him. He picked her.

 

I do believe that he’s a good person at heart but he is compartmentalizing these situations and not addressing the fact that his behavior will have serious negative consequences for his family. The anguish he expirences everyday should be enough for him to pick a side of the fence and stick to it.

 

I’ve never wanted to be anyone’s side piece or part time girlfriend. That’s basically what his actions are telling you even though you don’t want it to be true.

 

Your connection can be true and you can love him even though the rest of your relationship is a lie. You have to decide if this is enough for you.