back again - 3 months down the line.

[James-London]

Hi everyone,

 

well, i'm back again. i was on this forum daily in August and September and now I'm back to ask for some more help.

 

Very briefly, I me and my ex are both in our early 30s and we went out together for 1 year and broke up in August 2013. I basically dumped her when I hacked into her FB and found out that she had been having an on/off relationship with a guy pretty much from the start.

 

The last 3 months have been hell. The truth has been coming out in parts and she did all the blame shifting that every post on here seems to talk about. Her big criticism was that I did not see her enough because i was too obsessed with my work. Obviously, that is no excuse for anything.

 

The problem with relationships is that no matter how badly someone behaves, they can always turn around and say that they are sorry that they didn't mean it etc. And then you have the dilemma of whether to forgive or not. The problem is that I have not felt that she was really desperate to get me back until recently. she told me that she did not want to fight for me because that would be too humiliating. I also worry that she has feelings for this other guy, even though she knows he is totally unsuitable for her. She even wanted to protect his privacy when i started asking questions about why she did not feel he is suitable. She is also clearly impressed by this guy and finds him exciting and interesting.

 

I am sure everyone will just tell me to move on and not get back with her.... But my question is - how do you know when it is too late to give someone another chance? In the last few weeks, she has been telling me how she can't stop thinking about me and really wants a chance to make it up to me. She has stopped all the blame shifting and is telling me she is really sorry.

 

The other thing is that after we broke up she finally opened up to me and told me lots of things about her messed up childhood that she does not tell anyone else. I feel that I finally know her... It is just such a shame that I only find out after all this other stuff has happened.

 

I suppose their is a chance she is genuinely sorry (she certainly sounds it), but she cannot undo what is done. Does that mean this is irretrievable? If so, why? And if not, how could she regain my trust? I do fear that i will never trust her again, even if i wanted to.

 

There are two thoughts that I keep on coming back to... Firstly, she promises me that she never had sex with him this year. She admits to sleeping in his bedroom 2 times but says she stayed on the guest's mattress in his bedroom but says nothing happened. My question is - what was she doing sleeping in his room in the first place, even if nothing happened? Secondly, even if it is possible to overlook all the past, she was hardly at my feet begging to be taken back after we broke up. She even talked about us being just friends.

 

I imagine everyone will be telling me to just run and not look back... but the problem is that i love her still, and i feel that she loves me. Or maybe we just need each other, i don't know. i cannot see how this can be fixed and it has been dragging on for 3 months now.... please can someone help me on this? I wish I could just look at the facts and see her behaviour is inexcusable and then just not think about her ever again... but i can't.

 

Thanks for reading.

 

James.

[TobyBoy]

Lots of pretty words....what is she doing to fix her issues?

[Bryanp]

The fact that she said she would not fight for you even though she was completely at fault because it would be to humiliating for her says it all. You just are not that important to her.

 

James time for you to move on and find someone who truly has the capacity to love and respect you unlike this woman.

[karnak]

James... the fact that she had a dysfunctional childhood is no excuse for her cheating or for her to perform bad deeds or abuse upon others.

 

I also come from highly disfunctional and abusive parents. And their upbringing sure gave a lot of issues concerning my mental health. Yet, I never allowed myself to do inflict upon others the type of pain and abuse that had been inflicted on me.

 

I'm recently seeing a girl who survived a vrey troubled childhood (parent's divorce, father's alcoholism, severe health problems, etc). Yet she always managed to keep her ethics value intact and never cheated on her boyfriends. She'd rather release her traumas into sexual lifestyles (bdsm, etc) and other sort of hobbies, rather than allow her "inner demons" to consume her.

 

You're a very smart and rational man, James. You'll reach the better decision for both of you.

[Try]

There are two thoughts that I keep on coming back to... Firstly, she promises me that she never had sex with him this year. She admits to sleeping in his bedroom 2 times but says she stayed on the guest's mattress in his bedroom but says nothing happened. My question is - what was she doing sleeping in his room in the first place, even if nothing happened? Secondly, even if it is possible to overlook all the past, she was hardly at my feet begging to be taken back after we broke up. She even talked about us being just friends.

First, there is no way that she would sleep in the same room, but not the same bed of someone that she as a non-virgin adult has a romantic interest in. The fact that she is still asking you to believe this obvisous lie shows that she still does not respect you enough to tell you the truth. Second, she is still not begging, or accepting full responsibility for her action. Blaming it on her childhood is still blame shifting, just to a different target.

 

Since she is still lying and blame shifting, she is still at her core the same person that cheated on you, and is still fully capable of cheating on you again.

[Artie Lang]

she told me that she did not want to fight for me because that would be too humiliating.

 

this speaks volumes! if it's too humiliating for her to show remorse and guilt for cheating on you, she isn't worth it.

 

 

don't be a fool- MOVE ON!

Edited November 18, 2013 by Artie Lang

[whichwayisup]

NO friendship can happen. Why should she get to keep you in her life as a friend? No way. if she wants you, she can go to counseling and work on herself, show you in actions not just words that she IS worthy of a chance with you.

 

she told me that she did not want to fight for me because that would be too humiliating.

 

Reading that -- So far she's not worthy of you giving her a chance.

 

She's not being sincere, completely honest, humble or really that remorseful. Her ego and not admitting ALL to you is what the problem is. NO way did they sleep in separate beds.

 

Did you ever go talk to this guy?

[Kate9292]

The last 3 months have been hell. The truth has been coming out in parts and she did all the blame shifting that every post on here seems to talk about. Her big criticism was that I did not see her enough because i was too obsessed with my work. Obviously, that is no excuse for anything.

But you said she's your ex now and you broke up with August? So why do you care about any of that?

 

I wouldn't. And I definitely would not fight for someone like that, as much as I believe in working things out.

how do you know when it is too late to give someone another chance?

 

It's not too late. It was never the time to give someone like that even one chance.

[Chi townD]

Dude, really?!?! Cheaters will ONLY admit to the bare minimum to make it seem not as bad as what it truly is.

 

Do you HONESTLY believe that she was over at his place and she slept on the mattress in the spare room?!? Especially (from your original thread) it was discovered that the OM didn't want a relationship with her. He just wanted to sleep with her!

 

Well, she wanted the relationship, therefore, she probably slept with him EACH AND EVERYTIME to keep him interested and MAYBE he would have a change of heart and they would start up a proper relationship. I'm guessing that never happened.

 

Dude, she's lying. Sorry, but I would suggest that you move on from this. She's STILL not being honest with you.

[painfullyobvious]

This sounds an awful lot like my previous relationship many years ago. My girlfriend tried to tell me she stayed at a male friends home on the couch. I happened a couple of times before I knew what was happening. When I asked if I could meet this "friend" excuses were many. I slowly learned the truth they were involved in a physical affair. This whole story stinks and I do not believe it. I believed my girlfriend initially because I loved her as well. Start looking at the situation with your mind instead of your heart.

 

When you are going through what you are going through it feels like no one will ever love you again and that you will never find anyone better or put your internal thoughts for why you should stick with a person who treats you poorly. A person who allows themselves to be treated like garbage gets exactly what they allow. You know you deserve better and will find it after you heal and change your expectations in relationships. That is what happened to me. I got burned really bad, I changed how I let women treat me in relationships and "miraculously" I eliminated a lot of garbage early and often before I got really burned. You can do the same.

 

By the way I have been happily married for many years since that terrible incident...

[harrybrown]

You should run and not look back.

 

Has she been tested for stds? Has she told you the truth? Has she eliminated this OM from her life and is no longer in contact with him?

 

What are her answers to those questions? I do not think you can get the truth out of her. They had sex many times.

 

You should cut her out of your life.

[bubbaganoosh]

Has she done anything to fix her problems? it's one thing to acknowledge she has a problem and another to do something about it. If she hasn't then there's a pretty good chance she will try to rug sweep the whole thing.

 

If it was me, I would move on and find another woman and let her deal with whatever is bugging her. Chances are she will do nothing to change and if it happened once, what's to say it won't happen again.

[Realist3]

Secondly, even if it is possible to overlook all the past, she was hardly at my feet begging to be taken back after we broke up. She even talked about us being just friends.

 

I can't find one thing in your post that would lead me to suggest you should try and stay and work it out. You are whipped and in love with a woman that does not respect you. Move on. This will not end well in your favor.

 

Leave, and if one day she finds her way back to you might have something, but right now you are a doormat.

[James-London]

Hi everyone,

 

Firstly, thank you all for your thoughts on this - I'm grateful. I am aware of all of these arguments on a rational level. The problem is that I still fantasise about taking her out to romantic places and things I would like to tell her etc. In short, I still have feelings for her.

 

In the early emails she was blaming me a lot because I did not see her enough. The reason I did not see her more was mostly because she gave me hardly any affection, she criticised me all the time and she was not supportive with my needs and my issues. Also, she did not prioritise me with her free time - so she would invite me along after she had made plans with other people.

 

My overall view is that she did not take me or our relationship seriously. She was not really committed or prepared to invest or sacrifice very much. For me, her running around with this other guy behind my back was just another part of all that. That was during the relationship. However, since we broke up, I could not feel her really fighting to get me back and there were all the lies too.

 

She wants me to believe that she messed up by sleeping with this guy last year, but this year they were only meeting as friends. However, she also tells me that she found the restaurant meal with him to be a "romantic experience". A few days later she invited him to a late night classical music concert also, and she admits that this was a "mistake".... If they were just friends why was does she see it as a mistake? As I may have said above already, she still has affection for him even now and tries to defend him and protect him.

 

The other thing I suggested was that she calls up this OM while I am in the room and say to him that I suspect that they were sleeping together this year.... I think it would be clear from the OM's response whether they actually were or not. I would like to be in the room or on the phone to hear that response.... I think that is an entirely reasonable request, but I am getting resistance from my ex.

 

In the early emails and calls since we broke up she was blame shifting a lot. However, lately she has been saying sorry a lot more. I don't get why there has been this shift in attitude. It is possible that it has just taken her a while to work out what she has done or maybe to work out what she lost....

 

However, the more cynical answer is that she has recently started to believe the OM now has a girlfriend. She says she believes this because she cannot see him online on Facebook. Why would him not being on FB mean he has a girlfriend? That makes little sense to me. But more to the point - she is clearly looking to see him online every time she goes on FB. So, he's still on her mind.

 

So - my question is - why do I still feel anything for her? I have known all this for nearly 3 months and I still feel angry and upset. I think the reason I am so confused is because I think she is genuinely devastated about how badly she has treated me. The reason we failed was because she would not communicate openly with me, and she seems to recognise this now.

 

During our relationship, I do think she cared about me. She would get very upset when she heard about my work problems. I believe her when she says she felt very lonely with me. however that was mostly because she would not open up to me.... I guess my only reservation is that I feel this may all have been an awful misunderstanding. I think she does find the OM attractive but she says that it is me she really wants.... I don't know how to resolve that one.

 

Going forwards, she says she wants to make things right again. I am a pragmatic guy so this makes some sense to me. However, I still doubt I have all the truth. If this is the entire truth - why has she not tried to get her telephone records to me? Why is she still not going to the therapy I suggested? Why is she not trying to explain to me what she has learnt and why this would never happen again? Why is she still friends with the OM on FB? Why won't she call him with me in the room so I can hear them talking to each other.

 

Please could you let me know your thoughts....

 

Thanks.

[SoulStorm]

Too many "Why's" unanswered. If you give in now, you will definitely regret it. You're plan B. She is putting you as a back up plan because OM is not being who she wants him to be.

 

She is not transparent

She still has feelings for OM

She still protects OM

She's still lying..she slept with him. NO way you have had sex with someone before, still have feelings for them and less feelings for your current partner and not sleep with them..being in the same bedroom. Possible..but unlikely.

She is throwing you bones to keep you on the line.

 

Tread cautiously..keep demanding proof.

[road]

Too many "Why's" unanswered. If you give in now, you will definitely regret it. You're plan B. She is putting you as a back up plan because OM is not being who she wants him to be.

 

She is not transparent

She still has feelings for OM

She still protects OM

She's still lying..she slept with him. NO way you have had sex with someone before, still have feelings for them and less feelings for your current partner and not sleep with them..being in the same bedroom. Possible..but unlikely.

She is throwing you bones to keep you on the line.

 

Tread cautiously..keep demanding proof.

 

 

 

 

 

This BH knows the answers.

 

 

He just has not heard his WW say them.

[Chi townD]

Oh, so she leaves the OM now has a girlfriend? How convenient that she NOW wants to work things out with you!

 

Hi Mr. Back up Plan! How does it feel to be someone's second choice?

[James-London]

Road,

 

I think you have hit the nail on the head. Well - I am almost sure I know the answers anyway. It would be such a weight of my shoulders if I knew the truth. I don't even really care that much if she did carry on sleeping with him or not, I just want to know so I can stop thinking about it.

 

I find her very cruel in the way she is treating me. If she is innocent, she can provide me with telephone records. If I find lots of contact, it will not prove she was sleeping with him. But if there is no contact, that will at least prove that she was not.

 

.... maybe the solution is to look at her as someone who never really loved me or respected me. And then I can see I never lost anything, and even that I managed to dodge a bullet. Its just that my heart is totally convinced that she was confused and lonely and felt neglected by me. There may be some truth in that. But really, she just fancies the OM more and can't admit it to me or herself.

[James-London]

hi Chi Town - well, I take you point. its just she insists she is crazy about me and wants me over him. she says it with such desperation and passion.

 

the telephone records might be helpful, but how can she really prove to me i was plan A?

[drifter777]

hi Chi Town - well, I take you point. its just she insists she is crazy about me and wants me over him. she says it with such desperation and passion.

 

the telephone records might be helpful, but how can she really prove to me i was plan A?

I don't think she can prove it and, more importantly, you can't seriously believe you are now or ever were her plan A.

 

You are love-sick and "over the moon" about this girl and maybe even afraid to face the dating world all over again. It is a sick dependency that most of us have experienced at one time or another. I can't know why you are subjecting yourself to all of this but I think it is very unhealthy for you. You need to be working with an Individual Counselor to find out why you think so little of yourself that you would still be desperately hanging on to such a dead relationship. I would say that your willingness (and desire) to believe she slept on the couch while her affair partner slept in the bed is proof you are deluding yourself about this whole situation. Please go find yourself a counselor and get to work.

[Artie Lang]

you need to be pro-active here. you're basically letting her dictate the terms of reconciliation. if you both have telephone accounts under the same plan, you should be the one to retrieve the call logs. stop letting her know your next move. i can almost bet she's been in contact with this scumbag and they're both getting their stories together so you won't blow up their little fantasy world.

 

stop being a doormat! take back control of this situation and blow this thing up.

 

 

you've got to willing to lose it all, in order to save this thing(marriage)..... remember that!

[beach]

Road,

 

I think you have hit the nail on the head. Well - I am almost sure I know the answers anyway. It would be such a weight of my shoulders if I knew the truth. I don't even really care that much if she did carry on sleeping with him or not, I just want to know so I can stop thinking about it.

 

I find her very cruel in the way she is treating me. If she is innocent, she can provide me with telephone records. If I find lots of contact, it will not prove she was sleeping with him. But if there is no contact, that will at least prove that she was not.

 

.... maybe the solution is to look at her as someone who never really loved me or respected me. And then I can see I never lost anything, and even that I managed to dodge a bullet. Its just that my heart is totally convinced that she was confused and lonely and felt neglected by me. There may be some truth in that. But really, she just fancies the OM more and can't admit it to me or herself.

 

She is being cruel. That's enough to understand she's just simply not nice. Not respectful - and doesn't think of how YOU must feel knowing she spent the night with him. Who cares what story she made up - no woman spends the night without intent to have things happen.

 

And she is acting like a complete jerk.

 

Spending one more second considering her is just completely wasting your time and energy.

 

She's mean. I highly doubt her traits are what you imagined in the woman you would spend the rest of your life with.

[Untouchable_Fire]

she told me that she did not want to fight for me because that would be too humiliating.

 

and i feel that she loves me. Or maybe we just need each other, i don't know

 

These two statements are incompatible. If she really loves you then nothing would stop her from trying to rebuild the relationship.

 

You don't need her. Are you going to let her waste another 3 months of your life... or maybe 3 years down the road find out she is cheating again?

 

She doesn't love you. She has proved that in both word and deed. It's time to move on and find someone who actually cares about you!

[Acacia98]

Very briefly, I me and my ex are both in our early 30s and we went out together for 1 year and broke up in August 2013. I basically dumped her when I hacked into her FB and found out that she had been having an on/off relationship with a guy pretty much from the start.

In other words, you and your ex never really were in a full-fledged relationship. You were just under the impression you were.

The last 3 months have been hell. The truth has been coming out in parts and she did all the blame shifting that every post on here seems to talk about. Her big criticism was that I did not see her enough because i was too obsessed with my work. Obviously, that is no excuse for anything.

Ok, first of all, she didn’t even give you a chance to ‘see her enough,’ seeing as this other guy has been in the picture from day one. Secondly, even if it was true that you were a workaholic and were neglecting her, the proper response would have been to break up with you if it was a deal-breaker.

I suppose their is a chance she is genuinely sorry (she certainly sounds it), but she cannot undo what is done. Does that mean this is irretrievable? If so, why? And if not, how could she regain my trust? I do fear that i will never trust her again, even if i wanted to.

You need to separate the act of forgiving her from that of getting back together with her. Those are totally separate things. You can have the first without the second, and that would be perfectly ok.

I imagine everyone will be telling me to just run and not look back... but the problem is that i love her still, and i feel that she loves me. Or maybe we just need each other, i don't know. i cannot see how this can be fixed and it has been dragging on for 3 months now.... please can someone help me on this? I wish I could just look at the facts and see her behaviour is inexcusable and then just not think about her ever again... but i can't.

It is hard to stop obsessing about somebody you love. So you need to make it easier for yourself. What you need to do is to go NC so that she’s not actively present in your life. Then you need to focus your energy 100% on you. You’ve been hurt and you need to heal. You also need to understand yourself, your motivations, and what’s right for you. And you need to learn how to make healthier choices for yourself. Once you are able to do these things, then you can reconsider the role that this woman can play in your life.

I think she also needs to do the same thing. She sounds like a confused person who never really took time off from dating between relationships. She may very well be scared of being single. So she actually needs to devote some time to being single and to reflecting on herself and on the choices she makes. She needs to figure out what she really wants out of life and where you fit in that picture (if at all). The two of you are not going to be able to do this honestly if you are in each other’s faces, making demands of each other. So the best thing that you can do for each other right now is to come to an agreement that each of you will take the time to heal and to grow alone and, after a predetermined period of time, to sit down and talk about what you want.

[Mickey_Fitzpatrick]

she finally opened up to me and told me lots of things about her messed up childhood that she does not tell anyone else.

 

James, I went out with my fair share of girls and young women with "messed up" childhoods. A general rule I developed: JUST DON'T. You can't fix her, and you can't rescue her. You will not be able to lift her up, she will just drag you down. Look at some of the threads here, where some posters got seriously involved or married to people with "childhood issues," and all the anguish and heartache they have in their marriages.

 

James, let me guess, you find her to be physically very attractive. Because the liar you are describing must be pretty on the outside, she certainly does not sound pretty on the inside.

 

James, she is throwing you a few crumbs and you are so excited. She told you she wants another chance, she even shared her messed up childhood with you, and these little crumbs have made all the difference, despite the obvious nonsensical story she continues to tell about sleeping with the guy while you were exclusive with her last year, going on romantic dates with him this year, but only "sleeping in separate beds in his bedroom" this year.

 

Go out and find another girl to be madly in love with, James. This one is nothing but heartache for you.

 

On the other hand, if you want to give her another chance, it is your life, and being young and single, the only one you will be hurting is yourself.