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When friends become affair partners does respect go out the window?


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I haven't been on LS for a while but have been lurking this week. It seems there are a few people who started affairs with friends. And then insist these friends are great people even when they are being treated like a doormat.

 

This is, anyway, the way it has happened with me. But I never saw it at the time. (For what it's worth, he wasn't married but was living with someone. Not that it matters a whole lot. He was supposed committed to someone else.)

 

It seems like allowing ourselves to be second best lowers our respect worthiness in the eyes of our "friend" and current affair partner.

 

At the time, I was doing all the double talk to myself. His girlfriend was a horror show. He was just a decent guy stuck in a tough situation. Blah blah blah. Meanwhile, I was suddenly off on the sidelines waiting for his crumbs.

 

How could he have respected me anymore? How could I respect him?

 

What do you guys think? Should we lose respect for someone who wants to have an affair with us?

Edited by Sharon1961
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Logic would dictate (to me) that my xMM had to have less respect for me because he thought he could offer me crumbs and I'd be happy with that.

 

But yet, it really doesn't seem that way. I've been out for a couple of years and I've dissected this every way possible. In all fairness, although she was still financially supported by him and they lived under the same roof, he spent so much time with me (either in person or on the phone) that it didn't seem like crumbs at all. Actually, it felt very much like a normal relationship, and the time and effort put in reflected that and was "normal" to me for that stage of the game.

 

Here's the rub...we would have been stuck there. There would have been no progression. So that's where the crumbs come in. In a regular relationship we would have evolved past that phase of dating into something more serious. He thought it was okay for us to stay there and I wanted it to go further.

 

So although he gave me a lot of time and attention, and was there for me when I needed him to be, it could never move forward. And he thought I should be okay with that. Is it from lack of respect? IDK.

 

I do know this. I lost some respect for myself. It doesn't matter one iota to me if he respected me or not. My value doesn't come from him. I put myself in a #2 position and I accepted it for a while. My focus became WHY did I do that to myself?

 

Hi sadintexas,

 

I've dissected what happened with me, too. And there is that sort of suspended in time feel to it. Which is completely unnatural. You described it well. There is no moving forward as in a normal, healthy relationship. I think affairs appeal to men and women who do well in the courtship phase but lack skills for the day-to-day down the road realities. In a way, you're always in the courtship phase in an affair.

 

To me it was always really straightforward. If we wanna be together, let's just be together. To him, it was "complicated."

 

How could he respect me when I wasn't respecting myself. When I didn't expect something real.

 

I think we tell ourselves all sorts of things to make it palatable. I don't really know any answers, even now, two years later.

 

That kind of thing changes you. It made me look at potential real relationships as wrong somehow. And it made me seek out what had become familiar.

 

I don't ever wanna be number two again!

Edited by Sharon1961
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ladydesigner
I haven't been on LS for a while but have been lurking this week. It seems there are a few people who started affairs with friends. And then insist these friends are great people even when they are being treated like a doormat.

 

This is, anyway, the way it has happened with me. But I never saw it at the time. (For what it's worth, he wasn't married but was living with someone. Not that it matters a whole lot. He was supposed committed to someone else.)

 

It seems like allowing ourselves to be second best lowers our respect worthiness in the eyes of our "friend" and current affair partner.

 

At the time, I was doing all the double talk to myself. His girlfriend was a horror show. He was just a decent guy stuck in a tough situation. Blah blah blah. Meanwhile, I was suddenly off on the sidelines waiting for his crumbs.

 

How could he have respected me anymore? How could I respect him?

 

What do you guys think? Should we lose respect for someone who wants to have an affair with us?

 

I am the MOW who had an A with an attached OM. He was my co-worker and friend long before we embarked on an EA or PA, and yes I truly believe because I crossed that line he did lose respect for me, but I also lost respect for him in that he thought it was okay to insert himself into a married person's life with children involved.

 

I honestly think that respect is lost for both sides due to the lying and sneaking around factor. How could you not lose respect for another and for yourself in that situation (not meaning you, but in general)? I certainly lost plenty of respect for myself for even getting involved in an A:sick:

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I haven't been on LS for a while but have been lurking this week. It seems there are a few people who started affairs with friends. And then insist these friends are great people even when they are being treated like a doormat.

 

This is, anyway, the way it has happened with me. But I never saw it at the time. (For what it's worth, he wasn't married but was living with someone. Not that it matters a whole lot. He was supposed committed to someone else.)

 

It seems like allowing ourselves to be second best lowers our respect worthiness in the eyes of our "friend" and current affair partner.

 

At the time, I was doing all the double talk to myself. His girlfriend was a horror show. He was just a decent guy stuck in a tough situation. Blah blah blah. Meanwhile, I was suddenly off on the sidelines waiting for his crumbs.

 

How could he have respected me anymore? How could I respect him?

 

What do you guys think? Should we lose respect for someone who wants to have an affair with us?

 

Being romantically involved with friends, in general, can be a weird situation if it doesn't work out. Your romantic partner should be your friend but it's really a different friendship than a platonic one and there is a whole new set of rules.

 

Adding an affair to the mix of romance and friendship strains the friendship even more. I don't think it's a matter of should we lose respect, so much as it's a matter of, does it inevitably happen? Often times in affairs, you do have to take the back burner, do have to witness this person lying and sneaking around, have to sneak around yourself, that stress and strain can cause disillusion to set in. I think it is normal that after seeing them in a certain light, they may look a little less shiny.

 

I realize from LS that not everyone thinks affairs are wrong, but nevertheless many other people do; even if they are participating or have participated, and at the least it's something a lot of people hide. I think for someone who is of that mind (that it is wrong or they hide it) there is probably going to be more disillusion and more latent or obvious feelings of disillusion with their AP. I know for me there was. I loved him but every time he lied to his gf or was concocting some plan or had to put me on the back burner or mentioned certain things that brought the reality of the situation home, I felt resentment for him. I even told him that even when I don't talk about "the situation" and even though I don't necessarily obsess about it, it is ALWAYS there and every day or week there is SOMETHING that happens that makes me feel upset or resentful of him. We weren't friends before....so even more so I can imagine with friends how that would take a toll on the friendship.

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Logic would dictate (to me) that my xMM had to have less respect for me because he thought he could offer me crumbs and I'd be happy with that.

 

But yet, it really doesn't seem that way. I've been out for a couple of years and I've dissected this every way possible. In all fairness, although she was still financially supported by him and they lived under the same roof, he spent so much time with me (either in person or on the phone) that it didn't seem like crumbs at all. Actually, it felt very much like a normal relationship, and the time and effort put in reflected that and was "normal" to me for that stage of the game.

 

Here's the rub...we would have been stuck there. There would have been no progression. So that's where the crumbs come in. In a regular relationship we would have evolved past that phase of dating into something more serious. He thought it was okay for us to stay there and I wanted it to go further.

 

So although he gave me a lot of time and attention, and was there for me when I needed him to be, it could never move forward. And he thought I should be okay with that. Is it from lack of respect? IDK.

 

I do know this. I lost some respect for myself. It doesn't matter one iota to me if he respected me or not. My value doesn't come from him. I put myself in a #2 position and I accepted it for a while. My focus became WHY did I do that to myself?

I think this is quite interesting. There are many available men out there who don't want anything beyond a dating relationship. Nothing serious. Nothing heavy. How many available men think they are casually dating when the woman asks "where are we going with this?" Typical cliche moment of male panic.

 

Sorry to TJ - it just struck a chord..... many relationships whether in real life or affair oriented mirror each other.

 

As for loss of respect..... I don't know. Depends on the mind set of the wayward one. Who said "I wouldn't want to belong to any club that would have me as a member"? In that instance, the wayward has no respect for himself and probably projects that disrespect and self-loathing onto the AP.

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Logic would dictate (to me) that my xMM had to have less respect for me because he thought he could offer me crumbs and I'd be happy with that.

 

But yet, it really doesn't seem that way. I've been out for a couple of years and I've dissected this every way possible. In all fairness, although she was still financially supported by him and they lived under the same roof, he spent so much time with me (either in person or on the phone) that it didn't seem like crumbs at all. Actually, it felt very much like a normal relationship, and the time and effort put in reflected that and was "normal" to me for that stage of the game.

 

Here's the rub...we would have been stuck there. There would have been no progression. So that's where the crumbs come in. In a regular relationship we would have evolved past that phase of dating into something more serious. He thought it was okay for us to stay there and I wanted it to go further.

 

So although he gave me a lot of time and attention, and was there for me when I needed him to be, it could never move forward. And he thought I should be okay with that. Is it from lack of respect? IDK.

 

I do know this. I lost some respect for myself. It doesn't matter one iota to me if he respected me or not. My value doesn't come from him. I put myself in a #2 position and I accepted it for a while. My focus became WHY did I do that to myself?

 

That was my exact experience as well.

 

I often wondered when he spoke to his gf as he was ALWAYS speaking with me and the amount of time I got seemed like a normal relationship. However, as you said, there was always that knowledge that it wouldn't be more and there was no progress. We were in NC for a year and in his "return contact" he said the same thing, about him knowing I wanted more and that I certainly deserved it and he wanted more too but couldn't give it. But in the same breath he said he knew I was "okay" with what we had (he put it in quotations too)....:eek: When I read it, I was like what? How can he think that???!!!! But as I discuss it now, I get it....it was that contradiction of wanting more but clearly being "okay" with it on another level because I persisted with the situation for quite a while. Some days I wanted more than others and I stuck around for the times we did have and tried to "appreciate them" until it got to a point where I felt like I was fooling myself.

 

I don't think it's a conscious process of disrespecting the person....but the whole situation lends to you pushing their boundaries and them accepting it and the whole dance, often by proxy, allows for less than the utmost respect for yourself and your actions as well as theirs.

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TurningTables

I can totally relate to your question. My xMM and I have been friends for 20+ years, when we became best friends for the last two. For the past year or so, we were having a EA, which was close to turning to a PA before we slammed the breaks on our friendship. Im in NC for almost 2 weeks ( 2nd try lol )

 

Anyways, Ive spent alot of time looking back, going over on how I let things get out of hand. When the EA really started, everything was fine. I didnt realize what it was until months and months later. After this, trying to decide what to do, it turned me into the worst person imaginable!I wasent "me" anymore. Our beautiful friendship has turned into something ugly and sordid. I said things that no person would ever deserve. So yes, to answer your question, I lost all respect for myself, him and the whole friendship. :sick:

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fooled once
I haven't been on LS for a while but have been lurking this week. It seems there are a few people who started affairs with friends. And then insist these friends are great people even when they are being treated like a doormat.

 

This is, anyway, the way it has happened with me. But I never saw it at the time. (For what it's worth, he wasn't married but was living with someone. Not that it matters a whole lot. He was supposed committed to someone else.)

 

It seems like allowing ourselves to be second best lowers our respect worthiness in the eyes of our "friend" and current affair partner.

 

At the time, I was doing all the double talk to myself. His girlfriend was a horror show. He was just a decent guy stuck in a tough situation. Blah blah blah. Meanwhile, I was suddenly off on the sidelines waiting for his crumbs.

 

How could he have respected me anymore? How could I respect him?

 

What do you guys think? Should we lose respect for someone who wants to have an affair with us?

 

I agree. I don't think these 'great guys' have respect for their affair partner or their wife. They are looking for their next ..... you know.

 

Yeah, I personally have little respect for the MM or MW OR the OW or OM who willingly put themselves in affairs. And no, it isn't an accident when someone has an affair. ;)

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Thanks for all the great responses!

 

Something good I can say now is I am 100 percent certain that I will never think an affair with someone committed elsewhere is okay for me. During the last two years I have taken a long hard look at myself and pulled myself out of the hiding place I was in. It sure was dark in there!

 

I know this is a broad statement but my feeling is we get into affairs as OW/OM because something in us doesn't feel we deserve better. And I think that the person we become involved with knows this and looks down on it.

 

Sure, he/she would like the long talks, sex, attention... but they don't LIKE us enough to be with us. And on some level that bounces back to us and confirms the message that we don't deserve better.

 

There is no respect anywhere in the equation. At least that's how I see it.

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I agree. I don't think these 'great guys' have respect for their affair partner or their wife. They are looking for their next ..... you know.

 

Yeah, I personally have little respect for the MM or MW OR the OW or OM who willingly put themselves in affairs. And no, it isn't an accident when someone has an affair. ;)

Just curious and please don't take offense, but why do you post here if you have "little respect" for pretty much every single person that posts here? How can you have any empathy?

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Thanks for all the great responses!

 

Something good I can say now is I am 100 percent certain that I will never think an affair with someone committed elsewhere is okay for me. During the last two years I have taken a long hard look at myself and pulled myself out of the hiding place I was in. It sure was dark in there!

 

I know this is a broad statement but my feeling is we get into affairs as OW/OM because something in us doesn't feel we deserve better. And I think that the person we become involved with knows this and looks down on it.

 

Sure, he/she would like the long talks, sex, attention... but they don't LIKE us enough to be with us. And on some level that bounces back to us and confirms the message that we don't deserve better.

 

There is no respect anywhere in the equation. At least that's how I see it.

Yes, to the bolded. But the married person in the equation likely does not like themselves either (this is with the non-serial style cheater).

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Yes, to the bolded. But the married person in the equation likely does not like themselves either (this is with the non-serial style cheater).

 

Yes, I think you're right. And I think a big part of the equation is a sense of validation. Of relief that someone wants us, and that must mean we're not so bad after all. But then they really don't want us after all so they validate what we first felt. And both feelings are a rush. But at least now someone wants sex with us.

 

Ugh.

 

I think if a married or involved friend wanted an affair now I would lose respect for them. And probably never forgive them.

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heartinlove

This is an interesting thread. I kind of disagree with whats been posted. If you have a true friendship, why do you lose respect for each other through the affair. A true friendship is where there is communication and understanding and wanting the best for each other. People who actually really like themselves and feel they deserve a great life sometimes get involved in affairs.

 

I feel like I nor the MM have lost the friendship or our respect for each other. Through all the ups and downs we have been kind to each other. We are both aware that at some point that either we will be together or we will have to let go of each other completely to set each other free.

 

I think you only lose respect if you aren't clear what you ultimately want out of a situation or the other person doesn't really respect what you want out of a situation and doesn't work towards resolution. I don't know what my ultimate outcome will be, but I know we will either be together or end this lovingly and go our own ways with the respect we always have had will be there even if there is heartache.

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ladydesigner
This is an interesting thread. I kind of disagree with whats been posted. If you have a true friendship, why do you lose respect for each other through the affair. A true friendship is where there is communication and understanding and wanting the best for each other. People who actually really like themselves and feel they deserve a great life sometimes get involved in affairs.

 

I feel like I nor the MM have lost the friendship or our respect for each other. Through all the ups and downs we have been kind to each other. We are both aware that at some point that either we will be together or we will have to let go of each other completely to set each other free.

 

I think you only lose respect if you aren't clear what you ultimately want out of a situation or the other person doesn't really respect what you want out of a situation and doesn't work towards resolution. I don't know what my ultimate outcome will be, but I know we will either be together or end this lovingly and go our own ways with the respect we always have had will be there even if there is heartache.

 

I wish you the best with this and really hope your ending does end with respect.

 

Honestly how can there be respect when there is lying and dishonesty surrounding an A. All affairs.

 

Looking back now at my own situation, there is nothing respectful about deceiving another human being. I deceived 2, my H and my XOM's girlfriend. That is not respectful.

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This is an interesting thread. I kind of disagree with whats been posted. If you have a true friendship, why do you lose respect for each other through the affair. A true friendship is where there is communication and understanding and wanting the best for each other. People who actually really like themselves and feel they deserve a great life sometimes get involved in affairs.

 

I feel like I nor the MM have lost the friendship or our respect for each other. Through all the ups and downs we have been kind to each other. We are both aware that at some point that either we will be together or we will have to let go of each other completely to set each other free.

 

I think you only lose respect if you aren't clear what you ultimately want out of a situation or the other person doesn't really respect what you want out of a situation and doesn't work towards resolution. I don't know what my ultimate outcome will be, but I know we will either be together or end this lovingly and go our own ways with the respect we always have had will be there even if there is heartache.

 

Hi heartinlove, Thank you for the perspective. I have thought a lot about all of this. I thought my "good friend" and I respected one another and nothing really bad would ever come of what we were doing. Like you, I thought if it ended it would be a mutual, respectful parting of the ways.

 

This was someone I had known 8 years, with the affair the last two years. I finally decided that I could never have what I wanted in my life as long as he was in my life. Because what I wanted was someone who wanted me and only me. Someone who was a part of my day-to-day life and vice versa.

 

Long story short, his live-in girlfriend found out. And he denied it all. Said I was making it up. I got a one sentence email telling me basically to f**k off. That was the last I heard from him.

 

In hindsight, I realize that I had no reason to expect respect or to trust him. He was cheating on someone who trusted him. Using me as a coping mechanism basically.

 

It was such a mess.

 

True friendships are, in my opinion, based on honesty, trust, caring and respect. And I don't care what anyone says, no guy is gonna respect a woman when she is putting out for him for crumbs.

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A true friendship is where there is communication and understanding and wanting the best for each other.

 

This is true, and also why I don't think true friends will engage in affairs together.

 

A true friend who wants the best for you won't involve you in their messed up marriage. They want BETTER for you, even if their life is currently sucky.

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ladydesigner
This is true, and also why I don't think true friends will engage in affairs together.

 

A true friend who wants the best for you won't involve you in their messed up marriage. They want BETTER for you, even if their life is currently sucky.

 

Exactly! It isn't a friendship once it has crossed over into a EA/PA.

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This is true, and also why I don't think true friends will engage in affairs together.

 

A true friend who wants the best for you won't involve you in their messed up marriage. They want BETTER for you, even if their life is currently sucky.

 

I think so too. Well that's the kind of good friend I'd want anyway.

 

Likewise, if I meet my soulmate when he is with another, I'd like for him to love me that much to spare me an affair and I would love and respect him more if he ended things before pursuing me. That's my personal feeling and conditions for me feeling love, respect and trust.

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This is true, and also why I don't think true friends will engage in affairs together.

 

A true friend who wants the best for you won't involve you in their messed up marriage. They want BETTER for you, even if their life is currently sucky.

 

This fairly well sums up what I was getting at with my initial question. It is how I feel.

 

An affair is not what anyone would want for someone they care about, I imagine.

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I think so too. Well that's the kind of good friend I'd want anyway.

 

Likewise, if I meet my soulmate when he is with another, I'd like for him to love me that much to spare me an affair and I would love and respect him more if he ended things before pursuing me. That's my personal feeling and conditions for me feeling love, respect and trust.

 

YES. Well said.

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fooled once
Just curious and please don't take offense, but why do you post here if you have "little respect" for pretty much every single person that posts here? How can you have any empathy?

 

I can be empathetic. There are a lot of women here who are young or naive or inexperienced who find themselves in a situation where they have been manipulated or lied to. I don't agree with the choice they make and for the most part, I have zippo respect for the man who does this to a woman. I definitely don't agree with going along and participating in an affair and hurting innocent people.

 

And I don't have to respect someone's choices. I guess that was the operative word I forgot - I don't respect the choices the OM/OW &/or MM/MW make.

 

And LadyDesigner, you nailed it!!

 

Honestly how can there be respect when there is lying and dishonesty surrounding an A.
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heartinlove
I wish you the best with this and really hope your ending does end with respect.

 

Honestly how can there be respect when there is lying and dishonesty surrounding an A. All affairs.

 

Looking back now at my own situation, there is nothing respectful about deceiving another human being. I deceived 2, my H and my XOM's girlfriend. That is not respectful.

 

I was not saying I think affairs are good for anyone or advocating lying and cheating. I am actually amazed how easy it is to be drawn into an affair if the circumstances are right when I never thought I would ever be in one. Interestingly, recently I have two friends who have been tempted by affairs and after my experience I told both of them do not go there, it is hell for everyone.

 

The question was about respect. Can you still have it in a friendship after the line is crossed. And all I was saying is that it doesn't always have to be lost especially if those in the affair get the affair is wrong and look to get out of it. MM and I ended physical affair. We still talk at times. I know that is still an emotional affair. But we both know that either he needs to leave the marriage or we need to end communication and complete our friendship. We both get there is no going back to just a friendship. Admittedly, if I was stronger, I see it would be best to end communication until he makes a decision but Im working on that.

 

We are both moving away from the affair and in the future it will be decided one way or another, and hopefully at that point we will still respect each other whichever way this goes. Thats all I was saying.

 

Neither one of us feels proud of the affair part, but we both acknowledge that neither one of us has ever done something like this and we are human and maybe didn't always make the right choices. Until this affair, neither one of us has ever struggled so much with morality and doing the right thing so severely. It just gives me alot of compassion for those who are in this situation whichever part of the triangle they are in.

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Assuming that one or both of the "friends" are married, involved, etc... yes. No more respect or friendly feelings or considering once you start sleeping together. That ends it... as you saw, they are quick to through you under the bus and be mean, all for self preservation.

 

Yes I do think men and women can be friends but you have to be very clear there with the boundaries, because IMHO, once you cross that line it's over. The friendship as it was has a very slim chance of ever being there again. Especially in a case such as the one that you endured, Sharon. You are right - no guy is gonna respect a women who is putting out for him for crumbs.

 

Just goes to show that many of the MM or involved guys are wannabe cake eaters... haveing the home life and a little sugar on the side.

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The question was about respect. Can you still have it in a friendship after the line is crossed. And all I was saying is that it doesn't always have to be lost especially if those in the affair get the affair is wrong and look to get out of it. MM and I ended physical affair. We still talk at times. I know that is still an emotional affair. But we both know that either he needs to leave the marriage or we need to end communication and complete our friendship. We both get there is no going back to just a friendship. Admittedly, if I was stronger, I see it would be best to end communication until he makes a decision but Im working on that.

 

Neither one of us feels proud of the affair part, but we both acknowledge that neither one of us has ever done something like this and we are human and maybe didn't always make the right choices. Until this affair, neither one of us has ever struggled so much with morality and doing the right thing so severely. It just gives me alot of compassion for those who are in this situation whichever part of the triangle they are in.

 

I think he has made his decision. He is staying with his wife. It sounds like he feels that sleeping with you was a mistake. Maybe he is managing you now. Trying to keep status quo.

 

If he loved and respected you he would not feel that sleeping with you was a mistake. He would have done something right away to fix the situation. And if he respected you he would never let you wait for "his decision" now.

 

Or, quite frankly, he never would have let it happen in the first place.

 

Yes, people make mistakes. But, I am coming to believe that it is possible to keep from being in those situations.

 

How much respect do you think you are accruing with him now that you are waiting for him?

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Assuming that one or both of the "friends" are married, involved, etc... yes. No more respect or friendly feelings or considering once you start sleeping together. That ends it... as you saw, they are quick to through you under the bus and be mean, all for self preservation.

 

Yes I do think men and women can be friends but you have to be very clear there with the boundaries, because IMHO, once you cross that line it's over. The friendship as it was has a very slim chance of ever being there again. Especially in a case such as the one that you endured, Sharon. You are right - no guy is gonna respect a women who is putting out for him for crumbs.

 

Just goes to show that many of the MM or involved guys are wannabe cake eaters... haveing the home life and a little sugar on the side.

 

I agree, obviously. The way some men are wired they can convince themselves that the woman threw themselves at the guy. And, well, it is the woman's fault.

 

No guy is gonna respect a woman who is putting out for crumbs.

 

I do have guy friends. And I swear if another one of them that is committed elsewhere ever put a move on me I would end the friendship in two seconds. But, I am also more careful now to only befriend honest, decent guys and to make MY boundaries clear.

 

I think if we have self-respect then those boundaries are very easy to maintain. It really comes down to us. Nobody can force us.

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