Depressed and untrusting

[Songbird4]

I’ve been married for 13 years. We have 4 children and before his emotional affair I thought things between us were pretty good. I did catch him a few times early on in our marriage, emailing an ex and another woman. That definitely changed things and made me more aware. We decided to work through issues.

 

Fast forward to a night when I got home late from work. He was asleep. I had this strong urge to check his phone. I turned on the screen and saw a woman’s text telling him she couldn’t make it to breakfast as planned. Eventually he confessed. They went out to eat, bars, talked and text often.... who knows what else. They worked together. He claims no sex but definitely an emotional affair. If they hadn’t had sex then it was only a matter of time.

 

I was shocked. I was head over heels for him. I doted on him. Im adventurous and playful. I have a high sex drive and sexually we were on fire. I’m fit and consider myself attractive....yet he strayed. He took the bait of some woman who made it known that she wanted him. His ego was stroked.

 

When I found out I changed that very moment. I was now jaded. I’m untrusting and cold. He says I love you and I can’t say it back. I’ve always been incredibly loyal. I would never cheat so finding out that the man I loved betrayed me just broke my heart. He told the OW that his marriage was horrible. I couldn’t believe it. I’ve been in therapy since this happened, 3 years ago. What makes this situation worse is that I’ve caught him being inappropriate. Example: messaging a random woman on LinkedIn offering her assistance with work, they’re in the same field of work. Other examples is insisting on carpooling to work but only with a woman, but never try and carpool with a man. He would have text exchange with coworkers...

 

 

I can’t heal and get over this because he’s proven he will continue to lie.

 

Has anyone experienced something similar? Did you stay in the marriage or divorce? If you stayed, how did you heal?

 

Also, WHY do some men cheat? I know that’s a question with multiple answers but I just don’t understand because I’m not wired to do that... or allow myself to do that.

 

 

TIA

[Mr. Lucky]

Also, WHY do some men cheat?

 

A better question is "WHY do some women stay with men who cheat - multiple times"?

 

Songbird4, there's a saying in the newspaper biz - once is bad luck, twice is coincidence but three times is a trend. And your husband's trend is not towards fidelity, commitment or transparency.

 

I don't know why he does what he does but am more curious about you. Why would you put up with this?

 

Mr. Lucky

[Songbird4]

A better question is "WHY do some women stay with men who cheat - multiple times"?

 

Songbird4, there's a saying in the newspaper biz - once is bad luck, twice is coincidence but three times is a trend. And your husband's trend is not towards fidelity, commitment or transparency.

 

I don't know why he does what he does but am more curious about you. Why would you put up with this?

 

Mr. Lucky

 

We have 4 children together. That’s the main reason I stay. Also, financial stability. I’ve been a stay at home mom since our first child was born. Although I continued my education and work occasionally (I’m an entertainer: singer/dancer) and a degree in social and behavioral science, it’s not enough in order for me to pack my things and go. I’ve seen an attorney about my rights. I’d get very little alimony compared to what he makes.... I was pretty shocked when I looked into it. I sacraficed so many years while his career took off and now I’m the one starting from scratch.

[Jamess1]

Also, WHY do some men cheat? I know that’s a question with multiple answers but I just don’t understand because I’m not wired to do that... or allow myself to do that.

 

You are wired to cheat, but for a different reason men are. Women are hypergamous : you seek out a man better than you, the best man your level of 'attractiveness' can get you. This hypergamy is dual : when you were younger you sought out the best genes,hence the guys you dated in college, the ONS, the cheating bad boy you were trying to change in college, or the basketball captain who slept with all your friends and u included in High School.And when you got older, late 20s you started pursuing the 'beta' man, usually the polar opposite: security, provides,probably less sexual experiences than u...I ideally women want both in 1 man : the 'beta' and 'alpha' but that rarely happens : hence the wife who cheats with her boss, or the typical cheating wife after she gets promoted and starts going to gym to attract better.

 

You won't cheat because he is cheating, but u will if he becomes a hypergamously suboptimal option: e.g losses his job, becomes less dominant etc Actually the fact that other women want your man, and that he has other options than you; makes him even more attractive to you..

 

On the other hand men's sexual strategy is unlimited access to lots of sex. Men desire sexual plurality and variety : no man stops desiring other woman just because he is married, it's in every men's DNA : spread your genes as much as possible. with women it's select he best genes from the best man you can get, but the man with best genes might not be the best father:hence things like cuckoldry, paternity fraud, or women getting married after having 4 kids from 4 diff fathers..

[Turning point]

I can relate to where you find yourself.

 

I have 5 children and much like you I supported my spouses career while working form home myself. She turned out to be someone with a perpetual double life and a string of constant overlapping extramarital pursuits. I had the extra burden of being the higher earner and stakeholder in the home and household expenses too, which eventually became a financial trap for me.

 

It sounds like mentally for you there's not going to be a return of any kind of safety that would allow you to be happy with this man. I say safety, because that's really what I find the root of this pain to be - emotionally, romantically, financially and unfortunately physically.

 

You deserve to be safe and your children deserve a mom who's not under the stress of constant psychological threat. Just like an untreated virus this will grow and become more debilitating over time. I don't think we can live authentic and healthy lives while in constant stress and hyper-vigilance.

 

If you want to make a change, I would urge you to act sooner rather than later. Your husband's sense of entitlement may continue to grow and the longer you wait the more vicious his response to you leaving may be. People like this don't respond well to having their apple cart turned over. Shop around a bit for a good attorney because there are many who perform no better than a bank teller. You want someone who knows how to extricate you from this situation.

 

@Jamess1

We are not lab rats. A Paleoanthropological assessment of human sexuality may help him to cope with his own trauma but it's not useful to connected, caring, an empathetic people with adult coping skills.

Edited February 7, 2019 by Turning point

[BaileyB]

When you spoke with the attorney, did he tell you how much you can expect for child support. With four children, I imagine that you will get a fair amount of child support... Not enough to maintain your standard of living as a stay at home mother, but it would help help.

 

I’m sorry you find yourself in this situation. I know it’s definitely not what you visioned for your life, I’m just not sure how you can stay in such an unhappy situation... It is at least time to start planning an exit strategy, so that you are not so dependent this man. Your children will not be at home forever.

 

Perhaps that why he continues to do this, because he knows you are not going anywhere...

Edited February 7, 2019 by BaileyB

[BreakOnThrough]

I can’t heal and get over this because he’s proven he will continue to lie.

 

 

Plan an exit strategy, it's over, move on before the pain consumes you entirely.

[Songbird4]

You are wired to cheat, but for a different reason men are. Women are hypergamous : you seek out a man better than you, the best man your level of 'attractiveness' can get you. This hypergamy is dual : when you were younger you sought out the best genes,hence the guys you dated in college, the ONS, the cheating bad boy you were trying to change in college, or the basketball captain who slept with all your friends and u included in High School.And when you got older, late 20s you started pursuing the 'beta' man, usually the polar opposite: security, provides,probably less sexual experiences than u...I ideally women want both in 1 man : the 'beta' and 'alpha' but that rarely happens : hence the wife who cheats with her boss, or the typical cheating wife after she gets promoted and starts going to gym to attract better.

 

You won't cheat because he is cheating, but u will if he becomes a hypergamously suboptimal option: e.g losses his job, becomes less dominant etc Actually the fact that other women want your man, and that he has other options than you; makes him even more attractive to you..

 

On the other hand men's sexual strategy is unlimited access to lots of sex. Men desire sexual plurality and variety : no man stops desiring other woman just because he is married, it's in every men's DNA : spread your genes as much as possible. with women it's select he best genes from the best man you can get, but the man with best genes might not be the best father:hence things like cuckoldry, paternity fraud, or women getting married after having 4 kids from 4 diff fathers..

 

 

 

I totally understand what you mean but for me it’s not entirely true. For me, I was totally turned off by the jock... the most popular conceded guy or anyone that was deemed a “bad boy”. I was into cerebral stimulation. Can he make me laugh? Is he intelligent? I’ve adored my husband from the moment I saw him. I was well known at the place we worked at and he was new. He kept to himself mostly. It wasn’t until I got pregnant with out first child that things really changed.

 

If he wasn’t cheating I still wouldn’t cheat. I don’t want him more because someone else wants him. I want him the same as I’ve always wanted him. I was really in love with him... who I thought he was. Now I’m disgusted. I’m disappointed that he’s not the man I thought he was. I don’t disagree with you that some women will seek out a more alpha male. I was raised in an alpha male dominant household so it’s something I probably looked for without even realizing it. I wanted someone with ambition and he had it. He’s a fantastic father, meh husband.

[Songbird4]

It sounds like mentally for you there's not going to be a return of any kind of safety that would allow you to be happy with this man. I say safety, because that's really what I find the root of this pain to be - emotionally, romantically, financially and unfortunately physically.

 

You deserve to be safe and your children deserve a mom who's not under the stress of constant psychological threat. Just like an untreated virus this will grow and become more debilitating over time. I don't think we can live authentic and healthy lives while in constant stress and hyper-vigilance.

 

 

 

 

Safety is spot on. That’s exactly what I feel I was robbed of. He’s an attorney by the way so I’m at a disadvantage.

Edited February 9, 2019 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Songbird4]

When you spoke with the attorney, did he tell you how much you can expect for child support. With four children, I imagine that you will get a fair amount of child support... Not enough to maintain your standard of living as a stay at home mother, but it would help help.

 

I’m sorry you find yourself in this situation. I know it’s definitely not what you visioned for your life, I’m just not sure how you can stay in such an unhappy situation... It is at least time to start planning an exit strategy, so that you are not so dependent this man. Your children will not be at home forever.

 

Perhaps that why he continues to do this, because he knows you are not going anywhere...

 

 

The attorney told me I’d on receive a certain amount which was WAY lower than I expected. I left the office crying. Ugh not my strongest moment. Thank you and I agree I need to start preparing for what might be.

[The Dude Abides]

Songbird,

 

This is a terrible situation and I feel for you. Surely there must be more financial options with a potential divorce settlement? Surely the disparity in income must yield some decent amount of alimony and certainly the child support for four kids must be substantial? And what about the equity in the house that would be realized once the house is sold? And other property or accounts that would be divided?

 

Maybe the best thing for peace of mind is to seek a second opinion from another attorney?

[S2B]

We have 4 children together. That’s the main reason I stay. Also, financial stability. I’ve been a stay at home mom since our first child was born. Although I continued my education and work occasionally (I’m an entertainer: singer/dancer) and a degree in social and behavioral science, it’s not enough in order for me to pack my things and go. I’ve seen an attorney about my rights. I’d get very little alimony compared to what he makes.... I was pretty shocked when I looked into it. I sacraficed so many years while his career took off and now I’m the one starting from scratch.

 

Been there, done that.

 

Was with my exH 27 years. Wish I’d gotten out sooner.

 

4 kids means child support (at least until they are adults) on top of that spousal support.

 

Fill out the papers and be clear that you can’t support yourself and the kids unless he pays plenty to you.

 

Make sure you move money into your name only before he has a heads up that you plan to file.

 

The relationship with your kids will always go on - best to minimize contact with your husband after filing.

 

Why does he do it? Ego strokes, I secure, immature and self entitled.

 

My marriage and the sex was amazing too... but he just always wanted more - never happy with what he got...and could never say no when any woman paid attention to him.

 

He was a true narcissist. Almost 15 years since I left him - and he still regrets getting divorced - still in love with me even though he’s been married to someone else for ten years. He likes to be married he just doesn’t like being faithful. I am certain he’s cheated on his new wife multiple times - he’s so predictable. He starts jogging when he cheats and he travels more frequently - my kids mention things every now and then that just make me feel sorry for his newer wife... she is nice too.

 

He only knows how to think about himself... and how to get more. He’s very sick and selfish and self serving.

 

 

It was worth leaving him - even though I have less money now - I have my self respect and my peace of mind. After my kids were grown I got a super fun/cool job so now I do have enough all the time plus my support money!

Edited February 9, 2019 by S2B

[d0nnivain]

Do you know the woman in question? How do you know he told her that his marriage was "horrible"? Have you ever discussed with him what he thinks a good marriage looks like?

 

Early on in my marriage I did not like the way DH was interacting with a woman colleague from his company but who worked at a different branch on the opposite side of the country. While his behavior make me crazy, hers wasn't so bad. She went out of her way to make sure I knew there was nothing unprofessional about their interactions, She made a point to introduce me to her FI, who is now her husband.

 

Does he know you saw those messages? You say you have been in therapy for 3 years. So why are you posting now? What changed? I'm having trouble figuring out what brought this to a head now.

 

Law is a fairly social profession. Mentoring is encouraged. It's also stressful & depressing. Everybody in a lawyer's office has a problem. Nobody shows up there happy. You say he will continue to lie about things. What has he lied about? You don't say that you asked him to stop any behavior that continued after he promised to stop.

 

You mention trying to work through things early on but if you didn't do that with a professional counselor you may need to try that.

[Mrs._December]

The attorney told me I’d on receive a certain amount which was WAY lower than I expected. I left the office crying. Ugh not my strongest moment. Thank you and I agree I need to start preparing for what might be.

You're telling me that a woman basically unable to support herself due to staying home to raise 4 kids is entitled to just about zero alimony?

 

What about child support for 4 kids?T hat would be a sizeable figure, I would imagine. I highly doubt your cheating husband is father of the year and would want 50% custody of them just to avoid paying child support but he sounds sleazy enough to try it. I'm willing to bet he doesn't even know what grades all his kids are in, much less anything else about them. And I'm sure they'd cut into that busy dating schedule he'd likely have.

 

I hope to hell you gave a fake name to the lawyer you saw. I wouldn't put it past him/her to tell your husband about your visit.

 

I feel bad that you're basically stuck with this serial cheater. And his last affair was definitely PHYSICAL. Take that to the bank.

Edited February 9, 2019 by Mrs._December

[pepperbird]

op,

have you considered talking to an attorney in a different city that where you live? One who won't know your husband?

 

 

Also, ( and I am just throwing this out there) if you plan on staying with this man, I would suggest the following. You sit him down and have a talk to him. Put it all out on the table. It sounds like her is a serial cheater, and unless he's willing to put in a lot of work on himself, that isn't going to change. Until he does that, you won't be able to trust him.

 

 

To me, you have two choices. Accept him for what he is and accept that you will have an open marriage, at least in his mind. you will have to accept that he may well be sleeping around, and you will never know for sure what he's up to. I don't think I could do that, but some can.

 

 

The other alternative is to play dumb. Keep your head down and eyes up, getting your ducks in a row until you feel you are in a place where you can choose between staying or leaving, and leaving will be a viable alternative. Pretend you know nothing, and int he meantime, prepare yourself. That increases the chances of you being able to go forward on your terms, not desperation.

[BaileyB]

You're telling me that a woman basically unable to support herself due to staying home to raise 4 kids is entitled to just about zero alimony?

 

What about child support for 4 kids? That would be a sizeable figure, I would imagine.

 

I don’t exactly believe that either. Nor do I believe that she is basically unable to support herself financially if she has an education, assuming that OP is able to find a job and support herself with the money she would get from the division of assets, spousal support, and child support.

 

Women do it everyday... whether by choice, or because they have no other choice.

[elaine567]

op,

have you considered talking to an attorney in a different city that where you live? One who won't know your husband?

Very good point...

[BaileyB]

Very good point...

 

It is a good point.

 

I also wonder about expectations... without knowing what amount was discussed, is your expectation that you would be able to stay home and maintain your standard of living OP? Because, that may not be realistic... and it may be the reason why OP was sadly disappointed.

[FMW]

As Bailey said, divorce almost always lowers the standard of living for each partner. Two separate homes and all the related costs eat up a lot of money.

 

OP, you'll have to decide whether maintaining your lifestyle exactly as it is is more important than your emotional well-being.

[Songbird4]

You're telling me that a woman basically unable to support herself due to staying home to raise 4 kids is entitled to just about zero alimony?

 

What about child support for 4 kids?T hat would be a sizeable figure, I would imagine. I highly doubt your cheating husband is father of the year and would want 50% custody of them just to avoid paying child support but he sounds sleazy enough to try it. I'm willing to bet he doesn't even know what grades all his kids are in, much less anything else about them. And I'm sure they'd cut into that busy dating schedule he'd likely have.

 

I hope to hell you gave a fake name to the lawyer you saw. I wouldn't put it past him/her to tell your husband about your visit.

 

I feel bad that you're basically stuck with this serial cheater. And his last affair was definitely PHYSICAL. Take that to the bank.

 

 

Yeah I was pretty shocked when I looked into it. I’d definitely receive $$ just not nearly as much as I’d expect... but I only went to one person.

 

I do have to say, he’s a great father. Meh husband but great dad. He’s incredibly involved and always has been. Our parenting has always been equal. He coaches their sports teams, volunteers at their school... education is huge with him so he’s always working with them on homework, just like I do as well as both of us staying on top of their grades. He would absolutely want 50% custody and not because of the money. I can say that with certainty. He loves being their dad and spending time with them.

[Songbird4]

Do you know the woman in question? How do you know he told her that his marriage was "horrible"? Have you ever discussed with him what he thinks a good marriage looks like?

 

Early on in my marriage I did not like the way DH was interacting with a woman colleague from his company but who worked at a different branch on the opposite side of the country. While his behavior make me crazy, hers wasn't so bad. She went out of her way to make sure I knew there was nothing unprofessional about their interactions, She made a point to introduce me to her FI, who is now her husband.

 

Does he know you saw those messages? You say you have been in therapy for 3 years. So why are you posting now? What changed? I'm having trouble figuring out what brought this to a head now.

 

Law is a fairly social profession. Mentoring is encouraged. It's also stressful & depressing. Everybody in a lawyer's office has a problem. Nobody shows up there happy. You say he will continue to lie about things. What has he lied about? You don't say that you asked him to stop any behavior that continued after he promised to stop.

 

You mention trying to work through things early on but if you didn't do that with a professional counselor you may need to try that.

 

 

I did not know the woman who he was having the EA with. I found her number and called her. She spew venom and said some harsh things. He claims he never told her those things. It’s very possible she said things to me because she wanted to upset me more.

 

He knows I saw the messages. The moment I found the text he sat next to me and told me what was going on. He seemed very remorseful and for the first time in our marriage he agreed to go to counseling. Therapy has been helpful but I’m having difficulty moving on. I end up bringing up the past and opening up those wounds. If we get into a small argument it blows up even more because I’m taken back to our issues. I thought this would be therapeutic for me to type it all out and get feed back. And it has helped a little.

 

His work is very stressful and yes, very social. I don’t like how he interacts with some women in his office. I will see a text every now and then from women at his work and although the text msgs are innocent enough, I’m just not comfortable with it. He says he’ll stop but then months later I see another. Now, he doesn’t ever delete these text which He could easily do without me know .... ??*♀️

[Songbird4]

It is a good point.

 

I also wonder about expectations... without knowing what amount was discussed, is your expectation that you would be able to stay home and maintain your standard of living OP? Because, that may not be realistic... and it may be the reason why OP was sadly disappointed.

 

My expectations are reasonable... I don’t expect things to be the same. I would want as much normalcy as possible, for the kids sake and by that I mean it would be nice to stay in the same house OR close location to where we currently are so that the kids can feel comfortable at least in that way, with the transition that would happen.

[Songbird4]

I really appreciate all of your comments. Thank you.

 

We talked a lot today. I’m not sure what will happen in the near future but the positive out of all of this is that we are talking and agreeing to figure out what’s best for us and our family. He tells me he will do whatever is needed to prove to me that he is working on bettering himself so he can be the husband I deserve... but maybe I can’t get past certain things.

[Mr. Lucky]

I don’t like how he interacts with some women in his office. I will see a text every now and then from women at his work and although the text msgs are innocent enough, I’m just not comfortable with it. He says he’ll stop but then months later I see another. Now, he doesn’t ever delete these text which He could easily do without me know .... ??*♀️

 

If the texts are “innocent”, why are they so triggering for you?

 

Sounds like you’ve rugswept a lot of the marital issues to this point...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Turning point]

People can spend a lifetime "bettering themselves" but never really becoming a person worthy of staying with. My spouse simply tells people whatever it is they want to hear. So, if you want a better spouse: "I'll work with you on it." Trouble is, the work produces no change. It's just keeping you busy and distracted while they continue to be selfish.