Forgiveness

[Under The Radar]

I'm not sure if this is the correct section on LS to ask this question, but I've only posted here, so I thought I'd go ahead ...

 

Can forgiveness really come from within us? Some people say no - it must come from people you have wronged or even from a higher power like god (personally I'm agnostic).

 

There are a lot of smart and genuine people on the board that I think could shed some light on this for me. What do you guys and girls think about this?

[Under The Radar]

are some things unforgivable?

[wheelwright]

are some things unforgivable?

 

Well it's a pretty epistemological q.

 

You have to work out out both a serious and internally logical moral standpoint.

 

How many of us work on gut reaction?

 

It's not my business to forgive or not - I try not to judge, and if someone says they are sorry this feeds in.

 

However, some behaviour will forever change a R.

[Tenacity]

Forgiveness comes from within yourself.

 

Not from another person.

[Silly_Girl]

Be true to yourself.

 

I think lots of people forget to do so. And some people never really mastered it in the first place.

 

Forgiveness does come from within. That's where peace lies.

[Under The Radar]

Thanks for your comments - I've been thinking about this for a while.

[whichwayisup]

Thanks for your comments - I've been thinking about this for a while.

 

And where you on this?

 

Forgiving someone for them causing you deep pain is one thing. Forgiving yourself for doing harm done is another. Both are difficult but to move on, it's a healthier way on the healing path way.

[Under The Radar]

whichwayisup,

 

I'm leaning towards forgiveness coming from within. Sometimes, I am my own worst critic and I need to learn to be easier on myself.

[whichwayisup]

whichwayisup,

 

I'm leaning towards forgiveness coming from within. Sometimes, I am my own worst critic and I need to learn to be easier on myself.

 

Welcome to a woman's world. Most women (that i know) are harder on themselves for everything, not just forgiveness. Being your own worse critic is hard.

[TurboGirl]

Forgiveness comes from within yourself.

 

Not from another person.

 

Exactly. You are giving yourself persmission to be human. Hopefully not to repeat the same mistakes in the future.

 

That applies to having someone forgive me... some people can't forgive, and it ends up eating them alive. YOU are the one who suffers if you can't forgive. Forgiving others for me is not difficult when they ask - and I'm talking like big stuff, annoying stuff, etc. However, I have found it hardest to forgive myself. That takes alot of work and is an ongoing process.

[MissBee]

are some things unforgivable?

 

I believe in letting go of hurt/resentment/negativity and not allowing your own or another's transgression to exist perpetually and ruin your life.

 

I believe that getting to a place of peace can only come from within; as even when someone apologizes profusely, WE then have to make the choice to forgive them, as their words are not magic, do not change what happened, and an apology will not heal us....unless we make a choice to be healed. In many situations someone won't be sorry and won't care....we can go on for all eternity with that transgression weighing on us OR find a way to see it differently and gain peace. It is a similar idea as closure coming only from your choice to view a situation in a particular way and owning your power to do so versus expecting some external source to do it.

 

I do not think forgiveness is synonymous with welcoming someone back into your life or forgetting what happened and excusing the behavior or foolishly allowing them a chance to do it again. I think it is just accepting it, understanding it to the best of your ability and choosing to "rewrite" in such a way that helps you release negativity and move forward. Some transgressions PERMANENTLY damage relationships, and sometimes I think for good reason, and I do not think forgiving means going back to things post-transgression, getting to a point of being bestfriends now or some such. I do think all relationships teach lessons, many have an expiration date and many change forms during our life. I think sometimes a transgression is what allows the relationships expiration to come to the fore, or changes the relationship, and many times that is not a bad thing. My ex for example, I forgive him and myself for the situation we had, in that it no longer hurts me, I no longer feel entitled to some explanation or apology from him, I no longer feel like HE holds the keys to me moving on, I understand he is a broken human and that's all...however, no relationship is desired or can be had between us and for good reason; our life paths were not compatible, who we are, our wavelengths etc. Our time as a couple and friends expired for the better. It is not a lack of forgiveness, it is the peaceful acceptance of the current reality and realizing that our relationship was permanently changed but how it is now is fine. There is NO need to be how we were, be something more or show forgiveness by kissing and making up. I have released him from responsibility, accept the relationship/lack thereof and have let go of malice. That's forgiveness to me

Edited August 14, 2011 by MissBee

[Gentlegirl]

I believe in letting go of hurt/resentment/negativity and not allowing your own or another's transgression to exist perpetually and ruin your life.

 

I believe that getting to a place of peace can only come from within; as even when someone apologizes profusely, WE then have to make the choice to forgive them, as their words are not magic, do not change what happened, and an apology will not heal us....unless we make a choice to be healed. In many situations someone won't be sorry and won't care....we can go on for all eternity with that transgression weighing on us OR find a way to see it differently and gain peace. It is a similar idea as closure coming only from your choice to view a situation in a particular way and owning your power to do so versus expecting some external source to do it.

 

I do not think forgiveness is synonymous with welcoming someone back into your life or forgetting what happened and excusing the behavior or foolishly allowing them a chance to do it again. I think it is just accepting it, understanding it to the best of your ability and choosing to "rewrite" in such a way that helps you release negativity and move forward. Some transgressions PERMANENTLY damage relationships, and sometimes I think for good reason, and I do not think forgiving means going back to things post-transgression, getting to a point of being bestfriends now or some such. I do think all relationships teach lessons, many have an expiration date and many change forms during our life. I think sometimes a transgression is what allows the relationships expiration to come to the fore, or changes the relationship, and many times that is not a bad thing. My ex for example, I forgive him and myself for the situation we had, in that it no longer hurts me, I no longer feel entitled to some explanation or apology from him, I no longer feel like HE holds the keys to me moving on, I understand he is a broken human and that's all...however, no relationship is desired or can be had between us and for good reason; our life paths were not compatible, who we are, our wavelengths etc. Our time as a couple and friends expired for the better. It is not a lack of forgiveness, it is the peaceful acceptance of the current reality and realizing that our relationship was permanently changed but how it is now is fine. There is NO need to be how we were, be something more or show forgiveness by kissing and making up. I have released him from responsibility, accept the relationship/lack thereof and have let go of malice. That's forgiveness to me

 

Miss Bee,

 

Glad to know that you have found that inner peace and strength.

 

I have fogiven myself for the A . Definitely still having probelms releasing MM from responsibility letting go of the bitterness. Memories are fading and emotions have calmed down a bit. I am hoping in time I will find it within me to do what you have done. that would be forgiveness to me too.

 

Gentlegirl

[Under The Radar]

Turbogirl,

 

I, like you, find it easier to forgive other people than myself. Furthermore, you are right that holding on to anger, bitterness, and a refusal to forgive can negatively consume us.

[Under The Radar]

MissBee,

 

I agree with Gentlegirl - that was an awesome post; real classy and insightful. Thanks for sharing that with us

[Under The Radar]

Gentlegirl,

 

I am happy you have been able to forgive yourself for the affair. I can certainly understand how hard coming to inner peace is for some people (myself included). Regarding the MM, I know you will never forget what happened (how he left you high and dry), but I believe someday you will come to a place of peace over this too. Hang in there ...

[eleanor01]

I guess that there are (at least) four levels of forgiveness (not including forgiveness from a higher power, if you believe in one).

 

1. Forgiving yourself: I agree with other posters that it's awfully hard to forgive yourself for when you mess up. I still hate something really mean that I said to my mom 30 years ago. We fall short of our own standards sometimes and then tend to beat ourselves up for it.

 

2. Forgiving other people for things done to us: well, that can take some work, too. Sometimes forgiving things isn't much work. Sometimes, it's more work and more painful than we can bear and so forgiveness doesn't happen. This damages us, as we are eaten by our own anger.

 

3. Forgiving other people for things they have done to other people: I think that here we can get into messy issues of boundaries. Where is the thee-me line?

 

4. Accepting somebody else's forgiveness for things we've done to them. I don't think we can do this unless we forgive ourselves, first.

 

Just my thoughts.

Ellie

[Owl]

I'm going to take a leap, and "assume" that this discussion is centric around forgiveness as it relates to infidelity in some fashion.

 

I'd say that Eleanor has it right to a good degree.

 

If you were party to having "wronged" someone...then part of the healing process is learning to forgive yourself.

 

There's also a large part of this that comes in when you've wronged someone else...and that is, what have you done to set the stage for being forgiven for your actions? Have you stopped participating in the action that wronged them, or are you continuing? What have you done to try to "make amends" for your actions...to compensate them in some fashion for having wronged them?

 

And last...forgiving others who have wronged you. There's a lot that ties into the first two types of forgiveness here. What have they done to stop the action that hurt you to begin with? What have they done to work to earn forgiveness? What have they done to make amends? And lastly...often we have to learn to forgive others before we can begin forgiving ourselves.

 

But forgiving someone (or forgiving yourself) is pretty much an impossible task if they/you are still conducting the wrongful action.

[spice4life]

At this stage in my own healing I think forgiveness comes from within. If someone wrongs another and asks for forgiveness, I think are seeking their own forgiveness within. Asking for forgiveness is their way of seeking closure on the hurt they have caused. if the person they wronged refuses to forgive them, they can still find fogiveness within because they did show remorse by asking and admitting what they did. Just my 2 cents.

 

I may feel differently down the road though. I seem to uncover new ah-ha moments with each new level of healing. In other words, I might see this from a different perspective a bit down the road.

[MissBee]

Miss Bee,

 

Glad to know that you have found that inner peace and strength.

 

I have fogiven myself for the A . Definitely still having probelms releasing MM from responsibility letting go of the bitterness. Memories are fading and emotions have calmed down a bit. I am hoping in time I will find it within me to do what you have done. that would be forgiveness to me too.

 

Gentlegirl

 

Thank you

 

I do believe in time you will. It took me 2 years to completely release bitterness and responsibility.

[MissBee]

MissBee,

 

I agree with Gentlegirl - that was an awesome post; real classy and insightful. Thanks for sharing that with us

 

Thanks Training

[Under The Radar]

Eleanor01,

 

Thanks for the 4 part list you shared regarding forgiveness - it made a lot of sense to me. For me, personally, I've always found it easier to forgive others than myself. I agree that to accept forgiveness from others we must first forgive ourselves.

[Under The Radar]

Owl,

 

Thank you for the time you took to respond ...

 

I asked the question of forgiveness in a general sense, but infidelity should certainly be included in this discussion.

 

I absolutely agree that one must cease whatever wrongful actions they are perpetrating to truly forgive themselves and be forgiven.

[Under The Radar]

At this stage in my own healing I think forgiveness comes from within. If someone wrongs another and asks for forgiveness, I think are seeking their own forgiveness within. Asking for forgiveness is their way of seeking closure on the hurt they have caused. if the person they wronged refuses to forgive them, they can still find fogiveness within because they did show remorse by asking and admitting what they did. Just my 2 cents.

 

I may feel differently down the road though. I seem to uncover new ah-ha moments with each new level of healing. In other words, I might see this from a different perspective a bit down the road.

 

 

Great point - I believe this to be true. If we cannot learn to forgive ourselves then how can we expect others to forgive us? The alternative would be inner turmoil and suffering rather than eventual peace. If we learn from our mistakes and make amends then we owe it to ourselves to move forward without forsaking happiness.

[silktricks]

In my opinion, forgiveness comes from within. Though it can be helpful to hear that others forgive you for the wrongs you have done to them, until you can forgive yourself for those wrongs (and others that possibly no one but yourself even knows of) the forgiveness of other falls on somewhat deaf ears.