Infidelity begets infidelity.....

[Brokenlady]

The A part of my relationship with xDM went on for years, and I always had difficulty wrapping my mind around how he could carry on like that for so long, hurting both his xW and me (who he claimed to be madly in love with). I wondered if the hesitance he had at the beginning was all just an act. No, now I think it's more a product of how people become desensitized....one trifling act can "whittle down one's moral sensitivity, making it easier to perform a worse act." "Actions and attitudes feed each other, sometimes to the point of moral numbness. The more one harms another and adjusts one's attitudes, the easier harm-doing becomes." Typically people come to increasingly dislike the person they are harming to justify their behavior. And significantly, this is especially true when we agree to a "bad" deed voluntarily.

 

In retrospect, xDM alluded to the fact that I "deserved" the treatment I got from him. That since I was "getting" him, I should tolerate the hurtful elements of his "process". Obviously he also felt his xW deserved what she got, yet at many points he'd say he couldn't look at himself int he mirror.

 

Interestingly, much research has shown that people are less inclined to act contrary to their words (their expressed beliefs) when they're made self-aware (usually by having a mirror in front of them, or hearing a tape of their own voice). So I'm thinking I should have decorated his house with a ton of mirrors.....

 

Now of course he's telling me that he "appreciates how wrong it was to live deceitfully for the sake of trying to please [xW]". But the thing is he's already shown that he's perfectly able to lie to both of us, to justify his reasons for doing it, and regretting only that he got caught. (Because the behavior was constantly repeated, no matter how many times he got caught). I know I could never trust him again. It would be too easy for him to lie to me again, and again, and again. I guess these days I almost feel more like a BS than an fOW.

 

Still, it struck me that his stated goal was "pleasing" his xW. Way to blameshift. I fully believe he acted to please himself, alleviate his guilt, call it whatever you like. Yet, just in that one phrase, he tries to pit us against each other again. Basically - she's so crazy, I had to lie all the time. Ok whatever. So aggravating!

 

Anyway, does anyone else have any thoughts on becoming desensitized to cheating and/or the phenomenon of being self-aware largely preventing a mismatch between words and actions?

[2sunny]

to worry and wonder about HIM and all the why, why, why's of this PAST failed relationship will keep you in your past.

 

move forward - always asking yourself - HOW can i make sure my life NEVER looks like that again? HOW can i find happiness and what does that look like for ME... HOW can i make sure i get THAT life on a daily basis?

 

never ask why - always ask HOW to make it different - that will automatically move you forward...

[White Flower]

 

Anyway, does anyone else have any thoughts on becoming desensitized to cheating and/or the phenomenon of being self-aware largely preventing a mismatch between words and actions?

No, not at all. I could never be involved in an A again. I know who I am, I know what I want and it isn't an A. Even if MM decides after counseling he needs to stay put I will not pick up with the A again.

 

I really think your exMM is either a sociopath or a narcissist. A sociopath because he lies without quilt or fear of consequence and a narcissist because he thinks you're lucky to get him after waiting (and wanting) so long. I don't think the experience you had with exMM measures against what a lot of us went through IMHO. You really had a doozy there!

[jennie-jennie]

I don't think the experience you had with exMM measures against what a lot of us went through IMHO. You really had a doozy there!

 

I agree. I don't recognize that behaviour or that kind of thinking either.

[White Flower]

Anyway, does anyone else have any thoughts on becoming desensitized to cheating and/or the phenomenon of being self-aware largely preventing a mismatch between words and actions?

OTOH, I do believe a serial cheater will become desensitized to cheating. It is discovered to be easy the first time around and there starts the pattern.

[Brokenlady]

to worry and wonder about HIM and all the why, why, why's of this PAST failed relationship will keep you in your past.

 

move forward - always asking yourself - HOW can i make sure my life NEVER looks like that again? HOW can i find happiness and what does that look like for ME... HOW can i make sure i get THAT life on a daily basis?

 

never ask why - always ask HOW to make it different - that will automatically move you forward...

 

I know. I feel really stuck right now. I am still asking why he had to go and ruin everything. Still wondering if there was anything I could have done differently (other than the obvious). I guess I am just really afraid about how I've been damaged by all this. I had shaky trust in the world to begin with, now I don't think I'll be able to trust anyone ever again. I am afraid I'll end up alone and still bitter about this 3 years from now.

 

As you might imagine, this is not a good week/weekend for me. Hopefully things look a little better next week....

[White Flower]

I know. I feel really stuck right now. I am still asking why he had to go and ruin everything. Still wondering if there was anything I could have done differently (other than the obvious). I guess I am just really afraid about how I've been damaged by all this. I had shaky trust in the world to begin with, now I don't think I'll be able to trust anyone ever again. I am afraid I'll end up alone and still bitter about this 3 years from now.

 

As you might imagine, this is not a good week/weekend for me. Hopefully things look a little better next week....

((((Brokenlady))))

 

You WILL get through this week, I know you will.

 

They say we continuously invite the same type of man into our lives until we become aware and break the cycle. I'm wondering if there is something about THIS kind of man that draws you in. Yet, it appears with all the reading and learning you've done that you'll avoid someone like him next time around.

 

I really hope you find true happiness with a more stable character soon. You deserve it!

[Brokenlady]

I really think your exMM is either a sociopath or a narcissist. A sociopath because he lies without quilt or fear of consequence and a narcissist because he thinks you're lucky to get him after waiting (and wanting) so long. I don't think the experience you had with exMM measures against what a lot of us went through IMHO. You really had a doozy there!

 

It's hard to say what he felt - he said he was overwhelmed by guilt, but that could as easily be another lie. Whatever he felt, it didn't change his behavior. He does seem lacking in empathy in general, not just with me. It's extremely rare for him to show any emotion at all. I don't think narcissist or sociopath quite fits the bill though. He does have a history of panic disorder, and claims most of his behaviors were aimed at preventing a panic attack. (In this case, that he'd do something that would alleviate his guilt to avoid an attack, but those actions were always inviting to his xW and hurtful to me). He is also very much Avoidant. But honestly, I already probably spend way too much time trying to apply logic to him.

[jennie-jennie]

I know. I feel really stuck right now. I am still asking why he had to go and ruin everything. Still wondering if there was anything I could have done differently (other than the obvious). I guess I am just really afraid about how I've been damaged by all this. I had shaky trust in the world to begin with, now I don't think I'll be able to trust anyone ever again. I am afraid I'll end up alone and still bitter about this 3 years from now.

 

As you might imagine, this is not a good week/weekend for me. Hopefully things look a little better next week....

 

I think we have to allow ourselves the time we need to work through our experiences. This can not be forced. When you are ready to let go, you will.

 

((((Brokenlady))))

[fooled once]

The A part of my relationship with xDM went on for years, and I always had difficulty wrapping my mind around how he could carry on like that for so long, hurting both his xW and me (who he claimed to be madly in love with). I wondered if the hesitance he had at the beginning was all just an act. No, now I think it's more a product of how people become desensitized....one trifling act can "whittle down one's moral sensitivity, making it easier to perform a worse act." "Actions and attitudes feed each other, sometimes to the point of moral numbness. The more one harms another and adjusts one's attitudes, the easier harm-doing becomes." Typically people come to increasingly dislike the person they are harming to justify their behavior. And significantly, this is especially true when we agree to a "bad" deed voluntarily.

 

In retrospect, xDM alluded to the fact that I "deserved" the treatment I got from him. That since I was "getting" him, I should tolerate the hurtful elements of his "process". Obviously he also felt his xW deserved what she got, yet at many points he'd say he couldn't look at himself int he mirror.

 

Interestingly, much research has shown that people are less inclined to act contrary to their words (their expressed beliefs) when they're made self-aware (usually by having a mirror in front of them, or hearing a tape of their own voice). So I'm thinking I should have decorated his house with a ton of mirrors.....

 

Now of course he's telling me that he "appreciates how wrong it was to live deceitfully for the sake of trying to please [xW]". But the thing is he's already shown that he's perfectly able to lie to both of us, to justify his reasons for doing it, and regretting only that he got caught. (Because the behavior was constantly repeated, no matter how many times he got caught). I know I could never trust him again. It would be too easy for him to lie to me again, and again, and again. I guess these days I almost feel more like a BS than an fOW.

 

Still, it struck me that his stated goal was "pleasing" his xW. Way to blameshift. I fully believe he acted to please himself, alleviate his guilt, call it whatever you like. Yet, just in that one phrase, he tries to pit us against each other again. Basically - she's so crazy, I had to lie all the time. Ok whatever. So aggravating!

 

Anyway, does anyone else have any thoughts on becoming desensitized to cheating and/or the phenomenon of being self-aware largely preventing a mismatch between words and actions?

 

What an excellent post.

 

I think once a person starts down a slope, they continue to go down it and sometimes, they don't know how to stop. Or there is a bend in the slope and instead of going down it and stopping, they continue on their destructive path.

 

I always wonder who they are doing it for? Themselves most likely. Sure, like you said, they will try to pass it off as doing it "for so-and-so" but of course, that is baloney.

 

And someone who decides to go down that path and purposefully hurt and devastate others, what does that say about their soul and their character?

 

Excellent post BL!

[GreenEyedLady]

Interestingly, much research has shown that people are less inclined to act contrary to their words (their expressed beliefs) when they're made self-aware (usually by having a mirror in front of them, or hearing a tape of their own voice). So I'm thinking I should have decorated his house with a ton of mirrors.....

 

Anyway, does anyone else have any thoughts on becoming desensitized to cheating and/or the phenomenon of being self-aware largely preventing a mismatch between words and actions?

 

YOU have to help your partner be self-aware by being his MIRROR.

 

Most people don't realize how their actions affect others until it's pointed out to them. The best thing you can do for your partner is show them the truth. That is, if you want a partner who will grow and learn and be a good partner to you. Not one who blames you or anyone else for their choices.

 

It's easy to blame our choices on the environment or someone else. Being authentic involves looking inside and seeing who we are, and changing the traits we don't like.

 

GEL

[Got it]

I have been told the following phrase that I think helps understand people,

"some people wish about things happening, some people watch things happen, and some people make **** happen".

 

I know lots of people in life who talk the talk but can't/don't walk the walk. That is somehow in saying it that gets them close enough to it without actually having to expell any real energy or put themselves out on the line. My ex husband was like this. Talked about doing a lot of things, changing certain ways, etc but it was all talk. I finally learned that and started tuning it out. There was always one excuse or another why it wasn't going to work, a fear of something that would be the ultimate demise of the goal. But it was really the fear of failure. So it was much easier staying in the comfortable, the current, and dream about future what-ifs.

 

I see a lot of MP who have EMA's like this. They are dreamers, wishers. What I looked for in sMM's actions, every little one, was that he was someone that would make things happen. He was/is a doer. That he was not a conflict avoider by nature.

[pureinheart]

. The more one harms another and adjusts one's attitudes, the easier harm-doing becomes." Typically people come to increasingly dislike the person they are harming to justify their behavior. And significantly, this is especially true when we agree to a "bad" deed voluntarily.

 

This sounds exactly like Mr.Firebug....the deception runs so very deep that it is worse than merely being desensitised, at least in my case. The chain of events...totally unreal...first exMr.Firebug goes to test for a job bid at my old co. Most of the abuse occurred after he separated from his W and I talked to my coworkers about it as I came in one day in some bad pain due to him hurting me on his motorcycle (I think on purpose), so everyone knew of the abuse because I was a mess at work all of the time...most of the reason I am not working am thinking is due to the abuse from him...now HE is going back, possibly to get MY old job whilst I am loosing big bucks now to physical and mental disability....

 

So now I am dealing with that reality, plus the gaslighting thread that really opened my eyes and other things that people have said like one person talking about how MM justified the A by always saying they were "friends"....

 

Now your thread BL...no coincidence wow...no room for denial for me...lol...

 

 

 

In retrospect, xDM alluded to the fact that I "deserved" the treatment I got from him. That since I was "getting" him, I should tolerate the hurtful elements of his "process". Obviously he also felt his xW deserved what she got, yet at many points he'd say he couldn't look at himself int he mirror.

 

I believe BL this is how exFirebug thought....I was the doormat for everything that ever happened to him...I think he hates women...always uses the "c" word when referring to women he did not like.

 

I saw remorse in him in the beginning, but he was always justifying the A....I never could, and called it what it was. He tried to play that game with his brother and sister...I told them all straight up what the deal was. During the D he started taking a lot of meds. The only thing he seemed to be concerned about was how much money she might get.

 

 

 

 

Interestingly, much research has shown that people are less inclined to act contrary to their words (their expressed beliefs) when they're made self-aware (usually by having a mirror in front of them, or hearing a tape of their own voice). So I'm thinking I should have decorated his house with a ton of mirrors.....

 

This makes a lot of sense, he freaked when I played him a recording of one of his abuses (I recorded some of our conversations for self protection, should I need it in court as he threatened me a lot, incase there was a need for a restraining order)

 

"Man In The Mirror"....

 

 

 

 

But the thing is he's already shown that he's perfectly able to lie to both of us, to justify his reasons for doing it, ). I know I could never trust him again. It would be too easy for him to lie to me again, and again, and again.

 

Yep...Firebug IS a compulsive liar

 

 

 

 

 

. Way to blameshift. I fully believe he acted to please himself, alleviate his guilt, call it whatever you like. Yet, just in that one phrase, he tries to pit us against each other again.

 

 

I got mixed messages all of the time, carrots dangled, and much manipulation and lies.....I think he would have loved a confrontation between me and his W, but I was gonna make sure that didn't happen.

 

I wrote her an email stating that I was sorry for any of my part of her hurt...she still threatened me...either he made her crazy or she was to begin with...now she seems priddy rational ...so who knows.

 

 

 

 

Anyway, does anyone else have any thoughts on becoming desensitized to cheating and/or the phenomenon of being self-aware largely preventing a mismatch between words and actions?

 

 

I hope I get this right....for me, that was not a lifestyle, I am a straight up person most of the time, meaning we all make mistakes and lie from time to time (Firebug used to say he never lied...hahaha, what a joke...but sadly, he was serious:confused:). I do self inventories all of the time and if it is a major need I will track down a person if I have harmed them to say I am sorry.

 

In my case Firebug actually Mr. Pyro had no remorse, he cheated continuously and as bad as my case is, which there are bits and pieces all over this board, I would consider myself very arrogant to think he would not do the same thing to me.

 

In all fairness to other WS's, BS's and OW, my case is one for the books, it might be worse than I think.

Edited February 14, 2010 by pureinheart

[2sunny]

Anyway, does anyone else have any thoughts on becoming desensitized to cheating and/or the phenomenon of being self-aware largely preventing a mismatch between words and actions?

 

yes, my thoughts would be to immediately remove myself from the equation... problem solved.

[pureinheart]

BL...I can be dense sometimes and do miss a lot, although are you still with him? Forgive me if you have communicated this already, it is a very bad day

[pureinheart]

I know. I feel really stuck right now. I am still asking why he had to go and ruin everything. Still wondering if there was anything I could have done differently (other than the obvious). I guess I am just really afraid about how I've been damaged by all this. I had shaky trust in the world to begin with, now I don't think I'll be able to trust anyone ever again. I am afraid I'll end up alone and still bitter about this 3 years from now.

 

As you might imagine, this is not a good week/weekend for me. Hopefully things look a little better next week....

 

Hey, I'm right there with you it appears...bad day for me too...not really with it, you know?

 

Ummmm, BL I started intense councelling back in '93 and have been in councelling off and on since. It has been difficult as stuff just kept piling up....then MM comes on the scene and at the start of the EA I thought he would be the "savior", make everything better....boy did I F up...lol...

 

I am saying this to you because I have seen great progress in myself lately...sure I went NC during his M, but that was different and easier because I hated everything about all of it.

 

It became different once he was separated...I slipped back into very old bad patterns that I "thought" were gone....OMG it is like I had reverted and was worse than before starting councelling.

 

BL, I COULD NOT see my life without him at one time because of the same fears that you are communicating.

 

BL...NOTHING was making any sense, now we have "freedom" and are NOT "sinning" and the R is worse?????? I blamed myself for a long time...for everything.

 

You are hypersensitive right now which is normal in the abnormal circumstances. You will trust again. You will forgive and you will not be alone....these are the very same things I was afraid of and they are what kept me in the muck and the mire.

 

I finally, last summer put a stop to most of the abuse and told him to get the F out of my life....he freaked and kissed as*....so now this dance has been going on for almost a year now...then the chain of events that were explained in the last reply to your OP and I NEED to be done, for good.

 

If you are out of this or when you might get out of it, just try to be kind to you....he not only abused you, but maybe you have been abusing you too like I did...I didn't understand what was happening to me

 

I'm depressed and donot want to clean my house right now, but tomorrow I will get up and turn on my TBN (God TV..lol), get encouraged and clean the hell out of my house. One thing at a time, one day at a time.

 

Stand in there...hey guess what...some humor...last year I said to Pyro...hey what are we....he said friends...I said, ok if I meet someone you will be cool with it right?...he said yes....hahahahaha one half an hour later we went to a store and this really cute guy did not see a ring on my finger and he was not around (in a different isle) and asked me out!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!hahahahahahaha...

 

YES WE DO HAVE A FUTURE!!!!!!!!!!! Please don't buy into the lie that we don't!