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"All's Fair in Love and War"


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"If he loves you, he'll move mountains to be with you"...

 

Yet when he does (OK, she wasn't quite as big as a mountain...), the nay-sayers don't clasp their hands in delight at the manifestation of true love trouncing the adversity that threatened to obstruct it, instead they mutter darkly about "what he did with you, he'll do to you".

 

That's fine - he made love with me, I'm quite happy for him to make love to me, too :love: :love: :love:

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If all was fair in love and war...I'd have combined the two.

 

It wouldn't have been pretty.

 

Good thing that this is just a (silly, IMHO) expression.

 

And looking at your post, Owoman...I'd have to tell you that "what he did with HER, he did to HER".

 

I'm just saying that you shouldn't discount that advice as totally irrelevent...it's got a good basis in reality. If cheating is "successful" once, it sets the stage for it to happen again when/if things change further down the line.

 

Send me a PM 10-15 years from now and let me know whether or not this panned out in your case.

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Or maybe everyone entering a relationship should PM Owl in 10-15 years time and a proper comparison can be made. ;)

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"All's Fair in Love and War"

 

No - I don't agree at all. Too many dreadful things are done in the name of love or being on the "right" side in a war.

 

"If he loves you, he'll move mountains to be with you"...

 

Hmm - there's some truth in this. But from looking at LS it doesn't happen all that often.

 

Yet when he does (OK, she wasn't quite as big as a mountain...), the nay-sayers don't clasp their hands in delight at the manifestation of true love trouncing the adversity that threatened to obstruct it, instead they mutter darkly about "what he did with you, he'll do to you".

 

I haven't done any muttering about this, dark or otherwise. I'm always in favour when true love triumphs. It's certainly a possibility that he'll do it again but this applies equally to a BW like me. Let's face it, we're both married to cheaters.

 

That's fine - he made love with me, I'm quite happy for him to make love to me, too :love: :love: :love:

 

Well of course, but I think the idea is to recognise a pattern of behaviour. In my case when I married I didn't know I was marrying a cheater. Now I do. I'd consider myself a fool if I now buried my head in the sand about it.

 

My comments above in bold.

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And in those circumstances when mountains do NOT get moved, even after an A that has lasted sometimes half a decade.....?

 

It would seem to me that someone wants their bread buttered on both sides in that instance.

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And in those circumstances when mountains do NOT get moved, even after an A that has lasted sometimes half a decade.....?

 

It would seem to me that someone wants their bread buttered on both sides in that instance.

 

That's not what the post was about and is therefore pretty much making OWoman's point for her.

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I am happy for you. I really am but most affairs don't end this way. It's like winning the lottery.

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I hate the saying "all's fair in love and war" and have never believed nor agreed with it.

 

That said, I think it IS true that if someone truly loves you they will move mountains to be with you. They will endure adversity, just as you and your husband did to be with each other.

 

I don't think that "once a cheater always a cheater", but as I said in another thread, I do believe that some types of actions "enable" cheating. IMO, those types of actions are best avoided by all people, not just ones who have cheated in the past, as cheating is not exclusively performed by those who have cheated before... :p

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Mme. Chaucer
:o Not sure the purpose of this post.

 

Where are people supposed to clasp their hands in delight?

 

You aren't an OW anymore so why do you continue to make remarks as if you are an OW? And you still have to take pot shots at his wife. You won, OW. Why the need to continue to belittle a woman and gloat that you got her man?

 

*clap clap* Good for you. You got that guy!

 

NO KIDDING.

 

First of all, I hate that saying too. I don't believe it's true; never have.

 

I am really baffled, OWoman, about your absolute commitment to continuing to identify yourself in the role you used to play in another time of your life, complete with the requisite gloating and trashing of the woman who you "beat" in the contest for the apparent "prize" that is her ex, and your current husband.

 

Even though I don't like cheating and can't champion it, ever, I DO like happy marriages and evidently you have one.

 

Why don't you get a new user name and move on to other areas of LS and maybe even in real life? Share advice about how to have a good marriage; ask for help with any issues you may have, like the rest of us here. Most of us are not continuously mired in the circumstances of how we got our mate as time goes on. Seems healthier to focus on the present and leave the past in the past.

 

The way you carry on, it almost makes me think that much of your happiness depends upon the debasement of another person. Also, makes me think that "the lady doth protest too much." That's a useful saying that I often enjoy!

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NO KIDDING.

 

First of all, I hate that saying too. I don't believe it's true; never have.

 

I am really baffled, OWoman, about your absolute commitment to continuing to identify yourself in the role you used to play in another time of your life, complete with the requisite gloating and trashing of the woman who you "beat" in the contest for the apparent "prize" that is her ex, and your current husband.

 

Even though I don't like cheating and can't champion it, ever, I DO like happy marriages and evidently you have one.

 

Why don't you get a new user name and move on to other areas of LS and maybe even in real life? Share advice about how to have a good marriage; ask for help with any issues you may have, like the rest of us here. Most of us are not continuously mired in the circumstances of how we got our mate as time goes on. Seems healthier to focus on the present and leave the past in the past.

 

The way you carry on, it almost makes me think that much of your happiness depends upon the debasement of another person. Also, makes me think that "the lady doth protest too much." That's a useful saying that I often enjoy!

 

OWoman, I'm sure I have no influence, but please DON'T move on. You have a wealth of experience to share, much more than many other posters here who are quite hostile to those who don't subscribe to their rules.

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fooled once
OWoman, I'm sure I have no influence, but please DON'T move on. You have a wealth of experience to share, much more than many other posters here who are quite hostile to those who don't subscribe to their rules.

 

What "rules" are you talking about Silly?

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Interesting choice of topic title the original comes from a modern take on the following -The English Forum explains it better than I:

 

All's fair in love and war," quotes Frank Farleigh (1850, by Francis Edward Smedley, 1818 - 1864) and is the popular paraphrase of "Love and War are the same thing, and stratagems and polity are as allowable in the one as in the other." - Miguel de Cervantes (1547 - 1616), Don Quixote (1605 -1615)'

 

Which would suggest that the comparison between the two, Love and War, allows for the same strategy or plan when approaching or dealing with either. I have to say I disagree with this when applied to A's. In a war both sides are aware there is conflict, both sides plan and arm themselves with appropriate weapons, depending on their 'enemy' and both sides are aware that there is a desired outcome. If the BS is the enemy, of either the OP or AP then, for there to be a conflict the BS needs to be aware they are engaging in a battle - to use the war analogy.

As most BS are unaware the MP has a foot in both camps, it is more akin to espionage or being a double agent. With the WS feeding both sides the necessary information to maintain ther desired outcome.

 

As to not wishing peple who are married and in love happiness, well I certainly wish that. I also wish that all WS who tell their BS that they love them while telling another the same would grow some and leave one or the other. From what I have read from most BS especially those who have succesfully reconciled, the mantra on D Day was if you love the OP, then go. But few do.

 

In your case OWoman, your now husband made the decision to leave after trying to make it work for some years, having an awful time and then meeting and falling in love with you. In your instance, it has worked and I am glad for you. I never say once a cheater always a cheater, but having been married for 20+ years when H had his A, I would never say I knew anybody as well as I thought anymore. I hope you never feel the pain of an A, truly.

 

Yes, I do think love can move mountains, the number of succesful recconciled marriages bears witness to that, an A was the biggest mountain H and I have ever had to climb, but we have. Most of us recognise that A's are not the best way of beginning a relationship if only out of empathy for the hurt of another. I include the hurt of an OP being strung along while/if the WS makes a decision. If we are going to war as a comparison to love, then there will always be a casualty, some survive, some don't, but someone is always damaged in some way. I vote for the talks and sanctions model, everything on the table, all sides knowing there is even a conflict about to take place - I so hate the wars when one is a smiling knife, ready to say one thing to your face and stab you in the back while doing so.

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fooled once
Interesting choice of topic title the original comes from a modern take on the following -The English Forum explains it better than I:

 

All's fair in love and war," quotes Frank Farleigh (1850, by Francis Edward Smedley, 1818 - 1864) and is the popular paraphrase of "Love and War are the same thing, and stratagems and polity are as allowable in the one as in the other." - Miguel de Cervantes (1547 - 1616), Don Quixote (1605 -1615)'

 

Which would suggest that the comparison between the two, Love and War, allows for the same strategy or plan when approaching or dealing with either. I have to say I disagree with this when applied to A's. In a war both sides are aware there is conflict, both sides plan and arm themselves with appropriate weapons, depending on their 'enemy' and both sides are aware that there is a desired outcome. If the BS is the enemy, of either the OP or AP then, for there to be a conflict the BS needs to be aware they are engaging in a battle - to use the war analogy.

As most BS are unaware the MP has a foot in both camps, it is more akin to espionage or being a double agent. With the WS feeding both sides the necessary information to maintain ther desired outcome.

 

As to not wishing peple who are married and in love happiness, well I certainly wish that. I also wish that all WS who tell their BS that they love them while telling another the same would grow some and leave one or the other. From what I have read from most BS especially those who have succesfully reconciled, the mantra on D Day was if you love the OP, then go. But few do.

 

In your case OWoman, your now husband made the decision to leave after trying to make it work for some years, having an awful time and then meeting and falling in love with you. In your instance, it has worked and I am glad for you. I never say once a cheater always a cheater, but having been married for 20+ years when H had his A, I would never say I knew anybody as well as I thought anymore. I hope you never feel the pain of an A, truly.

 

Yes, I do think love can move mountains, the number of succesful recconciled marriages bears witness to that, an A was the biggest mountain H and I have ever had to climb, but we have. Most of us recognise that A's are not the best way of beginning a relationship if only out of empathy for the hurt of another. I include the hurt of an OP being strung along while/if the WS makes a decision. If we are going to war as a comparison to love, then there will always be a casualty, some survive, some don't, but someone is always damaged in some way. I vote for the talks and sanctions model, everything on the table, all sides knowing there is even a conflict about to take place - I so hate the wars when one is a smiling knife, ready to say one thing to your face and stab you in the back while doing so.

 

Seren,

 

I completely agree with what you wrote.

 

You truly have a gift of writing! I could read your posts all day long. I am very impressed with how you and your H have reconciled and I wish you and he many, many, many more years of love and happiness. :love:

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desertIslandCactus
Maybe the ex-wife is a member of this forum.

 

Seems that if she were, we would have read the whole story .. or as Paul Harvey said: The Rest of the story .. :)

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All IS fair in love and war. As much as I hate it. I can't MAKE people love me; nor can they make me love them. People love whom they love, or not. That's fair to me. End of story.

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Ooooookkkaaayyyyyyyy!

So I don't know you, but your avatar's cute and your post kinda well, seemed pointless. Couldn't figure WTH?

So I checked out somma your posts.

 

You are very insecure.

No one as secure as you say you are would post stuff like this. They would move on with their lives.

Kinda sad for you.

 

Be well.

 

Hey, I am glad things worked out for OWoman. She found the love of her life... everything isn't always black & white, and everyone isn't meant to stay with the person they might be married to at the moment. I think OW is making everyone aware that sometimes things DO work out in this situation. Just sayin' here...

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NOTHING is fair in war! It depends on the circumstances if love is fair or not. Love - Call me cynical but most times it is not fair and many times very unkind with the exception of innocent and childlike love that has no expectations such as the love most mothers feel for their babies.

 

BTW....it's good that you are happy in your marriage. I'm happy for you.

 

I think you misunderstood the meaning of the saying or cliche'.

 

Here's my favorite explanation of this saying:

 

"All is fair in LOVE and WAR":

 

"You have to pay special attention to 'All' in "All is Fair in Love and War." 'All' in this context is meant to express that nothing is out of bounds when it comes to love and war. Everything is fair game. You might misinterpret this phrase to mean that "love and war is fair," this is likely a common misconception."

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White Flower
Interesting choice of topic title the original comes from a modern take on the following -The English Forum explains it better than I:

 

All's fair in love and war," quotes Frank Farleigh (1850, by Francis Edward Smedley, 1818 - 1864) and is the popular paraphrase of "Love and War are the same thing, and stratagems and polity are as allowable in the one as in the other." - Miguel de Cervantes (1547 - 1616), Don Quixote (1605 -1615)'

 

Which would suggest that the comparison between the two, Love and War, allows for the same strategy or plan when approaching or dealing with either. I have to say I disagree with this when applied to A's. In a war both sides are aware there is conflict, both sides plan and arm themselves with appropriate weapons, depending on their 'enemy' and both sides are aware that there is a desired outcome. If the BS is the enemy, of either the OP or AP then, for there to be a conflict the BS needs to be aware they are engaging in a battle - to use the war analogy.

[/Quote]

 

Seren, you know you are my fave rave but I'm going to disagree with a tiny part of your awesome post. What about ambush warfare such as we saw in Viet Nam? In previous wars a line was drawn and strict rules were adhered to by both sides, but in ambush warfare you have surprise attacks. And TBH, I'm sure all warriors during all wars participated in some kind of rule-breaking in order to win.

 

The phrase comes from the idea that wherever there are rules, they were meant to be broken for the greater good. The greater good could be ending slavery (war game) or claiming ones right to true love (love game) so that the outcome would be greater for ALL whether they (the losing party) believe it to be true or not.

 

I think we can all agree that slavery was bad, but there were hundreds of thousands of men who were willing to fight for it to remain a part of daily life before they conceded. Likewise, many BS fight to the tooth to keep a M alive, even if the other party no longer loves them. I am not comparing affairs to slavery, BTW, I'm comparing the ferver and passion of individuals who fight for what they believe in, no matter the lack of wisdom involved with backing that passion.

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White Flower
I think you misunderstood the meaning of the saying or cliche'.

 

Here's my favorite explanation of this saying:

 

"All is fair in LOVE and WAR":

 

"You have to pay special attention to 'All' in "All is Fair in Love and War." 'All' in this context is meant to express that nothing is out of bounds when it comes to love and war. Everything is fair game. You might misinterpret this phrase to mean that "love and war is fair," this is likely a common misconception."

Yes Tami, focusing on the right word changes the entire concept! And it isn't a phrase to be disagreed with, as in a personal belief; it is a phrase that describes a given situation. One either understands it or they don't.
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White Flower
NO KIDDING.

 

First of all, I hate that saying too. I don't believe it's true; never have.

 

I am really baffled, OWoman, about your absolute commitment to continuing to identify yourself in the role you used to play in another time of your life, complete with the requisite gloating and trashing of the woman who you "beat" in the contest for the apparent "prize" that is her ex, and your current husband.

 

Even though I don't like cheating and can't champion it, ever, I DO like happy marriages and evidently you have one.

 

Why don't you get a new user name and move on to other areas of LS and maybe even in real life? Share advice about how to have a good marriage; ask for help with any issues you may have, like the rest of us here. Most of us are not continuously mired in the circumstances of how we got our mate as time goes on. Seems healthier to focus on the present and leave the past in the past.

 

The way you carry on, it almost makes me think that much of your happiness depends upon the debasement of another person. Also, makes me think that "the lady doth protest too much." That's a useful saying that I often enjoy!

I don't see anything wrong with Owoman identifying herself as a fOW, now MW. She never hid her A IRL, nor did her fMM, now H, so why would she want to sweep it under the rug now?

 

There are plenty of examples here of OW who lost their MM (to the ugly war games being played), so I think it's great that Owoman continues to offer support and food for thought to those who might find themselves in a similar situation. It would be far easier for her to move on and forget us, but she remains as selfless as ever. I raise my hat in honor of her for staying.

 

It is often said that BS win more often than OP. Funny, you'd think they like the phrase, 'All's fair in love and war'.

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Maybe the ex-wife is a member of this forum.

 

I very much doubt it. She would consider an internet forum beneath her dignity. If she doesn't read something in The Times, it doesn't exist.

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