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Telling the children


Lion Heart

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Thankyou in advance for any contributions to this thread.

I am a BW. 13w today since my DDay. WH has stayed, kept his bags packed for 12w, left and come back several times, threatened to leave etc. Bags are unpacked now. I had an exit plan in place final by week 4 post DDay. WH has been recently diagnosed and is coming to terms with the harm he's caused me and his 3 children still living at home, plus his diagnoses (which I can guess at but cannot discuss - MC on Friday).

On DDay WH told our twin sons (12y) that he'd had an A while I was driving back with my DD (9) from her gym class. He had told me over the phone and my whole world was shaking. I kept it from her, only to find out when I arrived home, that WH had told sons. The children are very close and I knew instantly that she would find out so got them together immediately and did the phoenix talk about rising above things.

There is always a lot of contention about telling the children, indeed anyone, about a spouses affair. As much as I thought the delivery of the information was quite cruel, the children would have been told at some point, esp due to the complete shambles things have been in.

I want to share what my 3 children wrote to their father when all of us were distraught one night when he went out to a club and was staying overnight at his friends house. I could see they were feeling low. I had been triggering but couldn't bare to see the children upset. I got them together and answered more of their questions in as age appropriate way as I could. I didn't expand their knowledge with a monologue, merely clarified their concerns.

After an hour of this, the children said "Dad just doesn't know what he's doing! He needs a list. How about a Top 10 List of things you SHOULDN'T DO AFTER you've had an affair?" So they did. I scribed, no editing by me whatsoever (they wouldn't let me put it in kinder words!) and was gobsmacked. They thought it might be hard to get to 10. They wanted me to read it to him before he came in the house the next morning, I did.

I believe that sometimes, with support, children can come out of this sh**ty situation with a deeper understanding of human relationships.

Here's their list:

"Top 10 things you DON'T do AFTER you have an affair

1. Say "I want to leave and start afresh".

2. Say "I want to spend $100 000 on a 4 year Uni Course 2 hours away. You can support me," to your wife.

3. Say "I want to start playing poker for money".

4. Spend $100 drinking with your mates but say you can't afford $100 to give your wife and 3 kids".

5. Say "I've got something to work for and look forward to now that I'm going to concerts with my mates".

6. Pack your car a few minutes after you told your wife you've had an affair.

7. Tell your mates you separated with your wife, when technically you haven't.

8. Keep lying.

9. Ignore your family. DO ignore other women instead.

10. Pour your heart out and cry to single women. Pour your heart out to us instead.

11. Worry about leaving because people will think you're the bad guy. You already are.

12. Yell at your wife when you're the bad guy.

13. Say you're at work but you're actually buying alcohol.

14. Have another affair.

15. Have a long list of what you want. Just be happy with what you've got.

16. Make promises you can't keep.

17. Text other women back when they text you.

18. Say "It's over if I GET THE KIDS 50/50". Ask what the kids want. We don't want 50/50.

19. Tell your wife that her dreams about you and other women are false when you know they're true.

20. Tell your mother to lie for you.

21. Say everything your family doesn't want to hear in a thousand million years.

22. Make everyone WANT to make a list of everything you shouldn't do.

23. Make your wife turn into a crazy person.

24. Ignore your wife when she's talking to you.

25. Change your pin numbers on anything.

26. Tell your wife about your affair on the kids special day.

27. Tell your wife what to do. She's allowed to see and talk to her friends.

 

 

DO THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF ALL THE ABOVE IF YOU WANT TO KEEP YOUR FAMILY"

 

 

Bad, sad, hard lessons to learn for children. Agree?

 

 

BTW: All children were laughing about the things they were writing because they sounded so ridiculous, "but dad needs to know these things" is all they kept reminding each other, they shrugged and added it to the list. They all slept soundly that night. My beautiful babies who now don't believe in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny since D Day. Their innocence was stolen that day. :-(

Edited by Lion Heart
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LH, So sorry this has impacted your children like this! Ugh.

 

Mine too. They are about the same ages as yours. Two girls though. They heard bits and pieces of the story during loud arguments in the house. They asked me if WS was "dating" the AP. This was after Dday. When WS was no longer involved with the AP but they were trying to make sense of what happened. Why I was upset. This is what they came up with. WS had taken them to lunch with the AP once during the A.

 

WS won't talk to them about any of it now though. I tried to get WS on board with talking to them together. WS wants to place head firmly in the sand. Wants to pretend they know nothing. They humor WS and pretend they don't when WS is around.

 

They understand that divorce is possible, even likely. The older one is furious with WS. Says awful things to WS and has a very short fuse with WS. Not about the A. Never makes mention of it. But I know that is what it is about. Once in a while she will say something like, "you deserve that for what you have done!" But that kind of thing is always said very quietly. WS either does not hear it or pretends not to.

 

The younger one has always been more easy going. You would never know anything was amiss from observing her. Once in a while she does talk to me about how it will be living part time with each of us though. She seems ok with it. Just comments on the logistics of how she will get what she needs in that situation. She has friends that are in that situation of course. Sad that seems to be my family's fate now too.

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Confused, I'm sorry. It's so horrible. It's heartbreaking watching my children grapple with the knowledge but they're coming out "ok" - I say that tentatively!

 

If only the WSs really felt what we or the children feel. I'd hope their behaviours would be entirely different.

 

I agree with my WH that there was no way this information would have been taken well. It's the mode that shocked them too they said (me not being here) plus the boys - then later DD saw their dads ute piled a mile high with all his "precious" belongings. The guitar on top. Like the final decoration on top. Really an insult that he'd play music / be ABLE to do that! Then!

I was so focussed on getting to my boys that I didn't even see he'd packed!

 

Ofcourse DD 22y with H and baby thought "he's gone". She's being so mature and respectful towards WF, she wanted him out asap. BUT is supporting any decision I make. DD visits often. SIL 38y has visited once when WH wasn't here - he's disgusted.

 

I booked an IC appt by 8am the day after D Day. I stayed sober for the appt a few days later. WH promptly booked IC and MC for the first time in his life. I'd never suggested it ever. Then neither. He could've gone to AP and rotted along with her for all I cared.

 

The children and I often refer to Number __ on the kids list as we call it now, when reminding him of his behaviour. It's not easy (certainly begun a wake up process within WH) because WH lost our respect in an instant. The kids said they felt he didn't love them by what he did. I do too. Love us "enough"? Love us the "right way"? It's all so questionable. I've given up on that one because after 3 horrid months, it would DEFINITELY have been easier for WH to leave, live at parents, give up on being IN our family.

 

Publicly WH knows all the staff at kids school know because his OW TOLD THEM ALL! She was so excited to be dating my H / WH. The things she told them! He's so embarrassed. The kids told most of their friends because they were so sad. They think an A means kissing and wanting another woman. I'm sure the boys at least have worked out "rude bits".

 

I can't believe the audacity of some people! Taking your children out to lunch with OW? ? Wtf?? Our OW introduced herself and spoke to my children at length and said to ME "I was so tempted to say 'I'm dating your daddy', 'soon I'm going to be your new mummy'" uuuurrrrrggghhh. I blame all this in WH. I was HS Captain with their Principal - yeah HUGE repurcussions there.

 

OW also had her grand D make friends with my DD and organized a play date so her family could inspect MY HOUSE, because this is where she'd be living! Holy cr**. She sure got carried away with her imagination there! They came and wouldn't leave. I had NO IDEA. I had 2 houses when I met WH. he had nothing. In debt as he's stayed. I'm the major breadwinner and pay the mortgage! Food the lot. I WANTED WH TO GO LIVE WITH HER SO I COULD WATCH THEM STARVE!

 

That poor child. What a mental family! They've taken her out of the school.

 

LH

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Thankyou in advance for any contributions to this thread.

I am a BW. 13w today since my DDay. WH has stayed, kept his bags packed for 12w, left and come back several times, threatened to leave etc. Bags are unpacked now. I had an exit plan in place final by week 4 post DDay. WH has been recently diagnosed and is coming to terms with the harm he's caused me and his 3 children still living at home, plus his diagnoses (which I can guess at but cannot discuss - MC on Friday).

On DDay WH told our twin sons (12y) that he'd had an A while I was driving back with my DD (9) from her gym class. He had told me over the phone and my whole world was shaking. I kept it from her, only to find out when I arrived home, that WH had told sons. The children are very close and I knew instantly that she would find out so got them together immediately and did the phoenix talk about rising above things.

There is always a lot of contention about telling the children, indeed anyone, about a spouses affair. As much as I thought the delivery of the information was quite cruel, the children would have been told at some point, esp due to the complete shambles things have been in.

I want to share what my 3 children wrote to their father when all of us were distraught one night when he went out to a club and was staying overnight at his friends house. I could see they were feeling low. I had been triggering but couldn't bare to see the children upset. I got them together and answered more of their questions in as age appropriate way as I could. I didn't expand their knowledge with a monologue, merely clarified their concerns.

After an hour of this, the children said "Dad just doesn't know what he's doing! He needs a list. How about a Top 10 List of things you SHOULDN'T DO AFTER you've had an affair?" So they did. I scribed, no editing by me whatsoever (they wouldn't let me put it in kinder words!) and was gobsmacked. They thought it might be hard to get to 10. They wanted me to read it to him before he came in the house the next morning, I did.

I believe that sometimes, with support, children can come out of this sh**ty situation with a deeper understanding of human relationships.

Here's their list:

"Top 10 things you DON'T do AFTER you have an affair

1. Say "I want to leave and start afresh".

2. Say "I want to spend $100 000 on a 4 year Uni Course 2 hours away. You can support me," to your wife.

3. Say "I want to start playing poker for money".

4. Spend $100 drinking with your mates but say you can't afford $100 to give your wife and 3 kids".

5. Say "I've got something to work for and look forward to now that I'm going to concerts with my mates".

6. Pack your car a few minutes after you told your wife you've had an affair.

7. Tell your mates you separated with your wife, when technically you haven't.

8. Keep lying.

9. Ignore your family. DO ignore other women instead.

10. Pour your heart out and cry to single women. Pour your heart out to us instead.

11. Worry about leaving because people will think you're the bad guy. You already are.

12. Yell at your wife when you're the bad guy.

13. Say you're at work but you're actually buying alcohol.

14. Have another affair.

15. Have a long list of what you want. Just be happy with what you've got.

16. Make promises you can't keep.

17. Text other women back when they text you.

18. Say "It's over if I GET THE KIDS 50/50". Ask what the kids want. We don't want 50/50.

19. Tell your wife that her dreams about you and other women are false when you know they're true.

20. Tell your mother to lie for you.

21. Say everything your family doesn't want to hear in a thousand million years.

22. Make everyone WANT to make a list of everything you shouldn't do.

23. Make your wife turn into a crazy person.

24. Ignore your wife when she's talking to you.

25. Change your pin numbers on anything.

26. Tell your wife about your affair on the kids special day.

27. Tell your wife what to do. She's allowed to see and talk to her friends.

 

 

DO THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF ALL THE ABOVE IF YOU WANT TO KEEP YOUR FAMILY"

 

 

Bad, sad, hard lessons to learn for children. Agree?

 

 

BTW: All children were laughing about the things they were writing because they sounded so ridiculous, "but dad needs to know these things" is all they kept reminding each other, they shrugged and added it to the list. They all slept soundly that night. My beautiful babies who now don't believe in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny since D Day. Their innocence was stolen that day. :-(

 

OMG. Your kids are awesome. This needs to be moved to the pinned, Things Every WS Needs to Know thread.

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OMG. Your kids are awesome. This needs to be moved to the pinned, Things Every WS Needs to Know thread.

 

Thanks BH, I'm so grateful we all found a way out of our sad feelings that night. Never once thought we'd be laughing about WHs affair!

 

To think they thought they were done at Number 7. Then flowed right through to 27 so fast.

 

If I ever break NC with WH family because I think I can deflect their sh**. I'm gonna print out copies of this list for each of them. The children are after all THEIR relatives they love? I'm sure they'd like to know how they've dealt with their WF!

 

I'm very grateful for your wisdom on posts of yours I've read.

Thankyou

LH

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Number 26: WH and I attended a School Ceremony the morning of D Day as my twin boys were BOTH elected school leaders.

It was what they'd wanted so much.

 

Later that day after A came out, twin 2 through heaving tears said, "this was the happiest day of our lives today, now it's the worst day of our lives". Gut wrenchingly hard to respond to that one off the cuff!

 

Number 27. WH still has a LONG way to go (he's weird about LS!) but now at least he's actually disclosing the WHOLE picture to his friends and family. He's stopped villifying me.

 

LH

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gettingstronger

WOW- thats pretty deep for kids and shows you have an amazing relationship with them, they feel safe with you and that is great-

 

Your post has me thinking- my boys are 15 and 20 and my husbands affair is the elephant in the room- they have heard bits and pieces as well but we have not sat down with them and talked about it-

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Wow. That was very emotional. Your dear children having to deal with this because of their father's infidelity. It's heartbreaking. I really wish the OW /OM could see the damage they contribute to and realise that real people are involved. I bet your H would your H would have never agreed that he would hurt his own children, but he's done exactly that. Your innocent children having to deal with the fallout of dad's affair.

 

Parent's are meant to protect their children and yet their dad has brought this hurt to them. The number of children that end up needing therapy because of one parent's infidelity is rising. The parent/AP do not think about the consequences of their actions, because they are so selfish. How does a WS expect their child to respect them, when they do this.

 

Bless your wonderful children. You've raised them well.

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WOW- thats pretty deep for kids and shows you have an amazing relationship with them, they feel safe with you and that is great-

 

Your post has me thinking- my boys are 15 and 20 and my husbands affair is the elephant in the room- they have heard bits and pieces as well but we have not sat down with them and talked about it-

 

The whole experience post-A has been a real eye opener. It's both put a magnifying glass on the difference between the kids relationships with their WF and me (separately) and turned the "volume" up, if you will. Both WH and I have been shocked at their mature behaviours for their age.

 

The magnifying glass / "volume": SO many things. And in no way have I wanted to sway or influence the kids because I KNOW they love their WF and they should. From separation to D and beyond I know that too much harm has already been done to their sweet lives. It's all about them, their futures and their security.

it's OBVIOUS none of them are in any way interested in 50/50 custody. With ANY custody arrangements, they want a say in whether they even spend A NIGHT with WF! They don't want to be made to do anything. They want a say / to be heard. The twins even went so far as to say that they want me to stay with WH until they're 13, SO they can present their side in court ABOUT the custody. DD was so sad and asked if I could stay till she's 13 too. So sad.

It's obvious to them who is the stable provider for their needs.

Ofcourse many children want mummy.

It's HOW MUCH they want me (over WF) that's shocked me.

 

Each child has shown their grief about WFs affair in different ways. Their grief exists NOW even though we are not discussing separation (much).

Twin 1 waits till everyone in the house is asleep and comes to me, wakes me even, and cries like I've never seen him do. I hold him and rock him like a baby. WH sees none of this. Twin 1 doesn't want WF to see. Now after 13w he's vocalising his grief, disbelief, anger and frustration. He couldn't until 2 days ago.

Twin 2 is the leader of the pack. Culminates their discussions and presents very convincing arguments about what they've decided. He cries openly when WF is not present. Knows why. Says why. He also says quite often when I've been completely honest eg "As are a deal breaker for mummy, that's why I struggle". Yes thankyou mummy, I'm SO RELIEVED you said that because they should be.

DD has been outright ANGRY at WF. Articulating her anger perfectly, directing her anger at the source if her hurt (WF) and being very supportive of any decision I make.

 

The thing I'm grappling with is that none of them want us to D.

There can't be an elephant in the room here. Good or bad. It's just the way it is.

 

I've had to say alot, "some things are grown up problems. You have to leave it up to the adults. Your job is to be a child and do children things etc etc".

 

It's difficult territory to navigate. NOT discussing things with these children would be harmful and not allow them to process their thoughts and feelings.

 

LH

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ladydesigner

In my case the kids found out because of the way I reacted on first Dday. I also told them of our False R. I did not want them to think I have been crying and going through a hard time for no reason. My children are ages 11 and 8 but were 8 and 5 at the age of first discovery. My daughter had also intercepted texts between my WH and MOW so I had to explain to her what was going on.

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I'm not usually in favor of discussing affairs with children, since they tend to blame themselves for everything, and they can't understand all the adult emotions that go into both sides of it.

 

BUT - in this case, your DH did a lot of things that directly affected your kids, and they needed an explanation.

 

Your post is an excellent illustration of how someone doesn't cheat just on their spouse, but on their whole family.

 

I love #9... DO ignore other women instead.

 

Good advice!

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Lionheart

 

How does your H feel about his A and the impact it's had on the kids? Does he realise his selfishness has devastated them so much?

 

Sometimes I wonder if the WS realises just how much they have to loose when they have an A.

 

The loss of respect from the kids

The damaged relationship it causes between them and so much more. Can they really say any other woman /man was worth it? I think not.

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Age appropriate answer:? That is simple. "This is between your Father and I".

 

No paper or pen needed. A group hug though to help them thru the family heartache.

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Lionheart

 

How does your H feel about his A and the impact it's had on the kids? Does he realise his selfishness has devastated them so much?

 

Sometimes I wonder if the WS realises just how much they have to loose when they have an A.

 

The loss of respect from the kids

The damaged relationship it causes between them and so much more. Can they really say any other woman /man was worth it? I think not.

 

How does WH feel about the impact on the kids?

Disbelief, literally. He just doesn't BELIEVE there's "much" of an impact. 5 days after D Day twin 2 (spokesman) asked where WF would live if he left. I said his parents I guess but anywhere he wanted to. We had no say. Reply was then he can stay for Christmas day and leave Boxing Day. We've had enough.

WH thought I was lying.

Ofcourse I'm not gonna lie! (Weird how he's called me EVERYTHING HE IS!)

Usually he's snoring like a baby when most of their emotions come out. Or the kids shut the door to talk to me.

It's not just RESPECT they've lost for WF, it's TRUST.

 

TBH I think WH / WF is actually too self-absorbed to really see the children's behaviours have changed.

WFs attitude is something like this: "I haven't changed my feelings towards the children so why should theirs? I still love them the same. No reason why theirs has. I didn't do it TO HURT them OR YOU so why are any of you carrying on like I did? "

 

My DD 22y noticed the change in the kids BIG TIME and offered to speak with WH about the effects she can see. The children go to her too, to talk. She took back her offer.

 

My best friend, K, is a child psychologist. She lives 4h away so we don't see her often. About 1 full week per 3m. But K spent a week with the chn soon after D Day. After that week K said the chn were deeply affected by WF A and ensuing situation. I didn't WANT that assessment of my chns psyche to be true! But K loves and trusts us enough to be completely honest.

 

Is any OM or OW "worth it"? To be absolutely honest IMHO

BECAUSE an OW existed, I question whether the WF is "worth it"!!!!!! NO OTHER PERSON ON EARTH IS WORTH IT TO ME!

My chn, and indeed myself, were exposed on so my levels to psychological harm through this A. Ofcourse no OM or OW is worth it to any sane person who has empathy for the chn.

 

WH admits OW wasn't "worth it" but only because of WHs discomfort at home and in the community I think. He also went into it thinking I would NEVER find out. That he had enough control over her, she'd keep it quiet. In reality she was blabbing her mouth off! It was only a matter of time before I found out. OW was so excited and proud (errrk) that she told as many people as possible about it. Our circles crossed quite deeply at that point.

 

LH

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I'm not usually in favor of discussing affairs with children, since they tend to blame themselves for everything, and they can't understand all the adult emotions that go into both sides of it.

 

BUT - in this case, your DH did a lot of things that directly affected your kids, and they needed an explanation.

 

Your post is an excellent illustration of how someone doesn't cheat just on their spouse, but on their whole family.

 

I love #9... DO ignore other women instead.

 

Good advice!

 

Thanks I agree. It's really up to each family.

 

Interesting point about children blaming themselves.

 

My children haven't at all. They thought WF must have not loved them to do it, but the responsibility and blame lies entirely with WF / WH. For all of us.

 

In my own childhood experience, I never knew WHY my father left us. Why my mother was distraught for so long before he left, less so afterwards really! He left when I was about 7. I pieced it together by myself by my mid 20s. I completely blamed myself most of my childhood. No one ever told me the truth. I thought it was mainly because I was a girl, not a boy. He'd left then was with another woman with 2 healthy boys. I gathered that's what he wanted, to parent 2 boys. My younger brother had died. Parents adopted another boy. He left his girl and boy to be with 2 other boys. It made sense to a child. His ensuing behaviour of giving those ungrateful, spoilt boys everything, while we suffered homelessness, poverty, hunger? He gave no child support in $ to my mother. Obvious to me!

 

The actual truth was she was his AP for YEARS and before my brother died!

 

As I grew up, I KNEW without a doubt in my head, that I would NEVER forsake nor abandon my children ever.

 

This is the premise for me talking this through as my children ask (point of most learning). I don't sit and lecture. I'm being as honest as I know how. It's my responsibility and my prerogative.

 

It's certainly other parents prerogative to guide and parent their children in the ways they know are best. I totally respect that.

:-)

 

Lion Heart.

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HereNorThere

If you lie, or lie by omission to your children, all you're really doing is enabling the cheater's behavior and violating your child's trust. You don't have to give them all the gory details, but that argument is a red herring. Kids are perceptive and pick up on emotions sometimes better than adults do. They have have a more plastic intelligence compared to an adult's more crystalline intelligence and are still forming their world view. You have to show them with your actions, not your words what's right and wrong.

 

Besides honesty just always being the best policy, the truth is that a cheater should be accountable to all the people that have violated. When you put your child's future at risk, when you change their life in such a monumental way, when you purposely hurt their parent, you deserve to be held accountable by them. They have a right to know who you really are and treat you as such. If you're an untrustworthy person, that's information they have right to. It's not fair for them be duped into building a bond with someone who doesn't respect their family.

 

I think a lot of this BS hide the WS's actions because they don't want to look weak in front of their children. The paradox is that kids already know and you look weak rugsweeping and being in denial. You continue to violate their trust because they know you are lying to them. It symbolically teaches them that it's okay to lie to those you love and care about.

 

Lie to them about huge things like this and they'll never truly trust you again. They'll always just be wondering whether or not you're telling the truth or just what you think they need to hear.

 

Being a parent doesn't give you the right to create reality. That which can be destroyed by truth, should be. You should teach your children to seek the truth at all cost. Now matter how cold and brutal it may sometimes be.

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How does WH feel about the impact on the kids?

Disbelief, literally. He just doesn't BELIEVE there's "much" of an impact. 5 days after D Day twin 2 (spokesman) asked where WF would live if he left. I said his parents I guess but anywhere he wanted to. We had no say. Reply was then he can stay for Christmas day and leave Boxing Day. We've had enough.

WH thought I was lying.

Ofcourse I'm not gonna lie! (Weird how he's called me EVERYTHING HE IS!)

Usually he's snoring like a baby when most of their emotions come out. Or the kids shut the door to talk to me.

It's not just RESPECT they've lost for WF, it's TRUST.

 

TBH I think WH / WF is actually too self-absorbed to really see the children's behaviours have changed.

WFs attitude is something like this: "I haven't changed my feelings towards the children so why should theirs? I still love them the same. No reason why theirs has. I didn't do it TO HURT them OR YOU so why are any of you carrying on like I did? "

 

My DD 22y noticed the change in the kids BIG TIME and offered to speak with WH about the effects she can see. The children go to her too, to talk. She took back her offer.

 

My best friend, K, is a child psychologist. She lives 4h away so we don't see her often. About 1 full week per 3m. But K spent a week with the chn soon after D Day. After that week K said the chn were deeply affected by WF A and ensuing situation. I didn't WANT that assessment of my chns psyche to be true! But K loves and trusts us enough to be completely honest.

 

Is any OM or OW "worth it"? To be absolutely honest IMHO

BECAUSE an OW existed, I question whether the WF is "worth it"!!!!!! NO OTHER PERSON ON EARTH IS WORTH IT TO ME!

My chn, and indeed myself, were exposed on so my levels to psychological harm through this A. Ofcourse no OM or OW is worth it to any sane person who has empathy for the chn.

 

WH admits OW wasn't "worth it" but only because of WHs discomfort at home and in the community I think. He also went into it thinking I would NEVER find out. That he had enough control over her, she'd keep it quiet. In reality she was blabbing her mouth off! It was only a matter of time before I found out. OW was so excited and proud (errrk) that she told as many people as possible about it. Our circles crossed quite deeply at that point.

 

LH

 

I can't believe he just doesn't get it. He thinks he didn't do it to them, but anyone who does something bad to someone you love is obviously going to be affected by that. His affair has destroyed the family and he expects them to be okay with that.

 

It's that attitude that would really pi** me off. The failure to acknowledge that he's messed up big time.

 

No good ever comes of an A. To harm the family you're meant to protect is terrible.

 

A family friend of my parents had a LTA and left his wife, over 30 years later 2 of the kids have no relationship with him. They barely speak to him and the girl had her brother walk her down the aisle when she got married. She said she couldn't forgive him after how he treated her mother.

 

The selfishness is outrageous.

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If you lie, or lie by omission to your children, all you're really doing is enabling the cheater's behavior and violating your child's trust. You don't have to give them all the gory details, but that argument is a red herring. Kids are perceptive and pick up on emotions sometimes better than adults do. They have have a more plastic intelligence compared to an adult's more crystalline intelligence and are still forming their world view. You have to show them with your actions, not your words what's right and wrong.

 

Besides honesty just always being the best policy, the truth is that a cheater should be accountable to all the people that have violated. When you put your child's future at risk, when you change their life in such a monumental way, when you purposely hurt their parent, you deserve to be held accountable by them. They have a right to know who you really are and treat you as such. If you're an untrustworthy person, that's information they have right to. It's not fair for them be duped into building a bond with someone who doesn't respect their family.

 

I think a lot of this BS hide the WS's actions because they don't want to look weak in front of their children. The paradox is that kids already know and you look weak rugsweeping and being in denial. You continue to violate their trust because they know you are lying to them. It symbolically teaches them that it's okay to lie to those you love and care about.

 

Lie to them about huge things like this and they'll never truly trust you again. They'll always just be wondering whether or not you're telling the truth or just what you think they need to hear.

 

Being a parent doesn't give you the right to create reality. That which can be destroyed by truth, should be. You should teach your children to seek the truth at all cost. Now matter how cold and brutal it may sometimes be.

 

Herenorthere, I agree entirely. I would never lie about what my children said! It's an abhorrent and absurd notion. One that I've seen come back and bite parents BIG TIME years later. My work of 30y is focussed on families. Children and families.

 

I don't espouse to know all the answers whatsoever. The mire I'm wading through is the most challenging thing of my lifetime.

There are some fundamental values I hold, one of which is TRUTH. I have witnessed and researched the merry-go-round of denial that can go back as learned behaviours in families for generations! It must have all begun with lies and deception, these morphed into habits and so on. VERY difficult to acknowledge in families, MORE DIFFICULT to break.

 

Another notion completely foreign to me is lying to protect the abuser. To me deception IS lying end of. Lying is the act. Deception is the GAME. This denial comes at huge costs to development of psyches.

 

I didn't lie to my eldest DD about reasons for D. Her WF has continued this path in his following marriage and family. It's shocking to DD just how buried in denial they are. They take NO RESPONSIBILITY whatsoever for the harm they've inflicted on DD since my D Day with exWH 21y ago. Most esp in their behaviour toward DD since. It's quite disgusting. I'm glad I didn't keep secrets from her. She's been all the more prepared for their cr** ever since. She's been NC on and off for 10y. There's barely a splinter left on that bridge to burn! But they'll find it and pour gasoline over it for sure.

 

My issues now in R are so many in supporting the chn moving forward. It's difficult.

 

LH

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I can't believe he just doesn't get it. He thinks he didn't do it to them, but anyone who does something bad to someone you love is obviously going to be affected by that. His affair has destroyed the family and he expects them to be okay with that.

 

It's that attitude that would really pi** me off. The failure to acknowledge that he's messed up big time.

 

No good ever comes of an A. To harm the family you're meant to protect is terrible.

 

A family friend of my parents had a LTA and left his wife, over 30 years later 2 of the kids have no relationship with him. They barely speak to him and the girl had her brother walk her down the aisle when she got married. She said she couldn't forgive him after how he treated her mother.

 

The selfishness is outrageous.

 

Sandylee, it's full blown NPD in full blown action. Iced with overblown entitlement, it's a wonder from he** to behold.

 

R hasn't made WH issues ^^^ change into humility or responsibility. He shows shame at times. I've noticed signs of depression (beg of remorse) at times too but these feelings don't last long. He reverts to more comfortable modes. In fact I'm wondering whether R has turned up the volume of his behaviours. I'm tempted to replace our MC session for Friday into an IC for me to discuss this with psychiatrist / psychologist. I think R is "feeding" WH behaviour and I can see why! I'm ready to ditch MC completely and replace it with Life Coaching for me, other preparatory therapies and hot yoga!

 

It's almost impossible for WH to lay Narcissus's mirror down to SEE us. Literally! That's what Number 13. illustrates. The chn and I were parked FACING the doors of the bottle shop. HUGE 4WD, lights on. Broad daylight. WH pushed his trolley full of grog out the doors, full on towards us, didn't see us, even with his "sentinel-like" head scanning the territory back and forth and still didn't even notice his W and 3 chn in the car. It goes on but I won't go on any more about that.

 

It's like I'm seeing things with my eyes WIDE OPEN now.

It's assaulting my sensibilities.

 

I think he's hoping we'll all just get back to normal but there is no going back because I can SEE what he's doing far more clearly as the days and weeks go on. He's absolutely NOT the man I thought he was AT ALL. I knew alot but nowhere near all.

 

Lion Heart.

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gettingstronger

LH I am sorry you are experiencing issues in your R- we all go through it but I am concerned for you that you are not seeing the changes in your husband that you are looking for- I agree, time to double down on you

 

Good luck and take care-

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I'm not usually in favor of discussing affairs with children, since they tend to blame themselves for everything, and they can't understand all the adult emotions that go into both sides of it.

 

 

I think this depends on the ages, and individual natures, of the kids involved. In our case, it was absolutely right not just to inform the kids, but to consult them and get their input. The context being that, some years previously (long before the A) the BW had stormed out after physically attacking her then-H in front of the kids, severely traumatising them. That separation lasted about a year, during which time he was happier than he'd ever been, but she fell to bits, and the kids really struggled (emotionally, socially, academically, etc) as a result. So when she begged him to take her back and promised all kinds of things, he felt compelled to, for their sakes.

 

When she didn't keep any of her promises, and reverted to her former abusive behaviour, he felt unable to leave, because of the trauma the kids still carried from the previous split. He stuck it out for a few years, eventually resorting to an A to help him cope, and then used the emotional relief that brought him to seek counselling, to get the kids into family counselling (she refused any interventions, since she has no problems...) and to help them become more secure.

 

At the point where our R became serious, he needed to apprise them of the situation, and to find out how they felt about things and what they wanted to see happen in the future. It was involving them in discussions about their future that gave them a sense of agency, and helped them to understand that it was *not* their fault.

 

They were teens at the time.

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Age appropriate answer:? That is simple. "This is between your Father and I".

 

No paper or pen needed. A group hug though to help them thru the family heartache.

 

I totally agree there is no way I'd be burdening a 9 yo or 12yo's with so many details about an adult issue.

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I totally agree there is no way I'd be burdening a 9 yo or 12yo's with so many details about an adult issue.

 

If the affair has affected them, it does need to be discussed. Not so as to be burdening, but if they have something to say they should be heard.

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My children, two young adult daughters and a son readying for college, SUSPECTED way before I did but refrained from mentioning anything to each other or me for fear of hurting feelings, KWIM?

 

Ahhh....love is blind.

 

A family man stops coming home, stops being kind to their mother, all under the guise of working a new, high-powered, high paying job, the one we had all been praying for because we just wanted Dad to be HAPPY again.... We chalked it up to job stress not realizing he had crashed into a needy, D, drama queen.

 

We all start walking on eggshells....BIG mistake.

 

After DDay, they demanded to know why he wasn't honest with me or them; Why didn't he tell US the truth, SEPARATE and seek marriage counseling to know if there was a marriage worth saving AND given me the option to see if there was a man better suited to meeting MY needs while he pursued his attraction to his OW.

 

cheaters are too selfish to let you play by their rules. Their egos could NEVER allow it.

 

As much as that would have hurt, it would have been the HONEST and ADULT action to take.

 

Out of the mouths of babes.....

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If the affair has affected them, it does need to be discussed. Not so as to be burdening, but if they have something to say they should be heard.

 

I Agree, but imagine the father sitting down with the kids and compiling a list of her traits that led him to stray in order for them to understand the picture completely. I doubt anyone would see that as appropriate.

Kids see more than they let on and really don't need to write lists about money and booze.

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