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The Other Man / Woman The other side of the story: Support and discussion for those who find themselves involved with a committed partner.

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Old 15th February 2018, 11:30 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by wmacbride View Post
op,
Have you thought about what you response will be should this mm try to contact you and get the affair up and running again?

I'm asking because if you have an answer down pat in your mind and are ready, it may be much easier to avoid getting sucked back in. You'll be well prepared and much less likely to be thrown for a loop.
Yes, ma'am, I have. Too bad I can't make a flow chart here (nerdy joke).

If the coward (he even called himself a coward) gets the courage to ever reach out:

1. If he texts or emails, I will reply with text or email inappropriate and nothing less than phone call acceptable. Then I will ignore any subsequent written communication. In a phone call, I must hear an apology immediately after greeting. If no apology, I will tell him he should have started with an apology and hang up. If he surprises me with an apology straight off without prompt, move on to 2.

2. I must hear from him, without my guiding him, how he believes he errored in handling the whole situation...everything from lying to me about being emotionally available after I discovered he was married, to leading me on while married, to being duplicitous to both me and BS, to withholding information to my detriment, etc. Then, I have to hear what his plan is for being a better person, what he's learned and how he's grown. If this step is not satisfied, I will tell him he obviously hasn't reflected enough or grown enough to be someone who has access to me, and not to contact me until he does. I will begin any future attempts at contact with questioning him on these things and, if he fails, each time I will tell him there will be no further contact until he does. If he does demonstrate he has learned and grown as a person, and he has laid out a plan with measurable milestones and timeline, then move on to 3.

3. I must know his plans for his marriage. If he's staying married, I'm out. I will have no contact with him whatsoever as long as he plans to stay married. Should he demonstrate a divorce is in progress, I will have limited contact without being his emotional tampon (thanks Carhill!) or rebound girl (thanks CH). Sidebar: I have seen the dirty business of a male friend of mine, call him "D," use a younger woman to help stabilize him just after leaving his wife (wife was cheating)--I don't want to be that girl. She got D an apartment in her name, a car when his was repo'ed, became a non-paid admin in his business, did a lot for him in those first few months. Then D decided he didn't want to put up with her temper, so he moved to a new place and drastically limited contact with her (except when convenient). He justifies his behavior saying he bought her stuff and showed her new business ideas. He was not very loyal to her when she was nursing his newly separated a$$. This is my same friend who told me xMM was making a fool of me...guess he would know! Back to xMM...If xMM completes step 3 adequately and actually divorces, move on to 4.

4. He has to deal with and process his divorce, life changes, and truly have a solid grasp on why he was conflict avoidant in his marriage plus gain skills that will make him not repeat same patterns. If accomplished, move to step 5.

5. He has to date me like a lady, old fashioned style, the way this whole thing should have begun in the first place. Then, I will slowly begin to forgive and trust him.


Now to be clear, I really don't believe xMM would accomplish half of this because I just don't believe he has it in him...and ain't nothing going to happen between him and me until every last bit here is done. In being very realistic, even if he does miraculously do the above, I'm pretty sure I will be happily committed to someone else by the time he would...and I wouldn't let anything disturb my happiness with another man who did everything right from Day 1.

So yeah, I've got a plan!
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Old 15th February 2018, 11:44 AM   #32
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I will say, as a former MW, that DKT3 has some valid points. Maybe it's because I am over seven years out from my A that I can see the points he's trying to make...it's all about perspective.

Barrel, when I started on this site, there was zero moderation and posters used to say horrible things to WW like me. I found, though, that the posts that pissed me off the most hit a nerve, a nerve that was an issue I hadn't addressed yet. I'm not saying you have to listen to everyone but maybe sometimes try to take a step back. Or just move on. Even today occasionally a post will really get to me...but now instead of thinking "what a jerk" I think "why is this upsetting me so much?"

You've made great progress, and the more progress you make, the easier it becomes. It is a hard road to heal from being a OW/MW but as long as you keep moving forward you'll make it. GL.
Hi Bittersweetie. What is hitting a nerve is someone trying to convince me they know me better than I know myself, twisting my words around, picking out certain sentences in my posts while glossing over other sentences to make their own case/agenda (the way dishonest lawyers do in a courtroom), and overall gaslighting me, trying to invalidate what I am saying and feeling, trying to convince me that my recovery isn't real (calling my thread a fake, etc.), etc.

Well here is a BIG FAT NO to all of that! No-one, regardless of what life situation or circumstances, should be ok with that. I don't have a problem with people asking questions or pointing out gaps in things I actually have said however...cases in point on this very thread.

Thanks for your post and thanks for stopping by.
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Old 15th February 2018, 12:56 PM   #33
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I hope you don't think that I think your recovery is not real, or I'm gaslighting. I'm just speaking as someone whose farther down the road.

Your plan, above? In my opinion, it's a lot, it's too much. I went through a phase when all I wanted was an apology. I went through a phase when I thought, if he was single, and I was single, and he "proved" to me he was a better, healthier, etc etc etc kind of person, then maybe we would have another chance, someday. But as time went on, those phases faded away. And my plan was this:

Walk away. Say nothing.

Because, when it comes down to it, what is the point of engaging?

Maybe things are different for me as a MW, but I still can't see the point of all the expectations you have above. You, on your own, are moving forward, growing, becoming a healthier person! And there's plenty of men in the world for the future. There's really no reason for you to even give this guy the time of day!

Again, this is only my opinion as a fWW who is years down the road. GL.

P.S. I think, too, overall this is a good discussion not just for you but for all of us here.
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Last edited by Bittersweetie; 15th February 2018 at 1:02 PM..
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Old 15th February 2018, 3:02 PM   #34
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Over a Barrel,

I also went through a stage where I planned what I would say and do if I ever heard from xMM again.

In my plan, I had many conditions he had to meet and THEN I might look at him again.

However, as time passed, I had to be honest with myself and ask why I was still thinking about a mongrel who treated his wife disgracefully for 9 years, and kept me dangling on a string. It was a stage in recovery... a bit like an addict bargaining with themselves I guess. It passed .

I eventually made a list of descriptive words such as liar, cheat, manipulator, emotional abuser, to name a few. Non of these qualities is desirable in anybody.

Try to focus on something else. WAsting time about what might happen in the future is futile.
Poppy.
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Old 15th February 2018, 3:10 PM   #35
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P.S If I heard from him now, I would simply not reply... unless he turned up at my place of residence. Then I would have security remove him. Have to admit that would feel good !
Poppy
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Old 15th February 2018, 10:43 PM   #36
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I was just doing a No No, which was reviewing some of the correspondence between me and xMM for a brief moment. Here are my thoughts as I did, in order of strongest thoughts...

1. What a waste of so much of my time and energy!

2. I put in so much to nurture the connection while he did not. He just showed up without actually putting too much energy into it. I used to think he hard a hard time opening up, but now I think I made it too easy for him, and he was very lazy with me. He enjoyed gobbling up all my goodies without having to expend much energy.

3. I'm sad that I gave so much to someone who valued it too little, and did not respect me enough to be more honest about how little it all meant to him...but alas, I played into it like a silly fool always thinking the avalanche of good stuff would be right around the corner...just needed to turn the corner...the corner that never came...UNTIL NOW--because I turned my own corner without xMM. Crap, how much of myself I squandered!!! **sigh**

Oh well, can't do anything but look forward. Looking backward will just keep me in the past, and the present is here and now...plus staying in the past just wastes more of myself, and I just won't give anymore to such a crap situation!!!
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Old 15th February 2018, 10:57 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Bittersweetie View Post
I hope you don't think that I think your recovery is not real, or I'm gaslighting. I'm just speaking as someone whose farther down the road.

Hi Bittersweetie, No I do not think you were making those statements.
I was stating DKT3 did that, and the action of such is what touched (or grated really) my nerves.


Your plan, above? In my opinion, it's a lot, it's too much. I went through a phase when all I wanted was an apology. I went through a phase when I thought, if he was single, and I was single, and he "proved" to me he was a better, healthier, etc etc etc kind of person, then maybe we would have another chance, someday. But as time went on, those phases faded away.

Yeah, I hear you. I think it's all part of the process. In a way, I think these plans we make with all their conditions are a way of us reasserting ourselves during the healing process. As I've said a few times here, I truly don't expect him to follow through on even a fraction of what I've put down as my requirements. They are really more of a guidepost of what the A was not, and a self-reminder of how things should be in a relationship with integrity. It's a way of saying, "Here is what I should have done from day one, but didn't. As a result, A got totally out of hand and jacked me up. Going forward, I will accept no less from anyone I will be involved with."

And my plan was this:

Walk away. Say nothing.

Because, when it comes down to it, what is the point of engaging?

Maybe things are different for me as a MW, but I still can't see the point of all the expectations you have above. You, on your own, are moving forward, growing, becoming a healthier person! And there's plenty of men in the world for the future. There's really no reason for you to even give this guy the time of day!

MW or not, there are parallels. Understanding and believing in my heart,
which I do now, that plenty of men who will think more of what makes me happy, strive for that, be a team, etc. makes me sad in a way because it is again a reminder that I invested in someone who was not any of that...but good things lay before me...yes!!!


Again, this is only my opinion as a fWW who is years down the road. GL.

P.S. I think, too, overall this is a good discussion not just for you but for all of us here.
Glad you agree!
Thanks for keeping the conversation going!
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Old 15th February 2018, 11:05 PM   #38
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Over a Barrel,

I also went through a stage where I planned what I would say and do if I ever heard from xMM again.

In my plan, I had many conditions he had to meet and THEN I might look at him again.

However, as time passed, I had to be honest with myself and ask why I was still thinking about a mongrel who treated his wife disgracefully for 9 years, and kept me dangling on a string. It was a stage in recovery... a bit like an addict bargaining with themselves I guess. It passed .

I eventually made a list of descriptive words such as liar, cheat, manipulator, emotional abuser, to name a few. Non of these qualities is desirable in anybody.

Try to focus on something else. WAsting time about what might happen in the future is futile.
Poppy.
"Over a Barrel"--don't forget the "Had" part, Poppy. Past tense--teasing! :-)

Same response as my reply to Bittersweetie above, but adding here that I really am not focused on what might happen in the future with xMM, but I am very focused on what I am doing right now that will impact my future. I am feeling very optimistic about all of that!

The thing I should work on most, which is something I identified in myself before A, is my tendency to avoid things that stress me by focusing on another situation, which may also be emotionally charged, but not as important. Case in point, I have a couple significant dilemmas to solve (not romantic or xMM related), I know I can solve them, and I have an idea of how to start even though I don't know all the steps, but it is easier to focus on getting over xMM...because thinking of those dilemmas is pretty stressful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poppy47 View Post
P.S If I heard from him now, I would simply not reply... unless he turned up at my place of residence. Then I would have security remove him. Have to admit that would feel good !
Poppy
I'm sure I will be there very soon, dear Poppy!

Last edited by HadMeOverABarrel; 15th February 2018 at 11:08 PM..
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Old 19th February 2018, 2:11 AM   #39
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HadMeOverABarrel,
It's good to read your thoughts, my friend. Long time! I appreciate your encouraging words, and I'm very glad to learn of your progress

Really loved these nuggets from your original post in this thread:

"OW/OM: hear me now! NO, JUST NO! NO MORE, NOT ANOTHER DAY! LOVE YOURSELF MORE THAN YOU LOVE YOUR BELOVED! Take care of yourself, do all kind things you wanted to do for your beloved for YOURSELF. Be especially kind to yourself while you are picking up the pieces of your broken heart and mind."

and

"Live your lives, my friends. Enjoy every second, and never allow someone to rob you of your joy, especially someone who shows up to extract more than they are willing to give."

These are my overarching thoughts on the matter, though I continue to struggle. Anyway, I just wanted to stop in and say "Hi!"
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Old 19th February 2018, 2:59 AM   #40
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Why on earth are you keeping correspondence, let alone looking at it???

Poppy
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Old 19th February 2018, 5:44 AM   #41
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The OP is doing a whole lot better than other OW's I see.

Kudos!
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Old 19th February 2018, 7:05 AM   #42
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"OW/OM: hear me now! NO, JUST NO! NO MORE, NOT ANOTHER DAY! LOVE YOURSELF MORE THAN YOU LOVE YOUR BELOVED! Take care of yourself, do all kind things you wanted to do for your beloved for YOURSELF. Be especially kind to yourself while you are picking up the pieces of your broken heart and mind."

and

"Live your lives, my friends. Enjoy every second, and never allow someone to rob you of your joy, especially someone who shows up to extract more than they are willing to give."
Words to live by today
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Old 20th February 2018, 7:11 PM   #43
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HadMeOverABarrel,
It's good to read your thoughts, my friend. Long time! I appreciate your encouraging words, and I'm very glad to learn of your progress

Really loved these nuggets from your original post in this thread:

"OW/OM: hear me now! NO, JUST NO! NO MORE, NOT ANOTHER DAY! LOVE YOURSELF MORE THAN YOU LOVE YOUR BELOVED! Take care of yourself, do all kind things you wanted to do for your beloved for YOURSELF. Be especially kind to yourself while you are picking up the pieces of your broken heart and mind."

and

"Live your lives, my friends. Enjoy every second, and never allow someone to rob you of your joy, especially someone who shows up to extract more than they are willing to give."

These are my overarching thoughts on the matter, though I continue to struggle. Anyway, I just wanted to stop in and say "Hi!"
Very sweet, thank you! and thanks for the shout out! Wishing you success! We all stumble. I still have an emotional day here and there...been thinking of starting a new thread called "Affair Hangover" to explore the final phases of moving on, especially with a new person, and how that has been triggering some residual affair junk within me. <<Hugs>>
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Old 20th February 2018, 7:18 PM   #44
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The OP is doing a whole lot better than other OW's I see.

Kudos!
Thanks Popsicle. I'm not 100%, still have some moments of confusion and sadness here and there, but I am definitely getting there. In those moments, I calmly tell myself to keep moving forward, and then remind myself I am feeling like that because xMM is where he is (not with me) by his choice, which also means there is no point in wasting more emotional energy on him...a man who did not perceive my value. Getting stirred up is just more waste on a situation that has no reciprocation...and more investment in a failing venture while losing opportunities elsewhere that would reciprocate.
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Old 20th February 2018, 7:27 PM   #45
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Why on earth are you keeping correspondence, let alone looking at it???

Poppy
It's a fair question, Poppy. I rarely read any of it. Keeping it has served me in the past though, especially when I first went hard into NC. I was of course emotionally wrecked. Part of that was feeling like a victim. The emails were useful when I reviewed them with my counselor. In reading them, I realized there were moments when I had stuck up for myself with xMM, which made me feel like I didn't totally 10000% fail myself. That helped me feel better. Also, my therapist was able to give me some peace about a couple things, that came straight from her reading xMM's own words.

Now, if anything, reading some of it reminds me why I need to keep moving forward...away from A. That is especially true when I read how xMM got defensive and projected/stonewalled whenever I asked him to be accountable, answer my questions honestly, stop avoiding and manipulating. His writings remind me how he was not such a great guy in dealing with me, affair or no affair. That helps to keep moving forward with him in my review mirror. It works for me, but may not work for everyone.

Lastly, I have not blocked him because I know he is too chicken to actually reach out. This is a daily reminder to me that he is unworthy. Every day that goes by reminds me how little he has valued me, and his lack of effort is a constant reminder of that. Surely makes it easier to walk away for me. In other words, I never have to wonder, "Is he trying to reach me? Is he sorry/trying to apologize/being a better person?" Nah, I already know the answer, and can not deny it to myself with the irrefutable evidence--he never reaches out, which proves that I was barely a blip on his radar, and not even a blip now.

Last edited by HadMeOverABarrel; 20th February 2018 at 7:35 PM..
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