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Spin-off: "The unwritten OW Rule"


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moaningmyrtle

[i didn't want to t/j another thread which was for offering support.]

 

After months of reading this and the Infidelity Forum it's become apparent to me that the unwritten rule for OW is:

 

"Never tell the wife while the affair is ongoing."

 

My impression is that this would be seen as the ultimate betrayal of the MM as well most likely as the end of the affair. This seems to be in spite of the opinion held by some OW, that the affair is the MM's primary relationship and/or that he will be leaving the marriage and be free to be with the OW at some indeterminate time in the future.

 

The "never tell the wife" rule, also seems to extend beyond the end of the A in some/most(?) cases. OW sometimes come onto this forum wondering whether to "tell" - mostly this is when the A has become too difficult for them (as far as I can tell), or is about to end. Most ongoing OW urge them not to tell with various justifications given. Most (but not all) BW urge exposure.

 

I really just raised this for discussion - I don't have a question as such. I do wonder how the 2 opposing (on this forum) groups of women can have these 2 distinct points of view (tell or not). Many of us say we are not so different after all, but to me this does seem to represent a significant difference.

 

PS I do realise I'm generalising and there will be some BW who say "never tell", although I doubt there are many OW in ongoing affairs who have told the wife - it more seems to be something that happens with a planned exit strategy rather than an OW just telling the BW - but I could be wrong.

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Well being that I am the one who originated the post in question:

IMO, I am a HUGE supporter of outing the A to the BS especially if any following applies:

1.if there is another unsuspecting ow

2. mm lied about m status(divorced, seperated, married)

3. std's

4. pregnancy

5. to END the A permanently

but more often than not the reason ow out mm is because they feel duped. they feel used and discovered they were lied to. In my case during the years i was in the A, i ended the A several times and each time mm became increasingly persistent. he threatned physical violence if i ever left him or if i were ever to get involved with another om(what a jackass). yes i was angry and i decided to out mm but the primary reason was to END the A permanently.

 

I don't understand who would oppose outing the A to the BS. In many instances the BS is unsuspecting and the fate of the m has been taken out of her/his hands and they at least deserve that after being betrayed. I would want to know if my H checked out of the M rather than resuming a life of lies with him after he checks back in and after his sleazy A ended and i the unsuspecting w caters to him and his needs while he's possibly pining away for ow!

 

the best way to test the validity of a mm words such as his m is over is to say "ok, well i'll have a chat with your w just to verify" and i guarantee he will run for the hills because IF his m is over and he wants to be with you it shouldn't be a secret.

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I was an OW and perhaps predictably fall in the 'Don't Tell' group for all the many reasons that have been presented in various threads over the years. Virtually all BSs urge exposure because the question is always posed with the real or hypothetical knowledge that the other spouse is/was being unfaithful, and choosing ignorance is predictably something that few humans would do when asked directly no matter what the situation. Because 'BS' is post affair by definition there's little frame of reference for the potentially positive aspects of not knowing if the affair was a never-to-be-repeated blip on an otherwise successful marriage. The knowlege comes with a price - hurt, altered past, present and future, cynicism, fear, impaired ability to trust etc. It's not always going to be worth it when we all only have one life.

 

In short, I don't think there is one answer more righteous than the next. Everybody answers it the same way: in their own perceived best interest.

Edited by 81West
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Myrtle I dont think its surprising. If someone enters into an affair with someone they know is married (or later find out is married) in a majority of cases, a vast majority, the wife wont know.

 

It wouldnt make sense for someone who is embarking on that course of conduct to tell the BS. A clandestine affair is by its very nature clandestine.

 

If on the other hand you are talking about when D day happens, would the OW participate in gaslighting the BS if asked about what was happening, rather than telling the BS the truth, that is another story altogether.

 

I really cant opine on this as it was not my situation. The wife knew, knew it was me and has met me on several occassions since it ended.

 

However (I always have an opinion..) i think its very disingenous to tell the W if you are not asked. How does that work its ok to decieve the spouse when the relatoinship is working for you but when things dont go your way you are suddenly the honest forthright valiant truth teller. Dont think so. I also think if I were the BSI would rather hear it from anyone but the OW but that is just me.

Edited by jj33
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Ella whispers

I'm in the process of cutting my MM loose.

I think he might worry that I will tell his W or anyone else when he realizes that I'm done. (NC for 2 days now)

I won't tell her because all it will do is cause her pain. He's hurting her enough by cheating so there is no need for me to throw gas on that fire.

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crazycatlady

Alright, I'm one of the BSes who says sometimes disclosure is not always the best policy. I'm pondering that advice. If he had managed to conduct the affair without my knowing or ever finding out, then probably a good idea not to tell. But he couldn't, the gut told me from the start when it happened. Always trust the gut.

 

Anyway this isn't about the MM its about the OW.

 

I am having trouble with coming up with a reason for the OP to tell the BS about the A that is for unselfish reasons. There are some reason to tell, especially if the MS (married spouse) isn't going to tell

 

1 - pregnancy

2 - stds

3 - didn't know MS was actually married

4 - and maybe if the OP knows the BS is going crazy due to gaslighting.

 

Otherwise I think the reason for telling is to force an outcome, which man I'm sorry if you go into the affair knowing the deal, forcing the outcome like that is low IMO, to hurt the MS or the BS for whatever reason. Or for some other selfish reason.

 

CCL

Edited by crazycatlady
I hit enter too soon.
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fooled once
[i didn't want to t/j another thread which was for offering support.]

 

After months of reading this and the Infidelity Forum it's become apparent to me that the unwritten rule for OW is:

 

"Never tell the wife while the affair is ongoing."

 

My impression is that this would be seen as the ultimate betrayal of the MM as well most likely as the end of the affair. This seems to be in spite of the opinion held by some OW, that the affair is the MM's primary relationship and/or that he will be leaving the marriage and be free to be with the OW at some indeterminate time in the future.

 

The "never tell the wife" rule, also seems to extend beyond the end of the A in some/most(?) cases. OW sometimes come onto this forum wondering whether to "tell" - mostly this is when the A has become too difficult for them (as far as I can tell), or is about to end. Most ongoing OW urge them not to tell with various justifications given. Most (but not all) BW urge exposure.

 

I really just raised this for discussion - I don't have a question as such. I do wonder how the 2 opposing (on this forum) groups of women can have these 2 distinct points of view (tell or not). Many of us say we are not so different after all, but to me this does seem to represent a significant difference.

 

PS I do realise I'm generalising and there will be some BW who say "never tell", although I doubt there are many OW in ongoing affairs who have told the wife - it more seems to be something that happens with a planned exit strategy rather than an OW just telling the BW - but I could be wrong.

 

In the affair I was in, the Wife called me at about the 1.5 year mark -- and we had a 30 minute convo. It was after talking to her that I started waking up and realizing what a liar this guy was.

 

The wife knew that he had dated me when they were separated for a year - she found a picture of me in his wallet and demanded that he end it with me. He called me, with her on the other line, and 'ended it'. 2 days later, he called me and told me she was on the other extension (and I heard her anyway) and that she 'made him' and he was glad I went along with it. :rolleyes: I ripped into him about his immaturity, his lying and he either wanted to work on his marriage or be with me -- he couldn't have it both ways.

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fooled once

However (I always have an opinion..) i think its very disingenous to tell the W if you are not asked. How does that work its ok to decieve the spouse when the relatoinship is working for you but when things dont go your way you are suddenly the honest forthright valiant truth teller. Dont think so. .

 

I totally agree with JJ. That is what cracks me up sometimes...how all of a sudden the jilted OW NOW wants the BS to know, cause you know, she has a 'right' to know what her H is up to LOL

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Somebody mentioned gaslighting...I wanted to qualify my previous remarks and add that yes, if the OW is directly approached by the BS with direct questions the OW should answer truthfully without divulging more than is necessary to be fundamentally honest.

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I don't think the OW should tell the BW. As a former BW, I wouldn't believe the word of the OW to be anything more than sour grapes.

 

I am for them telling when pregnant, or when they find out they have transmitted an STD from the MM. I would like it if they told before the MM stole funds from the M in a D, especially if they know that the MM is hiding assets. But that's a pipedream. Not everyone thinks the BW is entitled to what the MM is hiding. Especially an OW that thinks she's going to get her hands on it.

 

The OW telling after she is dumped or otherwise not enjoying the A anymore, just backfires on them mostly. Sure, this board is full of BWs that think anyone telling them is good, but I am of the mind that the OW telling usually strengthens the MM's hand in denying it all or making the OW out to be a stalker.

 

Plus, I'm the type to just ask and keep asking (whoever I think may have the info I want/need) until satisfied. Chances are, I'd find out who the OW was before she ever thought to tell me, and I'd be the one initiating contact.

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Fallen Angel

I am an OW and for me it all depends on the situation as to what I advise. Sometimes I think the OW should tell the wife, other times i do not. I don't have a strict policy either way. I read each persons situation and plead my case accordingly. *shrug*

 

I often advise against telling the BW, if the reason is simply spite. If the OW comes to some lightbulb moment and feels remorse about what they have been doing and plan to change their course of action and want to "clear the air" and give the wife the facts because they find that the MM has fed them a line of bullsh*t about the wife.. well, then most likely I would say they should tell.

 

I haven't kept track of my voting record. I would hazzard a guess that I am split roughly fifty-fifty. I personally don't think that someone telling out of spite to the MM, or telling in order to twist the knife in the BW has any right to tell. But if the intentions are to stop gaslighting that they were a part of; ie the wife called and asked and the OW originally lied; then I think the OW should tell.

 

I have always told my sweetheart that if his wife calls to ask me questions I will first refer her back to him, so that he can answer any thing she wants to know, if she calls a second time wanting confirmation or denial of the things he says, I will be totally honest with her. My reason for telling her to speak with him will be to give him the opportunity to tell her himself, as I think that is his place. But I have always maintained that when/if asked, I will not lie to make things easier for him or myself.

 

In my case, we have had our D-day, and she has had her proof that the relationship between him and me is still ongoing. The likelyhood of her calling with questions at this point seem remote, but I have no reason to lie to this woman, as she has done me no wrong.

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I have always maintained that I’d never out my MM to his W unless he did something outside of the A to intentionally cause great damage in my life. I think it is one of the deals that you make when entering an A, like part of the vows of an A. I think my MM trusts me a lot. I could expose many things that I think would obliterate his M. Even if he treated me badly in the A, I don’t see myself doing that to him. It really isn’t my place to tell. She should get whatever info she needs from him and if he can’t be honest about it then that’s another issue they have to work out in their M. Honestly, details would only hurt her more and I’ve already contributed to her hurt enough. I really don’t want or think the weight of that should be on my shoulders.

 

I did go through a period where I felt beyond absolutely horrible that I was involved in the A. I felt so guilty. I’d constantly think about her and her suspicions, his lies, how she must feel and think. I would literally cry at night in my pillow whispering “I am so sorry (her name here)”. At that time, I really wanted to tell his W the truth about anything she wanted to know. If she was asking me face-to-face during that period I think I would have. I felt that I owed it to her.

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Fallen Angel
I have always maintained that I’d never out my MM to his W unless he did something outside of the A to intentionally cause great damage in my life. I think it is one of the deals that you make when entering an A, like part of the vows of an A. I think my MM trusts me a lot. I could expose many things that I think would obliterate his M. Even if he treated me badly in the A, I don’t see myself doing that to him. It really isn’t my place to tell. She should get whatever info she needs from him and if he can’t be honest about it then that’s another issue they have to work out in their M. Honestly, details would only hurt her more and I’ve already contributed to her hurt enough. I really don’t want or think the weight of that should be on my shoulders.

 

I did go through a period where I felt beyond absolutely horrible that I was involved in the A. I felt so guilty. I’d constantly think about her and her suspicions, his lies, how she must feel and think. I would literally cry at night in my pillow whispering “I am so sorry (her name here)”. At that time, I really wanted to tell his W the truth about anything she wanted to know. If she was asking me face-to-face during that period I think I would have. I felt that I owed it to her.

 

If you felt you "owed it to her" then, why do you not feel that you owe it to her now?

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If you felt you "owed it to her" then, why do you not feel that you owe it to her now?

 

Honest answer: 1) If I start feeling guilty or empathy for her it causes problems with how I feel about MM so I can’t let that stuff creep in and 2) I find myself envious at times of her M and kinda bitterly think “screw you, you have him all of the time. Why I should I feel bad you?”

 

Guilty, empathy, and envy…I never thought in a million years I would have those emotions towards her.

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Fallen Angel
Honest answer: 1) If I start feeling guilty or empathy for her it causes problems with how I feel about MM so I can’t let that stuff creep in and 2) I find myself envious at times of her M and kinda bitterly think “screw you, you have him all of the time. Why I should I feel bad you?”

 

Guilty, empathy, and envy…I never thought in a million years I would have those emotions towards her.

 

Fair enough, thanks for your honest response. (hope you are well these days.. hugs)

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Honest answer: 1) If I start feeling guilty or empathy for her it causes problems with how I feel about MM so I can’t let that stuff creep in and 2) I find myself envious at times of her M and kinda bitterly think “screw you, you have him all of the time. Why I should I feel bad you?”

 

Guilty, empathy, and envy…I never thought in a million years I would have those emotions towards her.

 

This is just wrong....

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Fallen Angel
This is just wrong....

 

While you may not agree with the sentiment, at least she is answering honestly. I kind of understand those conflicted emotions myself. Perhaps if you were still in your affair, you would be better able to remember those conflicted feelings... you feel guilty because you know what you are doing is hurtful to someone else, yet you love the person you are in the affair with, so you are willing to sacrifice some (most of the time unknown) person's feelings so that you can continue to have your needs and desires met with your lover.

 

I think every "other" feels that way at least sometimes. Except perhaps someone who never has a remorseful thought about the affair they are in and the pain it causes the BS.

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White Flower
In the affair I was in, the Wife called me at about the 1.5 year mark -- and we had a 30 minute convo. It was after talking to her that I started waking up and realizing what a liar this guy was.

 

The wife knew that he had dated me when they were separated for a year - she found a picture of me in his wallet and demanded that he end it with me. He called me, with her on the other line, and 'ended it'. 2 days later, he called me and told me she was on the other extension (and I heard her anyway) and that she 'made him' and he was glad I went along with it. :rolleyes: I ripped into him about his immaturity, his lying and he either wanted to work on his marriage or be with me -- he couldn't have it both ways.

Your D-day was almost exactly the same as mine except instead of a picture of me in his wallet it was my cell phone number on their bill. Heard her on the other line in the voicemail, two phones hanging up.

 

Had she asked me to call her back I would have but she left no voicemails. I might have spilled my guts but I've thought a lot about it now.

 

If I tell her what I know, I look like the scorned unchosen one who wants to spite MM. If I don't tell, I allow her to go on living with a lie but OTOH I allow her to go on with life as she pretty much always knew it anyway. If they stay M, why upset her reality? If they D, why alter her idea of the 'good' years they had?

 

When I found out that he'd had many before me I went out and got tested for STDs. Tests being negative I decided not to tell her anything. Had they been postitive, I would have felt it a duty to call her and anyone else I knew about in his past or recent past. Health can be a big issue and a deciding factor in telling.

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White Flower
If you felt you "owed it to her" then, why do you not feel that you owe it to her now?

Just as in any R or in life for that matter we change and learn and grow. Just as dynamics in a R can change we are allowed to negotiate new terms for our R and sometimes in the process new ideals can emerge.

 

I used to be one for telling. Now I'm not so sure. I would never go to her, I know that but if she came to me I couldn't lie yet I'm not sure how much she should know about me.

 

From reading other websites that focus on supporting BW I find that most wouldn't believe a word the OW said anyway. They tend to believe that if we are willing to have a R with a MM we must be evil kniving liars.

 

One particular story sticks out in my mind. The BW decided to contact the OW since deciding to reconcile the M. She braced herself for the hours she knew she was going to face the lying loser of a demoralized OW in order to get the truth. After returning home and posting her story she reassured her readers that she didn't buy a word the OW had to say.

 

I just couldn't get it past my head as to why she was so adamant to meet with her then.:o

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Is the unwritten OW/OM rule a don't tell rule, or a don't lie to rule? I ask because in my book they are quite different rules.

Don't tell BS while the A is taking place I can understand (may not agree with) as it could force a D Day and the end of the A and suggests that the OP is unsure as to whether she/he will be discarded. Telling after the fact and initiating the telling is, IMO, an act of revenge, a, I am going to blow your world up because mine has been. It can backfire, very often does as it makes the OW/OM a common 'enemy' and gives the WS and BS something to rail against, it can also serve to highlight the difference between the BS and OW/OM Unfair maybe, but part of the reconciliation in many situations. Double standards abound at this time!!

 

Don't lie if asked suggests that either a D Day or the BS finding out has happened and the OW/OM has been discarded and may embelish the A or simply explain it from their point of view, which if the OW/OM has been gaslighted as well as the BS can be a different view of the A than the WS. Or, as in my conversation with the OW, was a truthful exchange when she realised that I wasn't heaping all the blame on her and that her version of my M was very different from mine. If the WS has left for the OP then the BS could see it as a I have won thing and not as a true attempt to give peace to a gaslighted BS - gaslighting is simply awful, truly makes you think you have gone mad.

 

Sorry for the rambling thoughts, but I was thinking when is a lie a lie? Is it when the A starts and deception is required from both OP and WS? Is it justified to enable the A to continue - and if it is then is it just wrapped up as something else to make the A seem honourable? Or does it just become a lie when it is out in the open and it is seen for what it is?

From my point of view as a BS, the OW telling before my H would've been seen as sour grapes and a revenge thing rather than her having any concern at all for mine and H's situation. Telling the truth after, I saw as something she didn't need to do, could've lied and broke my heart even more, but she didn't - and that is why I have respect for her as she was so hurt, yet chose to speak with me.

 

It is often said that the OP doesn't owe the BS anything, has no responsibility or place in the marriage. Why the sudden, I need to tell them, they need to know baffles me as the need to do anything came before the A started (simplistic I know). Anyway, good thread apologies for the ramble.

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one of billions

I would say the reason most wives who get unsolicited information about an affair is because the other woman has an agenda, either spite or revenge, in hopes of ending his marriage, or to cement the end of the affair, but not always. For example, a single woman meets a guy who presents himself as single. They clicked, date for 3-6 months, she finds out he is married and dumps him immediately. She feels compelled to tell the wife purely out of thought for the wife. Is that really far fetched to believe? Separately, doesn’t the other woman, even though it may not be out of consideration, in a way protect the wife by exposing an affair?

 

Sometimes it seems like the BS is on both sides of the fence. They’ll say things about not believing or scrutinizing what the other woman says or her motives. On the other hand, they’ll say I don’t care who tells me as long as I know. Is the other woman a liar until the BS wants information from her?

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pureinheart

Hi Moaning....

 

As a BW three times, BGF once, and an OW once, I did not want to talk to the ladies that my H's were seeing and I didnot want to talk to exDM's W.

 

As a BW and GF, I did not want to know gory details, I communicated with the H or BF only.

 

As an OW I acted in the same manor, communicated with exDM only when problems with his family arose.

 

Every situation is different, these were my choices based on my wishes. I think on both sides of this spectrum, there can be the element of obsession, when this is present there is torment, I see no point in fueling that.

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Huh. I thought the unwritten OW rule was "Never get attached."

If you never get attached, you have no reason to tell the W.

I musta got the wrong memo. :)

 

Me too.....

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Fallen Angel
I would say the reason most wives who get unsolicited information about an affair is because the other woman has an agenda, either spite or revenge, in hopes of ending his marriage, or to cement the end of the affair, but not always. For example, a single woman meets a guy who presents himself as single. They clicked, date for 3-6 months, she finds out he is married and dumps him immediately. She feels compelled to tell the wife purely out of thought for the wife. Is that really far fetched to believe? Separately, doesn’t the other woman, even though it may not be out of consideration, in a way protect the wife by exposing an affair?

 

Sometimes it seems like the BS is on both sides of the fence. They’ll say things about not believing or scrutinizing what the other woman says or her motives. On the other hand, they’ll say I don’t care who tells me as long as I know. Is the other woman a liar until the BS wants information from her?

 

Good question which can be followed with, is the other woman a liar simply because she does not say what they want to hear?

 

I am quite ceratin that if the OW were to tell the wife something along the lines of.. "He never said he loved me, said it was only sex, said he would never leave you because he loved you." then the BW would likely believe that, because that is what they want to hear. If OW says "He told me everyday how much he loves me. Our relationship was one built on emotional connection the sex was secondary. He stays because he feels obligated because of ________. (fill in the blank)" then the BW is much more likely to say/think that the OW is a liar.

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PhoenixRise

Or could it be that BW are just women who vary in thoughts, feelings, motivations, and reactions. They are not monolithic. Not all BW will think want or expect an OW to say it was all just sex. Not all BW will just write the OW off as a liar. And while not all BW will want to be made aware of the affair by the OW, some will want the truth regardless of who the messenger is.

 

Sure there are some BW who need/want to have the affair minimized in order to have their reality maintained. But there are others who once they realized they have been lied to seek and demand the whole truth and who refuse to be patronized.

 

On the other hand there are OW who also vary in their thoughts, feelings, reactions and motivations. Some would tell the truth about the affair relationship, some would not. Some would seek to hurt the BW with lies or exaggerations, some would not.

 

IMO a smart woman (BW or OW) would take the other person's truth as they tell it and then weigh it against objective facts that can be verified.

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