How weird am I? Is there any point to what I am doing?

[quietstruggle]

Ok. I cannot even imagine this as part of some bad novel. It is my life. This isn't a woe is me. Just, my honest assessment of my situation. Married 7 years, 3 children, first child was born 9 months after marriage. Allegedly conceived on the honeymoon. In actuality, conception occurred days before the marriage with one of her co-workers. A few years later (read as a few affairs later) during the third pregnancy, I uncovered she was in the middle of an affair while pregnant. So, to recap, child #1, not mine. #2 & #3 are mine. Adore all three. While dating my wife and during the first 2 years of the marriage, I did not know that love could be so fulfilling, it was only after finding out that it was an orchestrated daily lie that I was living that I slowly sank into a deep depression.

 

Not sure how I functioned or made my way out. I am out of it. I am stronger but still struggling. So... 3 years later, she is still having the affair that she was having when she was pregnant with # 3. She loves him, I am nothing to her, she lies to both of us. It isn't just the sex or the danger, she gets off on lying to everyone. She pretends we have this wonderful family and she loves me. She lies to everyone she knows. Family, friends, co-workers, etc. She lies to him as well. She needs to live a dual life. If that is threatened she is absolutely uncontrollably insane.

 

And...so....why am I still with her? Why do I put up with this? Do I love her? Am I crazy? Hmmm... good questions. I think I know the answers to these and I am glad to share and very open to criticism, questions and comments. Here is what I am looking for...Do I continue? Do I work toward forgiveness?

 

Ok, I am with her because I can't leave the children with her. Even if I get custody, I can't keep her from having them for visitation. If I open up to the world the facts of what she is, she would unhinge and I can't live knowing that there would be times that my children would be in jeopardy. I also stabilize her. She is more sound with the structure I provide and actually aside from the false relationship we have a happy functioning family. That means something to me.. I value it. And I did love this woman, I would take no joy in harming her emotionally, regardless of what she has done to me. That I guess answers the first 2 questions I posed in the paragraph above. No, I don't love her. Too painful. I am not crazy. I am in a situation, I am patient, kind, loving, strong and sane. I am uncomfortable, lonely, occasionally sad, busy, friendly, sometimes angry, and sane. So there are short answers to the next few questions I posed above.

 

Any thoughts regarding:

 

Do I continue? Do I work toward forgiveness?

[ChooseTruth]

Sorry for this horrible situation. Many of us have been hurt by betrayal though I can't speak for raising another man's child, I almost went there but didn't happen.

 

I think most will tell you to leave...but my question is how are you doing now? What do you want to do? How are the kids now? How are you around them? How long will you be sane in this situation?

 

So far I think she will just continue what she's been doing. You've taught her its ok. You'll have to lay down the law to get her to stop, file for divorce, tell everyone why. That will make the affair a whole lot less fun. Mean it when you say you are divorcing, but if she starts doing everything she should, then you can go back on it.

 

She should never have contact with these guys again, be completely transparent and honest with you no matter how scary, show remorse and love, go to counseling..

 

From what I'm hearing though, I predict the marriage is finished, unless somehow you can tolerate what is going on, but I don't guess you will be able to do that forever. Or maybe taking decision action will get her to respect you again. Could happen.

[beach]

I'm sorry you're in this pain.

 

How can you forgive when she's not sorry. And she not stopping it.??

 

Can you stay but agree to an open M so you can find a woman who may agree to these odd terms?

 

Can you make new agreements with her based in knowing you intend to stay but know she won't be faithful?

 

Have paternity tests been done or are you guessing?

 

Have you done counseling to seek help?

[Mickey_Fitzpatrick]

Have you talked to her about her cheating?

 

Or does she think she is fooling you?

 

Do you have sex with her?

 

Since you seem to be "in" on her inner thought processes, what is her long-term plan?

 

What does other man want out of this situation?

[dichotomy]

If I understand what kind of person your wife is - you kids - and what you’re dealing with -that a divorce now will plunge the kids into hell with her as the unstable mom - here are my two cents are bellow

 

Short answer- divorce when the kids are old enough to deal with her becoming unhinged. You don't say what ages they are.

 

Long answer - you need to start the process of planning for a future without her, this may mean any number of things from money moves, to detaching yourself emotionally or sexually from her - beginning to explore a new life on the side - essentially shifting to a roommate’s thing. Consult a lawyer. Document everything you have on her affairs and behavior, emails, texts, names, dates, and so on. Also let’s forget you and your wife for a second - the oldest deserves to know her DNA lineage. I assume before you spill the full beans to this child you will do a paternity test and if proven - you will state as strongly and clearly as possible that your consider yourself her dad, and will this will never change for you - but she has a right to know - her bio dad and his side of the family may have legacies such as medical issues, or others that she should know.

 

I am sorry for this - I sense in your post you are between a rock and a hard place. I assume you have tried marriage therapy? It sounds like she is mentally ill, or simply not capable of being monogamous.

Edited November 17, 2013 by dichotomy

[Speakingofwhich]

I hope you will get into IC and work through this situation.

 

My concern for your children is that by living in a lie (that your home is a happy functional one) they are learning to live a lie themselves.

 

Even if children don't know factually that infidelity is taking place they do pick up on some level the subtleties of infidelity that are around them. You can't keep it from them. Speaking from experience of growing up in a situation where a parent believed us kids didn't know As were happening.

 

Your W's cheating does affect the dynamics of your marriage and family life even if you believe you have things under control.

 

Possibly your children will be hurt either way, if you stay or go. Possibly six of one situation, half a dozen the other.

 

But, if you leave, they will learn it's important to live with integrity and self respect as you will be modeling this behavior for them. Especially if you leave while practicing kindness and decency toward their mother.

 

I truly believe leaving your W would be what is best for her, personally, too. She's a broken and confused person and may need to hit rock bottom before realizing she needs help.

 

I'm trying to remember if you mentioned in your post whether or not you've confronted your W about her infidelities. If you haven't perhaps you should do so, possibly in MC.

 

However, I would most def do the things (documentation of As, etc.) dichotomy suggested to prepare for a possible D.

[janedoe67]

You say you have been married seven years and have three kids, so that would make your oldest 7.

 

I am so so sorry you are in such a terrible situation. Your wife sounds....well, mentally ill, and I do not use that phrase lightly ever. Mainly because I think people banty around internet diagnosis out of laziness most of the time. But THIS is not garden variety.

 

I would do what was advised about about starting to plan. Can you document some of this behavior also, especially if she is doing things that directly hurt the kids (and A hurts them terribly, but a court probably won't see t that way). Best case scenario, if she is that unstable and risk-oriented, she may have supervised visitation? At least that would be the case in a fair world.

 

There is a site that advocates for father's rights, but for the life of me I don't know what it is called. Do some searching, or maybe someone here will know. It sounds like if you do leave you absolutely MUST have primary custody.

[Mcle]

Look up the bar association in your state. If you go online you should be able to get a list of certified family law specialists. Choose a couple that offer free consults and go. DONT TELL HER YOU ARE DOING THIS. Stop sleeping with her. Find a counselor for yourself. Don't tell her about that either. Since she clearly does nt care about your best interests or the kids you will have to do so. You will need help as if she is as crazy/unstable as it sounds she will likely try to destroy you once she realizes she cannot control you.

[bubbaganoosh]

Your not going to do anything but make it worse (and I can't think how much more it can get) if you don't stop making excuses for her.

 

Your living your life just for her needs and lets face it, she doesn't care one bit about yours.

 

You CAN divorce her and YOU CAN have a relationship with your children and chance are get custody.

 

Your mistake was not divorcing her when you found out that child #1 wasn't yours and as long as you live under her thumb and keep making excuses for her, your in for a real long miserable life. I urge you to reconsider and move on. You need to have a life and you can still be a good father to your kids.

[Grumpybutfun]

 

Do I continue? Do I work toward forgiveness?

 

How can you work towards forgiveness when she isn't asking for it? She is fine the way things are, she gets a façade marriage and sex partners to give her validity as a single woman. Serial cheaters feel entitled and you are giving in to that entitlement she demands.

 

Why you stay is beyond me because my children would not be exposed to subterfuge and duplicity like this nor would they be raised thinking it is okay to treat someone else like dirt. Do not think they are not aware, as that is the first things a child development course would enlighten you on. Children know.

 

You need to figure out why you like this situation because if you disliked it, you wouldn't be there. If you weren't getting something out of it, you would have left a long time ago.

 

Grumps

Edited November 18, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Collaborative response retained.

[quietstruggle]

Thank you for your thoughts. I found your thoughts the most helpful.

[Spark1111]

Your wife sounds personality disordered and those are very, very hard to treat clinically, let alone divorce yourself from. They do not divorce well at all.

 

Your instinctual fears for your children should not be denied as I think your gut is telling you truth.

 

the unstable can be horrific abusers when abandoned and her rage may be taken out on your children in many forms. The first may be to have them hate you.

 

I think you should, carefully and quietly begin to document, with as much evidence as you can muster, all that you live at her hands: Her affairs, reactions, moods, outbursts, pathological lying, etc.

 

I think you should also see an IC under the guise of sadness....Perhaps, in time, your IC knowing the truth, may be able to have her come in under the guise of helping you.

 

Please speak with an attorney also to see how and under what conditions, you would be granted sole custody of your children.

[velvette]

When you say she is uncontrollably insane.......does that mean to the point she could be committed if for nothing else to create a paper trail?

 

Are there any family members stable enough to confide in and get help?

 

Do you have any clue what is at the root of all this behavior?

 

I think you've gotten a lot of good advice, but I think you are going to need the help of professionals.

[quietstruggle]

Ok. Thanks to everyone so far. I think that everyone was trying to be as helpful as they could. I appreciate that. A lot of people focused on the idea of divorce or leaving. Ok, not really what I am looking for. I guess I dropped the ball as I posed the question. Here are some answers to some questions.

 

Grumpybutfun - No, I don't enjoy this at all. In any way shape or form. The thought of what has occurred in my life and that anyone could violate someone like I have been plunged me into a depression, which I did get unmedicated help for. I am stronger but struggling. I do stay for the safety and mental health of my children and to a degree for her. I get nothing from this except that I know my children are safe. Several have mentioned that she might be insane. They get it. You don't. Ok.

 

Serial cheaters may feel entitled but I am "giving in" to nothing. She lies to everyone and cheats. That is her character flaw, not mine.

 

Forgiveness is given by someone, it doesn't have to be received to be given. It doesn't have to be asked for to be given. It doesn't have to be wanted to be given. If I were looking for reconciliation, I imagine it would be a necessary step on both of our parts to achieve something healthy. She would ask I would grant it. If its even possible. Obviously that isn't the situation I am seeking, nor is it possible. I posed the question regarding forgiveness to examine how to accomplish it and its benefits for me and my situation or my family. I have been over the idea of forgiving her without her asking for it and read quite a bit about forgiveness as a part of it. This is not the worst thing in the world no matter how bad it makes me feel. There is much worse out there. However, I am not someone that can forgive well under the best circumstances. Forgiveness is the hardest thing for a person to do in my opinion, even when everything is conducive to successfully forgiving someone. I don't have much in my situation that is conducive to forgiving her. So, I guess I posed the initial questions to get responses to help me explore how to do that. How to forgive, and explore the potential benefits. Being viewed as a saint isn't one of them. I am not a selfless person, but I am also not selfish.

 

Ok...other answers to questions posed.

 

Sex:

Not often. I don't initiate it. It happens, can't even say monthly, generally speaking it is something we both avoid.

 

Documentation/Proof:

DNA test. Failed lie detector test. Audio and video of affair. Diaries with supporting information. Audio of insane tirades. This has been going on for 3 years. I found out on a hunch, and got audio. Then lie detector and then video. I think if a divorce was all I wanted, I have what I need. Safety of my children is not something I can gamble with.

 

Attorneys:

I am good friends with several attorneys. This is the least of my issues.

 

Counseling:

She won't do it, tried at first and then she figured out that even a ****ty counselor knows she is full of ****. So, she doesn't have anywhere to hide and goes nuts. I have been for my own mental health when I feel I need it.

 

If I didn't answer your question its because I didn't see it or it didn't deserve an answer. Some were just a little too obvious to even qualify as a legitimate question.

 

Thanks again. I hope I qualified my thoughts on forgiveness. While I hope that no one ever has gone through what I am going through, I know that there is worse. I am hoping to find someone who has more insight on forgiveness than I do.

[whatatangledweb]

I understand why you want to forgive. It is for you to heal. I read up alot on forgiveness as I, like you, have a very hard time forgiving someone. I think where you will get stuck is that when you forgive someone it is for a past hurt. Trying to forgive someone while they are doing the same thing is just not possible to me. I think everyone answering you has empathy for you and they are trying to help. I wish you the best with dealing with it. I'm am truly sorry for your pain.

[velvette]

I think it would be hard to forgive behavior if you are still being subjected to it.

 

The only think I can think of to compare that to is say caring for a parent who berates you daily because they have dementia or alzheimers. But, in that case you know its unintentional and they cant help themselves.

 

If you intend staying, perhaps a more worthwhile goal would be how you can shore up all your resources/defenses to endure this type R without destroying yourself.

[quietstruggle]

I agree with you in a sense. For me forgiveness for ongoing or past hurts are just about the same. I am not one that can let things go. I may not show it outwardly but I continue to hold onto negative thoughts, hurt feelings, etc. although I don't display it or discuss it. So, I guess that is why I am even considering forgiving ongoing hurt. It isn't that different than past hurt in my mind. There is obviously a difference and the hope of reconciliation could exist if this were some kind of past hurt. But I am not looking for reconciliation. I don't expect this to absolutely heal me either. I really would like to lighten the load. To be able to look at her, and others and not have this in me.

 

On occasion I have noticed that I can let what might have harmed me previously simply flow around me and not really touch me. But that isn't really forgiveness either.

[harrybrown]

Confront her with the proof that you have, regarding your oldest.

 

Affairs thrive in secret. Expose to the whole world. You will not be able to handle this for very much longer. Your children need at least one parent in their life that can be there for them.

 

What happens to your children when you can not keep it together?

[velvette]

Honestly, I cannot fathom staying in your situation and I would be focusing everything on getting out of it.

 

But, I'm also not entirely clear on what your goal is. Can you articulate that? It is sometimes easier to get to where we want to be if we know what that destination looks like.

 

If you plan to stay until your kids cannot be harmed by your W, then perhaps a more reasonable goal is indifference to her antics rather than forgiveness.

[uneasyandalone]

Obviously you can not love this woman for who she is.

Have you considered that some of us can and need to love more than one person. She may only be "crazy because she cannot fit in to societies mold"

 

We are not all wired the same. I am in a good marriage 14 years with a man I love more than myself but am contemplating either divorce or suicide because I cannot love just one person. Nor can one person love me enough to make me satisfied. I have not broken my vows but wish I had never made them.

 

As much as I want this wonderful man in my life forever I feel I am being untrue to myself living this way just because societies programing says anything else is wrong. I imagine there are many others out there like myself driving ourselves insane trying to be what we are not.

 

I hope you and your children, and your wife can find some peace.

Keep in mind most of us make these society directed decisions to marry well before we know who we truly are. We sign on thinking this is the way everyone is only to find out years down the road that no matter how hard we try we are not like everyone else.

[Mr. Lucky]

Sex:

Not often. I don't initiate it. It happens, can't even say monthly, generally speaking it is something we both avoid.

 

Have you ever discussed, if not an open marriage, some other type of unconventional marital arrangement with her? You might live together as roommates but have separate lives otherwise. Since she seems to already be doing this, would this work for you ???

 

Mr. Lucky

[Confusion_Reigns]

They're now 19 &16 and things never ever get any easier. Never. You just get more and more numb. I'd say no, don't stay for that reason. Use the legal system and everything you have to keep your kids legally safe. It's a much better use of your time and energy.

[drifter777]

I agree with you in a sense. For me forgiveness for ongoing or past hurts are just about the same. I am not one that can let things go. I may not show it outwardly but I continue to hold onto negative thoughts, hurt feelings, etc. although I don't display it or discuss it. So, I guess that is why I am even considering forgiving ongoing hurt. It isn't that different than past hurt in my mind. There is obviously a difference and the hope of reconciliation could exist if this were some kind of past hurt. But I am not looking for reconciliation. I don't expect this to absolutely heal me either. I really would like to lighten the load. To be able to look at her, and others and not have this in me.

 

On occasion I have noticed that I can let what might have harmed me previously simply flow around me and not really touch me. But that isn't really forgiveness either.

You are a lot like me in the forgiveness category so I recommend that you read the book "How Can I Forgive You?" by Janis Abrahms Spring. You might find it comforting to understand that having trouble forgiving your wife in your situation is understandable. After all, she's done nothing to earn it and shows no sign of remorse.

 

I don't think you are looking for advice right now regarding how to deal with your wife's cheating. You seem to have accepted that this is who she is and it has nothing to do with you. Like you, one reason I stayed with my cheating wife is that I did not want her raising our son on her own. I strongly believed it would be bad for him in many ways. I couldn't let that happen without at least trying to accept what she did and hope that time would heal my wound. It worked to the extent that I managed to bury my feelings and pretended to have a good marriage. Like you, I was willing to give up my life for my child - although I know now it was a huge mistake. I know I could have been a great father and provided him with all the security and support he needed without having to live with his mother. I just didn't know it then and will regret my decision for the rest of my life.

 

It doesn't sound like you have sat down with anyone and talked about your situation. I never did either. In my case I was too ashamed of my wife's slutty behavior along with the fact that I stayed with such a whore to open up to anyone. I cannot imagine how I would have felt if it turned out my son wasn't mine. I would have had nothing to live for and would have probably committed suicide. If you ever think about hurting yourself you must get help ASAP. Your kids need you all the more because it sounds like your wife has some kind of mental illness and is not capable of raising them on her own.

 

If you are determined to stay then it's up to you to figure out just how much you can take without collapsing from the weight of her betrayal, her inability to be truthful, and the depth of your own shame. A counselor should be able to help you decide what you can live with - at least at this point in time. If you aren't seeing a counselor then that is your first order of business. You need help and support and someone you can open up to.

 

I think I know what I would do in your situation but that does you no good. I do know that you wouldn't be posting here if you thought you could just keep living with all of this. You have so much bulls*it to deal with I'm sure you don't even know where to start. I recommend you start with taking care of yourself - in counseling - so you can do what's best for you and your kids.

[Grumpybutfun]

Grumpybutfun - No, I don't enjoy this at all. In any way shape or form. The

thought of what has occurred in my life and that anyone could violate someone

like I have been plunged me into a depression, which I did get unmedicated help

for. I am stronger but struggling. I do stay for the safety and mental health

of my children and to a degree for her. I get nothing from this except that I

know my children are safe. Several have mentioned that she might be insane.

They get it. You don't. Ok.

 

I do get it. You have accepted she is a cheater and duplicitous and you have martyred yourself for your children. You are merely seeking clarification on how to forgive her, and I am saying she isn't asking for it and if you want to give it, you have to do so knowing that it changes nothing about your situation. You enable your wife to continue her behaviors so you are part of the problem, a problem which your children have front row seats to.

 

Staying in an unhealthy and volatile marriage for the children is your move and if that makes you happy, then do so, but don't pretend that you can possibly forgive someone who continues to betray you and your children. Also, don't think that just because you can see your children that the tension in the home is not hurting them, or if your wife is insane she can't harm them even with you around. I just do not see this as ending well mainly because your children are so exposed to your wife's tumultuous behavior.

 

Modifying your behavior when you are doing nothing wrong in order to be accepting of her behavior because you are afraid she is insane seems rather pointless. You cannot heal if you are still in the middle of the war, and you are in a war.

 

Best,

Grumps

Edited November 19, 2013 by Grumpybutfun

[Mcle]

In your situation you do not need to concern yourself with forgiveness. Some things are unforgivable and it is not like she is sorry and begging for forgiveness.

 

You are staying for the kids and obviously have made that choice after much thought. Personally, I think the choice is understandable in your situation unless you could be assured full custody.

 

Instead of forgiveness maybe focus on acceptance? Accept who your wife is and the situation you are in as best you can and that may bring you some peace. Good luck.