Are you a victim?

[Silly_Girl]

There's a lot of talk of 'preying' and 'unsuspecting victims' and so on on this board lately. Didn't used to be as much. Big bad MM preys on unsuspecting vulnerable poor ickle OW.

 

Is that you? Do you believe you were set up from the start? A toy? Were you played and used?

 

I'm genuinely curious because whilst I'm aware that an affair relationship has a high chance of going 'off-course' in one way or another, my personal view is that most people are willing participants choosing to take decisions they may live to regret.

 

Happy to hear your views.

[26pointblue]

I think I personally was naive & too trusting/hopeful.

 

In general I think that if an MM is significantly older than an OW and/or in a position of power over her [boss], then yes he can often seduce her & use 'love'/promises to get what he wants . . . ego-stroking, sex, etc.

 

None of this means I wasn't responsible for my own actions, or that any other OW is not responsible for her actions. For me it was a learning experience & I see many things differently now & would never go back & do things that same way. When I came to see that I was giving him my power & control, & feeling like a manipulated victim instead of someone willingly staying in an unhappy situation & making my own decisions . . . that's when I started to see my way out of it. I realize now that no one can manipulate me unless I let them. If I had never allowed myself to get into that situation, I wouldn't have even had to worry about being too trusting or naive to believe what he was telling me . . . I would have realized I'm better than that, I deserve more, & it's not in line with my values. Instead I let him pull the strings for too long b/c I didn't know/trust myself enough. So based on my own experience at least, I don't believe that anyone is truly a victim. Everyone has the power to leave the situation or never get involved in the first place.

[MissBee]

I was not a victim, albeit I was pursued and he obfuscated his relationship status to give off the impression that he was single, and it was only after a long while (when I was attached and thus found it harder to let go) that I realized the truth. I do think he purposefully made things that way, to get his foot in the door, as had he admitted his status from day one, I would have been less receptive to him.

 

However, at some point I found out and chose to stay but definitely I do think there was some forethought on his part to present things in a certain way so that I would be a willing participant...

[MissBee]

I think I personally was naive & too trusting/hopeful.

In general I think that if an MM is significantly older than an OW and/or in a position of power over her [boss], then yes he can often seduce her & use 'love'/promises to get what he wants . . . ego-stroking, sex, etc.

 

None of this means I wasn't responsible for my own actions, or that any other OW is not responsible for her actions. For me it was a learning experience & I see many things differently now & would never go back & do things that same way. When I came to see that I was giving him my power & control, & feeling like a manipulated victim instead of someone willingly staying in an unhappy situation & making my own decisions . . . that's when I started to see my way out of it. I realize now that no one can manipulate me unless I let them. If I had never allowed myself to get into that situation, I wouldn't have even had to worry about being too trusting or naive to believe what he was telling me . . . I would have realized I'm better than that, I deserve more, & it's not in line with my values. Instead I let him pull the strings for too long b/c I didn't know/trust myself enough. So based on my own experience at least, I don't believe that anyone is truly a victim. Everyone has the power to leave the situation or never get involved in the first place.

 

I agree. I do believe that certain people in the world are prime candidates for being sold the proverbial swamp land, where the more cunning and manipulative people of the world, sniff them out and have their way with them. People who succumb to those horrible online scams where they send money to people are of that breed. I was also watching a program about women who get enamored with convicts currently in prison to the point of feeling in love and helping them break out of jail and just really crazy things that I don't see myself falling prey to, but apparently there are people out there who through some naivety, gullibility, power imbalance etc do get caught up and victimized by someone who is pulling the strings, has the upper hand and knows full well what is going on and carefully caters the situation to push at this person's weak spots.

 

I would venture to say that it seems, even from reading LS, that the majority of OW/OM are not victims but free agents choosing the situation, then there is a small portion who based on their story, the way they tell the story, the ideas they have and the way they express themselves, as well as the actual dynamic of the A, it seems apparent that someone is playing them based on their vulnerabilities and some upper hand they have.

Edited September 6, 2011 by MissBee

[Seraph1]

...I was pursued and he obfuscated his relationship status to give off the impression that he was single, and it was only after a long while (when I was attached and thus found it harder to let go) that I realized the truth. I do think he purposefully made things that way, to get his foot in the door, as had he admitted his status from day one, I would have been less receptive to him.

 

I was outright lied to (along with a lot of other people) when I asked if he had ever been married. He told me he had had some long term relationships.

 

I was clearly too trusting. Was I the victim? I don't know. I made the choice to have a relationship with him but under the illusion that he was single. I agree with Miss Bee that if he had admitted his status from day one I would not have been receptive to him. He actually said that to me when we were breaking up...that he couldn't tell me because it would mean that I wouldn't have given him the time of day. He said of lot of things that hurt me and made it hard to leave.

 

And the odd thing is that he kept repeating that I was not to feel guilty or upset over this because it was his responsibility, his guilt, his mess, his lie and his burden to bear not mine. That I should not feel any shame or guilt towards his wife since he was the one that had lied to me to be with me. He said that I was 'blameless' and 'the victim of his lies' so I bore none of the responsibility for him being unfaithful to his wife or cheating. He was actually determined that I believe this even after he accepted that I wasn't staying with him. He told me how much he hated to see me hurt and that he would give anything to make it alright for me.

 

Was I a victim? Of his lies and deception...yes. Do I have the 'poor me' mentality... no. I used to but I got over myself and owned my part in this awful situation. Sometimes I still feel bad and guilty about it but I remind myself that I wasn't the one that lied.

 

However, he clearly saw me as a 'blameless' victim in his mess ... so maybe I always was a victim if that he how he saw me at the end.

Edited September 6, 2011 by Seraph1

[wannabdone]

I think each situation is different, and you can't really put it into two categories of victim/or not.

 

Did I know he was M? yes. Did I know it would be a struggle and we would have to work things? yes. Did he use my belief in that to lie and manipulate me? yes. Did he take advantage of my good graces and make me feel guilty if I tried to bolt? Yes. Did I choose to stay? yes.

 

So where I willing stayed, I also bought his lines of bull****. Was that on me? Absolutely, i decided to believe his lines of ****. But, I loved him and he knew that.

 

So all in all, NO, not the victim. But definitely lied to, manipulated by, and used up by a narassistic bastard. And honestly, such a good con, and I was so in love with him..... the perfect storm for me to make an idiot of myself.

[pureinheart]

There's a lot of talk of 'preying' and 'unsuspecting victims' and so on on this board lately. Didn't used to be as much. Big bad MM preys on unsuspecting vulnerable poor ickle OW.

 

Is that you? Do you believe you were set up from the start? A toy? Were you played and used?

 

I'm genuinely curious because whilst I'm aware that an affair relationship has a high chance of going 'off-course' in one way or another, my personal view is that most people are willing participants choosing to take decisions they may live to regret.

 

Happy to hear your views.

 

Hey SG...I may have "felt" like a victim concerning many situations, although to actually be one would go against how I believe, which is that everything happens for a reason and there is no such thing as chance or coincidence.

 

I think in the case of A's, the more likely answer for those that feel victimised or see themselves as actual victims, are the R's that didn't turn out as planned by the "victim" ...I think this can be said for the BS also.

[woinlove]

Hey SG...I may have "felt" like a victim concerning many situations, although to actually be one would go against how I believe, which is that everything happens for a reason and there is no such thing as chance or coincidence.

 

I think in the case of A's, the more likely answer for those that feel victimised or see themselves as actual victims, are the R's that didn't turn out as planned by the "victim" ...I think this can be said for the BS also.

 

I'm not sure that applies to the BS. It seems the BS feels victimized by their spouses betrayal and deception, independent of the outcome. Even when they go on to reconcile and rebuild a strong and happy M. Not that they continue feeling like a victim, but from the way they write, I think they think that the affair was not of their choosing and was something the WS did secretly which hurt them. I don't recall any saying they would have chosen the WS's affair in the way OW say they chose the affair.

[Woman In Blue]

I think you're seeing alot of the words "prey" and "victim" because there seem to be quite a few posts lately from women who were out and out LIED to by married snakes making them believe they were single and young 20-somethings being manipulated by middle-aged married men looking for a cheap thrill on the side.

 

I find BOTH of these scenarios completely distasteful and I find both women in these cases victims. Of course, once a woman STAYS with a man when she finds out he's lied to her about his marital status for months or years she is no longer a victim - she's become a volunteer. But I just don't think most 25 year old women are wise enough or have had enough life experience to know when some older guy is really just looking to get in her pants and instead believes the bullsh*t these married guys are feeding them.

[spice4life]

Nope. Not a victim.

[sleepessinoh]

There's a lot of talk of 'preying' and 'unsuspecting victims' and so on on this board lately. Didn't used to be as much. Big bad MM preys on unsuspecting vulnerable poor ickle OW.

 

Is that you? Do you believe you were set up from the start? A toy? Were you played and used?

 

I'm genuinely curious because whilst I'm aware that an affair relationship has a high chance of going 'off-course' in one way or another, my personal view is that most people are willing participants choosing to take decisions they may live to regret.

 

Happy to hear your views.

 

 

Nope, I was not a victim. I made a choice knowing the outcome. I had an amazing time during although I am struggling now. I could never see me as a victim. We both did this and I knew from the beginning he was never leaving. We were just going to have fun and I fell in love. I am fully accountable for for my decisions. Just as I am fully accountable for my decision to end it and hurt like hell like I am now.

[skywriter]

No I wasn't a victim. I think people are quick to jump to that conclusion, based on how a person post, using words like "vulnerable".

 

I have stated before that I was lonely and vulnerable. Because, I was.

 

I was also naive enough to believe that I could be involved with this MM and keep my emotions in tact. ...and maybe I could have, had it been a one night stand.

 

But again, no I have never felt I was a victim. Moreso, I've felt ignorant for not listening to my intuitive voice.

[whichwayisup]

No I wasn't a victim. I think people are quick to jump to that conclusion, based on how a person post, using words like "vulnerable".

I have stated before that I was lonely and vulnerable. Because, I was.

 

I was also naive enough to believe that I could be involved with this MM and keep my emotions in tact. ...and maybe I could have, had it been a one night stand.

 

But again, no I have never felt I was a victim. Moreso, I've felt ignorant for not listening to my intuitive voice.

 

Most men, married or not, are very good at zoning in on someone's vunerabilities and (not malciously or pre planned) take advantage of the situation (selfishness) and will tell her anything and everything that she wants to hear. I don't mean to sound sexist or anything, so please, no one be offended by this, but remember waayy back when (gals?) any experiences when a guy would tell you anything/everything to get into your pants? Same type of senario, yet not as 'just about getting laid and seeing how far you'd let him go'.. hope this makes sense (it did in my head! lol)..

[Owl]

I'm of the opinion that you're either an unknowing, unwilling victim...or a knowledgeable, deliberate participant, responsible for the outcome and impacts to everyone else involved in the situation.

 

Either you're not responsible for the situation because you were unwilling or unknowing...or you're fully responsible for your actions.

 

Too many try to find that "grey middle ground'.

[Kcelleste]

There's a lot of talk of 'preying' and 'unsuspecting victims' and so on on this board lately. Didn't used to be as much. Big bad MM preys on unsuspecting vulnerable poor ickle OW.

 

Is that you? Do you believe you were set up from the start? A toy? Were you played and used?

 

I'm genuinely curious because whilst I'm aware that an affair relationship has a high chance of going 'off-course' in one way or another, my personal view is that most people are willing participants choosing to take decisions they may live to regret.

 

Happy to hear your views.

 

First I was a victim when I didn't have a clue that he was married. His wife called me and at that time we planned to marry and move in together.

 

He wanted to get a divorce and move on without his wife which oddly enough his family back on what he said.

 

I was in love and stuck on stupid to continue on the relationship thinking things will get better. It didn't, a year later after I found out he was married and "serperated". I've been manipulated into thinking that what we had was real.

 

He said he still loves me, his parents and brother said the same thing. His mom told me to stick by his side because he won't be married for long. I say it's all BS and that they're all crazy.

 

As far as i know they are still married and he is still contacting me (I've ignored him) with words of love and no action.

 

I'm dating men who are SINGLE now and it's such a huge relief. I've moved on and will never come back.

[Gentlegirl]

I was lonely, alone, vulnerable and shouldering a huge responsibility which had been going on for years. A 63 year old babe in the woods not thinking clearly.

 

Victim I was not because I chose to stay in the A for 3 years.

 

In hindsight, (I had thought) it was the only option I had for any human contact and it was certainly an escape from the horrible reality that my life was at the time.

 

Once the circumstances in my life changed, the A began to crumble and it ended in the inevitable train wreck.... thank goodness.

 

I have regained my sense of self and feel normal (ish) again after 9months NC.

 

cheers,

Genltgirl

[whichwayisup]

There's a lot of talk of 'preying' and 'unsuspecting victims' and so on on this board lately. Didn't used to be as much. Big bad MM preys on unsuspecting vulnerable poor ickle OW.

 

I really just need to ask why you use such words to describe a woman. Doesn't matter if she's an OW or not, but to call a woman poor and ickle ? It's one thing to say victim and vunerable. And the big bad MM. Why not just say MM? It's almost telling an intention of how you want this thread to be?

[wannabdone]

As I had said earlier, I don't we can generalize and put each story or person into one catagory or another. I think there is a lot of times a little of both, knowing what we are doing, and also not knowing everything, therefore putting us in a circumstance that could be labeled as victim.

 

However food for thought.... the definition of victim:

 

[sIZE=3]victim[/sIZE] [ˈvɪktɪm]

n 1. a person or thing that suffers harm, death, etc., from another or from some adverse act, circumstance, etc. [COLOR=#226699]victims of tyranny[/COLOR]

2. a person who is tricked or swindled; dupe

3. a living person or animal sacrificed in a religious rite

 

So, with the very definition of this.... I think majority of us have been victims. Most of us have suffered harm, or been tricked or swindled.

 

I don't think any of us willing go into getting hurt. I sure in the hell didn't. Again, I knew my MM was in fact M. I knew it would be hard, but I had no idea what I was in store for, the lies, the mind games. If I had, I would have NEVER DONE THIS. So, by terms of the dictionary, I fall under the definition.

 

Wonder how many people who say the same.

[Gentlegirl]

As I had said earlier, I don't we can generalize and put each story or person into one catagory or another. I think there is a lot of times a little of both, knowing what we are doing, and also not knowing everything, therefore putting us in a circumstance that could be labeled as victim.

 

However food for thought.... the definition of victim:

 

[sIZE=3]victim[/sIZE] [ˈvɪktɪm]

n 1. a person or thing that suffers harm, death, etc., from another or from some adverse act, circumstance, etc. [COLOR=#226699]victims of tyranny[/COLOR]

2. a person who is tricked or swindled; dupe

3. a living person or animal sacrificed in a religious rite

 

So, with the very definition of this.... I think majority of us have been victims. Most of us have suffered harm, or been tricked or swindled.

 

I don't think any of us willing go into getting hurt. I sure in the hell didn't. Again, I knew my MM was in fact M. I knew it would be hard, but I had no idea what I was in store for, the lies, the mind games. If I had, I would have NEVER DONE THIS. So, by terms of the dictionary, I fall under the definition.

 

Wonder how many people who say the same.

 

There are murder vicitms, road fatality vicitms, victims of fate... all kinds.

 

Many of us are vcitims of life and the cards we are dealt.

 

I would say I was a victim of being ignorant. xMM was himself a victim of sexual and emotional abuse during his early years and adolsecence. I didn't know until later in the A. He behaved in certain ways that I didn't recognise until too late.

 

Gentlegirl

[Silly_Girl]

I really just need to ask why you use such words to describe a woman. Doesn't matter if she's an OW or not, but to call a woman poor and ickle ? It's one thing to say victim and vunerable. And the big bad MM. Why not just say MM? It's almost telling an intention of how you want this thread to be?

 

Do you believe it's likely to affect how people answer? If so, how?

[woinlove]

Do you believe it's likely to affect how people answer? If so, how?

 

I think more are likely to say they are not victims.

 

I recall a thread a while back where this question was posed, not as directly, and I was on the "side" of arguing that OW/OM who initially knew MM/MW were married were not really victims, even though people could empathize with the pain some of them had. Some OW/OM disagreed with me and argued they really were victims. There the focus seemed to be more designed to connect victim=deserves empathy, not victim=no empathy (I am putting it more starkly than it actually was). So, yes, the focus does affect how people answer.

 

But, I think we all know the answers a neutrally posed question would elicit. Most OW/OM would not consider themselves victims to the extent they were aware of the situation and made choices, but to the extent they were lied to and manipulated by MM/MW they would see some victimhood. If one takes an average of this thread and the other one, that is what one sees.

[Silly_Girl]

I think more are likely to say they are not victims.

 

I recall a thread a while back where this question was posed, not as directly, and I was on the "side" of arguing that OW/OM who initially knew MM/MW were married were not really victims, even though people could empathize with the pain some of them had. Some OW/OM disagreed with me and argued they really were victims. There the focus seemed to be more designed to connect victim=deserves empathy, not victim=no empathy (I am putting it more starkly than it actually was). So, yes, the focus does affect how people answer.

 

But, I think we all know the answers a neutrally posed question would elicit. Most OW/OM would not consider themselves victims to the extent they were aware of the situation and made choices, but to the extent they were lied to and manipulated by MM/MW they would see some victimhood. If one takes an average of this thread and the other one, that is what one sees.

 

But my post was in response to reformed OW's posts, not because OWs are here posting that they ARE a victim. On the whole they're not posting in that fashion, in my view. It's a bit of a myth, or not? So far most people seem able to take a considered view. There again, I'm already showing bias

[jj33]

I really just need to ask why you use such words to describe a woman. Doesn't matter if she's an OW or not, but to call a woman poor and ickle ? It's one thing to say victim and vunerable. And the big bad MM. Why not just say MM? It's almost telling an intention of how you want this thread to be?

 

I have to agree and if a betrayed spouse had started this thread people would be calling for blood.

 

Silly its great that you are happy with your relationship and that you and your man are living happily ever after but why take shots at other people?

 

And no I was not a victim

 

And very brave of those who felt they were victims to reply to this thread where they have been denigrated and made fun of in the opening post.

[Silly_Girl]

I have to agree and if a betrayed spouse had started this thread people would be calling for blood.

 

Silly its great that you are happy with your relationship and that you and your man are living happily ever after but why take shots at other people?

 

And no I was not a victim

 

And very brave of those who felt they were victims to reply to this thread where they have been denigrated and made fun of in the opening post.

 

Shots at who?

 

There's been some really good responses from current or recent OWs. I'm surprised you're offended.

[woinlove]

But my post was in response to reformed OW's posts, not because OWs are here posting that they ARE a victim. On the whole they're not posting in that fashion, in my view. It's a bit of a myth, or not? So far most people seem able to take a considered view. There again, I'm already showing bias

 

I was simply answering your question and noting that a similarly posed topic of discussion got somewhat different responses. As I said, I agree that OW/OM are not generally victims unless they were deceived into thinking they were with a single person. I'm not sure what posts you are referring to from what you call reformed OWs. And I don't like to label others like you do.