How do you define true remorse?

[VeryBrokenMan]

One of the things that stand out is that true remorse from the offending spouse is paramount to the success of the reconciliation.

 

How do you define true remorse?

[Man Mountain Makino]

One of the things that stand out is that true remorse from the offending spouse is paramount to the success of the reconciliation.

 

How do you define true remorse?

You've started a few threads, all about the same basic situation and dynamic.

 

What exactly are you looking for?

[Arieswoman]

Brokenman,

I don't know how you would define it but it's not just saying "sorry".

 

They have to show by their actions that they regret what they did. They must show that they value both you and the marriage and are prepared to work at it.

 

They must be able to prove to you that they have stopped all contact with the other party. They must delete their number from all 'phones and e-mail addresses and block the AP. They may need to write the OP a "no-contact letter" let you see it and then post it.

 

They must be totally transparent (no secret passwords anywhere) and allow you access to their 'phone.

 

They must agree to go to IC to work on what their issues were that caused them to cheat.

You must both go to MC to explore the dynamics of the marriage and how they can be improved.

 

Good Luck.

[jm2013]

Here's the definition of remorse -

1. deep and painful regret for wrongdoing; compunction.

 

2. Obsolete. pity; compassion.

 

When a spouse is caught in an LTA uncovered by the BS it is almost as if this "true remorse" is somehow forced on them. They WS is finally pinned into the corner and has to make a decision. Why is it only then does this remorse show? Shouldn't the WS'S love for their spouse prevented their actions from progressing into emotional and physical feelings for another person for so long?

 

I think for most WS'S it is only regrettable when they are caught. It's like breaking the law and doing something horrible and having that adrenaline rush then getting arrested for it and sitting in your cell looking back at how stupid it was. It was so stupid it got you to a point you didn't want to be. Now you have to pay for your actions. There was a lady on here Sophie I believe. She seemed like a true, remorseful WW. I think the guilt ate away at her the first time she was with another man beside her husband. The guilt piled up and drove her to tell her husband. I think that is true remorse. I do however think there is some true remorse that kicks in later on after the affair has been uncovered. Like in my situation I think my wife IS remorseful in some things. I'm not really sure. Maybe it struck her that she was about to leave our daughter handed with a broken family and every other weekend father. Perhaps the OM told her he wasn't leaving his family and HE wanted his marriage. Then my wife would have been handed with nothing. She would have destroyed her marriage for nothing. She would have lost two people who meant something to her. Maybe that's when her remorse kicked in who knows.

 

My wife had an affair that lasted over 1 year and was both emotional and physical. She was able to tuck those feelings in and come back to our home where I was belittled and battered emotionally. While she was investing her emotions and body to another man I was on the back burner and at times broiled in the oven over the most stupidest things I can remember. Were those emotions of remorse? I only started to see remorse later on down the road after I played PI for a long time unearthing more and more to the spider web I was handed. I hope you're doing ok man. I see you're asking a lot of questions about affairs on here. I think you're still in a numbness state questioning yourself each hour each day if your marriage can survive the nuclear explosion your wife detonated on it. It's hard...

Edited November 18, 2014 by jm2013

[elaine567]

You've started a few threads, all about the same basic situation and dynamic.

 

What exactly are you looking for?

~

 

He's looking for hope and comfort and someone to say it didn't really happen.

Unfortunately it did and there is no easy solution.

[VeryBrokenMan]

You've started a few threads, all about the same basic situation and dynamic.

 

What exactly are you looking for?

 

Just asking all the questions that I need answers to. Trying to understand my thoughts and my wife's. That's all.

 

 

I hope you're doing ok man. I see you're asking a lot of questions about affairs on here. I think you're still in a numbness state questioning yourself each hour each day if your marriage can survive the nuclear explosion your wife detonated on it. It's hard...

 

Thanks for your concern. It is really hard and I'm trying to take it a day at a time.

[Janesays]

Hi OP, our D-days were around the same time, so I totally get what you're going through right now. I have found this article about real or fake remorse helpful and maybe you will too:

 

Real Remorse? Or Genuine Imitation Naugahyde Remorse? - ChumpLady.com

[VeryBrokenMan]

Hi OP, our D-days were around the same time, so I totally get what you're going through right now. I have found this article about real or fake remorse helpful and maybe you will too:

 

Real Remorse? Or Genuine Imitation Naugahyde Remorse? - ChumpLady.com

 

Thanks, I've seen that recently but it helps to re-read things over and over.

[Spark1111]

I agree with posters who claim the initial reaction is guilt and self-shame.....that they were caught and the affair bubble bursted.

 

How dare you cry and get angry and ruin their fun!

 

Then, the next stage is begging you not to tell anyone, to not confront the AP, to go on as if the affair did not devastate you and your perception of reality and trust.

 

That is why so many infidelity gurus advise exposure; it hastens the bursting of the affair fog where weeeeeee, everything was perfect. Actions and choices ALWAYS have consequences.

 

It, for me, was over time my spouse became truly remorseful; when how low he had sunk set in.

 

But initially after DDay I saw more guilt and shame then remorse. Afterall, they really start to believe the lies about the marriage and the spouse that they told themselves daily to allow entrance into the affair.

 

It takes a while and NO CONTACT with the AP, to come back to reality.

[Bittersweetie]

From my experience, remorse was shown by actions. My H didn't really care or believe what I said in the time after d-day. And why should he? I lied, and even though what I said in the days after d-day was true, it's no surprise that he didn't believe me. So the only way I could show him that I was telling him the truth, even in little things, was through actions.

 

For example, my H asked me to text him whenever I went somewhere or got home. At first, this galled me. I have to report to him? WTH? I soon realized, though, that this was a way of rebuilding trust. I've said before, it's like putting a penny in the jar the size of car. But every text was a penny back in the bank.

 

I followed through on things I said I would do. I answered questions he asked even if they were difficult...no rug sweeping here. I did A LOT of counseling. Soon my actions became not only about showing remorse and being sorry, they became about me becoming a better person. I didn't lie because I no longer wanted to be the type of person who lied. I worked through stuff in therapy because I didn't want to continue with my crappy coping skills anymore.

 

Hope this helps, good luck.

[bigman1]

Broken Man,

 

I have been checking out your threads and I guess that I want to say, I am sorry that you are in this situation. You are really trying hard to understand what is happening in your wife and marriage. Unfortunately, each situation is unique. The common thread is that waywards lie, hide the truth, and pretty much follow the same script when they are trying to continue the affair, avoid the consequences, or avoiding having to face reality. Sadly, the inverse is not true.

 

As you search for answers to questions that you should never have been required to ask, you are going to realize this: you need to focus on you. She can be remorseful for days, but that is not really going to matter in the end. The question is whether YOU can stay in this marriage? Let's put it this way, she can "get it", get remorseful, get apologetic, do all of the so called "right things", and you have to be prepared to ANSWER the question, "was it a deal breaker"?

 

She is a cheater. That is and will always be her. A n alcoholic can be in recovery, but they are an alcoholic. Cheating is worse because alcoholism is a disease. Cheating is a character flaw at the most fundamental level. Whether you understand her or not will not change the fact that YOU have to decide if it is a deal breaker. If she does not want to change, you may still hang on as so many others have. Its a pitiful existence, but for some, they can't let go. Other's reconcile and are just miserable. Their stories are just as horrible. Some leave, are scarred and bitter. Others, focus on themselves, get their minds right and either stay and make it work or leave and make it work. I only see happy stories from those that focus on themselves first.

 

Keep posting and asking questions, but in the end, the issue is: for YOU, is this a deal breaker? if it is, move along. the quicker the better. Stop worrying about her, she needs to be doing all of that. She needs to come to you with answers, solutions, and a willingness to figure stuff out. Even then, it will still be for you decide if it was a deal breaker.

 

A friend's wife cheated on him and he left her. He said that it hurt him deeply. They share custody of the kids, but he has since remarried. he loved his family and his wife. When asked why he did not try to work it out he said, "I could not go to bed with questions about me, her and them, wake up with questions about me, her and them, and have questions popping into my head all the time. I told her that it was over and then got over her." he was telling me that she went bat**** crazy after that. She tried to get him arrested, stalked him, did crazy crap at her kid's school, and went after his new wife. All he does is shake his head and say, "I used to love <ex wife's name> with all of my heart and soul. I've had several chances to absolutely ruin her professionally and even get her arrested. Now, I love my wife with every fiber of my being and I am waiting until my kids are 18 and I never have to see my ex again until the kids get married or something like that. <bigman1>, every time I've looked back, I realize that divorce was the best decision of my life." My point, focus on YOU.

Edited November 18, 2014 by bigman1
CLARITY

[jm2013]

Broken Man,

 

I have been checking out your threads and I guess that I want to say, I am sorry that you are in this situation. You are really trying hard to understand what is happening in your wife and marriage. Unfortunately, each situation is unique. The common thread is that waywards lie, hide the truth, and pretty much follow the same script when they are trying to continue the affair, avoid the consequences, or avoiding having to face reality. Sadly, the inverse is not true.

 

As you search for answers to questions that you should never have been required to ask, you are going to realize this: you need to focus on you. She can be remorseful for days, but that is not really going to matter in the end. The question is whether YOU can stay in this marriage? Let's put it this way, she can "get it", get remorseful, get apologetic, do all of the so called "right things", and you have to be prepared to ANSWER the question, "was it a deal breaker"?

 

She is a cheater. That is and will always be her. A n alcoholic can be in recovery, but they are an alcoholic. Cheating is worse because alcoholism is a disease. Cheating is a character flaw at the most fundamental level. Whether you understand her or not will not change the fact that YOU have to decide if it is a deal breaker. If she does not want to change, you may still hang on as so many others have. Its a pitiful existence, but for some, they can't let go. Other's reconcile and are just miserable. Their stories are just as horrible. Some leave, are scarred and bitter. Others, focus on themselves, get their minds right and either stay and make it work or leave and make it work. I only see happy stories from those that focus on themselves first.

 

Keep posting and asking questions, but in the end, the issue is: for YOU, is this a deal breaker? if it is, move along. the quicker the better. Stop worrying about her, she needs to be doing all of that. She needs to come to you with answers, solutions, and a willingness to figure stuff out. Even then, it will still be for you decide if it was a deal breaker.

 

A friend's wife cheated on him and he left her. He said that it hurt him deeply. They share custody of the kids, but he has since remarried. he loved his family and his wife. When asked why he did not try to work it out he said, "I could not go to bed with questions about me, her and them, wake up with questions about me, her and them, and have questions popping into my head all the time. I told her that it was over and then got over her." he was telling me that she went bat**** crazy after that. She tried to get him arrested, stalked him, did crazy crap at her kid's school, and went after his new wife. All he does is shake his head and say, "I used to love <ex wife's name> with all of my heart and soul. I've had several chances to absolutely ruin her professionally and even get her arrested. Now, I love my wife with every fiber of my being and I am waiting until my kids are 18 and I never have to see my ex again until the kids get married or something like that. <bigman1>, every time I've looked back, I realize that divorce was the best decision of my life." My point, focus on YOU.

 

This stuck out a lot. I wonder how many WWS's go crazy when they realize they can't fix the problems and their spouse no longer wants to be there and there is nothing they can do about it. I have sat back and wondered if my wife would follow suit to your friend's XW. If she did do those things one can sit back and say she most likely did not have much remorse at all for what she did. My wife said some pretty alarming junk in the beginning.

 

"I am the best you will ever have"

"Nobody can love you as much as I"

"Just don't think about it"

"I have forgiven myself"

 

These are things I've heard over the course of the year. To me, a lot of them are alarming coming from the mouth of any WWS. Maybe not the forgiving part. But I think I would have a had time easily forgiving myself while I watch my spouse in torment. How she did this within months of me finding out is beyond me. I do wonder though how many of them go bat crazy when the BS just walks away.

[VeryBrokenMan]

After all, they really start to believe the lies about the marriage and the spouse that they told themselves daily to allow entrance into the affair.

 

This is very insightful. I've become a lot of things after the affair was exposed in her mind, none of which is reality.

 

 

Bittersweetie: I plan to share your post with my wife. Thanks for taking the time to write it.

 

I have been checking out your threads and I guess that I want to say, I am sorry that you are in this situation.

 

Thanks for that and thanks for the advise, I've read it several times now.

 

JM2013: I would guess my wife would go crazy as well. I just hope she does not say some of those things to me.

[elaine567]

I do wonder though how many of them go bat crazy when the BS just walks away.

 

From your point of view as a BS, I am sure it's a nice idea, but it sounds like the stuff of Hollywood movies, the wayward wife gets her comeuppance and spends her life in craziness, misery and poverty, pining for her lost love, and ruing the day she ever ate the forbidden fruit.

 

The reality is that like the rest of us, some will find joy and happiness and some will be unhappy and miserable.

Being a cheater doesn't rule out nor guarantee happiness long term.

[bigman1]

Please don't misunderstand, I don't think the crazy comes from the cheater realizing that they lost a good thing. I think the crazy comes because the cheater is greedy. They want the benefits of marriage and the "perks" of an affair. They are selfish. Once the betrayed decides to get off the crazy train and focus on themselves, the cheater behaves like a spoiled child.

 

I don't think my friend's wife "misses" him. I actually think that the sooner the betrayed stop worrying about how any of this affects the cheater, the better. It is called indifference. Its called moving on. My friend never said that his ex called him and wanted him back. She just became outwardly more of an evil Btch.

 

A cheater was willing to risk the pain and destruction their spouse would feel and risk the marriage. Once the betrayed are willing to lose the marriage and the cheater, then the dynamic changes. The betrayed can actually come out of their own "fog" and see that they don't deserve to be married to a cheater. That is why I say focus on yourself. When you start walking away then you can decide if you should stay. Note, I don't mean that false braggadocio that many betrayed claim, " I could leave and they know it". I actually mean they are walking away. That is when you focus on you. If you can't walk away or won't walk away, then you are going to stay and focus on the cheater. What will they decide? Will they wake up? Will they choose me? Will they leave AP? Will they help me heal? Will they stay faithful? Focus on you and then the question becomes, "Why would I stay? Is this the best I can hope for? Do I want to live this way? How can you convince me to come back? Why should I invest in you again?

 

Still, if your wayward goes crazy, rest assured it is not because of you leaving any more than their cheating was about you. Sorry for the ramble.

[HereNorThere]

Sadly, true remorse matters not. You're looking to get your old life back, to regain your peace of mind.

 

It's not going to happen with her, not now, not ever. What has been seen cannot be unseen. If you remove yourself from the situation,the wound will become a scar, but that's the most you can hope for.

 

It's not over, it never was.

[MuddyFootprints]

"Bittersweetie: I plan to share your post with my wife. Thanks for taking the time to write it. "

 

If both of you are committed to being honest and communicating with each other, if you are both reading, learning, and truthfully examining and discussing the most difficult aspects of your relationships, I think you are making a good start toward a new beginning...whatever that new beginning may be.

 

The fact that you are sharing posts like this with your wife makes me think that she is helping you feel safe with her. Keep that up. And help her to feel safe, too.

[Striver]

There was a lady on here Sophie I believe. She seemed like a true, remorseful WW. I think the guilt ate away at her the first time she was with another man beside her husband. The guilt piled up and drove her to tell her husband. I think that is true remorse.

 

To clarify Sofie's situation, she did not confess, she got caught. Her BH called the hotel room where she and OM were sleeping and OM answered. It seemed like BH already knew at that point through other means anyway.

 

Then Sofie spent a month dithering about how to confess. Then she finally confessed, but it was too late.

 

Sofie has demonstrated true remorse, but it was after the fact. She gets credit from people because even though she was caught, she demonstrated genuine remorse and didn't make excuses, deny, blameshift, etc. that so many others do.

 

I have seen cases where people confess spontaneously, but that's usually for a one-night stand. Anything more, or a EA of any length, they usually have to be caught or they will just try to break it off without telling.

[fellini]

If you want to genuinely understand what makes a WS tick, you are not going to get very far asking BS'S, especially from those who see things in pure black and white.

 

You'll certainly learn things, but not about understanding you wife. It needs to come from her.

 

Why the remorse only after getting CAUGHT? Because that is where remorse ocurrs. Before that, as some indicate, there is possibly some guilt, maybe only confusion, some so called fog. But remorse is not going to begin until the BS or someone important knows.

 

I disagree that the only thing is if this is a deal breaker for you. I think the question is, if it is a deal breaker, when do you intend to implement it. Some people wait and see, some prefer to make their big decisions after three months, some wait years. Some don't wait for the I'm so oo sorry, it's a deal breaker without reflection.

 

If this was the case, you probably wouldn't be asking so many questions.

 

You need to pass through stages. Everyone is telling you that. Of course keep asking questions, but really, if you want to understand the unfaithful and how they tick, you need to visit the OW/OM threads more. You need to hear how the other side justifies, thinks, reasons, doesn't reason, leaps, comits emotional suicide all for a thrill.

[VeryBrokenMan]

if you want to understand the unfaithful and how they tick, you need to visit the OW/OM threads more. You need to hear how the other side justifies, thinks, reasons, doesn't reason, leaps, comits emotional suicide all for a thrill.

 

Thanks for the very good advise.

[Man Mountain Makino]

To clarify Sofie's situation, she did not confess, she got caught. Her BH called the hotel room where she and OM were sleeping and OM answered. It seemed like BH already knew at that point through other means anyway.

 

I'm a complete hardliner with stuff like this, and am not sympathetic to cheaters, but sophies story and evolution moved me and nobody was rooting harder for her than me

 

I don't blame her husband for divorcing, but I still hope they can work it out.

[dragon_fly_7]

There was a lady on here Sophie I believe. She seemed like a true, remorseful WW. I think the guilt ate away at her the first time she was with another man beside her husband. The guilt piled up and drove her to tell her husband. I think that is true remorse.

I remembered that story too but from what I read, the husband already knew about the affair from a while back as he's been tracking her and was preparing to file for divorce. She confessed only after her husband called the hotel she was in to tell her about something else and the OM answered the phone. That doesn't look like a confession to me; she was caught.

A confession to me is when you admit to your wrongdoing even when your partner doesn't know anything about it, there are no chances of others seeing it and you're not just confessing because of fear that you're now going to lose everything when the AP didn't turn out to be the way you thought they would be.

Edited November 23, 2014 by dragon_fly_7

[fellini]

I agree. Sophie's story, as moving as it was, attracted a lot of BS's because she seemed to say the things we all, as BS's wanted to hear. But if you read her story carefully you might also come to another understanding.

 

She got caught out. She did a 180 and spent the rest of her days "proving" her worthiness to her hesitant husband. Much of what she did was what some here call "the heavy lifting". But in fact, one could say she simply invested the same energy that she previously invested in having an affair, into getting her husband back. They say that we BS's can become addicted to the aftermath of an affair. This can happen too to WS's: who become obsessed and addicted to their attempt to right a wrong. Her story to try to win back her husband was epic. No less epic than her attempt to cheat. If her husband was such a great man that he deserved epic attempts to win him back, why did she cut the umbilical cord so quickly in the first place.

 

The thing is, any WS writting his/her life story here in LS that gets as much confirmation/rejection can get as easily caught up in the addiction of the forum as they did in the addiction of the affair and spout out months of appropriate phrases, and genuinely, actually BELIEVE EVERY WORD THEY SAY... just like when they allowed themselves to believe they were "in love". Anyone can write a great melodrama. It's more difficult to believe it.

 

For me, now 18 months post DDay still suffering from a full blown affair and repenting WS the only story that I can genuinely related to is that of DazednConfused from 2004.

 

I remembered that story too but from what I read, the husband already knew about the affair from a while back as he's been tracking her and was preparing to file for divorce. She confessed only after her husband called the hotel she was in to tell her about something else and the OM answered the phone. That doesn't look like a confession to me; she was caught.

A confession to me is when you admit to your wrongdoing even when your partner doesn't know anything about it, there are no chances of others seeing it and you're not just confessing because of fear that you're now going to lose everything when the AP didn't turn out to be the way you thought they would be.

[Friskyone4u]

You are focusing too much on trying to figure out all the why's. That could take a therapist months or years but how about just starting by accepting the obvious. Your wife made a conscious decision to have sex with another man multiple times and you apparently caught her.

ALL WS seem remorseful at first . But for most , it is Regret that they got caught. The remorse comes after they see what it has done to their spouse or family.

You need to concentrate on

(1) is the infidelity over or is it continuing . If it continues the why matters not.

(2) is there transparency. Your WW should want to be bending over backwards to make you feel safe . The means not giving you any bull **** about needing her privacy. Her right to that went out the window when she opened her legs for OM.

(3) are you prepared to accept that your old marriage is officially dead, never coming back, and can you endure years of effort to try to rebuild a new marriage

The facts are, and you can research it all you want, fewer marriages recover when the cheating spouse is the wife. There are many reasons but the facts are what they are. You have to make the decisions d it will be way before you get definitive answers on all the whys.

[fellini]

Suerly the answer to 3 is going to be based on trying to get a WHY? answered. While it may or may not be true what you say about the final outcome of affairs by a WW vs. a WH, it is just as true, that almost 100% of BS's want some key questions answered.

 

It's all part of the process: asking Why and making a decision to give it a go, and the final decision to end it. I think counseling people not to ask why is to circumnavigate an important part of the grieving and recovery process. It's something we must pass through, so that we don't just take the "word" of another BS that its fruitless.

 

 

You are focusing too much on trying to figure out all the why's.

 

(3) are you prepared to accept that your old marriage is officially dead, never coming back, and can you endure years of effort to try to rebuild a new marriage