So stuck

[lovingagain]

I have been seeing MM for two years. We have ended three times. He has suffered mentally and physically. He has cried and expressed total confusion about where to go from here. He has talked about just running away. His W is very demanding and controlling and his extended family are too and he feels a strong commitment to them and has enormous responsibilities which way heavily on him with them.

He has recently admitted that he married far too young, that he just exists for his children that he does not have a relationship at all with his W. (Please do not say this is a lie as I did not ask him, he took 2 years to tell me this and he does not gain anything by saying it).

I have never put pressure on him to leave but the guilt is killing him. He has wanted to tell W but I stopped him as he did not know what he was doing it for and had not thought it through.

I love him like I have never loved anyone and I know he feels the same but its tearing him apart. We have had several breaks with very emotional reunions. The thought of NC is not an option as we have tried this. Not seeing him is not an option for me either. I know I should just walk away but it is impossible. I have no will to do this. The relationship is very passionate and crazy with lots of deep emotional moments. We both feel like we have never felt before. I am not going to ask him to leave. He has talked about being on his own to think it through but ends up just blindly carrying on until he has a mental crash.

 

Recently he has said that we should see each other from now on and just talk, like friends, nothing physical at all. Meet in public places. He won't even touch my hand. This is not a long term option for me as I crave his love. And it is not that he does not find me physically attractive anymore I know that for definite. He just does not see this as an affair if we are doing this and would handle it better. But it is still isn't it?

My question is, can it work, what will it solve just seeing him platonically for a while? Has anyone done this? He said he has resolved to never being happy in his M with me or without me but can't escape it.

Edited April 18, 2010 by lovingagain
type

[jthorne]

Please don't fool yourself. You are not seeing him platonically as long as there are still romantic feelings on either side. So you are not seeing him platonically, you're just seeing him emotionally right now. Since he's pulled back, he will either eventually end the affair, or wait awhile and go back to the physical affair once his guilt subsides. EA's after PA's are usually not sustainable. They either end or go back to being PA's.

 

Unless he decides to tell his wife and/or get a divorce, no matter how strong the feelings are, you are still in a relationship with someone committed to someone else. You simply have to decide if that is enough for you long term. If being the other woman is what you can accept, then be that and expect nothing more.

 

Why are you encouraging him NOT to tell his wife? If you were his wife, wouldn't you want to know he's in love with someone else? Wouldn't you want the option to stay or leave? Are you afraid if he tells her, the A will end?

Edited April 18, 2010 by jthorne

[quackquackhen]

oh sweetie...i feel your pain and confusion...there is no easy answer to this...jthorne is right about the platonic thing...it can not work when you have such strong emotions for him...it will only end up becoming physical again...

 

but i am far from in a position to give advice...i am struggling with my own affair at the moment and it is just so painful...i just wanted to let you know that i understand your pain...xxx

[Heather1]

As much as I complain about xOM jerking me around, etc, it was all out of his guilt. I gave him the benefit of the doubt & then he was getting physically I'll on top of everything else. I couldn't do that to him, so I ended it. After reading your post, I remember the real reason I had to severe ties. What do you want to come out of this? He's connected to his W & feels guilty. You have to be the strong one who wants what's best for him. We couldn't do platonic either.....ha, ha, ha. My body still craves him, I don't think so!

It sucks, and it's really hard & I still wish I could see him, but we hit a wall & it wasn't good for him.

Try to think big picture.....relationships are supposed to bring out the best. Thanks for posting this. I've been wallowing in self pity & forgot about xOM's pain.

[lovingagain]

Thanks for the response, I guess it will go physical again at some point, though not in a cafe haha. But he would handle it better if we just met platonically I think. I will try it anyhow.

His pain is really bad, I should let him go if I were not so selfishly loving him so much and needing him so badly. I think of nothing else. It is an all consuming kind of love.

JT I don't want him to tell his W because quite honestly I think he would not be able to handle it right now. Bad enough when he sees me crying. Maybe he would end it again for a while anyhow. It is all so painful. Can't think of causing any more pain right now for anyone.

[Got it]

loving - He is a big boy. He needs to put on his big boy panties and deal with his very adult issues. You can not be his knight in shining armor. He needs to fix the problems in his life without you as a crutch.

 

I absolutely understand you pain. Please know, you make staying that much easier by remaining there. I walked from my MM when I realized that. He needed to decide what was best in his life but having me as his cake was no longer going to be an option.

 

As cliched as it is, I firmly believe (and said this to my MM) if I love you I have to let you go. Just like any parent knows about their child, you have to let them fall down every now and then to be able to get back up and move forward.

 

He has to deal with his wife, his life, and his unhappiness. You can suggest therapy, journaling, etc but he has to own it.

[jj33]

Its torture. You are simply giving him the emotional sustenance and getting nothing back. It keeps you stuck and it keeps you longing for the kind of relationship he lacks the b*lls to give you. (no offense to him I lived it myself for almost 2 years).

 

Dont do it. Go through the pain. If he really is that unhappy eventually he will leave. If he really feels he cant then you will be martyring your life to his responsibilities. You arent a saint, you arent his mother, his sister or his wife. You are a lovely woman he fell in love with. He may lack the b*lls to leave, but he should at least have enough of them to let you move on with your life.

 

Yes it will hurt. Yes you will miss him but life does go on and it cant be any worse than being in the drama of spending time with someone who you know will never give you the future you want.

 

If he finds the b*lls to change, then he will. You make it easier for him to stay because you make his life bearable. Dont do that to yourself. You arent helping your case so to speak.

[bentnotbroken]

Anybody else wonder why women fall for the biggest punky, whimppy MM there are. They are all controlled by their w's and their families. They only "exist" for the children. They are soooooo confused all they can do is cry and beg the OW to stay with them until they are "strong" enough to leave.....boooooo hooooo. Why in the world would someone want a wuss like that with no backbone? Please explain to me what the attraction is.

 

Just reading posts today makes me think there is only one man eveyone is dealing with. I am confused.

[BB07]

Loving again said: I have been seeing MM for two years. We have ended three times. He has suffered mentally and physically. He has cried and expressed total confusion about where to go from here. He has talked about just running away. His W is very demanding and controlling and his extended family are too and he feels a strong commitment to them and has enormous responsibilities which way heavily on him with them.

 

I couldn't help but notice that the above is ALL about him and how he feels...why is that? How do you feel about the above?

He has recently admitted that he married far too young, that he just exists for his children that he does not have a relationship at all with his W. (Please do not say this is a lie as I did not ask him, he took 2 years to tell me this and he does not gain anything by saying it).

 

Oh come on....he doesn't gain anything by saying that and it took him 2 years.....what does that prove and are you really buying that?

I have never put pressure on him to leave but the guilt is killing him. He has wanted to tell W but I stopped him as he did not know what he was doing it for and had not thought it through.

 

Why haven't you put pressure on him to leave, especially since you say the guilt is killing him? Why did you stop him? Aren't you sure you want him to leave? I don't get it.

 

I love him like I have never loved anyone and I know he feels the same but its tearing him apart. We have had several breaks with very emotional reunions. The thought of NC is not an option as we have tried this. Not seeing him is not an option for me either. I know I should just walk away but it is impossible. I have no will to do this. The relationship is very passionate and crazy with lots of deep emotional moments. We both feel like we have never felt before. I am not going to ask him to leave. He has talked about being on his own to think it through but ends up just blindly carrying on until he has a mental crash.

 

Again, most of what you said is all about him and how he feels and if he is heading toward a mental crash, why aren't you encouraging him to do SOMETHING?

 

Recently he has said that we should see each other from now on and just talk, like friends, nothing physical at all. Meet in public places. He won't even touch my hand. This is not a long term option for me as I crave his love. And it is not that he does not find me physically attractive anymore I know that for definite. He just does not see this as an affair if we are doing this and would handle it better. But it is still isn't it?

 

Whether it's an EA or a PA, it's still an affair and you can't go back and undo it either. If the guilt is tormenting him that much, he really needs to change the situation he is living in.....right?

My question is, can it work, what will it solve just seeing him platonically for a while? Has anyone done this? He said he has resolved to never being happy in his M with me or without me but can't escape it.

 

Why go on with this torment for him and you? This isn't any way for someone to live their life and the children are probably being hurt more by him staying than if he left, not to mention his wife doesn't have a clue as to what she is dealing with.

[jj33]

Hilarious Bent! But seriusly Loving read your post. Its an obsession and its hurting you both and he really does need to grow a pair. Or if he cant well if you are the knight in shining armor you will end up with the same H that his current W has.... and you may end up in the same place.

 

He needs to figure this out and act on his own behalf. Otherwise neiher of you have accomplished anything

[pureinheart]

I have been seeing MM for two years. We have ended three times. He has suffered mentally and physically. He has cried and expressed total confusion about where to go from here. He has talked about just running away. His W is very demanding and controlling and his extended family are too and he feels a strong commitment to them and has enormous responsibilities which way heavily on him with them.

He has recently admitted that he married far too young, that he just exists for his children that he does not have a relationship at all with his W. (Please do not say this is a lie as I did not ask him, he took 2 years to tell me this and he does not gain anything by saying it).

I have never put pressure on him to leave but the guilt is killing him. He has wanted to tell W but I stopped him as he did not know what he was doing it for and had not thought it through.

I love him like I have never loved anyone and I know he feels the same but its tearing him apart. We have had several breaks with very emotional reunions. The thought of NC is not an option as we have tried this. Not seeing him is not an option for me either. I know I should just walk away but it is impossible. I have no will to do this. The relationship is very passionate and crazy with lots of deep emotional moments. We both feel like we have never felt before. I am not going to ask him to leave. He has talked about being on his own to think it through but ends up just blindly carrying on until he has a mental crash.

 

Recently he has said that we should see each other from now on and just talk, like friends, nothing physical at all. Meet in public places. He won't even touch my hand. This is not a long term option for me as I crave his love. And it is not that he does not find me physically attractive anymore I know that for definite. He just does not see this as an affair if we are doing this and would handle it better. But it is still isn't it?

My question is, can it work, what will it solve just seeing him platonically for a while? Has anyone done this? He said he has resolved to never being happy in his M with me or without me but can't escape it.

 

My entire R with MM (now exDM) was platonic, the only problem is if you have crossed that line, then seeing each other will only be temptation.

 

I went NC (no contact) when I could no longer handle the dynamics of even an EA (emotional affair), his confusion, etc. This gave him the opportunity to "see" everything and straighten things out in his mind.

 

NC is not easy, it is like a withdrawl, although in time it got better.

 

I know you care about him, although no one person should have this much power over you...life hands us things that are not cool (to us anyway). So many people I've seen have basically died either physically or mentally from a broken heart if they loose the person they love through whatever means. My thoughts and prayers are with you ....smile

[Fight4Me]

Even as a BW, I do have sympathy for your pain. It's heartbreaking to see another woman torment herself in an unhealthy relationship. Given what you've described I don't see this ending well for anyone.

 

You've acknowledged the mental and physical tole this is taking on him. If you loved him, and I mean really love him as in wanting the very best for him, then you would have supported him telling his wife. I know you don't give a rat's ass about her, but even if she's psychotic and controlling, she still deserves a chance to plan for her own future. Right now, you are making the choice for her, and maybe, just maybe, coming clean to her will set them both free. His own guilt and continued secrecy will destroy him to the point where even you will no longer recognize him.

 

At the very least, encourage him to seek individual counseling so he can get good unbiased advice. If you are meant to be together, he'll be able to sort it out and plan accordingly. He'll be given the tools to do the right thing by everyone, and yes, that is possible.

 

I sincerely wish you the best.

[fooled once]

Thanks for the response, I guess it will go physical again at some point, though not in a cafe haha. But he would handle it better if we just met platonically I think. I will try it anyhow.

His pain is really bad, I should let him go if I were not so selfishly loving him so much and needing him so badly. I think of nothing else. It is an all consuming kind of love.

JT I don't want him to tell his W because quite honestly I think he would not be able to handle it right now. Bad enough when he sees me crying. Maybe he would end it again for a while anyhow. It is all so painful. Can't think of causing any more pain right now for anyone.

 

IMHO - that isn't love. That is unhealthy emotional neediness. I love my husband, but I don't go around all day consumed by it and unable to function if I don't talk to him 100 times a day.

 

If you really loved him like you say you do, you would either

 

Encourage him to mend his marriage and leave him alone so he could do that

 

Leave him because he isn't emotionally healthy nor is he able to reconcile with the guilt of what he is doing to his wife (which at least shows he has a conscious).

 

If you loved him like you say, you would want him healthy and happy. Being with you is not since he is having so many issues.

 

If you two are meant to be, set him free so he can heal and if he comes to you - DIVORCED - then you can resume a relationship.

[fooled once]

Anybody else wonder why women fall for the biggest punky, whimppy MM there are. They are all controlled by their w's and their families. They only "exist" for the children. They are soooooo confused all they can do is cry and beg the OW to stay with them until they are "strong" enough to leave.....boooooo hooooo. Why in the world would someone want a wuss like that with no backbone? Please explain to me what the attraction is.

 

Just reading posts today makes me think there is only one man eveyone is dealing with. I am confused.

 

OMG Bent! I was just thinking the exact same thing when I read another post here about how the MM was crying and all. I keep thinking "wimp".

 

I have never seen such unmanly men! They don't OWN what they are doing, it is always someone else's fault and they just can't make up their minds. Not attractive qualities to me in a man!

[lovingagain]

OMG Bent! I was just thinking the exact same thing when I read another post here about how the MM was crying and all. I keep thinking "wimp".

 

I have never seen such unmanly men! They don't OWN what they are doing, it is always someone else's fault and they just can't make up their minds. Not attractive qualities to me in a man!

 

Yes, not attractive qualities, but this is the difference between a serial cheater and first time and probably last time affair - a serial cheater is hardened and is able to handle the double life, with little care for anyone, someone who has never done it before or really never intended it to happen, cannot deal with it emotionally and is consumed with guilt. A man who is able to show his emotions to me IS a real man.

 

And who said anything was someone else's fault?

[lovingagain]

....................

I know you care about him, although no one person should have this much power over you...life hands us things that are not cool (to us anyway). So many people I've seen have basically died either physically or mentally from a broken heart if they loose the person they love through whatever means. My thoughts and prayers are with you ....smile

 

Thanks Pure that really is true. I know when I cannot talk to him or see him, it is like he does not exist. Recently he had a medical emergency and when I could not see him at the hospital, i was so ill and could not function at all. That is when it hits home about how you feel. Your post made me cry. Not that I ever stop.

[lovingagain]

BB07, I wish you could talk to him, these are all the things I have said to him. Thanks.

[Fallen Angel]

Please don't fool yourself. You are not seeing him platonically as long as there are still romantic feelings on either side. So you are not seeing him platonically, you're just seeing him emotionally right now. Since he's pulled back, he will either eventually end the affair, or wait awhile and go back to the physical affair once his guilt subsides. EA's after PA's are usually not sustainable. They either end or go back to being PA's.

 

I agree, I tried this with My Sweetheart several times. And it has always eventually come back around to being physical as well. We make great friends, but we make much better friends and lovers. We spent a rather long period of "platonic" behaviour. Not physically making love, but we made emotional love regularly. An emotional affair is still an affair. You can't go back; you must either move ahead, or end it altogether.

[bentnotbroken]

Yes, not attractive qualities, but this is the difference between a serial cheater and first time and probably last time affair - a serial cheater is hardened and is able to handle the double life, with little care for anyone, someone who has never done it before or really never intended it to happen, cannot deal with it emotionally and is consumed with guilt. A man who is able to show his emotions to me IS a real man.

 

And who said anything was someone else's fault?

 

 

There is your clue "probably". You will assume anything to make your view fit what you want. It doesn't make it so. Crying isn't a sign of being a REAL man or woman for that matter. Children cry, hell according to some scientist elephants cry at the birth of one of their herd. Does that make them REAL men? A real man would own his choices and make them to end a situation that is unhealthy. He isn't doing anything but pissing in the wind.

[lovingagain]

Even as a BW, I do have sympathy for your pain. It's heartbreaking to see another woman torment herself in an unhealthy relationship. Given what you've described I don't see this ending well for anyone.

 

You've acknowledged the mental and physical tole this is taking on him. If you loved him, and I mean really love him as in wanting the very best for him, then you would have supported him telling his wife. I know you don't give a rat's ass about her, but even if she's psychotic and controlling, she still deserves a chance to plan for her own future. Right now, you are making the choice for her, and maybe, just maybe, coming clean to her will set them both free. His own guilt and continued secrecy will destroy him to the point where even you will no longer recognize him.

 

At the very least, encourage him to seek individual counseling so he can get good unbiased advice. If you are meant to be together, he'll be able to sort it out and plan accordingly. He'll be given the tools to do the right thing by everyone, and yes, that is possible.

 

I sincerely wish you the best.

Thank you FFM. I don't want to cause any more pain if this is going to end, then we should keep the pain between us.

I have read on here about the pain that BS suffer sometimes years later - if we were definitely going to be together then yes, but for now it looks like it may end.

 

It is just that I know he would not be able to cope right now telling her whatever the outcome.

AND it is not true that OW do not care about the effect on others including BS. It is just that they care more about their MM.

I have encouraged him to seek counselling but it is difficult. he does not face his feelings. It is only recently that he has told ME stuff. (2 years down the line).

[Fight4Me]

Thank you FFM. I don't want to cause any more pain if this is going to end, then we should keep the pain between us.

I have read on here about the pain that BS suffer sometimes years later - if we were definitely going to be together then yes, but for now it looks like it may end.

 

It is just that I know he would not be able to cope right now telling her whatever the outcome.

 

My big concern is that his wife has already picked up on something. The odds are great that there will be a DDay one way or another, and I just think it would be in everyone's best interest for him to come clean now before that happens. Also, a case can be made that nervous, guilty men make big mistakes. I know it may not seem like it, but I really am thinking of you in regards to this outcome. If he tells, it just goes over way better when confessed than if discovered, and you could end up with more than just a broken heart.

 

AND it is not true that OW do not care about the effect on others including BS. It is just that they care more about their MM.

I have encouraged him to seek counselling but it is difficult. he does not face his feelings. It is only recently that he has told ME stuff. (2 years down the line).

Well, I guess I'm just thinking (right or wrong) that the BW is out of sight, out of mind. She is not someone you have any obligation to, etc. etc. See, my fWH's OW and I actually ended up corresponding for a time, and she realized I wasn't the wicked wife from the west as he had made me out to be. And I came away with respect for her because when he decided it was time to tell me, and even though she didn't want him to, she supported him in doing so. It didn't work out well for her, and I have compassion because I figure we at least have one thing in common... we both love the same man. Under different circumstances, she and I could have been friends.

 

All I'm saying is that you might think you know what he can and cannot handle right now, but it still seems obvious that he's not handling the situation as it is, either. He'll have a better chance of getting the right counseling if he confesses, and he very well could end up with you in a healthy way.

 

Just think about it if he brings it up again. And do take care of yourself.

[bentnotbroken]

Thank you FFM. I don't want to cause any more pain if this is going to end, then we should keep the pain between us.

I have read on here about the pain that BS suffer sometimes years later - if we were definitely going to be together then yes, but for now it looks like it may end.

 

It is just that I know he would not be able to cope right now telling her whatever the outcome.

AND it is not true that OW do not care about the effect on others including BS. It is just that they care more about their MM.

I have encouraged him to seek counselling but it is difficult. he does not face his feelings. It is only recently that he has told ME stuff. (2 years down the line).

 

Again with the weak crap about not being able to cope. He can cope, he just chooses not to . He is protecting his own assest and no amount of verbal diarrhea he spews will change it is all about HIM. Even you admit it's about him in the "they just care more about the MM". His wife deserves the same opportunity to find happiness that he does. If all he wants is to be happy then give her the option of finding a man to do that for her. He want do that though and we all know it. Why? because he doesn't want another man inside his wife of the possibility he will be replaced. That's selfishness.

[MichelleZB]

You keep saying that you are not going to ask him to leave. Does that mean that it doesn't matter to you if he stays married? I know this will be a highly unpopular opinion, but if so, why not just continue the affair without the angst? You'll see each other, you can have sex and intimacy, you can be independent, and he won't have to extricate himself from his in-laws. His wife will continue to turn a blind eye, and everyone wins.

 

I suspect, however, that the picture I just painted is not what you want. Am I wrong?

[fooled once]

Again with the weak crap about not being able to cope. He can cope, he just chooses not to . He is protecting his own assest and no amount of verbal diarrhea he spews will change it is all about HIM. Even you admit it's about him in the "they just care more about the MM". His wife deserves the same opportunity to find happiness that he does. If all he wants is to be happy then give her the option of finding a man to do that for her. He want do that though and we all know it. Why? because he doesn't want another man inside his wife of the possibility he will be replaced. That's selfishness.

 

I completely agree with Bent. She is incredibly wise and has the best advice. She says what she means and means what she says and doesn't need to dress it up with a bow.

 

Facts are facts. Just because he cries doesn't make what he is doing any less disgusting. He is playing you and his wife.

[lovingagain]

Quote FFM My big concern is that his wife has already picked up on something. The odds are great that there will be a DDay one way or another, and I just think it would be in everyone's best interest for him to come clean now before that happens. Also, a case can be made that nervous, guilty men make big mistakes. I know it may not seem like it, but I really am thinking of you in regards to this outcome. If he tells, it just goes over way better when confessed than if discovered, and you could end up with more than just a broken heart. Quote FFM

 

How so?? I am really interested in how it would be better to tell than be discovered. Both have the same amount of pain. I don't see how telling is better to be honest, but enlighten me.

 

Most BSs on this forum keep harping on about telling. I don't see it. So is he really going to tell his W that he does not love her. I doubt it. Is he likely to tell her that he loves me - NO. He won't want to cause that pain. So how would it be better for me, not that I am interested in how to make it better for me by the way.

 

Whilst writing FFM please tell me what you picked up on. I know he is moody and withdrawn at home. Did you discover your Hs affair? I don't mind if this goes slightly off topic as it is my thread.