how to keep affair history secret if affair turns into relationship?

[miseenscene]

Hello. I have been reading these fora for about three months now and have found the diversity of opinions and perspectives interesting and valuable. This is my first post here, and I hope people who have been in my situation can share their experiences.

 

I have been involved with a married man for a year and a half. I don't know whether he will leave his wife--he may or may not, that is something that he is in the process of figuring out--but if he does, it is my deep hope that his wife does not find out that he was involved in an affair prior to leaving. My question is specifically for people who were involved in affairs that went on to become primary relationships. If you left your spouse without disclosing an affair and continued your involvement with your affair partner in the open, did your former spouse ever find out that the relationship started prior to the marriage ending, or were you able to keep that part a secret? Same question if you were the affair partner in such a scenario. Do you have suggestions for how to minimize the chances of such an after-the-fact discovery? Did you take conscious steps to avoid it?

 

I hope that it is okay and does not offend anyone to add that what would be helpful to me is limited to answers to this specific question. Although this is my first post, as I mentioned, I have been reading LS for some time, and while it is full of thought-provoking and helpful discussions, I often see threads on here that are about specific aspects of affairs become free-for-alls for people's opinions about affairs in general. I hope that by posting in this sub-forum I can get concrete advice about this particular scenario without it becoming a discussion about morality of affairs in general or speculations about whether or not he will leave his wife, whether married men in general leave their wives, etcetera. I turn to this community because I don't know a lot of people who have been in such a situation in real life, so I hope that a forum dedicated to people involved in affairs can help me learn how this scenario has played out for others.

[Standard-Fare]

I know of one situation that went like this:

 

Man has an affair for over a year, his wife finds out and kicks his a** to the curb. Once divorced, man pursues a real relationship with affair partner that a few years later becomes his second marriage. The woman becomes the stepmother to his two teenage children. Eventually the ex-wife gets remarried, so some of the anger settles. After several years, the ex-wife and the new wife actually become genuinely friendly with each other. Both have been involved in raising the children, and they've been together for weddings, funerals, other family events. Even a couple vacations. They're comfortable and warm and joking with each other.

 

I've only observed this situation from the outside, so I don't have a true grasp of the complicated dynamics. But it's been a marvel to watch the evolution of it all.

 

This doesn't answer your question, I know. In this case the wife did find out about the affair, and yes she was a wreck for a while, but over time the situation did even out.

[whichwayisup]

Are you worried for him and the fallout/consequences and his wife's reaction, childrens reaction if he has any kids, family etc and having to face them all in the future?

 

Is he leaving his wife for you?

[miseenscene]

Thank you, Standard-Fare. While it does not exactly answer my question, it is an interesting (and positive) story to hear. I appreciate it.

[Be_Strong]

Keeping the affair a secret after a divorce depends mostly on how long you wait before bringing the relationship out in the open. If you openly date weeks after the separation, everyone in town will assume (or at the very least strongly suspect) that the relationship started during the marriage. Keep your relationship a secret for a year after his separation, and then pretend that you just happened to meet and start dating at that time and nobody will suspect anything.

[Hope Shimmers]

I hope that by posting in this sub-forum I can get concrete advice about this particular scenario without it becoming a discussion about morality of affairs in general or speculations about whether or not he will leave his wife, whether married men in general leave their wives, etcetera.

 

Good luck with that.

 

Despite the topic of this forum, there are no restrictions regarding who can post here, although off-topic posting is not allowed in general.

 

I've been on this site for about 8 years and I don't really recall a situation where a legitimate relationship after an affair (a rare situation overall) involved the ex-wife not knowing about the affair at some point, even if not right away.

[miseenscene]

whichwayisup, he has a child, as do I. That is the main reason--it would be my preference to minimize anger and tension for the sake of easing a blended family situation. Additionally, although we don't actually work together, all three of us are in the same relatively small professional community, we attend the same professionalization workshops and conferences, so a second concern is avoiding gossip among colleagues if possible. I am not sure what you are asking in your other question. As I wrote in the post, I don't know if he is going to leave his wife for me or not, that is something that he is sorting out. Or were you asking whether, if he were to leave his wife, it would be for me? The answer to that is, if he were to leave his wife it would be because he could not continue in his marriage regardless of what would happen with us, but if he decided that he was going to leave for that reason, then yes, we would be openly involved.

 

Do you have experience with such a situation as either the spouse who left or the affair partner?

[whichwayisup]

The thing is, are you going to ask your friends to lie? Or his if they know of your affair? What if his wife is suspicious and has hired a PI?

 

I know I'm not answering what you are asking but I do hope you at least think this through before going through with this plan.

[miseenscene]

I don't have a plan. I have an idea, or a hope for how things would turn out, with minimal hurt or hard feelings. That is why I am interested to hear what has worked and not worked for others, what helped smooth things over and what backfired. If his wife is suspicious and hires and PI, there is nothing to be done, I guess, but if there is a way other people have minimized suspicions in such situations, it would be helpful to hear. We are very discreet and very few of our friends know about it--the couple that do already keep that secret for us. None of them are in a situation where they might have conflicted loyalties.

 

Thank you for your response.

[whichwayisup]

whichwayisup, he has a child, as do I. That is the main reason--it would be my preference to minimize anger and tension for the sake of easing a blended family situation. Additionally, although we don't actually work together, all three of us are in the same relatively small professional community, we attend the same professionalization workshops and conferences, so a second concern is avoiding gossip among colleagues if possible. I am not sure what you are asking in your other question. As I wrote in the post, I don't know if he is going to leave his wife for me or not, that is something that he is sorting out. Or were you asking whether, if he were to leave his wife, it would be for me? The answer to that is, if he were to leave his wife it would be because he could not continue in his marriage regardless of what would happen with us, but if he decided that he was going to leave for that reason, then yes, we would be openly involved.

 

Do you have experience with such a situation as either the spouse who left or the affair partner?

 

No, but that doesn't mean I can't help or offer suggestions.

 

Has your child met him, or spent time with him? If so, it would be impossible to hide that. Eventually the truth would come out.

 

And yes I was asking if he was divorcing his wife because of you. Would he still be considering divorce if you and he had never met? Ask him to be honest and answer this for you. Don't assume that you haven't affected his marriage and what he feels for his wife.

[miseenscene]

My child has seen him a couple of times very briefly in work-related social settings, among many other colleagues. We have never spent time with each other's children in any kind of "just us" situation. Questions like "would he still be considering divorce if we had never met" are impossible to answer--it's like the butterfly effect. I think that meeting me pushed him to admit to himself that there are irreconcilable differences in his marriage, and that a different kind of a relationship is possible. I think that if we had not met, he would have come to the same realization, perhaps a bit later, or it would have been triggered by developing feelings for another person. So sure, of course, his feelings for me resulted in him considering his marriage and his life choices in a different way. But I think when we repress dissatisfaction or unhappiness, the universe (or our own unconscious mind) will find or create situations that will bring it out into the light. If it weren't me, it would have been some other crisis, and probably sooner rather than later.

Edited February 3, 2015 by miseenscene

[miseenscene]

Keeping the affair a secret after a divorce depends mostly on how long you wait before bringing the relationship out in the open. If you openly date weeks after the separation, everyone in town will assume (or at the very least strongly suspect) that the relationship started during the marriage. Keep your relationship a secret for a year after his separation, and then pretend that you just happened to meet and start dating at that time and nobody will suspect anything.

 

Thank you. That makes sense.

[DKT3]

The betrayed spouse is very rarely clueless about an affair. They may not want to admit it or face it but rarely clueless.

 

So once the new relationship (affair) becomes public it tends to bring it all into focus.

 

Not to be a downer, but I think you should be making more realistic plans like what will you do when he doesn't leave his wife. That is the most likely outcome, him with her you with tire tracks from that bus he back over you with.

[whichwayisup]

I think that meeting me pushed him to admit to himself that there are irreconcilable differences in his marriage, and that a different kind of a relationship is possible.

 

Do you know if his wife is just as unhappy as he is? Did they ever go to marriage counseling and really try to fix their marriage for the sake of their children? I just ask this because if/when he tells her he wants a divorce and her reaction is shock and devastation, and she's clueless as to what he has been feeling in the marriage, she may ask to have a chance to make it work, and she'll probably ask if there's someone else.

 

I know you don't want to hear this but don't jump ahead and hope for a future with him, right now it's conversation...He's still married and obviously not had 'the talk' with his wife. He needs to put a plan together and act upon it, not just make empty promises to you about it.

 

For your own sanity, put a time limit on this too. Do you want be here a year from now still in an affair and being the OW?

[miseenscene]

Whichwayisup, thank you for those thoughts--regarding being wary of empty promises, while I can tell your advice comes from a good place, and thus I appreciate it, it is similar to the kinds of sentiments I mentioned in my original post that seem to be about general beliefs and that in my relatively short time reading LS I see people regularly applying to any situation that is presented here--it reflects the biases of the advice-givers more than anything else. Some people believe that marriages can never recover from affairs, some believe that if he will do it with you, he will do it to you, others believe the opposite. I did not write that he has made any promises to me--only that he is thinking about what he wants to do. Of course I hope for a future with him. Hoping is not the same thing as confidently expecting--that would be unreasonable at this time.

 

You are right that she may well ask if there is someone else--the entire basis of my question is, if he says "no" in that situation, how to minimize the chance of her finding out the truth.

 

I am not privy to his wife's inner world so I don't know if she is just as unhappy as he is. And I don't know how clearly he can see her feelings, so I take what he says about her with a grain of salt. In general, it is my own belief that if one spouse is extremely unhappy in a marriage, there is no way that the other spouse can be happy and fine--after all, they are in the same marriage, and a marriage is a system.

 

I am not interested in putting a time limit on it because that is artificial and would not necessarily reflect my feelings at the moment that it ran out. I think your question of "do you want to be here a year from now..." was rhetorical, but I don't know how I will feel in a year. I feel fine about it now. If this relationship starts making me miserable and I feel like it is intolerable, whether that happens next week or in three years, I will end it. From what I have read on here, and also from witnessing people conflicted about situations in real life--not necessarily affairs, but unhappy marriages, or relationships where a woman wants to get married and the man does not--people who make timelines are people who feel anxious or unhappy in a situation and a timeline makes enduring the discomfort tolerable because one can say "well, it's finite." For the time being I feel neither anxious nor unhappy. So I don't feel like I need a timeline if that makes sense...

[miseenscene]

The betrayed spouse is very rarely clueless about an affair. They may not want to admit it or face it but rarely clueless.

 

So once the new relationship (affair) becomes public it tends to bring it all into focus.

 

Not to be a downer, but I think you should be making more realistic plans like what will you do when he doesn't leave his wife. That is the most likely outcome, him with her you with tire tracks from that bus he back over you with.

 

Thank you for your thoughts. As I said in the original post, responses that are general speculation or prediction about whether or not he is likely to leave his wife are not the kind of feedback I am looking for.

[whichwayisup]

it is similar to the kinds of sentiments I mentioned in my original post that seem to be about general beliefs and that in my relatively short time reading LS I see people regularly applying to any situation that is presented here-

 

Sadly though for the OW or OM it is the way the story goes, that is the outcome. MM doesn't leave his wife and family to be with the OW and marry her. It does happen obviously, but to very few and for those who have ended up marrying their AP have a MM who quickly put a plan together and didn't drag out a divorce, they didn't dick their OW around, they were up front and honest all along, no lies, no deceptions, no games, no bullshi.t. Those MM committed to the OW and proved it in actions not just words.

 

You shouldn't dismiss the above or what else you've read on here and in the infidelity section. See both sides of this, actually PUT yourself in his wife's shoes.

 

You should view this from all angles, not just angles that suit you and your MM in the best possible light.

 

Without knowing enough detail of their marriage, their dynamic and home life (does he still spend time with her, do family outings?) it's hard to assume anything about them. People who cheat usually have issues within themselves, have poor coping skills.

 

Anyway, I am not here to turn you negative or make you end your affair, it's just nobody wants to see you posting again a year or two from now still hoping he's going to divorce his wife and you're still having an affair.

 

One thing you didn't mention and I assume you're divorced or single?

[Bootsie]

I know of exactly this situation that "worked out" (ie was successfully kept a secret) - twice!

 

 

A man I knew had an affair and eventually left his wife and married the OW, without his BW ever finding out. I attended the wedding of the MM and his 2nd wife. Several years later the MM had yet another A and his 2nd wife was devastated when he left her. By this time they had children. To the best of my knowledge the 2nd wife and former OW, still does not know that he was having an A with his current partner, while still in his 2nd marriage.

[miseenscene]

Whichwayisup, t's not that in general I don't think of the various angles of this, it's that at this point in this forum I am interested in specific feedback about a specific question.

 

I can't put myself in his wife's shoes. I can imagine what it is like to be cheated on because I have been in that situation, but that is not the same thing. I don't have her life experiences, I don't have the experience of being married to him, I don't even know if she has any feelings left for him. I always feel like this sort of call is meant to have someone realize "I would hate this done to me, therefore the situation is wrong and I will not participate in it." But people and situations are more complicated than that.

 

"People who cheat usually have issues within themselves, have poor coping skills."

 

I agree with that 150%. That is why, actually, I personally would be nervous about a situation that you describe where married men bolt quickly. I think that kind of situation usually means that people are looking to escape their problems rather than look within, or believe that another person will make them happy. I actually have a professional mentor like that, a truly lovely man--but he left two wives very quickly because he "fell in love" and did not waffle was "decisive" in both cases. But he brought his baggage with him into each new marriage and his third marriage, while still relatively new, does not seem very strong or stable either.

[miseenscene]

I know of exactly this situation that "worked out" (ie was successfully kept a secret) - twice!

 

Were you privy to how this worked out? Was he very discreet, did he make it seem like the overlapping relationships actually started later than they did?

[Bootsie]

Were you privy to how this worked out? Was he very discreet, did he make it seem like the overlapping relationships actually started later than they did?

 

 

Yes to both questions.

 

 

The first wife never knew of the affair or that her marriage overlapped with the relationship with the 2nd wife. The MM and OW1 married in 1986 about 3 years after the affair started and about 2 years after the first marriage broke up. The second relationship lasted from 1983 until a couple of years ago. He is not married to his current OW2.

 

 

I knew MM and OW1 very well, but barely knew the original BW at the time. It wasn't until I met her again about 10 years ago in unrelated circumstances, that I realised from what she told me that she never knew of the A that broke up her marriage. I have often felt bad that I know this info that she doesn't and debated telling her but in the end didn't, because her children are half-siblings of the children of the 2nd marriage and they all were getting along fine at that time.

 

 

Now the second marriage has broken up and the BW2 (who is OW1) is devastated and left wondering why her marriage failed and why her H is with someone else now. I saw him out with OW2 while he was still with BW2, and then worked out who she was after the 2nd marriage ended. I didn't tell BW2/OW1 about what I saw. Although she's really upset, I can't help thinking that she's got what she signed up for, and I wonder if she suspects. We are not so close now, so losing the friendship wouldn't bother me as generally it ends up being shoot the messenger anyway.

[gettingstronger]

Like Bootsie I also know of a situation like this and yes, the marriage did end in divorce- a friend of mine was the OW and she married her AP without the first wife knowing they were having an affair-

 

In retrospect I think the issue was neither of them had to face up to the fall out of the affair because so few knew about it-I think the man in this instance never learned to tough it out when a marriage becomes, well a marriage with kids and bills and life- their marriage fell apart at about the same time as their first marriages- when the kids were in elementary school and the realities of life set in-

[Standard-Fare]

OP, it's worth asking why you're so concerned about the wife's knowledge and reactions. BEYOND the obvious basic compassion of not wanting to cause hurt and pain. Go deeper than that.

 

I'm wondering if this has more to do with your own desire to not go public with a relationship that has a "tainted" foundation. I can sense you doing the math here, trying to figure out at what point you and the MM can go forward with a relationship that appears completely above-the-board. And you're realizing you're several years away from that. You and the MM would have to hide your intimacy for a long time while he cuts the threads from his marriage.

 

Affairs are messy, disruptive things that affect many people. It's naive for you to hope for a "clean break." You may need to adjust your expectations and think more realistically about what will happen if your affair does go public. Can you stand behind this relationship and this man after everyone finds out the way you started?

[MrFixIt]

miseenscene,

 

I know a woman who attempted what you are asking.

 

She was unhappy in her marriage and met a man at work. They began an EA that lasted for two years. They were both married with kids at home.

 

Both of their spouses suspected something but neither knew for sure and neither knew who the OM/OW were.

 

The woman divorced her husband.

 

About a year later, rumors started flying and eventually made it back to her BH. In addition, OM started hanging at woman's home. Neighbors, who were still friendly with BH, noticed and informed him who was there.

 

BH, put 2+2 together and realized how far back this must have gone. He then contacted BW (still married and living toghether while attempting marriage counselling). They collaborated time-lines and put the whole puzzle together.

 

So the woman made it through D without getting caught only to get busted after the fact.

 

Ended up being a complete mess and still is.

[elaine567]

it would be my preference to minimize anger and tension for the sake of easing a blended family situation. Additionally, although we don't actually work together, all three of us are in the same relatively small professional community, we attend the same professionalization workshops and conferences, so a second concern is avoiding gossip among colleagues if possible.

 

This is very cool, calm, collected and eminently sensible. And you are considering your options for the post-A relationship very carefully.

However an A, by its very nature, tends not to follow rules, it tends to be more chaotic.

What happens here if your A was discovered tomorrow or next week or next month, all of which are entirely possible?

How would your calm, cool and collected approach deal with that?

What impact would that have on your child, your standing in your professional community, your work, your colleagues...?