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" I will NEVER cheat again." FWS's??


TrustedthenBusted

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TrustedthenBusted

As a follow up to the semi-annual "trust" conversation that I have to have with my FWW, I am curious as to how FWS's might react to the following:

 

My wife has said countless times that she would NEVER let herself get caught up in an affair ever again. She says that even the thought of it turns her stomach, and that she only even thinks about what she did when the subject comes up, and it makes her feel physically ill to think about him, or what they did.

 

( Now granted, I have pretty good proof that their physical relationship was not all that great, and was actually pretty strained and uncomfortable. This is part of what has made forgiveness a little easier for me. )

 

Anyway, when she says this, the best thing I can force myself to relay to her in that moment, is something along the lines of, " I believe that YOU believe that."

 

 

My thinking is that NOBODY wants to cheat, or admit they are susceptible to an affair, least of all someone who already got caught in one. But, it seems pretty easy to say how you will react when some guy at the company sales kickoff starts flirting after your fourth gin and tonic. But this is what I imagine all FWW's said before getting into affair in the first place, right?

 

The reality is that WHEN that sales kickoff takes place and WHEN that attractive girl spends way more time shaking your hand than is necessary...THAT'S when your feelings and actions really matter. And not before.

 

It's like I know that my wife is trying to comfort me when she says she'd never do this again, and I'm sure that as she is saying it, she really does have a visceral reaction to the thoughts about the past....but I still can't accept the idea of "never."

 

So my 2-part question to FWWs is: Do you really expect your BS to ever go back to 100% trust and confidence in your ability not to hurt them again?

 

And if not, can you content yourself with like 90%?

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Mrs. John Adams

I think my john trusts me 99%....i think there will forever be a tiny piece of him that says it happened once and you caught me totally off guard....and i deserve that he keeps that 1% in his mind.

 

I told John 32 years ago...that i would never do it again....i meant it then...i mean it now. I honestly would take my life before i allowed myself to ever break his heart and destroy him again.

 

I realize that sounds horrible...and i don't mean it as a dramatic effect...i mean it.

 

I would never want to live through The agony of what we have been through again.

 

I am also wiser...i am extremely careful about my boundaries. I know that i was naive and stupid before.....so I make sure that i keep myself in check. I also include John in that process. I keep no secrets. IF someone flirts with me...i tell john....if someone crosses a line...i tell john.

 

Not only does it make me feel safer...i think it makes him feel more secure in knowing that i don't keep anything from him.

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What Mrs. JA said. Building trust means telling the other spouse uncomfortable things. What many WS don't get is that this BUILDS trust.

 

to answer your questions:

I don't expect my husband to trust me 100%.

I am good with 90%.

 

the thing is, this impacts HIM more than me. The fact that he maybe sometimes worries about what I'm up to makes his life less. And I do NOT want that for him. So, I am working my butt off being transparent and honest. After years, it gets better... but it will never be 100%. And I feel badly that that is his reality.

And it is mine as well.

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Mrs. John Adams

I want to add something here to what i said.

 

It is my job...and I gladly accept it...to make my betrayed husband feel comfortable and loved.....but it is also important that he makes me feel comfortable and loved.

 

What I mean by that is...we both make sure that we never take each other for granted.

 

If we are both secure in knowing that we both appreciate each other and we both make an effort to show each other that we think we are worth the effort...it brings us even closer together.

 

I never take for granted the second chance i have been given...and i want him to know that i am grateful.

 

But I also want him to know that i think he is worth everything i do for him to make him feel more secure as well.

 

I guess the bottom line is...our relationship is the most important thing in the world....and we almost lost it. We will do everything in our power to never allow that to happen again.

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MuddyFootprints

I've said it before. I'd be more trusting of him if he admitted even a fraction of a percent of doubt.

 

I trust me 100%. I don't have it in me anymore. It's not who I am.

 

I just don't understand how he trusts me 100%. I doubt him more than he claims to doubt me.

 

In fact, he'd prefer that I let down my boundaries and move on.

 

As ironic as it is, that's how trust is working around here. And, yes, I have a very difficult time trying to wrap my pea-brain around that.

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A cup is broken

All the pieces are found and the cup is glued back together

The cup does not leak

There are no rough edges on the rim

The handle feels secure

The cup functions as it did before

 

 

Though doubts linger

Will the cup develop a leak

Will the glue not hold the handle and the cup drops

Will damage be noticed for the glue holds though does not hide crack lines

 

 

This is what happens to the trust. The WW broke it. She can repair it though like the cup the cracks/damage will always be there.

 

 

Many BH's have said that trust has been restored to 99% though with time the doubts will lessen though never fully. There will always be that 1% causing them to worry and keep their ears and eyes open to nip any back sliding before more damage is done.

 

 

After all many BH's after D day and come to these forums and learn that many WW's claimed to say they ended the affair only to give their BH multiple D days afterwards, and many others that restarted the old affair years later or had another OM

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You will never have 100% trust, and to apologize to Mrs j Adams, there will also be a chance that one could pass into a affair. The trick is to keep to your boundaries. If you are married, act married, do not flirt, shut it down when it looks like it may lead to something. Too many friends and people here, get caught up in the moment, and say to themselves, this is fun, I will let it go until, it get "physical, or right to the edge.

 

I am sure your wife, is more on guard to this happening, as are you. Trust, in life should never be 100%, as we are all human and things can and will happen. In my wife case, there were many factors, that lead to her cheating, just as there were many factors leading to her over spending. They all come down to one thing in the end, she wanted to have sex, and there was a willing guy there to provide it, and she did not say no. Could this happen again, yes, but it is not likely that a set of circumstances would a line to make it happen. I think there a two types of WS, one is the cold calculating one, who just goes out of their way to cheat. The other is one who does get involved, but may not have, if they had not been at a certain place or met a certain person, and be in a frame of mind to cheat. Take away any of these and no cheating. It is this WS, that has a good chance of never cheating again, but they need to recognize when the "stars" are coming together and break the chain.

 

To the FWW, I think having this happened will tend to make them more aware, and more on guard. This assumes, they are and trying to make admins and live their VOWS. The old saying, "once a cheater, always a cheater" may not be workable to the truly reformed, but with this experience, come the knowledge that they did cross a line. So trust will never be 100%.

 

My two cents

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I think everyone is different in how they try to glue back together what was missing (Affair) wise. I'm different in the sense that I would never forgive my wife and no matter what I would leave her. I think she knows this. Plus I think if she was ever to have an affair she will be smart enough never to tell me. She has given me 2 beautiful kids and it would be hard to separate from them and break my home. But I rather leave them then make there lives miserable when they see the anger i have towards there mother. I give props to you and all the people that try to work on there marriege after the betrayal. It takes alot of courage to forgive. But some of us are unforgiving.....and I'm one those.

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Sorry to jump in as a BH and not a FWW.

 

After so many years of gut wrenching worry about a relapse, and seeking reassurances - it drained me.

 

I kind have the response now "meh - don't care if you do cheat again - but I will know if you do and things will change quick then".

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Mrs. John Adams
I think everyone is different in how they try to glue back together what was missing (Affair) wise. I'm different in the sense that I would never forgive my wife and no matter what I would leave her. I think she knows this. Plus I think if she was ever to have an affair she will be smart enough never to tell me. She has given me 2 beautiful kids and it would be hard to separate from them and break my home. But I rather leave them then make there lives miserable when they see the anger i have towards there mother. I give props to you and all the people that try to work on there marriege after the betrayal. It takes alot of courage to forgive. But some of us are unforgiving.....and I'm one those.

 

Brothers.....You know yourself....and you are right ...each of us is different.

 

I was a person who judged others...i was ABOVE cheating...I was miss goody goody two shoes...miss Christian...miss holier than thou

 

I cheated...that is reality

 

My husband always said if i ever cheated ...he would leave

 

He stayed....that is reality

 

You see...we may THINK we know how we would respond to scenarios...but when they become realities....we may even surprise ourselves.

 

I am not disputing that infidelity would be a deal breaker for you...but i hope and pray you NEVER have to find out.

 

 

Understand50....there is ALWAYS a possibility that cheating can occur....ALWAYS. I unfortunately know that first hand. I thought i made that clear...I apologize if i did not make that clear.

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Bittersweetie

Trusted,

 

I agree with your wife. When I think about what I did, I do feel physically ill. And I do say I will not cheat again. The reasons I believe that for myself:

 

- Because I do not want to be that person who lies, cheats, and hurts others...not only for my marriage, but FOR MYSELF.

- Because I am now stronger in my personal boundaries and will not put myself in a position to be around a flirting guy after four gin and tonics.

- Because I recognize the slippery slope an A can be and if there ever was a sign of anything sketchy I will be out of there. I won't tell myself "just friends" or some such.

- Because my marriage and family is my top priority and I refuse to engage in actions that will cause them pain.

 

Maybe some will say I am just spouting nonsense, but I can only answer for myself and I can say with certainty that there is no f-ing way I will ever make that choice again.

 

To answer your question: of course I don't expect 100% trust again. I caused him pain that will never be erased. To be honest, I no longer trust him 100%. I have seen what people are capable of; I have done it myself unfortunately. We no longer have blind trust in our relationship; we do have 99%. It works for us.

 

Hope this helps.

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So my 2-part question to FWWs is: Do you really expect your BS to ever go back to 100% trust and confidence in your ability not to hurt them again?

 

 

speaking as a BH....I left, But NO...Forgiveness yes....Reconciliation ..a definite NO!

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dreamingoftigers
Trusted,

 

I agree with your wife. When I think about what I did, I do feel physically ill. And I do say I will not cheat again. The reasons I believe that for myself:

 

- Because I do not want to be that person who lies, cheats, and hurts others...not only for my marriage, but FOR MYSELF.

- Because I am now stronger in my personal boundaries and will not put myself in a position to be around a flirting guy after four gin and tonics.

- Because I recognize the slippery slope an A can be and if there ever was a sign of anything sketchy I will be out of there. I won't tell myself "just friends" or some such.

- Because my marriage and family is my top priority and I refuse to engage in actions that will cause them pain.

 

Maybe some will say I am just spouting nonsense, but I can only answer for myself and I can say with certainty that there is no f-ing way I will ever make that choice again.

 

To answer your question: of course I don't expect 100% trust again. I caused him pain that will never be erased. To be honest, I no longer trust him 100%. I have seen what people are capable of; I have done it myself unfortunately. We no longer have blind trust in our relationship; we do have 99%. It works for us.

 

Hope this helps.

 

From what I've seen, there's those that taste the forbidden fruit and get sick from itso they stay away.

 

The there are those that get sick from it and stay away for awhile, then think "maybe I just got a bad piece. Seems like everyone else enjoys it."

 

Then there are those that eat and puke everyday but they think it's their spouse's cooking making them sick.

 

I think you are the first category.

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I think it would be foolish for ANY betrayed spouse to ever give 100% blind trust again to someone whose already clearly shown them what they're capable of doing when the opportunity arose.

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Mrs. John Adams
So my 2-part question to FWWs is: Do you really expect your BS to ever go back to 100% trust and confidence in your ability not to hurt them again?

 

 

speaking as a BH....I left, But NO...Forgiveness yes....Reconciliation ..a definite NO!

 

I do not expect John to ever blindly trust me 100% again.

I do not trust myself 100%...

 

Once you know what you are capable of... You know there is always the chance.

You can do everything you know is right to shore up boundaries and transparency...but you still know you did it.

 

Contrary to popular belief... There are some waywards who are as hurt and disappointed in themselves as their spouse is with them.

 

Certainly not all ... But some

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Isn't it kind of foolish to trust anyone or anything 100%? The human is brain is one of the most complex things we have found in the Universe. Billions of neurons making trillions of connections every second. Just the slightest bit of change can alter someone's personality forever. We are just way too complex and have such little free will that 100% is setting yourself up for failure.

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TrustedthenBusted
Isn't it kind of foolish to trust anyone or anything 100%? The human is brain is one of the most complex things we have found in the Universe. Billions of neurons making trillions of connections every second. Just the slightest bit of change can alter someone's personality forever. We are just way too complex and have such little free will that 100% is setting yourself up for failure.

 

 

Oh...sure...NOW you tell me! :laugh:

 

And of course you make perfect sense.

 

I think though, we let ourselves believe, despite oceans of evidence to the contrary, that wedding vows offer us a level or protection from this sort of thing. Kind of like believing " Well, this person is committed to living the rest of their life with me, so it wouldn't make any sense for them to destroy the very home they are committing to building."

 

Turns out, If I had gotten my wedding vows, plus an additional $4.25, I could have bought a small vanilla latte.

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Oh...sure...NOW you tell me! :laugh:

 

And of course you make perfect sense.

 

I think though, we let ourselves believe, despite oceans of evidence to the contrary, that wedding vows offer us a level or protection from this sort of thing. Kind of like believing " Well, this person is committed to living the rest of their life with me, so it wouldn't make any sense for them to destroy the very home they are committing to building."

 

Turns out, If I had gotten my wedding vows, plus an additional $4.25, I could have bought a small vanilla latte.

 

Don't forget the tax and the headache that comes with it :)

 

C

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Hi Folks, Just to set the cat among the pigeons, I was wondering why people automatically assume that they can trust another person, even their fiances/ fiancees a hundred per cent to start of with. Why not start with a trust deficit of ten per cent to start off with. That way if the other partner cheats then it was to be expected to the extent of ten per cent and the devastation that follows will be tempered accordingly. In businesses I think people ate more pragmatic and allow for slip ups and failures. Thats why we have insurance companies which make a lot of money based on the vicissitudes of life. There should be an insurance system that works for BS so that they can recover some of their lost capital( of trust).

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Simply stated, I trust you fully until you prove otherwise. Just like in the saying, "I consider you a friend until you prove me wrong." I would not marry a woman that I do not trust fully, 100 percent. That's why I did not marry my fiancée who had a ONS. No matter how much she begged and asked for forgiveness, I no longer trusted her 100 percent. My wife is truthful and I do trust her 100 percent. 20 years later and I still do.

 

When someone proves to be untrustworthy, then I treat them accordingly.

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This is what happens to the trust. The WW broke it. She can repair it though like the cup the cracks/damage will always be there.

 

Many BH's have said that trust has been restored to 99% though with time the doubts will lessen though never fully. There will always be that 1% causing them to worry and keep their ears and eyes open to nip any back sliding before more damage is done.

 

After all many BH's after D day and come to these forums and learn that many WW's claimed to say they ended the affair only to give their BH multiple D days afterwards, and many others that restarted the old affair years later or had another OM

You know - I'm just going to start asking this question because for the longest time, I really haven't been sure. Often you (and other male posters) post something like this in which all references to the BS or WS are specific to WWs and BHs even if you're generalizing about trust or whatever. Is it because that's what's immediate to you so you write that way or do you really mean to limit the comment to WWs and BHs?

 

I am serious. I've felt everything from confused to annoyed, but think I'll just try asking. Are you talking to all of us or just the men?

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strugglinghubby

My WW has said the same, that she cannot understand why she did what she did. She says that it makes her sick just thinking about it now, and that she'll never ever do anything like this again. She has said that she was naive, stupid, and too trusting, and that once she got caught up in it all just sort of got swept away with it all. She says that she knew it was a train wreck waiting to happen, but by that point she was in too deep and was in the fog I guess.

 

So no I don't think there will ever be 100% blind trust again. Yes I will trust her, but I now understand the 'trust but verify' mantra.

 

She has said that she doesn't even want to let other men in at all now, and that she doesn't even want to talk to them. I've said that is a little extreme. I told her she should be applying a simple test, that if whatever she is saying or doing with someone else she wouldn't do with them in front of me then it's crossing the line and she should stop. She should be applying that lens to what she is saying to other people as well as how she is acting. She 100% agrees that if she applied that rule she would never have come close to having the A.

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My thinking is that NOBODY wants to cheat, or admit they are susceptible to an affair, least of all someone who already got caught in one. But, it seems pretty easy to say how you will react when some guy at the company sales kickoff starts flirting after your fourth gin and tonic. But this is what I imagine all FWW's said before getting into affair in the first place, right?

 

The reality is that WHEN that sales kickoff takes place and WHEN that attractive girl spends way more time shaking your hand than is necessary...THAT'S when your feelings and actions really matter. And not before.

 

It's like I know that my wife is trying to comfort me when she says she'd never do this again, and I'm sure that as she is saying it, she really does have a visceral reaction to the thoughts about the past....but I still can't accept the idea of "never."

 

So my 2-part question to FWWs is: Do you really expect your BS to ever go back to 100% trust and confidence in your ability not to hurt them again?

 

And if not, can you content yourself with like 90%?

 

My H (a fWS) and I (fOW) were discussing similar issues the other night with friends (apropos mutual friends who had experienced infidelity but stayed together - at least so far). The mutual friends were going through yet another rough patch, and had independently insisted to both us and the other friends that the good ("high trust") times more than compensated for the bad ("low trust") times, but we'd all come to the conclusion that they were settling - that they'd made peace with never having the type of R they'd truly want, because he (BS) would always know in his heart of hearts that she (WS) was capable of such cruelty toward him even if she swore she'd never do it again.

 

H said he would not have been able to stay with his (X)BW for similar reasons - knowing he felt that little for her that allowed him to do that to her told him that that was not a good R for him to be in, since it twisted him into "being" something he was not (comfortable "being"). He said IC had helped sensitise him to situations where he was being positioned inauthenticly, so that he could challenge them in the moment rather than simply go along with it and let it compound itself over time.

 

He also said that living under a regime of being distrusted (like our mutual friends, post-infidelity) really eats at you over time. Although he had been faithful for three decades of the R, his xW had always treated him with mistrust and suspicion (which he put down to FOO issues, but was more likely due to her own cheating) and he said that while that inspired you to try harder and harder to win trust and confidence, eventually you just thought, "stuff this! If I'm being treated like a criminal anyway, I might as well do the crime that I'm doing the time for. " - and so it wears away at your own innate resistance to infidelity. He expected to hear that either our mutual friend succumbed to another A before long, or that her BH would succumb to an escape of his own (an A, or - more likely - the bottle).

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...that was not a good R for him to be in, since it twisted him into "being" something he was not (comfortable "being").

 

so he claims that the bad relationship is exclusively to be blamed for HIS cheating? am i getting that right?

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Isn't it kind of foolish to trust anyone or anything 100%? The human is brain is one of the most complex things we have found in the Universe. Billions of neurons making trillions of connections every second. Just the slightest bit of change can alter someone's personality forever. We are just way too complex and have such little free will that 100% is setting yourself up for failure.

 

^ this. it's actually UNhealthy to trust anyone or anthing 100% and relationships like that often have a very strong pathological traits in them.

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