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Why won't she do things with me she did with OM?


compulsivedancer

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compulsivedancer

This is inspired by a post on another thread, from Dichotomy:

 

One of the things I struggle with years later with not fully reconciling, as BH, is the sex thing.

 

My logical side understands that many married couples go through ups and downs and argue about sex not being what it used to – but toss in affair and perhaps as Road mentioned early (that it was great and intense sex) – and you struggle not to throw affair back in WS face when it’s been two months without a BJ (sorry to be crude) or WS says they don’t like doing it anymore.

 

What then is forced on me as BH – is the struggle to separate the two issues – and focus on OUR sex life and not their sex life – but darn it I struggle when we hit these long stretches of subpar sex not to say “you used to love doing XXX for OM/MM but not me your own husband any more” ... in stead of the healthier "hey how can we get our sex life instense again- i am hurting with this dry spell"

 

Of course we can compare with non sexual items – say if a WH took his AP out for nice dinners or always texted her back immediately, or in other ways was more giving/attentive/responsive to AP then spouse. Even if the WS tries for a while to provide “that stuff” to BS – when it goes away or is not given – the WS gets angry again.

 

H recently told me that since I did anal sex with OM, if he's ever interested, he expects me to do it with him. I am not excited by this prospect. Let me explain.

 

H and I had tried this twice ever, but neither of us got much out of it. I did it with OM 3 times, and enjoyed it to some extent, but preferred the "normal" sex (is there a nice colloquial way to say "normal sex"? Everything is either lewd or formal :p ). The third time, I told him I didn't want to, and we ended up stopping. Ultimately, I decided that anal sex is not for me. But now I'm expected to do it with H whenever he wants it (thankfully, he is not really into this).

 

A little extra context: If you remember, H and I were talking about exploring an open marriage before the A. One of the main reasons, for me, was that I wanted to try some new things, including a few less "traditional" things.

 

Anyhow, the point is, the A was exploratory. There were a few things I did with OM that I really liked. H knows about them and we have incorporated them into our sex life. There were a few things I did with OM that I didn't like, and I have no interest in doing them with H. But now H expects them...forever...for as long as we're married...because I did them a couple/few times with OM.

 

There were things that I was willing to do with H at the very beginning of our relationship that I wasn't necessarily as willing to do later on. The whole A was a beginning-stage relationship, doubly so, since I was in exploratory mode.

 

Anyway, Dichotomy, and anyone else who wonders about this, I hope that's a least a little helpful. (And I hope that wasn't TMI/too graphic).

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compulsivedancer

I actually wanted to do a threesome with OM, but since I knew H really wanted to try one, I told him that if I did one, it would be with H. (When we were still discussing open relationships, I think OM was hoping it would lead to a threesome with me and his GF).

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I actually wanted to do a threesome with OM, but since I knew H really wanted to try one, I told him that if I did one, it would be with H.

Interesting that you'd disrespect someone at the level which infidelity implies but retain enough consideration to reserve certain activities only for him? I don't get it...

 

Mr. Lucky

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There isn't much my wife and i have not done and places including high risk, like getting caught and a fine attached but short of group sex or pain.

 

My wife is/was a bit of a prude, but she has always been open to trying but not the driver of it all. I used to have a joke via the way she was raised that "F'ing through a sheet hole is not going to cut."

 

If it were me and both of your cases I doubt i would take you back, but If i did... I would expect what you did and more with OM. It's simply a violation of sexual sharing and mind games of what I could have but did not. So if denied, i would have issues with you.

 

I know i will get flamed but who cares, I have a point to the following.

I know to many but not all women this comes off as shallow... the mantra of "men are just dogs or pigs and want nothing more than sex"... present posters the exception as both coolit and dancer at least admit to sexual exploration. To me sex is far from shallow and is the hole point whether one wants to admit it or not. I don't talk much about EA's because to me they don't exist, the are simply an A that was stopped before getting physical or if the intention was to have a sexual fantasy without touching than that to me is far from an "emotional" share. The point was to have sex but in a different manner. I don't buy into all of this, "he/she said nice things to me" but oops I fell on his penis... Sex was the intention, you just wanted a dance first.

 

I digress a bit but stated what i did to reinforce the importance sexual exploration is and that not doing something with your H that you did with your OM at least in my opinion is a no no.

 

Now as for not liking something, delineations need to be made, i may not like something but love my wife enough to do it or wear it. That however is a clear distance from say a threesome with my wife and another man, there is no way in hell i would do that but i would with my wife and another women. Hypocritical, Macho you say!? I don't care, no other man is allowed period. Now if that makes a threesome with another women out of question for my wife then so be it, we will have to explore in other ways.

 

So dancer just make sure there is a difference between not liking and something you just feel is a violation or an absolute no. Having already done something with your OM that you change your mind on... hmmmm. LIke i said, i would have issues with you.

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Interesting that you'd disrespect someone at the level which infidelity implies but retain enough consideration to reserve certain activities only for him? I don't get it...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

They were starting an open relationship but her H backed out at the last minute allowing to a degree sexual tension to mount. Dancer's cheating stems from her H saying no and doing it anyway. But her threesome comment is relevant to when she and her H discussed open relationships.

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I feel like context is missing. Your H approved of you messing around? That doesn't qualify as an affair.

 

No her H backed out at the last minute but they discussed it and made plans sort of if i recall but in the end her H said no and she did it anyway.

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Uhh.....you cheated on your husband, and your husband wants to do things that the OM did but you wont let him?

 

uh..........you sound like a pretty amazing wife.

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Would you allow your husband to have anal sex with another woman? Would you allow him to catch up to you, a hall pass to equalize the imbalance your affair created if you won't give your husband the same consideration you gave to O/M? By saying no to your husband you are still putting O/M ahead of your husbands needs, your telling your husband that O/M fantasy's still takes precedence over his. I can't tell you the further damage you will do to your relationship if you again reject your husband knowing you were more than willing to do it for O/M multiple times.

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Betrayed&Stayed

My issue is that over the years I've been turned down when initiating sex. There's a litany of excuses from my wife: I'm too tired, I'm too cold, the kids are awake, I don't feel sexy right now, I'm too this, I'm too that.

 

I realize that this is normal and expected. If there was no affair, then this would likely be a non-issue for me. However, the affair does have an impact on my mindset. If we hit a dry spell I can't help but think "you weren't TOO MARRIED to have sex with OM". When the emotions were raw after D-day the internal voice was more of "maybe I should call OM and ask him how to get in your pants".

 

I understand that it is not fair to her, but it is the reality of the situation. Now it's not so much of an issue, but the thoughts are still there as a BH. It's a natural consequence of my wife choosing to screw another man.

 

For men, I think this is a common response/trigger. So, yeah, I can relate to your husband.

Edited by Betrayed&Stayed
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We had the same discussions after D-day, I guess it's quite common, especially for betrayed husbands to have these feelings.

 

The rational part of me says that of course it's up to you to decide what you wanna participate in and what not - at any time. In reality as well, you decide for yourself. There's also the possibility that you do something with H that you really don't like, but give in to just to please him. Add to that that you may have learned that it wasn't that great to do. And of course I wouldn't want to do anything that I knew would hurt her, it's supposed to be a joyfull experience to both. That was the rational part of me.

 

The emotional part of me however, would divorce you in an instant in the case you refer to in OP. I would feel that I was being put in the category labelled "not-important-enough-to have-anything-but-OM-leftovers" and that you reserved this thought, experience and brain space just for OM. I don't think I would be able to reconcile that fact and I have a strong belief that I would let you go. Kind of sad really because in the grand scheme of things, it's really a small issue.

 

As a curiosity she actually tried something with me before she was comfortable offering it to him. But we also had the opposite, but that has been taken care of now.

 

Tough call for you, I don't envy you that one.

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My issue is that over the years I've been turned down when initiating sex. There's a litany of excuses from my wife: I'm too tired, I'm too cold, the kids are awake, I don't feel sexy right now, I'm too this, I'm too that.

 

I realize that this is normal and expected. If there was no affair, then this would likely be a non-issue for me. However, the affair does have an impact on my mindset. If we hit a dry spell I can't help but think "you weren't TOO MARRIED to have sex with OM". When the emotions were raw after D-day the internal voice was more of "maybe I should call OM and ask him how to get in your pants".

 

I understand that it is not fair to her, but it is the reality of the situation. Now it's not so much of an issue, but the thoughts are still there as a BH. It's a natural consequence of my wife choosing to screw another man.

 

For men, I think this is a common response/trigger. So, yeah, I can relate to your husband.

 

Umm...why isn't it fair to her?

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I'm sure your husband didn't like the fact that you lied and cheated on him but still decides to stay with you for whatever reason. He figuratively takes in the rear for your actions everyday with every trigger.

 

I have a panic attack. It can't be true. No way. He tells her ever degrading, erotic, 'woman as a f**kdoll' type of thing you could hope for from a male sex addict. She loves it. Now, it's worth noting, I have never received this type of attention from my wife. Ever. And here I read about all their fantasies. How they use Douche's gf.

 

From your husband's quote above, now you see why he expects you to take it. You can be the "F**kdoll" for the om, but now you what to be the dignified housewife for your husband.

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Well - I spurred a new thread...

 

The sex thing is very complicated, as is my wife's back story. I never really got all of the details or much on the sex between wife and OM nor should I (again its complicated story about the OM) but there have been a couple of issues on my mind over the years.

 

"The best". Initially ones mind goes to "was he better than me" this applies to any man in your wife's past, but particularity with an OM. I was given or found out only limited information in this matter. But I think for me, this has been resolved (mostly) through my own improvements in self esteem and not though begging my wife for a detailed breakdown and comparison chart. I am confident I am attractive and a good lover ....independently of her views on the matter.. However, the flip side of "the best" issue is the question "was she the best for him" this is much harder to deal with. My base values have been - when you choose a long term partner or marriage -out of love - your supposed to give your best to that person. That is love is a giving act. Best sex comes in best love and commitment - not in casual or illicit sex. This idea has been discussed/debated here at LS and other places with no clear resolution. Lets just say for some people (women and men) sex is better for them in a loving committed relationship while others - are honest that the casual/strange/new/forbidden sex is better. Which brings us to the next point that has and is being discussed with my wife in therapy

 

Married sex vs outside of marriage sex. Outside might mean premarital, casual dating, or affairs. My wife struggles with this concept. She (like some women and men) copes with the Madonna whore complex. That it is easier to "explore" sexual behaviors (as CD mentioned) in relationships free from roles or expectations. Where are a nice married wife and mom is not supposed to do kinky stuff. Also that while she deals with shame of being with OM/MM she tends to lump the sex as "bad" as well. That is it was bad to be with a MM - so the type of sex I had was bad too. This dichotomy of sexual roles - single or mistress vs married wife - right vs wrong type of sex - permeates our society. This too has been discussed here on LS and in articles and books I have read. It is harder to release yourself and say (for example) spank me and be rough with me - when you and your husband were arguing over which in laws house you were going to for Christmas dinner. This duality is hardest for women I think to deal with. Men not so much - we can handle it.

 

Further along this "role" issue - there is plainly the affair bubble. Typically the affair partner is simply a romantic and pleasure partner - there is not any other dynamic. Its new, emotions and needs are high, and frankly you simply don't have to deal with reality of daily life with them - grocery shopping, cleaning the toilet, kids crying or a snack, etc.

 

This is why I work hard to not try to compare the sex life and desire they had in a limited time frame, limited obligation bubble. But I fail at it and get mad sometimes. I often imagine - okay say she actually married OM and had kids with him - couple of years later would their sex life be like what it was - would she be the same. The answer is probably not. They would be arguing over sex - and he would likely be cheating on her.

 

Our therapist has been working with my wife to get her to find "her kinky boots" again - within a our marriage reminding her that she has a great husband and man and a great life now - and she needs to let herself open up sexually, try new things, ask me what I would like to try, and have fun. My wife is trying (we recently did something new and it was nice), but there is lot to work on and I still deal with trust and hurt issues and wife struggles to present her wilder sexual nature and not be disrespectfully viewed in the marriage.

 

Finally let me say through out our many years - we have had some pretty darn good sex - up and down in occurrence - with too many dry spells, but it happens when she can let go of her inhibitions. I don't know if there is anything I am missing in specific acts, but i doubt its much at this point. I think she has at least once or twice done everything with me that she did with others. Also there is one thing she did only for her husband - give me a child which is something she did specifically for me and my need.

Edited by dichotomy
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In thinking about your husbands, what can you do to make them feel like you love them more than the AP?

 

Can you do something sexual with your husband that you refused to do for your AP? Was there something you refused to do for you AP?

 

How does he ever get over feeling like he is your backup plan?

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If you read her H's new thread, it isn't quite as simple as them considering an open marriage and them "backing out at the last minute."

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Rough situation. I think this is another case where the BS isn't always right (in regards to the "forever" concept). That's unhealthy. If the goal is to reconcile, then the goal is to have mutual respect and admiration for one another (which doesn't happen if one person is permanently subservient to the other). This is an emotional reaction on your husband's part (and a pretty normal one). I would hope for a more rational view once some time has passed.

 

That said, if you were open to experimentation with the OM, I think you should be open to experimentation with your H as well. The word compromise seems distasteful in this context (I hate the idea of anyone doing something sexual that the really don't want) but I think the reality is that you both need to move towards the middle on this subject. It's ridiculous for him to say "whatever, wherever, forever" but it's equally ridiculous for you to say "I already tried that" when it was with the OM.

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If you read her H's new thread, it isn't quite as simple as them considering an open marriage and them "backing out at the last minute."

 

I just read his story, i only had CD's version. His version changed my perspective greatly.

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Rough situation. I think this is another case where the BS isn't always right (in regards to the "forever" concept). That's unhealthy. If the goal is to reconcile, then the goal is to have mutual respect and admiration for one another (which doesn't happen if one person is permanently subservient to the other). This is an emotional reaction on your husband's part (and a pretty normal one). I would hope for a more rational view once some time has passed.

 

That said, if you were open to experimentation with the OM, I think you should be open to experimentation with your H as well. The word compromise seems distasteful in this context (I hate the idea of anyone doing something sexual that the really don't want) but I think the reality is that you both need to move towards the middle on this subject. It's ridiculous for him to say "whatever, wherever, forever" but it's equally ridiculous for you to say "I already tried that" when it was with the OM.

 

I for one Betrayed do not buy into CD's post of him wanting it whenever and be damned, i think that is an exaggeration. I think that she is assuming as much, I never took it that way to begin with. The man wants to "balance" things out, that does not translate to "sex slave" who cares what she wants. Mind you this was and still is my opinion after reading her post and now having read his. I think she really just doesn't like doing something and he wants to because she did before and so she projects it to be something greater than it should be.

 

Perhaps they need to have better communication over this, scary kind of.

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compulsivedancer
I feel like context is missing. Your H approved of you messing around? That doesn't qualify as an affair.

 

My H just joined LS and posted the while story as Compulsive Musician, if you don't want to backtrack through my stuff.

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compulsivedancer
Interesting that you'd disrespect someone at the level which infidelity implies but retain enough consideration to reserve certain activities only for him? I don't get it...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Affairs don't make sense. WSs justify things like this: Well I'm doing this, but at least I'm not doing THAT!

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...it's equally ridiculous for you to say "I already tried that" when it was with the OM.

 

Sorry kidd, but you got that wrong. Replace "ridiculous" with heartless.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong CD, but you seem to post looking for validation rather than genuine advice. That is to say, you project no real desire to change, but instead are seeking ways to make your husband understand what you want. This, I can conclude, was the thinking mindset that led you into the situation you find yourself in. You seek to bolster the status quo.

 

You may not like it, but there are serious consequences for careless sexual experimentation. When you step outside of the marriage, those issues multiply. Seemingly lost is the fact that sex is reserved for two-people to express their love and respect each other. Each committed to the other and fully aware of the fact that you are completely opening yourself up to the other person. This responsibility demands it be carefully cherished and cultivated; not swung around like a hammer, smashing bits for satisfaction. The desensitized thrill seeker cannot accept this. Like the compulsive over-eater, satisfaction always demands more.

 

I believe you and your husband would be better off alone. Perhaps then you could grow up, allowing both of you to cherish love in a healthy way.

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It think it's more of an ego thing. He was/is hurt that you willingly did things with the OM that you never did with your husband. Things that maybe he would have enjoyed exploring with you and deciding if that something you both like or don't. But, you did these things with the OM and YOU made the decision that you didn't like it. Now, you won't let your husband experience these new things because YOU decided that you didn't like them with another man that wasn't him. Funny thing about sex, it's different with everyone that you're with. Something that you didn't enjoy with one man may be enjoyable with another. Perhaps your husband would be more gentle where the other man was rough.

 

Let me give you a scenario of if the shoe was on the other foot and how YOU would feel about it.

 

Lets say your husband cheated on you. But, you discovered that he took the OW to the Bahamas. Enjoying the sun and surf, margarita's on the beach. Romantic dinners, rose pedals on the bed, dancing under the stars with soft island music playing in the background, walks along the beach at night with the surf gently crashing in and that the OW has your husband's complete and undivided attention.....sounds nice, relaxing and romantic. But, he doesn't want to do that again or anything similar because....well, he found it quite boring. BUT! He's gonna take you to a football game!

 

So, the OW gets sun, sand, romance and fun from your husband. And you get a tailgate party with beer and hotdogs. How special would that make you feel?

Edited by Chi townD
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I had a long post and it got lost.

 

They way you tried things when first married then discarded them that is normal and right for why do them if they are not fun.

 

For your BH to demand or expect you to do things that you tried for the OM you must now do forever for him is wrong. Because there will be things that after experimenting that you found out were not enjoyable.

 

You did anal with BH and the OM 2 times vs 3 times. No need to revisit that.

 

Though you make it sound as if you did a ton of new things with the OM that your BH never got to do. And you now refuse to do them with your BH.

 

You place your BH in a spot that he never will get to do those things that you had so much fun exploring in your affair. Your BH has to have an affair and find another woman to do these things with.

 

Though he still will never be even because you never gave your BH what you freely gave your OM. That is what your BH needs. For you his wife to give him all of what you gave the OM. Not half of what you gave your OM.

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