Nervous

[Hopefulwife]

First time poster here. A little background, married 22 years 3 children. Learned 4 years ago H had been having a 1year long term affair. When I learned of that affair (late 2014) it came to light there had been a previous affair (different woman) that also lasted a year. The affair I learned of lasted 4 years (false reconciliation for 3 years 2014-2018) H left early last year (2018) and was gone approx 5 months.

 

He didn’t move in with the AP but I believe he moved out to be with her. After 5 months he suddenly decided to come home. There were a few times he came and stayed with us during those 5 months. He was home 2 months when I found a journal he’d been writing in, very well hidden but I was on high alert since we’d only been together a short time and many years of false reconciliation. The things he wrote about the AP shredded me to say the least.

 

The feelings, the things they shared, trips, dates, family gatherings, what he wanted for their future and how he is destroyed because he ruined it. It wasn’t just sex but What appears to be a very close relationship. I suppose prior to reading this journal I had made myself believe it was mostly sex and convenience. Also what he wrote about me and our marriage ( there out of obligation and didn’t want to lose his children) After reading it and realizing how deeply he felt for her I kicked him out. I was so angry and hurt. I told him I was moving myself and children back to our hometown. Towards the end of the year we decided to attempt reconciliation again. As far as I know he has had no communication with this AP.

 

Reconciliation has been shaky, we’ve been to a few sessions of MC and I’ve been in IC for several years. H seems depressed and almost resigned to our life together. Sex rarely happens ( he does not seem interested) we do things together as a family and have a good time. Took a real family vacation a few weeks ago for the first time in 4 years!! I was so excited and happy and he just seemed indifferent unless he was interacting with the kids. We just bought a house (huge step) we sold our home 5 years ago and have rented a home since that time due to the state of our marriage. I suppose my nervousness recently is we have purchased a home but I don’t feel H is where he wants to be. IC tells me to give it time that H needs to grieve the AP and the 4 yr relationship they had, this is so hard because they shouldn’t have had a relationship to begin with. I want him to get over her and re-engage in our M. IC said this may be as good as it gets for us. I will say prior to the A’s he was very attentive and loving and I had put my children and other relationships ahead of marriage (no excuse for an A but I recognize my part in how things happened) I did speak to his AP after I found the journal (for the first time in the 4 years) I could tell she loves him.

 

She answered my questions with yes/no answers and was more pleasant that I expected (which made me feel even worse, it would be easier for me if she was a mean and nasty person) She answered questions about times/events I’d always questioned so I do feel I finally have an accurate (or as close as I am going to get) of the affair. Again I suppose my nervousness comes from feeling like option B and now we have just bought new vehicles and a home. I am a stay at home mom of 3 ( 10, 12, 14) I do work for a friend part time but it’s only about 200.00 a month. There is no way I can afford this life without H support. Did we rush into buying a home and vehicles because we were caught up in being together again.

 

I think I’d feel better if he showed more signs of happiness regarding our marriage. He says he loves me, he will hold my hand, he does nice things for me but I can tell the passion and deep love does not exist there. Anyone experienced this after a spouse breaks off a long term affair? I worry he will reach out to her again or find someone new. His affairs did not just happen, he admitted early on he was seeking out these relationships.

Edited July 5, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[stillafool]

From reading your post I have to ask myself why a woman would put up with such blatant disrespect and still want a life with this person. It is clear he wants to be with the OW and is only there for the kids. I'm sorry if that hurts but that is how I see it. Yes I think it was a bad idea to buy a house with a man who seems like he doesn't want to be there except for the kids. You can't make someone love you and nor make them fall out of love with someone else. I think you should get a full time job so you are ready for his next exit. Also don't forget he will have to pay you child support for the 4 kids which will also help a lot.

[Hopefulwife]

Thank you for your reply stillafool. I need to hear these opinions. Our counselor says give it time etc. I suppose I’m looking for people who have lived through this and their insight. My counselor has been married for 30 years and never been through this. While I know she means well and has given good advice she has no personal experience with infidelity. I feel like I’m investing myself into a marriage and a person that is just going to continue to feel like he’s settled. I also believe in my vows but I don’t know that my husband is as committed as I am ( I know he wasn’t before, says he is now but I have lots of doubts) obviously I don’t trust his intentions. He knows I don’t have a lot of trust and he is working to earn that back.

[Hopefulwife]

The crazy this about all of this is we have the “appearance “ of a perfectly happily married couple. Nice cars, nice home, amazing children, kids play sports, attend church. H has a great job, prior to this vacations to Hawaii, California, NY. We look like we “have it all” living the great American dream, ha! What happens to men in their late 30’s early 40’s that makes them want to put all they’ve worked for at such great risk? I just do not understand.

[Hopefulwife]

Stillafool to answer your question, why am I still here and why do I put up with this? I believe it’s because I deeply love this man, we have been together since we were teenagers. He is my best friend. I feel like he went down the wrong path and is just hurting. I am hopeful that now that no contact is truly happening we have a chance at true reconciliation. I don’t think I can walk away until I try at reconciliation knowing there is truly now no contact with the other person. I have read it can take 2-5 years after real no contact to repair and that it takes a lot of work on both sides. I want my family together. My husband is a good man and father just not the best husband the last 6 years. Do I throw away a marriage of 22 years because of that or do I hang on and pray we can be repaired and maybe even better than before.

[mark clemson]

It sounds to me very much like your husband has fallen out of love with you, or if he does love you it's in a familial type of way - and that is not enough for him (certainly not enough to stop him from multiple infidelities).

 

I think the unfortunate reality is that if you stay with him there will always be the chance that he does this again. If you really plan on staying, think you should ask that HE do IC to see if he can get to a state where what you have together is enough for him so this stops happening.

[Amethyst68]

Hi, I believe it's supposed to be 2-5yrs to achieve reconciliation but that's only where WS is showing true remorse and working hard to try and first figure out their deep down reasons for the affair. Answer any and all questions about the affair and the affair partner (AP). Do whatever is needed to help the marriage heal from the affair before starting to look at pre-affair issues.

 

I don't mean to be harsh but what you have described is not a couple in reconciliation, it's one person who wants to be and one person who has possibly taken their affair underground, or if not is going through motions. I personally would start looking again.

 

I'd recommend getting a new IC, one who understands that while you own half of marriage issues pre-affair you own absolutely none of his decision to cheat. That lies with him alone, he had other options he simply chose the most damaging one. Oh and as for grieving the AP, maybe so but he does not get to do it in front of you. Remember, in R he's meant to be supportive of you not his AP. So again I urge you to look up an IC who specialises in infidelity.

 

You need to be strong, may try the 180, I think there's a thread here but if not Google it. You don't need to do the full version but try and distance yourself. This man's too comfortable. Good luck going forward.

[Amethyst68]

Just wanted to say what Mark said is also a good valid point. BS's stay in marriages for their children all the time, I'm positive WS do too. If this is the case it's important for you to figure out if this is enough for you.

[Hopefulwife]

Thank you for your reply mark Clemson. I do feel a big part of why he came back and remains is it’s familiar, comfortable, predictable. He has been in IC since the beginning of the year. He is making progress (slow) but I believe in the right direction. Our MC and IC (he sees one IC and I see another) but in the same practice as well as the MC, they do specialize in infidelity. His IC shared with our MC that I threatened him with the children and that’s a big factor in why he came home. I’ll admit I did this at some level however we all know no one can stop him from being a father to his children. I threatened to move out of state which would severely limit his ability but I did that because I need support from my own family and there are not local.

 

I don’t believe he will seek out a new affair however I do believe given the opportunity he would go back to the last affair partner. At this time I don’t believe she wants anything to do with him (due to various reasons) and I think that’s why he’s here. He doesn’t not see her as a life option at this point.

[Hopefulwife]

Thank you amethyst68 for your reply. I do not believe he has taken the affair underground, IC does not either. Mainly based on his depressed and indifferent state. When the affair was going on he was normal/happy/. He is clearly grieving and has been since the affair ended. The AP essentially informed me that he tried to reconnect once he moved back home and she told him not to contact her again unless he had divorce papers in hand that she wanted no part of an affair ever again and that she would inform me should he reach out again (she told me this when I reached out to her and he confirmed this when I confronted him) It did come up in MC that the AP has blocked both of our phone numbers, emails and social media accounts. He confessed that he was actively looking and would even log into my FB and found that I was blocked too. I think that really shocked and hurt him but he deserves it.

 

I am doing the 180, started over the weekend. Not full but a lot and he notices but doesn’t say much about it. I have a counseling appointment this afternoon and we have MC appointment on Friday. Essentially what all the counselors agree on is that it will take time and to go through the motions in the meantime and in most cases the relationship is restored and a lot of times better than it was before. I just want to hear from people that have possibly experienced this themselves. This isn’t something I can exactly bring up at church or girls night out. I have 2 friends that know everything and are supportive. When he left last year I did tell friends family and the reasons why we were separated. They all know he is home and we are working it out but other than that no one really knows the details (except the counselors and my 2 friends) ugh it last just such a grind.

[RecentChange]

Both my husband and I have cheated.

 

And have been reconciled for years now, and I can honestly say we are stronger as a couple than we were before.

 

Key differences? My affair was all about sex and excitement. There was no emotional connection with my AP beyond enjoying the ego stroking.

 

My affair lasted a few months - and when the S hit the fan - I was ALL IN as far as reconciliation goes - it was my full time job. My heart was shattered by the pain I caused my husband. I can’t imagine moping about an AP - talk about self absorbed.

 

And my husband? Years prior he had a few day fling while on a business trip. We both went to counseling, we talked, we did the work.

 

Years, YEARS of betrayal? Falling in love with, and planning a life with someone else?

 

I don’t know how a couple can ever truly recover from something like that. It takes a certain kind of person to lie to your spouse every day for years.

[schlumpy]

I can see that you want to reconcile. I hope you succeed.

 

But in case you don't, please open up an emergency fund account that only you know about and attempt to fund it up to ten thousand dollars. That should cover any surprises in case you are blind sided in the future. It would be a prudent move to protect yourself. You can always use it for a surprise anniversary vacation sometime in the future when your relationship is on firmer ground. Surprise Honey!

 

I'm barely an intern here but I suggest you back read as many pages as you can handle in this (infidelity) forum and try to find threads that match up with your situation. Those threads should give you a good idea of what will work for you and what won't work. They could possibly give you a deeper insight into your husbands thought process so you can stay step a head of him. There is no sense in reinventing the wheel when you have this resource available.

 

Ask some of the old hands here to jog their memories for threads that they think could help you.

 

It may take you a couple months to get through all the pages but maybe you will find what you need in the first hundred. For you it would be good investment of your time because it's obvious that you are into R one hundred and fifty percent.

 

Best Wishes

[Amethyst68]

You do realise you would not have been asked to take your children out of state without getting your husband's permission first? If he did not agree you would have had to have gone through the courts.

[Hopefulwife]

Thank you for your reply recent change. I believe I made a huge mistake allowing H to stay in the home while actively having an affair for 4 years. Of course I was told it was over etc but I continued to find evidence and he would confess, wash - rinse - repeat. During the 3 years after the initial DDay H affection towards me ceased to exist. We were essentially roommates that barley had anything nice to say to one another. I didn’t hear I love you for at least 2 years. No physical interaction what so ever, holding hands, peck on the cheek and certainly no sex. I suppose the reason I have some small amount of hope is that some of the physical aspect has returned (slowly but it’s increasing as time passes) we are able to have some deep conversation and finally felt ok enough about a future to purchase a home and new vehicles.

 

I’ve never felt as if he was working his rear end off to reconcile and I believe it’s because I tolerated such disrespect prior to the A actually being over. I know he feels regret and shame over his behavior. I also know he doesn’t want to feel as if he has to kiss my back side for the rest of his life just to remain married.

 

The fact that he did intend on having a future together with her is extremely difficult to get past. I read all about it in his journals ( I did turn that over to the counselor for help understanding all of what I had read, with H permission of course) We decided to let the MC read as well.H said he regretted nothing he had written nor would he have journaled differently knowing I would read it. He said he felt it helped me understand the relationship was more than sex (this is true) The MC said that it is likely H will always love the AP but over time the thoughts and feelings will be minimal (as long as NC is maintained) I sit here in our beautiful new home with our children and wonder why it wasn’t enough for him and can it ever be.

[Hopefulwife]

Thank you for your reply schlumpy. After H came back home he signed a post nuptial agreement. He stands to lose quite a bit should he cheat again. I do have my own account that I have been putting savings into, but excellent advice! I have read through many threads here but if anyone knows of any that are similar to this please do post the link.

[Hopefulwife]

Amethyst68 I am aware I cannot take the children out of state without his agreement. At a point he had agreed to let me do so, almost as if he’d given up completely. His work schedule is such that he only saw the kids on the weekends ( he did seem them every Friday/Saturday/Sunday) unless the kids and I had specific plans. His parents are elderly and live close by so I know he felt if I went out of state he would not be able to follow due to that. So it would limit his time with the kids, to say he was upset about it would be an understatement but I believe he realized I needed the support of my family. Neither of us are originally from where we currently live so I felt no need to stay. I staying just made it easier on him and he could just keep his relationship going.

 

I have told him many times I believe we should move closer to family and out of state, far far away from any temptation to reconnect with the former AP but with the kids engaged in activities and school and their ages it just isn’t ideal.

[pepperbird]

op,

my spouse cheated over then years ago, and we are still together. We've bee married almost 22 years now ( this august)

 

When a WS asks for a reconciliation ( or agrees to one) he or she has a lot of hard work to do. This being said, the feelings of the BS, which they have roundly stomped over for such a long time, need to take pride of place. His need to "grieve" is bull.

 

When I say that, I don't mean he shouldn't grieve the loss of his affair, What I mean is he has NO business bringing that down on you. He also has no business staying for the kids while continuously being a sad sack and dragging you down with him. That is a terrible environment for your kids,and if you don't think they notice, you're sorely mistaken.

 

 

OP, It's time for you to get off the "hopium" and develop a spine of steel. Turf your IC, and talk to a lawyer. Find out about your rights and responsibilities, and arm yourself with knowledge. Your husband is a serial cheater, and this past Ow is nothing special. She's just the latest, and once your back is turned, he may well slink back to her or find someone else. You Can NOT Trust Him!!!!!!

 

Please, take a cold, dispassionate look at him and your situation. You are not happy, and if you continue to wait for him to get his head on straight, you may well be waiting forever.

 

I'm not saying divorce, but what I am saying to arm yourself as best you can for that possibility. That way, you will be in control of your own life. Don't tell him you are doing this....just do it. Start building a life separate from him, and if he notices and asks, explain that you can't rust him, but you are sick of waiting around for him. I would also tell him that if he wants to be with is OW, you won't stand in his way.

 

I know it feels like you are doing what's right for your kids, but they will most certainly be affected by his behavior.

[Hopefulwife]

Hi Pepperbird. Thank you taking the time to ready and reply. If you don’t mind me asking how long was your H’s affair? What made him decide to reconcile?

 

I completely agree he has no business bringing his grief over the AP home to me or our children. He is away from home enough that he should be doing that on his own time. (traveling weekly, works in sales - gone almost every Mon-Thurs) his traveling is an obvious source of disagreement between us currently, I believe it provides opportunity to be unfaithful. His comment was if someone wants to cheat they will regardless. While I agree with that I also feel that creating less opportunity especially now is more important. Unfortunately he cannot find a career locally that has a salary that is even close to what he makes and now that we’ve purchased a home and upgraded vehicles it makes it almost impossible. He does have location services on, FaceTime, etc but just as he said if someone wants to be unfaithful they will.

 

After reading on here I believe it is in my best interest to go seek legal advice and also look into finding a different counselor. My children have been impacted, especially the oldest. When I kicked him out last year she would not even speak to him in person or on the phone (they have always been very close) it has taken time for them to get back to where they were prior to him moving out early last year. The kids don’t know the specifics of what is going on (affair, as far as I know) they just believe we weren’t getting along and know we are trying to make things work. I think we all breathed a sigh of relief when H suggested buying a home. It gave us a sense of security I suppose that he was/is planning on staying here.

 

H comes home this evening from his traveling so we will see how the long weekend goes.

[mark clemson]

The fact that he did intend on having a future together with her is extremely difficult to get past. I read all about it in his journals ( I did turn that over to the counselor for help understanding all of what I had read, with H permission of course) We decided to let the MC read as well.H said he regretted nothing he had written nor would he have journaled differently knowing I would read it. He said he felt it helped me understand the relationship was more than sex (this is true) The MC said that it is likely H will always love the AP but over time the thoughts and feelings will be minimal (as long as NC is maintained) I sit here in our beautiful new home with our children and wonder why it wasn’t enough for him and can it ever be.

 

 

If you're like many people, you may remember having really bad crushes in high school or college - teenage years, etc. It turns out that same brain circuitry doesn't go away in most people it just goes dormant and then as adults we can "fall in love" with that same addictive level of intensity under the right circumstances. It's known as limerence and I'd wager a guess it may be why your husband was so into this particular OW.

 

It's NOT an excuse by any means. As said he had a prior OW so clearly he'd been fishing for a while. And it gives him absolutely no business to be planning a whole new life with her while still in the marriage with you. It might however explain why he's so into this particular OW. From what I've read, for the vast majority of people limerence fades after 1-3 years. However if he continues to idealize her because of the limerence, that is probably not helpful to anyone. Perhaps this could be another topic for IC/MC?

[Mr. Lucky]

I have read through many threads here but if anyone knows of any that are similar to this please do post the link.

 

Hopefulwife, I basically lived your exact situation. Wife cheated (like you, I was a distracted and inattentive spouse), D-Day came, she left but returned home. Since we had a young son and I'd played some part in the disconnect, I tried very hard to make it work. We did MC, marriage re-commitment weekends, etc.

 

And still one thing gradually revealed itself - while she was no longer in love with her AP, she wasn't in love with me either. The shell was still there, but the spirit had left the building. Honestly, I think she was actually relieved when I finally filed for divorce.

 

Everyone has their own priorities and decisions to make. For me, crumbs weren't enough, I felt I (and her too, I cared about her) deserved the real thing. YMMV...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Prudence V]

I just want to hear from people that have possibly experienced this themselves.

 

I’ve been through this from the other side - my H allowed an attempted reconciliation with his xW “for the kids” but there was no love left and of course it never really recovered. As soon as the kids were old enough, he left. From what you’ve described, this may be your H’s game plan too. His feelings for his OW are probably just on ice, since he knows she won’t take him back until he has his D papers in hand - and he may be biding his time until he can do that without worrying about you taking the kids away from him. Given their ages, that probably seems to him like not too long to have to wait - at which point he can move out, have a fresh start with his OW and cut his losses in a M he’s just not invested in.

 

He may have signed a postnup, and he may be willing to stay “faithful” (in body if not in spirit) until such time as he can leave properly, but that sounds more like an act of resignation than a display of commitment. His actions don’t show someone desperate to make it work with you. However much you love him, you cannot make this work on your own.

 

You need to decide if you’re willing to spend a few more years - until your kids reach whatever magical age he’s designated as “old enough” - living in this hollow marriage, going through the motions, while he pines and plans for his new life post-D... or if you’d rather pull the plug on the charade and live more authentically, alone or perhaps with a new partner in the future who actually loves you and wants to be with you. It’s a difficult choice, with pros and cons both ways, but one you need to face. No amount of MC or IC can make him want to love you the way you want him to, if his heart is elsewhere. This is how it’s going to be (at best) - is that what you’re choosing, or would you rather pull the plug on the hollow hope?

[Maddie82]

Only one sentence in your post clarified everything for me 'he admitted that he actively went looking for these other relationships'. That says it all. He checked out of the marriage a long time ago because you are not what he wants. But you are fooling yourself into believing that he loves you because of how strongly you feel for him. The truth is right there in front of you and its never going to go away. He fell in love with someone else. Regardless of how much distance you put between them, it doesn't change what he feels for the AP.

[Hopefulwife]

Mark Clemson, thank you for the information regarding limerence. I read up on that last night and it makes sense. I had a conversation with H about it this morning to get his thoughts and it did not go so well. He said he is tired of others invalidating what he felt/feels. He said if he was not married not one person would call this limerence or invalidate what he feels/felt. I replied but you are/were married.

 

It did give opportunity for him to open up about their relationship and the differences were between our marriage and his affair. We had what I would say is the norm/average relationship prior to his affair. Got along well, few arguments, sex 3-4 times a month (he says now that during that time he didn't feel as if I enjoyed or wanted sex - not the case) making sure kids were where they were supposed to be and had what they needed, paying bills, him working, and me taking care of things on the home front (although he says I wasn't doing my part - I will confess that cooking and cleaning are not priorities so there were many nights the kids and I went out to eat.

 

I did the laundry but rarely put it away and would pick up the house but had someone come in a do the heavy cleaning. He says he felt like I had what I wanted out of life and was essentially on autopilot enjoying life while he was working and then coming home and taking care of things I had "neglected" during the week. He did try to have conversations with me about this over the years and I admit I was not receptive to what I felt was criticism. It isn't a walk in the park to have 3 kids to take care of all week with no help from a spouse. I have worked on improving myself as far as taking a more active role in household chores and working part time outside of the home. He essentially said in a lot of ways he felt used and unappreciated.

 

As far as the AP, he said they talked about everything (Some of my biggest hurts came when I read his journal and found he had shared things about his childhood/teen years with her that I had never heard before) I know she works full time and is apparently very intelligent, not that I am not but I suppose the fact that she can support herself had some appeal. He said she was an excellent cook, housekeeper in addition to working 40hours a week and apparently her schedule is such that she is able to pick her children up from school and do all the mom things. They were very physically affectionate with one another, holding hands a lot, kissing a lot, having sex a lot.

 

From what I've gathered from each of them and reading the journal entries when he was with her their affair was more of a "normal" relationship. He was involved in her kids lives (this is gut wrenching to me - he could have/should have been investing that time into his own children and marriage) they had date nights, went shopping, worked in the yard, went to her family functions etc. There was no sneaking and hiding like you would typically see in an affair.

 

I feel like he was living two lives for a long time. Is it limerence, I hope that it was and that time and distance will bring healing to him and us as a couple. I am so desperate for him to be the man I married and have known for over half of my life. I am seeking out a new counselor and I will for sure bring up the limerence and see if they feel this applies to our situation.

Edited July 5, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Hopefulwife]

Mr Lucky, I am sorry you lived through this terrible situation. I do not wish this upon anyone. We are attending a marriage intensive next weekend. I have read on the website that they have seen couples in much worse situations and come through closer and reconnected so I do have some amount of hope.

 

I do at times feel like he wants me to end the marriage ( to take the burden of the decision off his shoulders, cowardly I know) I have verbalized this many times in the last several months, while he understands why I feel/think this way he assures me this is not what he is doing. He said this morning that he would not have bought a new home if that was true. Prior to moving we could afford to live separately, now that isn't possible without selling this house which isn't an option at the moment since we have only been here for a little under a month. He said he felt like the move and knowing that would give me some assurance, and it did initially.

 

Crumbs are not enough for me and I know they are not for him either. I will just take a day at a time and go to counseling and continue to work on myself.

[Maddie82]

Mark Clemson, thank you for the information regarding limerence. I read up on that last night and it makes sense. I had a conversation with H about it this morning to get his thoughts and it did not go so well. He said he is tired of others invalidating what he felt/feels. He said if he was not married not one person would call this limerence or invalidate what he feels/felt. I replied but you are/were married. It did give opportunity for him to open up about their relationship and the differences were between our marriage and his affair.....

 

He will never be the man you first married again i'm afraid. You are desperately clinging to him but nothing will be the same. I agree with the person who commented that he is just there for the children until they are grown. Postnup wont stop a cheater.

Edited July 5, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator