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thoughts on forgiveness


katielee

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We went to a new MC yesterday. He said every day we need to forgive, trust and be vulnerable... that's the only way relationships work. I just can't do that yet.

Counselor also said: the person I need to forgive the most is myself, for staying with hubby and putting up with all his bull****. Boy, that made him squirm. I cried.

 

He is being great though... very loving...

 

The little things just nag at me....yesterday he didn't contact me at all because he had such a busy day. I tried to be big about it. I know he will have those days. But he contacted one of the OW every single day and that still stings. These are the million little things I'll need to get over to recover and I just can't.

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I remember when I first told him how much it hurt that he didn't contact me every day but he did her. His response: well it was a new relationship and we were getting to know each other. - effing stab to the heart.

He doesn't remember saying that but it was during the foggy time.

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We went to a new MC yesterday. He said every day we need to forgive, trust and be vulnerable... that's the only way relationships work. I just can't do that yet.

Counselor also said: the person I need to forgive the most is myself, for staying with hubby and putting up with all his bull****. Boy, that made him squirm. I cried.

 

He is being great though... very loving...

 

The little things just nag at me....yesterday he didn't contact me at all because he had such a busy day. I tried to be big about it. I know he will have those days. But he contacted one of the OW every single day and that still stings. These are the million little things I'll need to get over to recover and I just can't.

 

 

Fire that MC.

 

You can only repair trust by being able to verify NC. The WH being an open book. WH contacting you throughout the day to let you know he got to work, left work, and use land line at work to verify he was there by caller ID. By the WH repeatedly confirming NC and being where he says he is will trust issues be repaired. Not restored. Because after an affair trust will never be able to be blind at 100%.

 

Now do you see why you need to get the book Surviving An Affair by Dr Harley.

 

Edit to add that I forgot to say the WH always was able to find time to contact their AP.

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I have that book and have read it. Harley advocates moving, not bringing up the affairs, and the reason the WS cheats is because the emotional needs weren't being met. I don't agree with any of this, I want to move because I don't want to see the OW, not because I'm afraid they'll start up again..,,

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compulsivedancer
Fire that MC.

 

You can only repair trust by being able to verify NC. The WH being an open book. WH contacting you throughout the day to let you know he got to work, left work, and use land line at work to verify he was there by caller ID. By the WH repeatedly confirming NC and being where he says he is will trust issues be repaired. Not restored. Because after an affair trust will never be able to be blind at 100%.

 

Now do you see why you need to get the book Surviving An Affair by Dr Harley.

 

Edit to add that I forgot to say the WH always was able to find time to contact their AP.

 

I agree. Do whatever you need to do to feel loved and to trust your WH. If you need daily affirmations from him, demand daily affirmations! This is your chance to rebuild. Rebuild in a way that is acceptable to you and allows you to heal.

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I have that book and have read it. Harley advocates moving, not bringing up the affairs, and the reason the WS cheats is because the emotional needs weren't being met. I don't agree with any of this, I want to move because I don't want to see the OW, not because I'm afraid they'll start up again..,,

 

There are definitely crappy parts of the Harley program - particularly the blameshifting to emotional needs nonsense and the not bringing up the affair crap. I do agree with moving but for a multitude of reasons.

 

As for forgiveness, it has to be earned first. Don't try to offer forgiveness before it is earned. And even when it is, you need time. That was a clever one-liner by your therapist but I hardly think it applies to infidelity. Sadly, many MCs do more harm than good on this subject. They just pressure the BS to get over it (but obviously they do it with rosy language). WSs eat it up.

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Betterthanthis13
There are definitely crappy parts of the Harley program - particularly the blameshifting to emotional needs nonsense and the not bringing up the affair crap. I do agree with moving but for a multitude of reasons.

 

As for forgiveness, it has to be earned first. Don't try to offer forgiveness before it is earned. And even when it is, you need time. That was a clever one-liner by your therapist but I hardly think it applies to infidelity. Sadly, many MCs do more harm than good on this subject. They just pressure the BS to get over it (but obviously they do it with rosy language). WSs eat it up.

 

I've wondered about how MC's deal with the fact that if they do take a hard line on a WS, it would probably make the WS unlikely to come back, and then the MC could lose the couple alltogether. The BS may be an easy target because they are already broken and confused and sad, and they want answers so will keep going back to MC even if the MC itself becomes abusive to the BS

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We went to a new MC yesterday. He said every day we need to forgive, trust and be vulnerable... that's the only way relationships work. I just can't do that yet.

Counselor also said: the person I need to forgive the most is myself, for staying with hubby and putting up with all his bull****. Boy, that made him squirm. I cried.

 

He is being great though... very loving...

 

The little things just nag at me....yesterday he didn't contact me at all because he had such a busy day. I tried to be big about it. I know he will have those days. But he contacted one of the OW every single day and that still stings. These are the million little things I'll need to get over to recover and I just can't.

 

Katielee, every time I read your posts I think Catch 22. Its almost like you set yourself(and possibly your H as well) up to fail at reconciliation. Many of your posts read as if there is no solution to your problems.

 

If you need a call every day, you H should give you one. Negotiate that and he will or he wont. Maybe you will have to remind a few times until he gets it, but if that's what it takes so what?

 

As for forgiveness, I think possibly you are too fixated on this. I do think you will eventually need to forgive whether you stay or go for your own peace of mind. But, I think if you would resolve having a happier M, that will come in its own time.

 

I think clarifying what you want your M to look like day in and day out and then asking clearly and directly for those things would go a long way to resolving your issues. Your H will either give you what you ask for or not and that will make it a whole lot easier to decide where you want to be.

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I've wondered about how MC's deal with the fact that if they do take a hard line on a WS, it would probably make the WS unlikely to come back, and then the MC could lose the couple alltogether. The BS may be an easy target because they are already broken and confused and sad, and they want answers so will keep going back to MC even if the MC itself becomes abusive to the BS

 

This is almost exactly the problem. The MC know that the wayward is the less courageous of the two and so they back off of them and focus on marital problems.

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whatatangledweb

You won't forgive all of it at once. It is too many things. Look at each thing and slowly forgive. It took me a very long time to forgive. There was one part that took me the longest. And I still have not forgiven myself. I try but I can not forgive myself for not noticing. I am not naive I should have seen something.

 

I wrote a list of every single thing and then marked them off as I could accept they happened and I could let it go. Forgiving doesn't meant forgetting or condoning it.

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Your situation is different than most being that you are madhatters.

 

Your ego was very hurt by HIS affairs.

 

Can I ask you something?

 

Was your ap married?

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whatatangledweb: that is exactly what I'm doing. I have been moving things to the forgiven column. That's how it is working best for me....

 

I don't need a phone call every day. But it still stings that he had contact with them every day....

 

I'm not sure our MC has an agenda. We are both wayward AND betrayed. AND, he kicked my husband's butt yesterday when my husband referred to my rape as my "second incident." he said no question, she was raped, you have no right to blame her. Stop with the shaming.

Folks, why the heck am I putting up with him referring to it as that? That should be a dealbreaker in itself.

 

Tough tough IC session where she said: you feel like **** every day. You are too dependent on him and his actions to make you feel safe and happy.. Just depend on yourself.. man, tough to hear.. true though. Not sure why I am stuck as I have a big life...

 

I really appreciate everyone's thoughts.

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Tell your husband that you are deeply hurt by his actions and you need his actions to help you heal and feel like you are his number one choice. He needs to do something to show you that you are way more important than the AP.

 

He may be very ashamed of his actions, but he is your husband and if he wants to stay with you, you need him to stop hurting you and to start helping you, even if he is ashamed.

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what would you tell your ap bs, if she said/felt what you are feeling?

 

That her husband must have had true love for you because of certain acts/actions/words.

 

That She is less than because YOU exist.

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what would you tell your ap bs, if she said/felt what you are feeling?

 

That her husband must have had true love for you because of certain acts/actions/words.

 

That She is less than because YOU exist.

 

no...absolutely not.

 

but at some point those women were more important than I in his life.... they knew about me but i didn't know about them.

 

Sadly, during my affair, I thought about my AP more than I did my husband...

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He needs to do something to show you that you are way more important than the AP.

 

 

well, not sure what this would look like. Him staying with me is probably his biggest action.

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but at some point those women were more important than I in his life.... they knew about me but i didn't know about them.

 

Sadly, during my affair, I thought about my AP more than I did my husband..

 

A good starting point. Is the second part true today?

 

Is the first part true today?

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but at some point those women were more important than I in his life.... they knew about me but i didn't know about them.

 

Sadly, during my affair, I thought about my AP more than I did my husband..

 

A good starting point. Is the second part true today?

 

Is the first part true today?

 

no, absolutely not.

 

no.

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Can you take all that you have learned from being a wayward yourself, and help that part of you that is the betrayed?

 

I guess that would be the whole point of this. That I am enough. That I don't need to be externally validated by anyone, that all validation comes from within. That it would be great if I could choose to put into perspective how little that man meant to me and how little these women meant to my husband. That I got lost for a while, same as him. and on and on....

 

of course, that isn't the feeling in my gut....

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actually, that my act might have been a dealbreaker for both of us. That neither of us can end this, even though we love each other...

 

that what he did hugely damaged my ego - you are right.

 

that this is a co-dependent relationship. My day to day feelings are based on how he acts and that is so NOT HEALTHY. and I don't know why I'm like that?! I never used to be. My IC really challenged me to be happy no matter what he is doing. And I don't know why I can't do that...

 

I am getting better. Yesterday's no contact with me would have sent me in a meltdown a year ago. Now I'm just - meh...

 

I'm so glad someone posted about patience. But my IC is worried about me...

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Could be you are detaching.

 

Your life has been filled with emotion for the past few years, being in an affair, being the betrayed. It takes its toll. Eventually, you were bound to get tired.

 

Claiming back the ease of life...after such trauma is difficult.

 

However, it can be done.

 

Start thinking about how many years have already been wasted. Vow, to reclaim the future.

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