Would You Admit?

[MissBee]

I got to thinking of ddays and the myriad of ways in which they can occur and what can go down and wanted to discuss:

 

If your MM/MW's spouse finds out about the affair and contacts you to inquire about the nature of your relationship with their spouse, would you admit it? Has this happened to anyone before?

 

What would/were be your reasons for admitting to it, if you would/did? What were/would be your reasons for denying it if you would/have?

[RickFox]

As my xmw's H doesn't know but after having a friend point some things out to him and my xmw telling me that "there were alot of questions and a lot of denial" on her part, initially I would have told you I wouldn't have admitted it.

 

Now, if somehow something came to light and he came at me, I'd tell him straight up what happened. Why would I do it now as opposed to then? Loyalty I suppose, in the beggining I was loyal, but was shown none. Now, just because. IF he found out, I simply wouldn't lie about it. Some would say he needs to know, why didn't you tell him, and the answer is simple, as much as I've wanted to, it would be done for revenge, to make her life a living hell as the A did mine.

 

It would also open up all the wounds my wife and I are slowly mending and could result in either one or both of us (me and xmw H) hurt or dead and simply because my wife has asked me to leave it be.

[MissBee]

I would strongly recommend no OW to trust the BS. She certainly does not have your best interests at heart. Nor would I as the BS trust the OW. From what I have read on various support sites, the OW is more often than not still in contact with the MM discussing how to deal with the BS.

 

It amazes me how any woman, BS or OW, could trust her counterpart, OW or BS, more than the man she is in a relationship with. The ground of that relationship seems very weak indeed to me in such a case.

 

If you are dating or married to a cheater, then it is only logical that the relationship(s) is/are/ may be weak or there is much room for suspicion at least. Such is the nature of triangulated relationships.

 

In any case, it is possible, esp in Lady Grey's case where she did not know she was the OW, that both women put aside their desire for this man/hurt, to discuss things truthfully or just to get to the bottom of things.Needless to say, it can be quite difficult to sort through the truth in a dday scenario where the dday wasn't because the MM himself confessed. If he confessed himself, chances are he as at least decided of his own accord to tell some of the truth...if he was found out without him wanting to be, then lying etc is more likely. The OW may have "evidence" that clears stuff up for the BS, likewise the BS may have "evidence" to clear stuff up or enlighten the OW about. Unfortunately, it is often par for the course, that both BS and OW are in the dark about some aspect or another...the MM is the only person who for a fact knows the reality about both the A and the marriage. The OW and BS only know for certain what is seen from their ends and their respective roles, so a conversation between the two parties may reveal quite a few surprises.

 

The premise that OW/BS shouldn't trust each other can make sense and is true sometimes I'm sure. I'm sure some OW or BS's outright lie for whatever reasons, yet the implication that they shouldn't trust each other but trust the cheater in the middle is murky. The MM is in no more of a position to be trusted frankly, absolutely none...and a smart woman, OW or BS, would gather info from all sources upon dday, so that she can figure out what is true.

Edited June 11, 2012 by MissBee

[Happyface]

Yes I would.. simply because she wanted to know.

 

I was responsible for 3 years of her life being "missing" in a large part. He spent so much time with me and she never knew.

 

I would not like that to happen to me.

 

It would be a great relief to me if that ever happened but I know it won't.

 

 

 

Happy Face.

[cocorico]

What would/were be your reasons for admitting to it, if you would/did? What were/would be your reasons for denying it if you would/have?

 

Why would I want to confide in a total stranger about my R? Especially someone who is not a friend of the R and never could be.

[cocorico]

Well..........I can speak from my experience and I can say I have no regrets about it. Also I wasn't nor am I naive enough to think that she wasn't looking out for her best interests. At the time, the thing she wanted more than anything was the truth. They had had a d day and he was lying his arse off to her and at that time, it really wasn't about much else than the truth.

 

In my case, the joke was on him.......because it was in fact me the ow and her the bs who were in cohorts against him. When you find out as I did that someone had lied to you for 2 years, then most people come to realize pretty quickly that you don't owe them a damn thing and I didn't. Had he not been lying to me about being separated and she was really the crazy stbx that he said she was, well then my mouth wouldn't have opened and I would have keep my loyalty to him but as it was he was a pathological liar who cared for no one, me included.

 

No regrets about what transpired with her. I'm a better woman for it.

 

Maybe if your MM was some freak who lid to you and you hate him I could see an OW wanting to disclose to the BW. Or if you were spiteful and wanted to hurt her. But a normal OW and a normal MM who doesn't lie to the OW, why? A lady never kisses and tells.

[MissBee]

Why would I want to confide in a total stranger about my R? Especially someone who is not a friend of the R and never could be.

 

In a normal relationship this makes sense....a total stranger calling me up to ask about my relationship would be insane. If I am dating someone's husband, whom she lives with, welll....it would be insane of me to act like this person has no right to ask me if I am with her husband.

 

Who said anything about confiding in? Answering someone about whether or not you are involved in a relationship with their spouse requires a yes or no...I don't see it as you confiding in them.

 

But in short, your answer is you would not admit it as the BS is a stranger to you and an enemy to your A. Fair enough.

[MissBee]

Maybe if your MM was some freak who lid to you and you hate him I could see an OW wanting to disclose to the BW. Or if you were spiteful and wanted to hurt her. But a normal OW and a normal MM who doesn't lie to the OW, why? A lady never kisses and tells.

 

How did you come to determine that this is normal?

 

A lady never kisses and tells, but I'd go farther to say that a lady wouldn't be involved with another lady's husband, and in not doing so, wouldn't have to bother with his wife calling her up. That's my idea of a lady all the same.

[seren]

The OW rang our home number after H changed his mobile after telling me about the A. OW was looking for closure, H refused to speak to her and so she initially thought I was stopping him speaking with her. Nothing could be further from the truth as I told H he needed to give her closure, but he said his email of it's over was all that she was getting. I don't and didn't agree with that. OW asked, I answered, I asked, she answered, I gave her the truth as I saw it and she me. What she said was true, but given the additional information from me gave a different spin on how things were.

 

I am grateful to the OW for her honesty and wished her well, despite all the bats*** crazy stuff that went on later, I still hope she finds peace. Not all BW hate or blame the OW, some of us actually are complete realists and put the blame for our hurt on our H's. For someone like myself, I cannot agree with an A or hurting another, but that's for the other to deal with. However, I think it can be an eyeopener to see the BS as a person, with feelings, with a different view of her and her H's marriage than the one that has been described by the WS, similarly recognising that the OW is human and hurt too is, IMO, a way of seeing it all clearly and certainly helped with my healing. had I not been told by H of the A, I would still thank her for her honesty, but it should always come from the MM (OM applies also). To leave it to the OW to spill the beans is as cowardly as the MM having the A in the first place.

[Radagast]

To leave it to the OW to spill the beans is as cowardly as the MM having the A in the first place.

 

I agree with this. I told my ex-wife and would certainly not have felt it was my wife's duty to tell my ex-wife, nor to answer to her at all had she contacted her. I would have protected my wife from my ex-wife's contact had she tried. Her issues, and her questions, should have been with me, and not with my wife.

[woinlove]

Maybe if your MM was some freak who lid to you and you hate him I could see an OW wanting to disclose to the BW. Or if you were spiteful and wanted to hurt her. But a normal OW and a normal MM who doesn't lie to the OW, why? A lady never kisses and tells.

 

Perhaps you didn't mean it this way, but I find the implication that you don't think Lady Grey is "normal" to be rude. I don't know what you mean by normal, but many MM lie to the OW. If they think the OW will get involved with them, even though they are married, they may not lie about their marital status, although we see plenty of examples here where MM use the term "separated" very loosely, when they don't have any intention of divorcing.

 

As to the OP question, the BW did contact me once and I answered honestly and, in fact, I also learned some things from her that I didn't know and which were true. None of this was done out of revenge or ill-feelings, as I was still with MM and planned to continue. I just never liked the fact that MM was lying and was not tempted to add my own lies. I also never had the feeling that it was none of her business, as I knew our R affected her M. So I answered honestly. She didn't ask me anything very private, mostly timeframes and future plans.

[cocorico]

How did you come to determine that this is normal?

 

Through my observed and loved experience, and what I've read, like anybody else.

 

A lady never kisses and tells, but I'd go farther to say that a lady wouldn't be involved with another lady's husband, and in not doing so, wouldn't have to bother with his wife calling her up. That's my idea of a lady all the same.

 

She was not a lady, so I was not involved with another lady's husband.

[cocorico]

Perhaps you didn't mean it this way, but I find the implication that you don't think Lady Grey is "normal" to be rude. I don't know what you mean by normal, but many MM lie to the OW. If they think the OW will get involved with them, even though they are married, they may not lie about their marital status, although we see plenty of examples here where MM use the term "separated" very loosely, when they don't have any intention of divorcing.

 

.

 

I did not say she was not normal, but her situation was not. Most MM do not lie to their OW in the way that hers did to her, so I can understand that in a situation like hers the OW may come to hate the MM when she finds out he lied to her, and so would not be bound by ties of loyalty to him and so be willing to disclose to the BW as in her case.

 

I hope that clarifies.

[frozensprouts]

Well..........I can speak from my experience and I can say I have no regrets about it. Also I wasn't nor am I naive enough to think that she wasn't looking out for her best interests. At the time, the thing she wanted more than anything was the truth. They had had a d day and he was lying his arse off to her and at that time, it really wasn't about much else than the truth.

 

In my case, the joke was on him.......because it was in fact me the ow and her the bs who were in cohorts against him. When you find out as I did that someone had lied to you for 2 years, then most people come to realize pretty quickly that you don't owe them a damn thing and I didn't. Had he not been lying to me about being separated and she was really the crazy stbx that he said she was, well then my mouth wouldn't have opened and I would have keep my loyalty to him but as it was he was a pathological liar who cared for no one, me included.

 

No regrets about what transpired with her. I'm a better woman for it.

 

hope you don't ind me asking, but did you find talking with his betrayed spouse helpful for you as well ( beyond that it allowed you to find out ore about him and the lies he had been telling)?

 

BTW...it still makes me angry that that married guy lied to you the way he did...he lied, and now you and his wife have to pay for it....what a jerk!

[MissBee]

I did not say she was not normal, but her situation was not. Most MM do not lie to their OW in the way that hers did to her, so I can understand that in a situation like hers the OW may come to hate the MM when she finds out he lied to her, and so would not be bound by ties of loyalty to him and so be willing to disclose to the BW as in her case.

 

I hope that clarifies.

 

Im sorry but I think many will beg to differ....

 

I think there are many MM who obfuscate their status, mine did, my dad does with his OW many times, several other stories on LS and in real life include a MM pretending he is separated or is only his wife's roommate and come to find out...it's not true. This happens for the simple fact that there are many women who wouldn't choose to be an OW, therefore, if a man admits he is married upfront, they'd run like the wind....for those women, MM usually have to sweeten the deal and not tell the full truth.

[frozensprouts]

the question was raised about why would a betrayed spouse even as an other man/woman questions re: the affair and expect an honest answer...

 

a couple of reasons spring to my mind...

 

(a) perhaps they are at the end of their rope and desperate for any information they can get

 

(b) perhaps they feel they need information and have enough trust/faith in other people that they will tell the truth.

 

i think it's a pretty sad reflection on humanity that some feel an other man/woman will always lie or at least hide the truth. This really makes me wonder if their is any honesty to an affair at all. If a spouse knows about the relationship ( or even suspects one exists) why would an other man/woman lie about it when questioned? Perhaps it could be rationalized as " I'm protecting my married man/woman", but really, it's just another lie told to protect what? If the married man/woman truly wants to be with their affair partner, would this not be an an opportunity to have that happen with a little a bit of honesty and dignity about it? What is their to be gained by continuing to lie? Why is their such a need to hide?

[MissBee]

I got to thinking of ddays and the myriad of ways in which they can occur and what can go down and wanted to discuss:

 

If your MM/MW's spouse finds out about the affair and contacts you to inquire about the nature of your relationship with their spouse, would you admit it? Has this happened to anyone before?

 

What would/were be your reasons for admitting to it, if you would/did? What were/would be your reasons for denying it if you would/have?

 

 

In my case there was no dday that I was a part of, but had she contacted me and asked, I think I'd have either admitted it or told her to ask him (which is just as well as admitting it...as if I were not involved with him, I'd not hesitate to say I wasn't).

 

I would have admitted it at the time, for the sheer fact that I did not feel obligated to keep it a secret. We never discussed hiding things or any logistics and there was no code of deny at all cost. I didn't like the situation being an A (and initially didn't realize he was taken, because he set it up that way) but I wanted him, so put up with it, but that said, I felt no obligation to lie to "protect him" or keep things going. I figured he chose to lie so if it comes crashing down, that's his problem but I wasn't going to make up stories. I left the secret-keeping burden on him. I honestly never gave any thought to her finding out and never ever thought what if she contacts me?

 

I don't think at the time though, I would have given her details. I just wouldn't have denied it and simply said "Yes, ask him about it". I would then tell him she contacted me. I would not be in cahoots with him to lie or have him feed me some tale to tell her though. It would be all on him. I guess I'm not the best OW loll as I wouldn't have felt any kind of loyalty in terms of spitting lies and gaslighting her with him *shrug*. If she tried to contact me further though, I would have avoided her most likely. Now that I am long over it, if she did contact me for some strange reason, I'd tell her everything she wants to know. Probably not every sordid detail, but I wouldn't shy away from talking to her and asking her a few questions of my own.

Edited June 11, 2012 by MissBee

[woinlove]

the question was raised about why would a betrayed spouse even as an other man/woman questions re: the affair and expect an honest answer...

 

a couple of reasons spring to my mind...

 

(a) perhaps they are at the end of their rope and desperate for any information they can get

 

(b) perhaps they feel they need information and have enough trust/faith in other people that they will tell the truth.

 

i think it's a pretty sad reflection on humanity that some feel an other man/woman will always lie or at least hide the truth. This really makes me wonder if their is any honesty to an affair at all. If a spouse knows about the relationship ( or even suspects one exists) why would an other man/woman lie about it when questioned? Perhaps it could be rationalized as " I'm protecting my married man/woman", but really, it's just another lie told to protect what? If the married man/woman truly wants to be with their affair partner, would this not be an an opportunity to have that happen with a little a bit of honesty and dignity about it? What is their to be gained by continuing to lie? Why is their such a need to hide?

 

I don't know how typical it is for the OW/OM to lie to the BS. As I said I wouldn't. But some reasons the AP may lie include

(1) it might be their usual mode to lie

(2) they may worry if the BS finds out, the MP will drop them

(3) they might prefer to stay in a secret A than in an R that is out in the open

(4) they may feel it protects the WS's financial advantages in the event of a divorce (depends where they live or if they know the laws)

(5) they may live in a place where the BS could sue them

(6) they might be ashamed of their behavior and want to keep it secret

(7) the MP may have asked them to lie, so they are doing it "for him/her"

Edited June 11, 2012 by woinlove

[MissBee]

i think it's a pretty sad reflection on humanity that some feel an other man/woman will always lie or at least hide the truth. This really makes me wonder if their is any honesty to an affair at all. If a spouse knows about the relationship ( or even suspects one exists) why would an other man/woman lie about it when questioned? Perhaps it could be rationalized as " I'm protecting my married man/woman", but really, it's just another lie told to protect what? If the married man/woman truly wants to be with their affair partner, would this not be an an opportunity to have that happen with a little a bit of honesty and dignity about it? What is their to be gained by continuing to lie? Why is their such a need to hide?

 

I never understood the concept of multiple ddays....had there been even one dday, I would have jumped ship pronto. I think ddays just have a way of showing ugliness. When my AP would lie about stuff, I wasn't around, I didn't know or hear what he told her so it didn't bother me. I could distance myself from the fact that he had to lie and deceive to be with me. Since I didn't see it, it simply didn't exist and I could see him as a great guy.

 

Once when he came to visit he borrowed my phone to call her and he stepped outside for a second and I could kind of hear his convo...don't recall now what he said, but I knew he was lying and that was the first I heard it for myself and it really made me realize how REAL and bad this was. I didn't feel good at all knowing he was doing that. I intellectually knew he has to lie or omit the truth to be with me and do what he did...but since I didn't have to see it...I just didn't give much thought to it and it wasn't real to me. It's kind of like people who eat cooked chicken, where they intellectually know it had to come from a live animal that you slaughter, but since most don't witness the process, they are disassociated from it and can enjoy their dinner. Yet for some people, when they see the process, they become squeamish and can't eat it. Still for some, whether they see or not, they can continue on lol. I was the squeamish OW...I could handle what I didn't know, but the more I knew...the more I didn't like it and the harder it was for me to feel loyal to the situation.

 

My personal moral compass and dignity barometer wouldn't allow for me to endure several ddays or several attempts of her contacting me and it would impede my ability to continue the relationship. Maybe I would continue after it all cooled down....but for certain, a dday would rattle me and most certainly I would not be involved in any actual gaslighting (i.e. he couldn't feed me lines like a puppet to say to her or agree about if she asked)...I couldn't. I think a dday would probably signal the beginning of the end for me...as I'd most certianly look at things differently after.

Edited June 11, 2012 by MissBee

[frozensprouts]

I don't know how typical it is for the OW/OM to lie to the BS. As I said I wouldn't. But some reasons the AP may lie include

(1) it might be their usual mode to lie

(2) they may worry if the BS finds out, the MP will drop them

(3) they might prefer to stay in a secret A than in an R that is out in the open

(4) they may feel it protects the WS's financial advantages in the event of a divorce (depends where they live or if they know the laws)

(5) they may live in a place where the BS could sue them

(6) they might be ashamed of their behavior and want to keep it secret

(7) the MP may have asked them to lie, so they are doing it "for him/her"

 

this seems very sad to me. in these instances, the "other person', who, in other areas of their lives may be a very honest person, has to lie to maintain the relationship ( affair). Wouldn't this be very difficult for them? I know that it can be rationalized, but in the back of their mind, doesn't the guilt fester and eat away at them?

[frozensprouts]

I didn't hate him..........when I first found out, I actually tried very hard to find a logical reason as to why he would do that to me or her. There was no logic in it.

 

It was not about spite and wanting to hurt her, not at all.

 

It was all about a need for the truth for myself and her. We gave it to each other and put the bs aside. I took my power back that he taken without my consent and I gave her back some of hers too.

 

"normal ow and normal ow"..........what you really mean is one who doesn't break "the rules", the rule is an ow who will lie for her mm and who buys into whatever bs he is selling about why he can't be truthful and tell the wife.

 

The truth sets you free.

 

sounds to me like you decided to be a real 'lady' and act in a dignified manner...this shows that you have a lot of class, and that you did not let his lies change who you are, fundamentally, as a person.

 

you sound like you are a person who is honest, and you made the choice to not allow him to change that about you.

[VivienViolet]

I got to thinking of ddays and the myriad of ways in which they can occur and what can go down and wanted to discuss:

 

If your MM/MW's spouse finds out about the affair and contacts you to inquire about the nature of your relationship with their spouse, would you admit it? Has this happened to anyone before?

 

What would/were be your reasons for admitting to it, if you would/did? What were/would be your reasons for denying it if you would/have?

It was one of the conditions of reconciliation with my H. If I were to be completely honest, I probably would have preferred to stay NC with the xOM and let them deal with their marriage while we dealt with ours.

[thomasb]

I very much feel the same as LG. Some people come to a certain point in their lives where honesty and integrity mean something. When they are tired of living in a world of half truth and fantasy. You realize that buried deep inside are Christian values that embrace living authentically and following a path with honor on your shoulder... instead of having to look over it all the time, because you are afraid to get caught doing something you know deep down is wrong. And that is why you man up, shake it off and tell the truth.

[skylarblue]

I would not admit to or divulge any information about the A to BW. If she asked about the nature of the R, I would adamantly assert that we were friends and nothing more. If she knew about the A and was asking for info, I would simply tell her she’ll have to ask her H.

 

I wouldn’t tell BW anything out of loyalty to xMM (contingent on his loyalty to me). He didn’t throw me under the bus on dday and was protective of my identity. I actually feel like xMM was very much on my side, and I would be on his side by protecting him in return.

 

BW has never contacted me, but on a couple of occasions xMM warned me of the possibility. Each time he directed me as to what I was to say, and I would have had she called (even when I didn’t agree). I would tell BW whatever story xMM ask of me so it would be a futile effort on her part and only aid in xMM’s gaslighting. At times, I feel horrible at the thought of continuing/strengthening XMM’s lies to her and/or not recognizing the magnitude of hurt, desperation, humility, or maybe even embarrassment that may come with her even having to ask me. At times, I feel such a (unjustifiable) despise for her that I couldn't care less. However, the huge amount of shame and anxiety I would feel if contacted by her is always constant.

[Owl]

Having been the BS to two serial cheaters, I must say I never understood why a BS would want to speak to the OW. Speak to your husband, he has all the information you want. If you do not trust him to tell the truth and feel you have to go searching elsewhere, you have a pretty bad relationship in my opinion, and not much to build on.

 

Thus as the OW, I would most likely redirect the BS to her spouse.

 

Were both of your serial cheating husbands completely and totally honest with you when you confronted/discussed it with them?

 

If someone has lied to you (even if just by omission, although it's almost always more than this) about the development of a relationship outside the marriage...it's pretty darned obvious that they're going to follow suit and continue to lie/evade/minimize/trickle truth when confronted.

 

For someone who's been on this board for so long, I would have expected that you'd have noticed that pattern by now.

 

So by YOUR observations/comments, I'd assume that absolutely no marriage could survive infidelity and recover...by the very nature of an affair.

 

And personally, I think it's tremendously naive to live a life under the assumption that "he won't lie to me, even though he'll lie his teeth off to her"...and then to try to indicate that somehow JUST the marital relationship is flawed...just beyond me.

 

The reason that BS's go to the OP is BECAUSE they almost never get the whole truth up front at one shot from the WS...not just the BS's who's marriage is doomed...but pretty much EVERY affair situation follows this same script. I called OM in my own situation...in truth, not for additional information, but because I (mistakenly) thought I could carry on a conversation with him with the intent of helping my wife avoid actions that would have had long term negative consequences on our family and her...not just our marriage.

 

Sorry...but this seemed like a fallacy that really needed to be cleared up. I can understand why you come to your conclusion, after having two unsuccessful marriages to two different serial cheaters...but that makes your conclusion no less erroneous.