Thoughts on The Best Option

[clusterf]

As every post starts out on here, this is my (summarized) story. I've caught my wife in multiple emotional affairs (confirmed). The last one was the worst as it was a mutual friend who I see quite often. The sense of humiliation and betrayal is just brutal on both sides.

 

Complications:

We have kids and our finances are terrible.

I won't disclose this to anybody because I don't want the kids to know at all. It's not an option in my mind to have them carry that baggage. I grew up in a family of secrets that got spilled on people's deathbeds or taken to the grave. She's an amazing mother who made a mistake - I don't want/need the kids to judge her too.

My wife has zero family (all died)

My wife was diagnosed with Complicated Grief (which can cause impulse issues)

My wife won't go to therapy (so far she won't)

 

My Debate:

Stay and try to work this out? Her resistance to therapy makes me concerned that WE won't get over it. I feel like I'm giving up before I start but I'm trying to be realistic.

Stay and just wait until finances are better and kids are older - Do I emotionally detach and just choose to live like roommates for a while?

Leave now (Seperate) - Do I make the determination that I just have to go and move into temporary housing?

Leave now (Divorce) - Just go and close the door for good?

[Marc878]

Multiple affairs? Resistance to therapy.

 

Terrific mother’s don’t blow up their familes.

 

You got every excuse under the sun. There aren’t any.

 

You Stay in this but you’ll need to accept she’ll continuously cheat.

 

That will be your life.

[Overtaxed]

First off, so sorry you find yourself here. I'm a BS/BH (betrayed spouse/betrayed husband) and there are a lot of us here who have been right where you are. You will get through it. It will hurt. But you will be OK.

 

Let me start with the hard stuff. Are you sure these are just EA's? It sounds like the OM (other man) is someone nearby, if so, it's very, very rare that it's not also physical. There's a saying "if they were along, they slept together" that almost always turns out to be true. So, first thing I would do, make sure you know what you're dealing with, especially if EA vs PA is going to change your mind on trying to reconcile. If nothing else, I'd operate as "it was probably a PA" as your making your decisions given what you've said so far.

 

Now, the next thing, your wife is NOT getting it at all. How long ago did you discover the last affair (d-day)? Often times it takes the wayward spouse a little while to get their heads out of their asses, but, you need to help your wife move this process along. Read up on the 180, a way to put space between you and your wife and hopefully get her to see what she's about to lose. That's the most effective way, in many cases, to get the WS to start to see the light.

 

What are your demands to stay in the marriage? Write them down, determine what you need and present it to your wife. Some suggestions, a written timeline of the affair(s), no contact with the affair partners ever again, allowing you to read her e-mail/txt's track her phone, etc.

 

What are her reasons? Why does she say she did it?

[Clay]

What reasons does she have to change. The reasons you think would already be there stopping her now mean nothing to her. At the very least its just not enough. She has had no real consequences for her actions. So why should she stop.

 

 

Its easy to sit here and tell you to go. Its really my first instinct on just what little you wrote but I am sure you going to need more to do that.

 

Sit her down and tell her she needs to come clean to the family and friends about her affairs. If the children learn of it then that is the way it needs to be. They don't need to hear all the details but she needs to be honest with people and not blame you for any of her cheating. If she gives the slightest excuse then you know this is not going to work out. If she refuses to do that then you need to go.

 

Counseling is not a choice for her. Its either she goes and gets help for this or you need to leave. The more you enable her to continue to make horrible decisions the more you will be at the end of her destruction and so will your children.

 

In my experience of being married to a serial cheater and being on these sites for years I have never heard or seen a serial cheater change. I think with that being said she has to be the one leading the fight to make herself a better person. If she wont then you need to do what is right for you and your children and that is get out and at least have one healthy parent for them to look to.

 

C

[clusterf]

Thanks to all of you have posted. I'm trying not to do anything too destructive but I'm really frustrated.

 

Someone asked about how long it has been? My discovery is out of sequence because I didn't suspect the mutual friend at all. Things seemed normal so that one took me by surprise. So the last one by activity was May of this year but I JUST found out that more than 2+ years ago the other activity with the mutual friend was happening. This was confirmed by talking with him.

 

I've been lurking for a while before posting and I knew I would get $hit about the statement that it's confirmed not physical. I say this based on the text messages that I've seen (and backed up) and her best friend confided in me some other details but was adamant that it was never physical BUT did reveal my SO was willing to but the AP (mutual friend) would not go there.

[DKT3]

The best way to proceed, in my opinion, is to start divorce proceedings. This will achieve several objectives that should be on your board. 1) this tells her just how serious this is 2) gives you information about her motivation and if she actually wants to make it work 3) forces you to start detecting from her.

 

Your wife is a repeat offender, that in itself shows she doesn't respect you or she doesn't believe you will do anything to change the situation. She is unwilling to work with you to improve your marriage.

 

There is no other option with the circumstances that you have described. Remember, divorce is a long process and can be stopped at any point should she show signs of improvement.

 

I don't think you are ready for that, or willing. Just remember, this isnt her first time, so what you are doing now isn't working.

[Mr. Lucky]

Complications:

We have kids and our finances are terrible.

I won't disclose this to anybody because I don't want the kids to know at all. It's not an option in my mind to have them carry that baggage. I grew up in a family of secrets that got spilled on people's deathbeds or taken to the grave. She's an amazing mother who made a mistake - I don't want/need the kids to judge her too.

My wife has zero family (all died)

My wife was diagnosed with Complicated Grief (which can cause impulse issues)

My wife won't go to therapy (so far she won't)

 

You should know that, if you stay, your tendency to rationalize and excuse her behavior will simply enable her to act out further. No consequences, no change...

 

Mr. Lucky

[aliveagain]

Thanks to all of you have posted. I'm trying not to do anything too destructive but I'm really frustrated.

 

Someone asked about how long it has been? My discovery is out of sequence because I didn't suspect the mutual friend at all. Things seemed normal so that one took me by surprise. So the last one by activity was May of this year but I JUST found out that more than 2+ years ago the other activity with the mutual friend was happening. This was confirmed by talking with him.

 

I've been lurking for a while before posting and I knew I would get $hit about the statement that it's confirmed not physical. I say this based on the text messages that I've seen (and backed up) and her best friend confided in me some other details but was adamant that it was never physical BUT did reveal my SO was willing to but the AP (mutual friend) would not go there.

 

This should tell you all you need to know. Why does she get to decide if counselling happens or not? Why is it not a requirement of staying married? Why did her best friend know about her affairs yet didn't inform you about them, they can't be friends anymore because she is not a friend of the marriage. It appears that you need to get rid of a lot of false friends, friends don't have affairs with your wife, friends don't withhold critical information.

 

Sweeping this under the rug will only make her better at hiding things from you. Her commitment to the marriage isn't the same as yours, she's looking for your replacement my friend. Talk to a lawyer, protect yourself, protect your children because they can't do so themselves. If she won't get help get rid of her because you will never feel safe with her. If she was willing to have sex with your so called mutual friend what makes you think someone who wasn't your friend wouldn't? This all ends when you say it does, doing nothing is the worst thing you can do. If she wants to cheat there is nothing you can do to stop her. If she won't get the help she needs to find out whats broken in her, you really don't have many options that work out well for you. Your children will always be your children. Give her your requirements for reconciliation, if she doesn't agree with them isn't it better you know now rather then wasting years of your on a lost cause?

[DKT3]

 

This all ends when you say it does, doing nothing is the worst thing you can do.

 

 

Simply yet powerful statement that so many who have thier lives touched by infidelity just dont seem to grasp.

[Overtaxed]

I've been lurking for a while before posting and I knew I would get $hit about the statement that it's confirmed not physical. I say this based on the text messages that I've seen (and backed up) and her best friend confided in me some other details but was adamant that it was never physical BUT did reveal my SO was willing to but the AP (mutual friend) would not go there.

 

I won't harp on it any further beyond this message, but, you'd be about the only guy in this history of affairs to get this story and find it to actually be true. Her friend is "her friend" and is likely "revealing" exactly what your WW wants you to hear/know. "Tell him I was willing but he wasn't, that sounds good". I hate to say it, I really do, but this is how cheaters operate. If you'd prefer not to keep digging, that's entirely your prerogative, or, if you want to excuse her even though she doesn't want to tell you, also, your prerogative. But if this matters to you, then, please, don't bury your head on it. Imagine yourself as the OM. Are you going to risk your marriage (and perhaps your life, depending on how mad the husband gets) for some lovey messages and a whole lot of emotional entanglement? I'm going to go out on a limb and say "probably not". And if your with a "willing woman" who you're already having an affair with, are you going to stop it? Again, I'm guessing, probably not. I deduced a lot of my W's AP's actions by thinking "what would I do" (if I were a complete POS chasing other people's wives) and, you know what? 90%+ of the time, I was right. It's pretty predictable how people act in affairs, which is why we can so quickly spot BS in stories.

 

Give her your requirements for reconciliation, if she doesn't agree with them isn't it better you know now rather then wasting years of your on a lost cause?

 

Very good advice. Don't waste your time trying to R with someone who doesn't want to R. Find out now and move on if that's the case.

[d0nnivain]

I've caught my wife in multiple emotional affairs (confirmed).

 

Complications:

 

My wife was diagnosed with Complicated Grief (which can cause impulse issues)

My wife won't go to therapy (so far she won't)

 

My Debate:

Stay and try to work this out? Her resistance to therapy makes me concerned that WE won't get over it. I feel like I'm giving up before I start but I'm trying to be realistic.

Stay and just wait until finances are better and kids are older - Do I emotionally detach and just choose to live like roommates for a while?

Leave now (Seperate) - Do I make the determination that I just have to go and move into temporary housing?

Leave now (Divorce) - Just go and close the door for good?

 

These were emotional affairs, not physical. I'm more inclined to try to work through an EA. Obviously the equation changes if it was a PA or you are not getting the whole truth.

 

You statements that she won't go for therapy but she has been diagnosed with a mental illness are contradictory. Who diagnosed her? Get that person on board with you two getting MC.

 

If your wife is talking to all these other people & seeking support from them she is clearly looking to address the hole left or caused by her Complicated Grief. I don't know what that is but what have you done to support her?

 

If divorce is your choice, you need to consult a lawyer sooner rather than later. Getting your finances in order will just complicate things. As long as you have the filing fee & small retainer you should be OK. Living like roommates is a bad plan. It won't work & you will both just be more miserable. It's also a lousy example for your kids.

[DKT3]

I dont think OP should be concerned with being her emotional backstop right now. The idea that his lack of support is why she continues to cheat is bogus. Especially since we have no idea what that has actually been.

 

OP listen, once affairs are outed both the WS and BS tend to want to get back what they had....in short they want to go back to when the BS didn't know, because what you had lead to an affair, or multiples. Time to change something, if you're unwilling to walk away then you have no other Avenue to jumpstart her need to change . It will be business as usual per you history. She will settle you down and in a few months be right back involved with another man.

[d0nnivain]

I dont think OP should be concerned with being her emotional backstop right now. The idea that his lack of support is why she continues to cheat is bogus. Especially since we have no idea what that has actually been.

 

See, that is where we differ. I don't believe that an EA is actually cheating. I am aware that it is detrimental to a marriage but IMO it is something that can be overcome -- if it was only emotional. Without more facts I am loathe to tell somebody to end his marriage.

 

Again, the OP stated that his wife has a mental health diagnosis. If that diagnosis contributes to her bad behavior that must be a factor in his thought process.

 

YMMV.

[clusterf]

 

Again, the OP stated that his wife has a mental health diagnosis. If that diagnosis contributes to her bad behavior that must be a factor in his thought process.

 

This absolutely is a factor in my decision making because she's also the mother of our children. Complicated Grief is what her therapist (which she started/stopped seeing) diagnosed her with because her entire family has died. She literally has no one to fall back to. The CG diagnosis is when a person is "stuck" in the grieving process. This can be tied to an actual wiring issue within the brain that causes joy from sorrow.

This doesn't excuse anything she's done - I know this. It just adds another complexity to our situation.

[d0nnivain]

She had a therapist at one point. See if you can get that person to recommend MC. Your wife may listen to the therapist.

[Simple Logic]

Your story makes me wonder why she stopped with emotional affairs. My beliefs are spouses have emotional affairs for escape. That escape could be for many different reasons that may not seem apparent. Your wife may be unable to tell you why either.

 

My opinion is your wife either believes you are incapable of leaving due to financial or child factors so she is not invested in a counciling solution. Tell her it is her full partipation in counciling or you are filing. Then file if she is not onboard.

[Turning point]

The two things that jumped out at me:

 

1.) Wife has no extended family, they have all died.

2.) OP insists the affairs are all emotional.

 

These two things are probably wrapped up like a pretzel. I think her not getting counseling is a even bigger red flag than the emotional infidelity.

 

Lifeguards know that not all people who are drowning can be saved - because in their distress they are more likely to pull you under with them. If she is self-destructive then the emotional infidelity is a side effect.

 

This one might not be all about infidelity itself. The Lifeguard has to make a call here - about whether to swim back to shore.

[clusterf]

This one might not be all about infidelity itself. The Lifeguard has to make a call here - about whether to swim back to shore.

 

This is pretty much why this is such an hard time for me. I truly think she's flawed further upstream but I'm caught between my love for her and my feelings. I describe the proverbial devil/angel on my shoulders. On one side; try to help her to get better for your kids and for herself while on the other side screw it and just focus on my needs.

[Orokotikki]

If the future spouse of one of your children had done as your wife has, what would you suggest they do?

[DKT3]

This is pretty much why this is such an hard time for me. I truly think she's flawed further upstream but I'm caught between my love for her and my feelings. I describe the proverbial devil/angel on my shoulders. On one side; try to help her to get better for your kids and for herself while on the other side screw it and just focus on my needs.

 

The ideas don't have to be exclusive. You can say screw being married to a woman who really has no desire to be faithful and still be there to help her be better for the children.

 

The thing is, I dont believe you truly understand. This is not a person who has your or the children's best interest at heart. I know its scary but I have been there, but you can't risk your sanity for the sake of your marriage, a marriage that she doesn't value.

 

She is fully aware of what she is and has done or else you would not be relying on other to help you piece it all together. Making excuses does you no good, she did what she did knowing full well it's wrong that's why she lies.

[40somethingGuy]

As every post starts out on here, this is my (summarized) story. I've caught my wife in multiple emotional affairs (confirmed). The last one was the worst as it was a mutual friend who I see quite often. The sense of humiliation and betrayal is just brutal on both sides.

 

Complications:

We have kids and our finances are terrible.

I won't disclose this to anybody because I don't want the kids to know at all. It's not an option in my mind to have them carry that baggage. I grew up in a family of secrets that got spilled on people's deathbeds or taken to the grave. She's an amazing mother who made a mistake - I don't want/need the kids to judge her too.

My wife has zero family (all died)

My wife was diagnosed with Complicated Grief (which can cause impulse issues)

My wife won't go to therapy (so far she won't)

 

My Debate:

Stay and try to work this out? Her resistance to therapy makes me concerned that WE won't get over it. I feel like I'm giving up before I start but I'm trying to be realistic.

Stay and just wait until finances are better and kids are older - Do I emotionally detach and just choose to live like roommates for a while?

Leave now (Seperate) - Do I make the determination that I just have to go and move into temporary housing?

Leave now (Divorce) - Just go and close the door for good?

 

One affair is NOT A MISTAKE. Forgetting to carry the 1 when adding 15 and 15 is. Multiple affairs is choosing to live a lie, double life all because of your own selfishness. There is no regard for the kids or spouse in multiple affairs. 'Amazing' parents don't make choices that could blow up a family because they think they won't get caught. I have no idea how you could look yourself in the mirror without realizing she is a cheat and always will be. No sane man would ever trust a multiple cheating spouse. Quit making excuses and start caring for yourself which includes demanding that the next someone will always have you and your best interests at heart. She won't go to therapy, you will tolerate it to protect her from the kids knowing, and the kids will grow up seeing parents not in love which means their future relationships will probably be in peril.

[40somethingGuy]

This absolutely is a factor in my decision making because she's also the mother of our children. Complicated Grief is what her therapist (which she started/stopped seeing) diagnosed her with because her entire family has died. She literally has no one to fall back to. The CG diagnosis is when a person is "stuck" in the grieving process. This can be tied to an actual wiring issue within the brain that causes joy from sorrow.

This doesn't excuse anything she's done - I know this. It just adds another complexity to our situation.

Therapists are in business to make money and provide reasons (often excuses) for intolerable behavior. She clearly is self destructive. Maybe you leaving will be the wake up call she needs. But from the info you provided, you are in for a long cycle of this behavior. Many spouses who are all that are left in their family do not throw away what they have namely their kids and spouse. Your protecting the kids, while admirable, will cause other unintended issues if you stay with her.

[Turning point]

This is pretty much why this is such an hard time for me. I truly think she's flawed further upstream but I'm caught between my love for her and my feelings. I describe the proverbial devil/angel on my shoulders. On one side; try to help her to get better for your kids and for herself while on the other side screw it and just focus on my needs.

 

What kind of counseling are you receiving? Given that she is diagnosed with Complex Grief - I think you should seek guidance yourself in how to come to terms with your own grief about the marriage, your children's best interest, and being stuck about the best course of action.

[Mr. Lucky]

See, that is where we differ. I don't believe that an EA is actually cheating. I am aware that it is detrimental to a marriage but IMO it is something that can be overcome -- if it was only emotional. Without more facts I am loathe to tell somebody to end his marriage.

 

Absent geographic separation and lack of opportunity, I wonder how often EA only affairs occur with someone nearby? These are adults, and I would think sexual variety is a main motivator, especially for men. With multiple AP’s, I’d be skeptical...

 

Mr. Lucky

[pepperbird]

This absolutely is a factor in my decision making because she's also the mother of our children. Complicated Grief is what her therapist (which she started/stopped seeing) diagnosed her with because her entire family has died. She literally has no one to fall back to. The CG diagnosis is when a person is "stuck" in the grieving process. This can be tied to an actual wiring issue within the brain that causes joy from sorrow.

This doesn't excuse anything she's done - I know this. It just adds another complexity to our situation.

 

 

As someone who has coped with a family member with mental illness, I can give you a bit of advice ( it has nothing to do with her affair(s)...that's for later ).

 

 

In my experience, mental illness can make a person really selfish. It's usually not intentional, it's just as if the person is so wrapped up in their own issue they can see anyone elses.

 

 

You don't get that luxury when you're a parent. I don't care how much it hurts her, how much she doesn't want to or how much facing her issues is going to sap her strength, she needs to get help. I'll disabuse you of the idea it won't impact your kids. It does.

 

 

Just my opinion, but you need to sit her down and tell her that getting into therapy is not negotiable. It's not a question of if she wants to. That ship has sailed. Once she is in therapy and getting that support, then you bring up her cheating. That is an important issue that needs to be addressed, but until she gets a bit more "self aware", there's not much point in talking to her about it. She'll just make excuses, and it will be like talking to a brick wall.

 

 

 

If she continues to refuse to get counseling or other mental health help, well, that's sad, but it's her choice. It also tell you her priorities. She's too caught up in herself to see the bigger picture. If this is the case my advice to you is to visit a lawyer and discuss your situation. Find out about your rights and responsibilities and learn where you stand. I would also suggest finding a support group for family members of people with mental illness. It can make a big difference and give you some support that you need to get through everything you're going through. You have feeling too, and they matter just as much as hers do. She's got no right trampling all over them.