Married w/ Children VS no Children

[ednadean]

Having been the OP in an EA -- I feel guilty because i know if my MM hadn't had children -- I totally would have gone there -- would have pushed the envelope a bit more. The fact that he had children always kept me on the straight and narrow, well as much as possible.

 

I think it's because anyone can make a bad marriage -- and they should have the option of finding someone more compatible. But it's almost like once you had children you reach a pt of no return -- because you're bonded to that other person for life, and you create these innocent creatures that rely upon both sets of parents to protect and love them

 

Does anyone else make that distinction? Or am I just immoral? Any thoughts?

[NoIDidn't]

I think married is married, whether they have kids or not. I tend to not like to intrude on another woman's "territory" as it were.

 

Children do create a forever bond, though. And while I have known men to leave both W and kids behind for a new relationship, its been a rare occurence.

 

I make the distinction when friends tell me they are dating a MM with kids, though. I would hope that they consider that the possibility of him leaving his W could very well hurt the kids too.

[ednadean]

hmm. yes - but what about really incompatible marriages? where neither party is happy? the reason they don't get a D is because sometimes it's just easier to stick around rather than go through an upheaval?

[NoIDidn't]

hmm. yes - but what about really incompatible marriages? where neither party is happy? the reason they don't get a D is because sometimes it's just easier to stick around rather than go through an upheaval?

 

Again, to me, married is married. It doesn't matter if he's incompatible with his W or not.

 

Incompatability is sometimes just a euphemism for "poor communication skills".

 

I don't think you are the more immoral one in dealing with a MM that has kids. I think its his job to think of his kids. I would be thinking more about mine than about his, that's for certain.

[Owl]

hmm. yes - but what about really incompatible marriages? where neither party is happy? the reason they don't get a D is because sometimes it's just easier to stick around rather than go through an upheaval?

 

I'd disagree.

 

Divorce is there to deal with incompatibilty issues.

 

Sticking around to avoid upheaval is a copout...and starting an affair is nearly always garaunteed to leave at least one person emotionally devestated and destroyed.

 

Starting an affair...beginning a new relationship when you have not truly ended the last one is the wrong path to take.

 

Here's my question for you...did MM's wife know that they were incompatible, and did she agree with and was comfortable with his relationship/affair with you? Or was she kept in the dark? Or...did she find out about the affair, and was hurt and fought to save her marriage?

 

As has been previously said...married is married. That does assume that they took the "standard vows" and had the "normal expectations of monogamy". If they had an open marriage...if they had the agreemant and understanding between them that either party was welcome to start a relationship with someone new and walk away...that's a different story. But you've not indicated that this is the case here?

[2sure]

lol. ALL marriages experience periods of incompatibility.

Some marriages dont make it through them, some are made stronger having survived them.

 

The thing is, the logistics of marriage itself are often the very things that make us stick with it through the hard times....whether we like it or not. Logistics like children, mortgages, paperwork. Those factors make many people stay during periods they would rather leave. Those factors are part of the history that make a marriage. I would say that children, of course, are the main and most important factor...but the others count too. Many times, marriages just like individuals are changing and growing - catch them during a down time - and they can break. Wait out the down time and they improve.

 

As an OW, morals and judgments aside - its way easier to have an affair with a MM not restricted by a family with children. If that also makes you feel less guilty - K.

[BlueEyedGirl]

I would definetly prefer MM without children. Then if he falls in love with you, he will most likely leave. If MM has children, then even if he truly falls for you he will make the choice to stay in the M.

[angie2443]

I would definetly prefer MM without children. Then if he falls in love with you, he will most likely leave. If MM has children, then even if he truly falls for you he will make the choice to stay in the M.

 

MM and MW do not stay in a marriage and cheat for the children. They stay because they like the security blanket that the spouse and children provide and they want the excitement of the other person on the side. They say they are staying in the marriage for the kids because it makes them look/feel better.

[cheatingheart]

I think children make a difference. They're innocent and dependent.

 

I don't think I truly believe in the sanctity of marriage in and of itself. I think any relationship worth sustaining will be strong enough on its own merits and won't need any outside protection or reinforcement. Even looking at all the marriages on this forum that remain intact despite infidelity - my guess is that most of them have more reasons for survival than a legal commitment.

[cheatingheart]

MM and MW do not stay in a marriage and cheat for the children. They stay because they like the security blanket that the spouse and children provide and they want the excitement of the other person on the side. They say they are staying in the marriage for the kids because it makes them look/feel better.

 

This isn't true for everyone.

 

It's a lot easier to abandon an adult, self-sufficient, equal partner you may not even be happy with anymore than it is to leave small innocent children who you yourself created.

[angie2443]

This isn't true for everyone.

 

It's a lot easier to abandon an adult, self-sufficient, equal partner you may not even be happy with anymore than it is to leave small innocent children who you yourself created.

 

My father cheated on my mother. I've known others who's parents cheated on their spouse. Most of them stayed in the marriage. In my case, my mother divorced my father. I can gaurentee that the straying parents do not stay for the children. The children are the last things on their minds when they're trying to decide to stay or not to stay. The ones who don't need the living security blankets, leave every time.

[cheatingheart]

My father cheated on my mother. I've known others who's parents cheated on their spouse. Most of them stayed in the marriage. In my case, my mother divorced my father. I can gaurentee that the straying parents do not stay for the children. The children are the last things on their minds when they're trying to decide to stay or not to stay. The ones who don't need the living security blankets, leave every time.

 

You still don't speak for everyone. I understand that some people might be lumping the whole family together as yesterday's unwanted business, but for other people their children are a main concern, and not because they think of the children as "living security blankets". Even if this was your own personal experience, you're not the only person who has experience with infidelity.

[datura_noir]

I usually don't post in this forum, out of respect for the guidelines and because it is so rife with drama. That being said...

 

My husband and I have no children together;we each have kids of our own, and when he had his affair, the kids were grown and out of here-my youngest being 18 and uber-independant, and his never lived with us. We don't even have mutual assets; no property, no ties, nothing.

 

I have gotten the feeling, through reading here, that some people think that the only TRUE love exists between a MM/MW and an OW/OM. Gosh, I sometimes feel like I need to go find my own MM just to experience true luuuuvvv....

 

But seriously, my husband stayed and rolled up his sleeves because.....drumroll please..........

 

HE LOVES ME

 

And whatever he had or thought he had with whatsherface, was not reality-only an escape from a stale relationship.

 

Yes, relationships do get boring and monotonous after so long. I was bored too. Hence my preoccupation with my job and my FOO (family of origin). In fact, we were both soooo bored, that we were like ships passing in the night.

 

But, we drew on what brought us together all those years ago.....and it was hard, and I was bitter (still angry at times), he felt guilty, but nothing was keeping him here. I didn't beg, as a matter of fact, I left him for a while and told him that if he wanted me, he knew where to find me.

 

And you know what?? He was the one who wanted to reconcile. My condition was of course, NC and some major commitments from him. He agreed, and we've been going stronger ever since.

 

So, IMHO, two people that have an emotional, sexual, financial and familial history even with no children-will always find a way back, unless BOTH decide that they want it to end.

 

My 2 cents, thank you very much.....

[bentnotbroken]

I usually don't post in this forum, out of respect for the guidelines and because it is so rife with drama. That being said...

 

My husband and I have no children together;we each have kids of our own, and when he had his affair, the kids were grown and out of here-my youngest being 18 and uber-independant, and his never lived with us. We don't even have mutual assets; no property, no ties, nothing.

 

I have gotten the feeling, through reading here, that some people think that the only TRUE love exists between a MM/MW and an OW/OM. Gosh, I sometimes feel like I need to go find my own MM just to experience true luuuuvvv....

 

But seriously, my husband stayed and rolled up his sleeves because.....drumroll please..........

 

HE LOVES ME

 

And whatever he had or thought he had with whatsherface, was not reality-only an escape from a stale relationship.

 

Yes, relationships do get boring and monotonous after so long. I was bored too. Hence my preoccupation with my job and my FOO (family of origin). In fact, we were both soooo bored, that we were like ships passing in the night.

 

But, we drew on what brought us together all those years ago.....and it was hard, and I was bitter (still angry at times), he felt guilty, but nothing was keeping him here. I didn't beg, as a matter of fact, I left him for a while and told him that if he wanted me, he knew where to find me.

 

And you know what?? He was the one who wanted to reconcile. My condition was of course, NC and some major commitments from him. He agreed, and we've been going stronger ever since.

 

So, IMHO, two people that have an emotional, sexual, financial and familial history even with no children-will always find a way back, unless BOTH decide that they want it to end.

 

My 2 cents, thank you very much.....

 

 

You're welcome:D He loves you, and he shows you by his actions. That makes me smile today. God bless you.

[SidLyon]

I usually don't post in this forum, out of respect for the guidelines and because it is so rife with drama. That being said...

 

My husband and I have no children together;we each have kids of our own, and when he had his affair, the kids were grown and out of here-my youngest being 18 and uber-independant, and his never lived with us. We don't even have mutual assets; no property, no ties, nothing.

 

I have gotten the feeling, through reading here, that some people think that the only TRUE love exists between a MM/MW and an OW/OM. Gosh, I sometimes feel like I need to go find my own MM just to experience true luuuuvvv....

 

But seriously, my husband stayed and rolled up his sleeves because.....drumroll please..........

 

HE LOVES ME

 

And whatever he had or thought he had with whatsherface, was not reality-only an escape from a stale relationship.

 

Yes, relationships do get boring and monotonous after so long. I was bored too. Hence my preoccupation with my job and my FOO (family of origin). In fact, we were both soooo bored, that we were like ships passing in the night.

 

But, we drew on what brought us together all those years ago.....and it was hard, and I was bitter (still angry at times), he felt guilty, but nothing was keeping him here. I didn't beg, as a matter of fact, I left him for a while and told him that if he wanted me, he knew where to find me.

 

And you know what?? He was the one who wanted to reconcile. My condition was of course, NC and some major commitments from him. He agreed, and we've been going stronger ever since.

 

So, IMHO, two people that have an emotional, sexual, financial and familial history even with no children-will always find a way back, unless BOTH decide that they want it to end.

 

My 2 cents, thank you very much.....

 

There's no doubt that my H told the OW that he was staying with me for the sake of the children who were very young at the time the A started.

 

Many years later at D-day (which was 7 months ago), our children are now both teenagers who are now capable of understanding what's going on. They are also far too old to be the subject of an ugly custody battle between us as they will be legally adults in 3 years. There is no way my H would stop being their father or no longer have contact with them if we were to split up. What's more he knows that this would have applied equally when they were younger.

 

While I want to rebuild our marriage I have also made it abundantly clear that I will not be "stayed with" just for the sake of the children. I don't want to be "settled for" on this basis. To his credit my H has not used this in his attempts to reconcile with me - it has totally been on the basis that he loves me, always has and always will and that I am his chosen life partner. But I know he loved the OW.

 

I have a lot of difficulty reconciling this and maybe never will.

 

I can therefore appreciate that OW can only come to terms with it themselves by believing that their MM don't leave their wives because of the children. So many MM "use" this one in a major way to justify to the OW why they are having an A but not leaving their wives and yet when the W finds out the argument is that the OW was just a bit on the side.

 

I never buy the sake of the children/family argument because for that to apply it would mean their welfare meant more to him than his wife's and if so, he would never have the A, which is just as much a betrayal of them as of her (if he is to be beleived).

 

Maybe it is just unexplainable or maybe it is just that the MM want a bit on the side - albeit that the feelings of love for the OW can be very real.

 

I don't know if there are any MM on this site who wanted to stay with their wives after d-day. I'd be interested to know if so if you are staying for the sake for the children but have to pretend to your wife that it is really because you love her.

 

S

[fooled once]

I think it's because anyone can make a bad marriage -- and they should have the option of finding someone more compatible.

 

So you think it is okay to sleep with someone else's husband if they DON'T have children, but if they do, then that is immoral???

 

Really?

 

Yes, sometimes marriages fall apart.

 

But the moral thing to do is NOT sleep with someone else IF you are married - kids or NO kids.

 

What is wrong with divorce before screwing around?

[fooled once]

I would definetly prefer MM without children. Then if he falls in love with you, he will most likely leave. If MM has children, then even if he truly falls for you he will make the choice to stay in the M.

 

I could not disagree more.

 

How many threads have we seen on here where the MM loooovvveeesss the OW yet he has chosen to stay with his wife -- even without kids.

 

I just don't get why so many younger women who enter affairs with older MM don't understand that for the majority, these men aren't going to leave their wives, their families (even without kids, there are still families involved), their history for the new young girl who has naively entered into a relationship with him. It is the RARE case where a MM leaves his wife for his OW. Rare.

[ednadean]

I'd disagree.

 

Here's my question for you...did MM's wife know that they were incompatible, and did she agree with and was comfortable with his relationship/affair with you? Or was she kept in the dark? Or...did she find out about the affair, and was hurt and fought to save her marriage?

 

 

Well -- it was only ever an EA [although I know they're both wrong -- I just think EA's are easier to accidentally slip into].

No - the wife never knew. She may have known there was a bit of contact but never the amount of contact.

I think she knew they were mildly incompatible (not miserable, they probably both could have married more compatible partners) but definitely not that he was so miserable.

 

Agree with you that divorce is there for incompatability issues -- but when you have children -- and all your financial assets together it becomes a somewhat different story -- in the practical world.

[ednadean]

I could not disagree more.

 

How many threads have we seen on here where the MM loooovvveeesss the OW yet he has chosen to stay with his wife -- even without kids.

 

I just don't get why so many younger women who enter affairs with older MM don't understand that for the majority, these men aren't going to leave their wives, their families (even without kids, there are still families involved), their history for the new young girl who has naively entered into a relationship with him. It is the RARE case where a MM leaves his wife for his OW. Rare.

 

Completely agree with you Fooled Once. MM rarely leaves -- especially after 10 or 15 years of marriage. I don't know whether it's a security blanket or not.

 

I guess the reason a lot of younger women enter into affairs is that the older men are everything you want them to be. Hence probably why they're already married LOL! I want an older man -- and the ones that are still bachelors at around 40, usually have committment problems.

 

Also, I think I flirted with this older MM thinking was was 100% safe (and by flirting I just mean communicating with him heavily, nothing sexy) - I thought he was 100% happy in his marriage. I literally ignored all his flirting back (so stupid in hindsight) because I assumed I was misreading the signs. It was actually a SHOCK when he came out and told me he was miserable.

LOL I guess I AM naive.

 

And yes - I agree that the best thing to do in all these cases is wait for a divorce to come through. It's just difficult in practice, because in practice, people usually don't divorce their wives/husbands for nothing, it usually requires someone else on the scene. And even then, it's rare. Therefore, if you just wait for a divorce, it probably will never happen -- so you have the question of whether you allow yourself to have a little bit of him (crumbs) or nothing. the LOGICAL thing is always to have nothing -- but sometimes when you're in love, or think you're in love, those lines become blurred.

[NoIDidn't]

I usually don't post in this forum, out of respect for the guidelines and because it is so rife with drama. That being said...

 

My husband and I have no children together;we each have kids of our own, and when he had his affair, the kids were grown and out of here-my youngest being 18 and uber-independant, and his never lived with us. We don't even have mutual assets; no property, no ties, nothing.

 

I have gotten the feeling, through reading here, that some people think that the only TRUE love exists between a MM/MW and an OW/OM. Gosh, I sometimes feel like I need to go find my own MM just to experience true luuuuvvv....

 

But seriously, my husband stayed and rolled up his sleeves because.....drumroll please..........

 

HE LOVES ME

 

And whatever he had or thought he had with whatsherface, was not reality-only an escape from a stale relationship.

 

Yes, relationships do get boring and monotonous after so long. I was bored too. Hence my preoccupation with my job and my FOO (family of origin). In fact, we were both soooo bored, that we were like ships passing in the night.

 

But, we drew on what brought us together all those years ago.....and it was hard, and I was bitter (still angry at times), he felt guilty, but nothing was keeping him here. I didn't beg, as a matter of fact, I left him for a while and told him that if he wanted me, he knew where to find me.

 

And you know what?? He was the one who wanted to reconcile. My condition was of course, NC and some major commitments from him. He agreed, and we've been going stronger ever since.

 

So, IMHO, two people that have an emotional, sexual, financial and familial history even with no children-will always find a way back, unless BOTH decide that they want it to end.

 

My 2 cents, thank you very much.....

 

You know, even with our children, my husband wanted to leave. I wanted to leave. After d-day number two!!! we both had some decisions to make. Other than the fact the I didn't move out, and neither did he (the kids do make that rather difficult to do when they are in school) - the story becomes similar to yours.

 

He wanted to reconcile. I wanted to be married, but hadn't decided yet on reconciling. How is THAT for confusing or "complicated"?! LOL.

 

Anyway, I agree with you datura_noir. They don't all stay for the kids, they stay for us most of the time.

[Stung]

In my case ... The ones who don't need the living security blankets, leave every time.

 

Your personal anecdotal evidence does not add up to "every time," sorry.

 

 

In any case, cast my vote in with those upthread who point out that every marriage suffers down periods of 'incompatibility.' I don't believe it's ethical to take advantage of these, kids or no kids.

 

But yes, when there are children involved, I do think it's worse.

 

As for those who believe men only stay for the kids...my father was unfaithful to my mother, as well, when I was quite young. She found out, kicked him out, terminated a pregnancy, and was ready to file for divorce. My father came back quite determinedly. I still remember the fighting, it was awful. It is my understanding that the OW was convinced he came back only because of me. My parents enrolled in marriage counseling. They recently celebrated their 39th anniversary with a romantic cruise. They travel quite a lot now that they're enjoying their retirement together. They're very affectionate with one another, and certainly seem rock-solid to me. I've been out of the house for, oh, about seventeen years now. I'm pretty sure he's not staying for me at this point.

 

Again, however...that's just anecdotal evidence.