I can't promise it won't happen again????

[Solcita2]

Don't know if this should go into the second chances or here...

 

I'd write a background post but it'd be endless... but after reading Sofie's post where she says she can't be 100% sure she won't cheat again in the future (even when she greatly regrets doing it and is living the consequences of her affair by losing her marriage) and the conversation I had with my SO today I have this question in mind.

 

SO is a person who loves to help everybody and feel useful. He will always put everybody first and him last. The problem is when you're in a couple, when you put yourself last, you put your SO last as well.

 

Last year he was helping this chick and to my eyes had a EA with her. It all went to hell and we only discuss everything today (I'm living abroad right now and the talk came while organizing his trip to visit me). I was able to ask all the questions I had and I was also able to tell everything I was feeling then and what I still feel today. It was a good talk, open and honest... with no limits at all...

 

I asked why it happened (I was feeling useless and by helping her I felt useful in a long time, I felt NEEDED), why he would say certain things in the dday (he denied any wrongdoing until today), we even talk why by that time he thought he wasn't doing anything wrong but can see the damage it caused today (because there was nothing physical going on, and the helping was innocent)... In dday I said the word BETRAYAL (because of all the lying involved in it) and he took it as an acussation of sexual affair, which it was not... today I was able to explain this better and he understood where I was coming from.

 

I told him the only way our relationship could last is if this never happens again. That now I know myself better and I know what I can accept and cannot accept in a relationship. I'm not saying he can't help anybody in the future, I'm saying that if the helping starts to bother me, it has to end... If a friendship starts bothering me, it has to start having bonderies...

 

He said "but that's who I am... and I can't promise it won't happen again..."

And I said I'm not saying you can't have friends, I'm saying I will say it bothers me once... twice... and then you're out. I promise I won't have the patience I had before.

 

In some point he said that there's a possibility it might happen again, and even when he doesn't want to hurt me the way he did last year, there's always the possiblity of doing so while doing something he finds fullfiling (helping out).

 

At some point he even said he wanted to break up because he didn't want to hurt me anymore...

In the last months we've been away from each other he did talk about breaking up because he wasn't enough for me anymore...

His top priority is not to hurt me or do me any wrong...

 

I was a heartbroken because I thought that it was impossible any like this would happen again after he saw the damage he caused. And also because we do love each other and want to make this work.

But again, I always thought he was biological unable to cause me any hurt or to betray me (I told him this and he said that's impossible and it also applies to me towards him).

 

Let me clarify one thing: helping out is good, but when you're out of the house all the time I'm in the house, then it becomes a problem (as in ALL NIGHT at her house when I'm out of the house working to support the household).

If I ask you to start paying more attention and time with me because I feel left out, and you start lying and lying and keep doing the same thing but behind my back, then it's a problem.

 

Basically this happened because of his middle age crisis, and he said he felt trap and wanted to do anything he wanted and be by himself... not separate from me, but wanted to be able to do things alone, as he was living his life through me at that time.

But if we get married and he moves abroad with me, at least at first I will be his only support here, his life will be through me... what happens if he starts feeling the same way? Will he hurt me even when I'm doing nothing wrong?

 

One curious thing, he told me I was "making it easy for him"... was he expecting a list of rules from now on he could refuse and just break up? The only thing I'm asking he can't deliver... He said he hates and hated the lying and he promised he wouldn't do so anymore...

 

I'm sorry if I didn't explain well... I'm very confused right now...

 

Any thoughts?

Edited December 28, 2013 by Solcita2

[Spark1111]

He needs counseling to understand why the ego validation of being a KISA (Knight in Shining Armor) is stronger than his commitment to you.

 

Doing for others is a wonderful attribute, but in strong marriages it is ALWAYS done together, ESPECIALLY where a member of the opposite sex is concerned, and NO secrets, private convos or visits happen....EVER.

 

unless he understands the cause of his vulnerability and why it empowers him to the extent of EAs possibly progressing to PAs....your relationship will always be vulnerable to the next DAMSEL or DUMSEL in distress.

 

you will always come second.

 

is he in counseling? He should be to understand his KISA syndrome and its origins.

[waterwoman]

IMO KISA syndrome is one of the most damaging things for a marriage. Why? Because it is insidious. Being a helper, a kind-hearted generous man is a good thing, no? Who could object? Only a jealous mean partner who doesn't care about others. No !!! No, no,no! KISAs gratify 2 people's egos - their own and that of the recipient of his emotional largesse and himself. At the expense of his partners. And didxesn't his partner need some TLC and cherishing too? Of course but maybe she doesn't respond with enough pathetic gratitude and worship so the effort is interesting.

 

KISA makes the BS feel unloved and rejected and unimportant.

[ChooseTruth]

If he's not taking new precautions that's a really bad sign. In Sophie's case I see her acknowledging her weaknesses (which we all have) and taking new precautions.

 

I think there's a difference between acknowledging you have a weakness (ok) and doing nothing about it (not ok).

[compulsivedancer]

I read a bit of Sofie's thread, and it sounds like she has some of the fears I had early on. Now I knew I was vulnerable to an A, but wasn't sure how to fix the underlying problems. She does not want to have another A, or think she will, but is still shaken by the past one and unsure how to completely prevent it in the future. In her case, I think she'll get there eventually.

 

As for your BF, if he is NOT taking steps to fix this, it's a losing battle. On the other hand, if he wants to fix it, but isn't sure how, it's still fixable; he'll just need to get some help fixing it.

[beach]

Since he doesn't trust himself enough to KNOW he won't do it again - it means he will do it.

 

He has boundary issues.

 

You should find both completely unacceptable.

[whichwayisup]

His top priority is not to hurt me or do me any wrong...

 

That is not true if you can't promise you that it won't happen again. The guy has boundary issues and can't make rules to live by. This is a deal breaker. If he can't stay faithful to you, want to stay faithful to you and do everything possible so he won't ever betray and hurt you again in that way, then sadly, you may have to walk away. HIS LOSS. Really it is. What a fool he is!!

[tired girl]

Why does he need to feel better about himself by helping other women ? He really needs to figure this out. As long as he has this need he is not a safe partner.

[Solcita2]

Thank you all for your replies. I wrote this last night right before going to bed and the first thing I did this morning was to read your replies before talking to him again.

 

ChooseTruth you read my mind... that's what bothered me... you know there's something wrong with you and you won't try with all your power to prevent that from happening again? WTD F right?

 

So we had a 3 hour chat today. And I feel good...

 

He said I understood everything wrong. He showed more remorse than yesterday (which was a lot already) and he said that what he meant is that he can't promise he won't help anybody else again... he did promise no more lying and to trying harder to keep my feelings in account...

 

The "I can't promise it won't happen again" line made no sense to me because at the same time he was already telling me all the things he wanted to do while being here... he was telling me all those things in advance just to check it wouldn't bother me if he had to go out by himself without me... he even didn't write to let his friends around here to tell them he was coming before asking me if it was ok...

 

The going out by himself thing is meeting old friends (who he helped in the past) to start seeing future and potential jobs... so it makes sense going by himself (I have no intention to go btw).

 

So, basically, we spoke a lot about what we had in mind. I told him that if what he was saying is "I can't promise I won't betray you again" then, I'm done... because i don't want to have a relationship where I have to spy on him just to check if he's lying... I don't want that...

AND he doesn't want that, because even if he's doing nothing wrong I'd be breathing on his neck...

 

So... to make things short, "I can't promise I won't feel like helping again"... and if he did promise that I'd know he'd be lying, so... I like the honesty now.

 

He said there are lots of other stuff to talk about, so we will keep talking tomorrow... but I feel better already.

 

Thank you for all your replies...!!!

[Solcita2]

Why does he need to feel better about himself by helping other women ? He really needs to figure this out. As long as he has this need he is not a safe partner.

 

He doesn't help only girls, this one was actually the first.

 

Before her he helped different members of my family until the extreme of being used by them. I realized that and told him to stop, he didn't at first but eventually did.

[Solcita2]

IMO KISA syndrome is one of the most damaging things for a marriage. Why? Because it is insidious. Being a helper, a kind-hearted generous man is a good thing, no? Who could object? Only a jealous mean partner who doesn't care about others. No !!! No, no,no! KISAs gratify 2 people's egos - their own and that of the recipient of his emotional largesse and himself. At the expense of his partners. And didxesn't his partner need some TLC and cherishing too? Of course but maybe she doesn't respond with enough pathetic gratitude and worship so the effort is interesting.

 

KISA makes the BS feel unloved and rejected and unimportant.

 

I was not aware there was a name for this... I will keep your post in mind... it's hard when we're talking about something that's good for some and bad for others... it'd be easier to deal with something bad... as an adiction... but when we're talking about helping others is a little bit hard, right?

Where is the line?

When is it OK and when it's not?

 

How can you break up with someone you love just because he's too nice?

[beach]

Are you stating that he's promised to change his behavior?

 

What exactly is his plan to carry out his new behavior ?

[Solcita2]

I have to say, I read about the syndrom and it seems so extreme... he is not.

 

He does think about me before making any decision and if there's something that he suspects might make me umconfortable he ask me first or just doesn't do it at all... he checks on my opinion all the time, that's why I didn't understand why he was "warning me" about his nature..

[ChooseTruth]

I'm glad it seems to mostly have been a misunderstanding. I'm still a little worried though. Solcita2, have you heard of the book "Not Just Friends"? That's really what I recommend here. He shouldn't be putting himself on any slippery slope. He needs to keep the appropriate walls up to other women and keep the windows open to you (using the book's terminology).

 

I don't know the extent of "helping people", but you would be a better judge especially after reading the book.

[Solcita2]

I'm glad it seems to mostly have been a misunderstanding. I'm still a little worried though. Solcita2, have you heard of the book "Not Just Friends"? That's really what I recommend here. He shouldn't be putting himself on any slippery slope. He needs to keep the appropriate walls up to other women and keep the windows open to you (using the book's terminology).

 

I don't know the extent of "helping people", but you would be a better judge especially after reading the book.

 

Yes, I knew about the book and I even have it in my wish list on amazon. However I didn't know if it was still necessary... now that you think I should read it, I will... I'll update after reading it

[Steadfast]

He needs counseling to understand why the ego validation of being a KISA (Knight in Shining Armor) is stronger than his commitment to you.

 

I'm a strong proponent of marrieds being independently driven towards their careers and passions. 'To thine own self be true' is wise advice. But these things must remain transparent to the spouse; with even the thought of lying not present. When a person fears the truth being discovered, it is ever something honorable or sincere?

 

I'm calling bad form on his part. His words mean little. Proceed with caution.

[beach]

I'm a person who helps others a lot.

 

While helping - I always know where my boundary is and I stick to it. If what I'm participating in may cause harm to self or others - I'm finished.

 

If I'm there to help - it better not be causing harm to another.

 

If helping is being gone all night and causes you worry - then the help isn't serving its' purpose.

 

If he intends to help - he's got to get specific and clear about what that's supposed to look like.

[Spark1111]

I'm a strong proponent of marrieds being independently driven towards their careers and passions. 'To thine own self be true' is wise advice. But these things must remain transparent to the spouse; with even the thought of lying not present. When a person fears the truth being discovered, it is ever something honorable or sincere?

 

I'm calling bad form on his part. His words mean little. Proceed with caution.

 

I agree. to help someone emotionally or financially without full disclosure to your partner and their full support is a recipe for relational disaster.

 

If you say no and they go ahead and then keep it secret from you, what is the payoff?

 

their ego validation over your feelings.

 

In that case, the smartly partnered person validates themself FIRST, supports their partner secondly.....and all other be damned.

 

and them a card to a counselor or a community outreach program and preserve the primary relationship at all costs.

 

Charity begins at home.

[beach]

Does he work?

 

What was he doing to help her? Be specific.

[Solcita2]

Sounds presumptuous what gives you the right to speak for him?

I'm not sure I understand your question.

 

Because unlike you, this is MY story, not somebody elses... I'm not a watcher here... and I speak with him, and there are thousand of things I didn't tell here, no need to.

I don't have to give you any explanations of why I say he loves me.

 

This thread is not about lack of loving, if you read it you would see the difference... Please, don't bother coming back around here...

[Solcita2]

Does he work?

 

What was he doing to help her? Be specific.

 

He works freelance. By the times this happened he wasn't having much work to do...

 

She was a student from abroad who was having a terrible hard time understanding what she had to do at school because she would miss probably 50% of what was going on in the classroom.

He studied the same career in the same school and he even used to teach there so he knew what was going on.

He helped her through the entire final assigment she had to do... because she was from abroad the working system was very different from ours, so she would mess up and mess up and keep messing up again. If she failed the assigment she would have lost the entire year in our country.