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False Reconciliation


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It’s 3 months since the D-day. My wife had an affair with her boss, they still work in the same company (different floors and supposedly not seeing each other) and my wife is actively looking for another job. I update with the OM’s wife occasionally and yesterday she told me that my wife asked her husband for reference (her husband told her). So I confronted my wife and she denied at first but then admitted after I told her I got evidence, that she asked him after an online meeting when everyone else had left. Every effort I put in the reconciliation just fell down like that. She kept arguing that it’s not a big deal but then why she hid it and lied to me when I asked. I told her earlier, and she promised, whatever happen b/w her and him she needs to tell me immediately, otherwise it would be much worse if I figure out myself. She failed that promise and keeps lying to me. Now of course what I know is probably just the tip of the iceberg.

 

I guess like people say cheaters lie a lot and I only have myself to blame because I fell into reconciliation too fast while she’s not 100% remorseful (there were signs of remorse to be fair). Throughout the reconciliation, I just felt unhappy and unsatisfied. She always had some arguments for whatever I asked, and she became quite good at it which surprised me, a lot of time I could only find counter argument in the next day. She argued and blamed me for always wanting to put “punishment” on her, that the consequences I think she deserves are not something she deserves but what I want her to be punished with, and that I should let her work on it at her own pace. I guess that is somewhat “gas lighting”. The fact that we had a bad counselor didn’t help either, but she was the only one available that we can find in our area (what a world we are living now!). I read from another source that “R is not possible without an extremely remorseful spouse that is willing to bend over backwards, forwards, sideways, and upside down for you. If they don't take 500% responsibility for their actions, they are not ready to R”. That’s exactly what I wanted but not what my wife set her mind to from start!

 

The last 3 months were terrible! There were hysterical bonding but at the same time a lot of mind movies, being upset, being stuck and not knowing how to get out. I’m now totally exhausted. To be honest I still care about her a bit but at the same time I know exactly where I throw myself into if I fall for false R again. I’m still struggling with not seeing my daughter, she turned 2 a few days ago. Most of my R effort is because of her. I read from the book “Not just friend” saying that it’s ok to stay just because of the children for now, as long as there’s enough effort we could fall in love again. I did want to give my wife a chance and she threw that chance away. Now looking back, I know I made a mistake in the reconciliation process. However, I remember reading a thread at TAM from a guy, lascarx, who, based on his writing, was very determined and strong. But deep down from what he wrote I know he still loves his wife a lot. In fact he gave her a chance later only to terminated after 2nd D-day. So I forgive myself, everyone can make a mistake, and it’s not easy to make decision when you are in the mess, especially if you still love your spouse somewhat.

 

Anyway, I guess I just try to find a place to confide. Some of you might come to blame me, or to say things such that yeah, surely they still f*cking at work. I don’t care about that now, I’m just tired and I’ll take some good sleep and I'll wake up stronger tomorrow.

 

Btw in case some of you don't know, I read the book "Not just friend" and it's so spot on, I can't even describe how many "wow" moment I got while reading it.

Edited by csad
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I don't think the problem here is with your wife asking him for a reference and keeping this from you, but rather it's with you checking in occasionally with the OM W. What's that all about?

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elaine567

I am confused if you are in reconciliation, why are you not seeing your daughter?

Have you moved out or did your wife move out?

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Reconciliation is a really difficult process and it can't be one sided.

 

Both people have to be in 100%. I feel for you.

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harrybrown

What are you going to do now?

 

are you going to file for D? Or continue your one-sided efforts at R?

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Friskyone4u
I don't think the problem here is with your wife asking him for a reference and keeping this from you, but rather it's with you checking in occasionally with the OM W. What's that all about?

 

CSAD

 

I hope you ignore this completely. You know one of the reason you tell OBS is to have two sets of eyes on them, ESPECIALLY if they still work together. How idiotic to blame you, the BH.

 

If you think you have just the tip of the iceberg, there is one quick way to find out. POLYGRAPH. You will get your answer in about 1 hour or less as to whether what you discovered was all there is. It seems that OM told his wife voluntarily. He seems to be more in to R and a better candidate than your wife.

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wmacbride

My best advice for you, hard as it may be, is to give yourself some time and space to really think about what you want to do. Take the pressure off yourself.

 

I would also suggest that, since your wife was not willing ( or able) to keep up with her side of reconciliation, and she was willing to pick and choose the information she feels you need to have, you can't trust her right now. I'm not saying she's purposely being deceitful ( maybe she is or isn't, I don't know) but she is showing she

(a) doesn't understand what she's done to you

(b) doesn't understand your need for complete honesty

© has a lot of "grey areas" when it comes to cheating, and will use those areas to rationalize her behavior

(d)needs to be constantly monitored ( at least right now) to "stay on the path"

 

Personally, if after three months, she still doesn't understand the depth of what she did or how to be honest with you, I wonder if she ever will.

 

In your shoes, I would be doing the 360, but I would sit her down first and explain to her why you are doing what you are doing. Make no promises to her, and use that time to figure out what you want, and also what you feel she is/is not capable of bringing to the table. Some people don't have the tools to reconcile, and I think she's one of them. That doesn't make her a terrible person, but it may mean you are not well matched.

 

( and whatever else you do, make sure to see your child)

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R is a gift that should not be given lightly or it will mean very little as you've found.

 

If they work together the affair continues. From your posts you aren't in R and never were. That's probably why.

 

You are trying to carry a large gorilla and drag a piano. You were set up to fail from day one but no one could tell you. Perhaps you're wiser now. Time will tell.

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I've been there man. Over time it does get better regardless of whether you decide to divorce or whether you keep trying to get your wife to behave.

 

Journaling helped me the most when I was there. Heck I needed to do it anyway in case I divorced. Drinking hurt my healing the most. Delayed the healing for a long time.

 

Wishing you strength brother!

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jenkins95

Hey csad

 

I'm so sorry to read about your pain and what you are going through. I am a former cheater (now reformed), and you therefore may not be interested in my opinion, but for what it's worth: -

 

Speaking purely about her asking him for a reference (I am not yet familiar with your full story), I honestly don't think it needs to be a deal breaker. It was a work meeting so she didn't voluntarily meet with him and it was online, so they weren't together in person, right? Also, lots of other colleagues were present, which means they had no time alone (except for the reference thing). She wants to leave the place (good) and for that she needs a reference. Asking for a reference is not something done in front of others, so it seems she simply waited until the other callers had gone before requesting it. Another positive - by asking him for a reference, she's making her intentions very clear to him - she wants out and away from him.

 

Obviously, any contact at all with him is sickening, but I think this particular contact is about as positive as it could possibly be. Yes, it's a big slip up not to tell you every exact detail of this contact, but perhaps she was simply scared. I know from experience that cheaters can be cowards (I was). She knew that mentioning it could lead to a very uncomfortable evening, so she made the bad choice not to. Bad move or her part, but does it need to be a deal breaker? It seems like her intentions are otherwise completely on track (again I'm only going from this incident).

 

As for the other issues that you mention in reconciliation, well that's another thing. As a former cheater myself, I do understand the humiliation and defenselessness that she may be feeling in being exposed. I felt it too. We often try to talk our way around it and make excuses instead of sucking it up like we should do. For me, it took about 3 months of R before I really started getting my head out of my a** and fully taking on board the full scale of the damage I'd done and the hurt I'd caused and that my own pain and humiliation was like a drop in the ocean compared to my BS's hurt. Prior to that my behaviour was apologetic and humble but with a lot of resistance, "explanations" and a lot of "buts", which sounds a bit like your W. If you really want it to work, give her a little more time. I was given this chance and I've grabbed it with both hands.

 

Whatever, good luck. No one deserves the cr*p that has landed at your front door.

Edited by jenkins95
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Nirbhao.Nirvair

I mean no offence brother, but calling your wife remorseful is an insult to all the FWS here who are truly remorseful.

 

 

I think you have confused remorse for regret. Remorse is about being empathetic to the victim's pain and having a concern for the victim's feelings. Regret is about feeling sorry for yourself for the choices that you made that led to your failure.

 

 

Your wife is in regret for being "tricked" by the OM. A remorseful person does not think that their actions to set right the pain that they've caused to their victims as punishment. Your wife thinks of herself as the victim and hence lashes out at you for your expectations of her.

 

 

I asked this to you the last time and yet you did not answer. Why does your wife wants to reconcile if she thinks that, by her own admission, she married you only because she wanted a stable life. Now that is another way of saying marrying you was a mistake. Now that the OM isn't the lover she hoped to find, she is settling for the lesser mistake, which is you. Is it not? Did you ask her about this?

 

 

Is she staying only for the kid? If so why wasn't your kid's well-being a concern for her when she decided to leave you earlier? And are you staying only for the kid?

 

 

Unless your wife sees the destruction she has caused, instead of being seeing herself as the victim, she will see no wrong in whatever she has done. You are going to be burnt very badly in days to come.

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Nirbhao.Nirvair

The fact that we had a bad counselor

 

 

You should have known that when she said your wife can still work at the same place as OM.

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Cephalopod

You are not in R and never have been . You cannot unilaterally save a marriage. Both partners must be all in.

 

Your WW is doing the bare minimum of what she needs to do. She is only doing enough to make sure you don't leave.

 

We teach people how to treat us, and you have taught her that she can steamroll you, cheat on you, lie to you, refuse to quit her job, and you will do nothing. Why should she change? Why should she do anything?

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What are you going to do now?

 

are you going to file for D? Or continue your one-sided efforts at R?

 

This to me is the 64k question. Personally I think OP should just divorce her. The reasons for thinking this way is not because she deserves it; its because he deserves better. He deserves to go out and build a new healthy life instead of staying with someone that can't be helped or fixed.

 

I would just file and have her served as soon as possible. I would not entertain any kind of talks unless it solely had to do with the divorce and division of assets and if there is children involved there needs as well. Her days of abusing me and using me would be over with.

 

Just my two cents

 

C

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BetrayedH

I've been where you are, my friend. My wife tried to half-ass our reconciliation, would hide "professional" contact with the OM from me, blah, blah, blah. I don't blame myself for making the attempt (and I don't think you should either) but it didn't work.

 

Do the 180 and file for divorce. Divorces take a while. If she convinces you of her true remorse in the interim enough that you feel that you might be able to forgive, you can always pause the proceedings. I learned the hard way that the soft approach doesn't work. This approach may not work either, but at least at that point you'll be on the way to the divorce you need.

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wmacbride
Hey csad

 

I'm so sorry to read about your pain and what you are going through. I am a former cheater (now reformed), and you therefore may not be interested in my opinion, but for what it's worth: -

 

Speaking purely about her asking him for a reference (I am not yet familiar with your full story), I honestly don't think it needs to be a deal breaker. It was a work meeting so she didn't voluntarily meet with him and it was online, so they weren't together in person, right? Also, lots of other colleagues were present, which means they had no time alone (except for the reference thing). She wants to leave the place (good) and for that she needs a reference. Asking for a reference is not something done in front of others, so it seems she simply waited until the other callers had gone before requesting it. Another positive - by asking him for a reference, she's making her intentions very clear to him - she wants out and away from him.

 

Obviously, any contact at all with him is sickening, but I think this particular contact is about as positive as it could possibly be. Yes, it's a big slip up not to tell you every exact detail of this contact, but perhaps she was simply scared. I know from experience that cheaters can be cowards (I was). She knew that mentioning it could lead to a very uncomfortable evening, so she made the bad choice not to. Bad move or her part, but does it need to be a deal breaker? It seems like her intentions are otherwise completely on track (again I'm only going from this incident).

 

As for the other issues that you mention in reconciliation, well that's another thing. As a former cheater myself, I do understand the humiliation and defenselessness that she may be feeling in being exposed. I felt it too. We often try to talk our way around it and make excuses instead of sucking it up like we should do. For me, it took about 3 months of R before I really started getting my head out of my a** and fully taking on board the full scale of the damage I'd done and the hurt I'd caused and that my own pain and humiliation was like a drop in the ocean compared to my BS's hurt. Prior to that my behaviour was apologetic and humble but with a lot of resistance, "explanations" and a lot of "buts", which sounds a bit like your W. If you really want it to work, give her a little more time. I was given this chance and I've grabbed it with both hands.

 

Whatever, good luck. No one deserves the cr*p that has landed at your front door.

 

Jenkins95,

I think the world of you, but this response is "cheater think" ( not that I am saying that's how your mind operates).

 

I can't speak for the op, but in his shoes, it would be the lying by omission that was the bigger deal that having the om act as a reference. Would it have been different if she had come to him, explained the situation and asked the op how he felt about her using her ex-om as a reference?

 

Sure , that might have been a difficult discussion ( and a hurtful one too) but it would have been far better than the tickle turning she did. She lied ( even if just by omission) about contact with her ex-om. If she will lie about the small things, how can he trust her about the big things, especially at a time like this when telling the truth is so important.

 

She had an opportunity to add a piece to the trust she is trying to rebuild. Rather than take it, she made a different choice.

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wmacbride
The fact that we had a bad counselor

 

 

You should have known that when she said your wife can still work at the same place as OM.

 

Although I would never recommend it, a ws can work with their former ow/om, but it's usually not a great idea.

 

Mind you, if a ws can't keep him or herself from picking up the A where it left off just because they are working together, then it doesn't bode well for the marriage.

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I don't think the problem here is with your wife asking him for a reference and keeping this from you, but rather it's with you checking in occasionally with the OM W. What's that all about?

I guess it's partly paranoid, but the main reason is that OM resigned from the 1st day but since he's an executive the company asked him to stay until April so that they can find a replacement, and now he's still there, so I occasionally check with OMW for his last date. The last information I know is that they now refuse his resignation and he has no intention to leave until August! We do share our marriage progress also. OMW and I are coincidently from the same country (the OM is not).

 

I am confused if you are in reconciliation, why are you not seeing your daughter?

Have you moved out or did your wife move out?

To be clear I still see my daughter but not every day. I'm just not ready to not seeing her every day. My wife moved out 2 days ago.

 

What are you going to do now?

 

are you going to file for D? Or continue your one-sided efforts at R?

I will file for D but I won't rush it. Definitely not considering R for now. I'll take the time to focus on myself.

 

CSAD

If you think you have just the tip of the iceberg, there is one quick way to find out. POLYGRAPH. You will get your answer in about 1 hour or less as to whether what you discovered was all there is. It seems that OM told his wife voluntarily. He seems to be more in to R and a better candidate than your wife.

Funny I asked her to do Polygraph at first but she strongly disagreed. She argued it's not reliable and we can't conclude anything from the output. One example of me could not find a better argument.

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Mrs. John Adams

If she was asking her boss...lover....for a referel...could it be she is actually looking for a new job?

 

Has she read the book How the help your spouse heal from your affair by linda macdonald?

 

Trust me...your wife is NOT remorseful...and probably wont be for a very long time. Remorse comes after you stop thinking about yourself and start thinking about the pain you have caused your spouse. Regret...sorrow...yes. But Remorse is much more difficult to achieve....and some never get there.

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aliveagain

Lying by omission, lying when confronted, being defensive when discussing her affair with you are not the acts of a remorseful spouse. Continuing to work with her affair partner is almost a guarantee of failure. Decide which is more important to you her job or your marriage then act on it. You are doing all the work, she's doing just enough to keep you in place until she gets what she wants. Your first action should be to implement the consequence for breaking the boundaries when you agreed to reconciliation(it is important you follow through or none of the boundary's will mean anything to her). Talk to a lawyer, understand your rights, she needs to take you seriously. It is pretty obvious that she is doing the minimum to keep you engaged in the marriage.

 

Marriages that include partners that are not equally committed rarely work out. Stop doing her work for her, she needs to know what life without you will be like. Do not rug sweep this, the onus is on her to fix this to your satisfaction. Decide if she is worth a third chance.

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jenkins95
Jenkins95,

I think the world of you.

 

wmac! You made my day! (((blush))) - and you know it's mutual ;)

 

this response is "cheater think" ( not that I am saying that's how your mind operates).

 

Thanks for the bit in parentheses wmac, but the fact is that my mind DID operate like this, and I suspect that occassionally this still comes through in my posts - like it clearly has here. Also, following my own experience, I'm just so keen to see cases of successful reconciliation that I will always look for the positives (from the point of view of R). In this case, the posts show that I am massively outnumbered and I accept that I am displaying wild optimism mixed in with a bit of (former) "cheater think".

 

Everything you (and most of the other posters) say makes sense and makes my response look a little silly! Apologies if it caused offense OP.

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wmacbride
wmac! You made my day! (((blush))) - and you know it's mutual ;)

 

 

 

Thanks for the bit in parentheses wmac, but the fact is that my mind DID operate like this, and I suspect that occassionally this still comes through in my posts - like it clearly has here. Also, following my own experience, I'm just so keen to see cases of successful reconciliation that I will always look for the positives (from the point of view of R). In this case, the posts show that I am massively outnumbered and I accept that I am displaying wild optimism mixed in with a bit of (former) "cheater think".

 

Everything you (and most of the other posters) say makes sense and makes my response look a little silly! Apologies if it caused offense OP.

 

No need to apologize at all. It's a discussion forum, and you were sharing your thoughts. It's good that you did, as it puts different viewpoints out there, and people talk about them.

 

You are right about reconciling. If it was up to me, everyone who wanted to would be able to do it successfully. I remember your early posts, and even from the start, though you were mixed up, you understand what you had done. I don't get that same sense from the op about his ww.

 

I'm not saying the op and his spouse are doomed to fail, but based on what he wrote, I don't think his ww understands his needs right now at all, and she has very fuzzy boundaries. Until that changes, even if she is 100 percent faithful form this point on, it may well be hard for him to ever trust her.

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wmac! You made my day! (((blush))) - and you know it's mutual ;)

 

 

 

Thanks for the bit in parentheses wmac, but the fact is that my mind DID operate like this, and I suspect that occassionally this still comes through in my posts - like it clearly has here. Also, following my own experience, I'm just so keen to see cases of successful reconciliation that I will always look for the positives (from the point of view of R). In this case, the posts show that I am massively outnumbered and I accept that I am displaying wild optimism mixed in with a bit of (former) "cheater think".

 

Everything you (and most of the other posters) say makes sense and makes my response look a little silly! Apologies if it caused offense OP.

 

No offense from me either. You're right in a way too. As a BH myself in that first six months I had all sorts of wild thoughts plaguing me, including a brief fantasy of a revenge affair with one of the other bw. I dismissed it as a random thought but looking back now, I was in so much pain that if it had been proposed I don't know that I'd have turned it down.

 

That doesn't mean that this op here shouldn't maintain contact for the SOLE purpose of sharing information. He definitely should. But he should also be wary if that is a weak point in his armor.

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jenkins95
No need to apologize at all. It's a discussion forum, and you were sharing your thoughts. It's good that you did, as it puts different viewpoints out there, and people talk about them.

 

You are right about reconciling. If it was up to me, everyone who wanted to would be able to do it successfully. I remember your early posts, and even from the start, though you were mixed up, you understand what you had done. I don't get that same sense from the op about his ww.

 

I'm not saying the op and his spouse are doomed to fail, but based on what he wrote, I don't think his ww understands his needs right now at all, and she has very fuzzy boundaries. Until that changes, even if she is 100 percent faithful form this point on, it may well be hard for him to ever trust her.

 

Very wise words again wmac.

 

I realise that I was exceptionally lucky that my wife had the patience to tolerate me being all over the place for the first few months of R (excpetionally lucky to have even been given a chance at R in the first place). I am ashamed to admit that I felt as sorry for myself as I did for her in the first months and my (genuine) remorse, guilt and humility was watered down to some extent with explanations (I wouldn't go as far as to call it justifications) and "ifs and buts". I also used the pathetic weapon of crying in front of her - maybe if she sees that I'm hurt too, she'll go easy on me, right? (rolls eyes).

 

I really got myself on track at around 3 months, which is just about where the OP is now. I'm just saying that it can take a while for the wayward to really get their head together. They are only human and they are in a mess too, albeit 100% self-inflicted. I'm not saying they deserve sympathy, but just that thjis needs recognising - none of us are robots. Just worth bearing this in mind if he still loves her and has any hope at all for R. But she really needs to buck up very quickly as his patience will wear out soon if it hasn't already. She needs to know that not giving 100% to reconciliation just adds to his misery.

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Hey csad

 

I'm so sorry to read about your pain and what you are going through. I am a former cheater (now reformed), and you therefore may not be interested in my opinion, but for what it's worth: -

 

Jenkins, I am glad to get a response from a different perspective. In fact being scared of me was the exact reason she gave. I was upset by her decision to ask OM for reference without discussing with me first, but even more upset that she hid it and lied to me when I first confronted. That collapses every bit of trust I may have in her, which is not much to start with. And I warned her before and she agreed. I even told her that even if she had some fond feeling of the OM, it's fine and I totally understand it, we are human and we can't just say that we stop the feeling and then we can stop.

 

In the end, there's no standard written in stone about what WS has to behave for R like 1 needs to add 2 to be 3. We just know deep inside that's what it have to take. We had many arguments about what she has to do and she deserves it if it's not something she wants, and like I said, I just can't argue with her, I just feel unsatisfied and unhappy. May be it's just me but my expectation from start is that she fights for our marriage. That's not in her mind apparently and keep arguing that she has a choice (to stay or leave) too. Again she's right here and I can't argue but it seems to me it's not the right attitude towrd R. She now becomes too good at giving promise for the far future that she told me even if we get a divorce she won't find any other man but just be a single mom instead. Not that I care but just to say how surprised I am with her words, which if you read my 1st thread, for a while I thought she's totally naive and innocent.

 

To be clear I still see my daughter but I'm not used to not seeing her every day. I guess we all have to adapt. My wife moved out two days ago. I keep contact with OMW just for status update, mostly regarding his last day at work. Now it turns out that the company reject his resignation and he has no intention to find another job for now! And also the fact OMW and I are from the same country makes it easier to communicate. And she's 10 years older than me and I have no intention for a revenge affair.

 

I am working on divorce but I won't rush it even though I am much more determined now. I just want to focus on myself, think it though, get busy, get ready. I plan to move closer to my work when it gets stable and start doing some investing. First one would be investing in a house for my daughter 15 years from now. I won't rule out a 3rd chance but she needs to give a lot more. And thanks for some advice I am not a drinker and I live a pretty healthy life.

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