Jump to content

I am not indifferent


BetrayedH

Recommended Posts

How much of a problem is this?

 

Quick timeline:

Nearly two and a half years from Dday. Reconciliation failed and we separated a year and a half ago. Got a girlfriend about six months later - we're good and my kids like her. It's been a year since the divorce was final. 50/50 custody.

 

The problem is that I have read (and preached) that the goal is indifference, that the opposite of love is not hate. But I am not indifferent.

 

One serious problem is that we have to co-parent (and we're good parents so we communicate). It's almost all by email but it's consistent and will be for another 11+ years. It's easy for either of us to become upset at even slight offenses.

 

It's important to note that the nature of my ex-wife's infidelity was particularly disrespectful and intentionally so. Things didn't go well. Her ability to lie throughout the whole process has been remarkable.

 

So, how about if I decide not to be indifferent? I might just embrace being angry for a while longer.

 

On the other hand, with the divorce being just less than a year perhaps it's just a little early to be over it. I've analyzed it to death, almost all of it documented here. I'm still investing a lot of mental energy. I'm struggling making the transition to "moved on," regardless of my desire to be there. I'm consistently irritated. I almost feel like I should embrace it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

You are still grieving. The roller coaster of emotions you are describing is a normal part of the grief process. Everyone is different, we grieve and heal in different ways and at different paces. It has only been one year. . . Give yourself all the time you need. "Embrace the suck," as they say, and let yourself feel the emotion and pain. Don't bury it and don't drown it - live it, you will get through it quicker and be better for it when you come out the other side. And you will come out the other side. Things get better.

  • Like 6
Link to post
Share on other sites

Dude! Seriously, how could you be indifferent at this point considering all that happened? I have used some of your story to explain to others how this all can be such a mind-f*ck. When I tell them how you dragged the couch to the back yard and set the bitch on fire, they start to get it. They start to get how this can make seemingly normal people just bat-sheit crazy. Then add to the fact you still have to deal with that succubus on a regular basis.

 

Indifference is the goal, but I don't think you can rush it or force it. It comes when it comes.

 

Cut yourself some slack. Enjoy your kids when you can. Enjoy the new girlfriend. Enjoy the new house with the new flame retardant furniture. And if embracing the anger feels good, embrace it. Just don't let it take control of you. ( but if it does, call me first. I'll come down with a fire extinguisher. :lmao:)

  • Like 11
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey BH,

 

I'll start with my usual disclaimer - that I've never gone through what you've been through.

 

I just wanted to say that when I think of the 'indifference' advice, I think that it would apply more to the following scenario....

 

I date a guy for a long time, he breaks my heart, it ends badly. At first I wish him eternal heartbreak and that he never finds anyone that will love him. Then time passes, I heal and move on and I'm more like 'meh' when it comes to him.

 

In cases like yours, where you were married, had a long history' there was betrayal, and divorce, I would imagine that reaching that indifference would be much tougher, especially when you still have to deal with her because of the kids. Also, from what I hear parents sometimes argue or have differing opinions on how to deal with kids, so that just adds to what you're trying to get past and maybe even trigger some things.

 

Eventually, I hope you'll get used to dealing with the new dynamic you two have and as things progress successfully with your new lady, I think you will reach 'indifference'

 

For now don't sweat it, and don't deny or force your feelings. :)

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Author

I guess you guys are right. I need to "embrace the suck."

 

I guess I tend to think more of it as being 2.5 years since Dday and so I should be further along. I'm tired of thinking about this crap. I still don't know how you get over it.

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
I guess you guys are right. I need to "embrace the suck."

 

I guess I tend to think more of it as being 2.5 years since Dday and so I should be further along. I'm tired of thinking about this crap. I still don't know how you get over it.

Just time. Like you said "my ex-wife's infidelity was particularly disrespectful and intentionally so. Things didn't go well. Her ability to lie throughout the whole process has been remarkable."

That's not easy stuff to get over. It wasn't a clean cut with a knife. She stuck the knife in, twisted it, pulled it out, jammed it back in, then twisted it some more. That's a lot of trauma that needs to heal.

  • Like 7
Link to post
Share on other sites

BH, i think it's the way it "went down" in the end. your wife was still lying to you.

 

the "couch incident" was not cool. you had to find out this sh*t by way of an anonymous post in a fetish forum..... not an easy thing to read, or get over. your outburst might've looked over the top to some, but most of us can see why you did snap like that.

 

it's the f*cking lying. if she would've told you from the get-go that she f*cked this guy on the couch, like you inquired about, you would've gotten rid of it, right there and then- to move on without any omissions. but for her to lie to you like that- WOW! all it tells me is that she wanted to keep a memento of her infidelity..... like rubbing it in your face. i can see why you're still seething.

 

 

i agree..... you have to "embrace the suck" a little longer, if you ever do get over it.

 

it sucks..... i feel for you, man.

 

 

if i may ask, how does she seem to you? i mean..... do you think she carries the same emotional weight you do?

  • Like 6
Link to post
Share on other sites
I guess you guys are right. I need to "embrace the suck."

I'm going to respectfully disagree. When kids are involved you have to do right by them and keep the tension and disagreements to an absolute minimum. You can't afford to be angry as they pick up on that and it affects their ability to move on also.

 

So be not only the better man but the better person. If you're going to embrace something, have it be the happiness of your new life and the joy of fatherhood. Let the rest of it go (I know, easier said than done) through some combination of karma, exercise, meditation and spirituality. Get the best revenge - live well for yourself and your kids...

 

Mr. Lucky

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

We have this "children's" book about dragons.

Bookstore - The Dragons of Ridvania

The protagonist goes out to defeat various dragons and each dragon represents a negative emotion. Each time he's nearly overcome but in the end finds out how these emotions can serve us if dealt with properly. Anger is one of the first three he faces. We learn that anger protects us from getting hurt again.

 

I'm going to do what I usually do and relate this to my own situation... :rolleyes: I wish I didn't have to do that, but I think it makes what I'm saying that much more real.

 

It was red hot anger that made me expose the affair and file for divorce. Anger has driven me through this whole process. What you don't do is let it drive you to abuse and things that hurt your children.

 

For me, much of the person I married is still there. I had to spent 3 hours with her just now at my daughter's birthday party. It's surreal because she's still that same person I knew and if I let myself we could get along famously. She's actually extra nice to me when I see her..but I try to only loosen up enough to talk about my daughter. My anger over her not being trustworthy or committed keeps me the hell away from her. If I forget what happened I could fall into the same trap I did already. There are many reasons I married her and they don't go away. I doubt I will ever be indifferent. I need my anger to protect myself from a woman who is dangerous to me because of my weakness for her. I dunno if you still see good in your ex, or maybe anger is blinding you to it. For me I want the anger to blind me and I want to keep as much distance as possible, because I don't want to get hurt by a liar again. I won't blame my self if I'm never indifferent. Maybe it will be after my daughter is 18 and out of the house, when communications with ex finally drop to a minimum. In the meantime when I allow myself to find someone new, my anger will help keep the boundaries between my ex and myself. I don't want to be her friend. I need to be driven to keep conversation at an absolute minimum. We're not talking about some acquaintance in the office. This is a woman I professed love to for 18 years. We have extensive history. If I keep up good boundaries, maybe in a few years it will become good habits and the indifference will be there with little chance of anything re-evolving.

 

So I think it's ok to embrace and not beat yourself up for it. If a new GF has a problem with it...sigh... They will have to understand that's there's rich history there and it's near impossible to be indifferent. It's going to be anger or love for a long while I think. Better to protect yourself and pray for eventual indifference.

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites
I guess you guys are right. I need to "embrace the suck."

 

I guess I tend to think more of it as being 2.5 years since Dday and so I should be further along. I'm tired of thinking about this crap. I still don't know how you get over it.

I think about this crap obsessively every stinking day. Probably will help when we finalize...

 

Anyway, I finally came up a phrase to replace repetitive negative thoughts that come up constantly. "I will support my daughter". Not, "I'm going to @#&*$(@#^$&@^*$&!" :D So, when the latter comes up, I try to think the former:D.

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know if my STBX was unfaithful. I believe he was because I trust my instincts but there were so many other issues that I can't focus on the maybes.

 

Do you think the difficulty is because you're forced to still have contact with her?

 

I'm indifferent to my feelings about him as someone I used to love but I doubt I'll ever been indifferent to how he treated me. As much as I know forgiveness is supposed to be for me, I can't forgive him because he's not sorry.

 

Do you think you're still waiting for an apology?

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Has your wife tired to emotionally control or hurt you via the kids? Or maybe just try to get your goat or make things slightly difficult for you? I know first hand when there is a pissed of or hurt ex spouse, they will use the kids or the divorce or custody agreement to continue to inflict pain. We had to take my wife's ex back to court to change the rules and put a stop to things.

 

However, if your ex wife is reasonably "fair" in the custody sharing, the I would say you just need time. Living well and healthy has always been a good route for me to overcome past a-holes who hurt me. It does sound like you have a nice GF, and better situation these days - keep working on that.

 

I hope you are able to be healthy and find joy with your new GF, you found her reasonably quickly after the divorce? Sometimes we drag crap into our new relationships which is a double loss - the gift that keeps giving from a betrayal.

Edited by dichotomy
Link to post
Share on other sites
yellowmaverick

I am about 2 years and 3 months past d-day and I don't feel indifferent yet either. I think for me my H's affair has shaken my belief in humanity. When I think about the specifics of his affair and read some of the heartless posts on these forums, I become dispondent over how sh*** people can be. Maybe you, like me, are just having a difficult time finding your faith in the goodness of people.

  • Like 6
Link to post
Share on other sites

Become indifferent after she lets you know she was totally to blame asks your forgiveness and joins a nunnery.

 

Just sayin',

 

Twosadthings

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Author
BH, i think it's the way it "went down" in the end. your wife was still lying to you.

 

the "couch incident" was not cool. you had to find out this sh*t by way of an anonymous post in a fetish forum..... not an easy thing to read, or get over. your outburst might've looked over the top to some, but most of us can see why you did snap like that.

 

it's the f*cking lying. if she would've told you from the get-go that she f*cked this guy on the couch, like you inquired about, you would've gotten rid of it, right there and then- to move on without any omissions. but for her to lie to you like that- WOW! all it tells me is that she wanted to keep a memento of her infidelity..... like rubbing it in your face. i can see why you're still seething.

 

 

i agree..... you have to "embrace the suck" a little longer, if you ever do get over it.

 

it sucks..... i feel for you, man.

 

 

if i may ask, how does she seem to you? i mean..... do you think she carries the same emotional weight you do?

 

We literally had no contact for a good two months after that incident. When we did, she had already filed. She wrote me that she was sorry that she had brought us to this place and that she knew I had really tried. Otherwise, it's been all business. If I were hoping for any expressions of remorse, I think those days are long over.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Author
I'm going to respectfully disagree. When kids are involved you have to do right by them and keep the tension and disagreements to an absolute minimum. You can't afford to be angry as they pick up on that and it affects their ability to move on also.

 

So be not only the better man but the better person. If you're going to embrace something, have it be the happiness of your new life and the joy of fatherhood. Let the rest of it go (I know, easier said than done) through some combination of karma, exercise, meditation and spirituality. Get the best revenge - live well for yourself and your kids...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Fortunately, we've both done well at keeping any angst re: one another away from the kids. They've adapted remarkably well and I think a lot of that is because we don't throw each other under the bus with the kids at all. We present a unified front. I think it also helped that we have a good shared custody routine where the kids switch after 3-4 days each week. We're both consistently involved with homework, extracurriculars, and so forth. Unless you read our emails (which sometimes become terse over relatively small infractions), you wouldn't know we were anything but amicably divorced.

 

As for living well, I don't disagree. I'm working on that but started a second life from ground zero. And I've never been a spiritual guy. Maybe yoga or meditation is something I should consider but it's really counter to my nature.

 

Appreciate your thoughts.

Link to post
Share on other sites

betayed H, you have been there for me from my first point til now. I KNOW you have Great compassion and heart. I believe that is why this hurts SO much, and from hurt stems anger much of the time.

I believe Indifference can happen but I also believe it may Never happen. I hope that someday I can look at My H, his A and the exOW w/zero emotion, but right now I don't even try. I would let myself down every time.

Realistically, I see having More and more "good" days along w/not thinking about his A or exOW at all. When I do think about it, my mind doesn't stay there for long but my feelings are anything But indifference. That's on my H & exOW. Not me.

Add to this the cold, hard fact that you and exW have to remain in contact w/each other (for the kids sake) for possibly Ever, and it re-opens the A wounds.

For now, strive for goals you can reach; more happy moments, less brain space re: the A, then more days Not thinking of the Sh*t...

Since you follow your nature instead of your spirit, I'll pray For you. :)

CIH*

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
One serious problem is that we have to co-parent (and we're good parents so we communicate). It's almost all by email but it's consistent and will be for another 11+ years. It's easy for either of us to become upset at even slight offenses.

 

In time this will get easier and hopefully some day you two can be in the same room together and not become upset, irritated or angry with one another.

 

It just take time and space for the wounds to heal. You went through hell and back, she was an awful person and hurt you in the worst possible way. That is in the past, you've moved on and so has she but that doesn't mean the pain still isn't there on occasion.

 

Everyday just tell yourself she doesn't matter at all. She is just the mother of your child(ren) and you respect her because of that and ONLY that.

Maybe yoga or meditation is something I should consider but it's really counter to my nature.

 

Do it! It'll make such a difference in your life, you have no idea! Trust me on that.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Author
We have this "children's" book about dragons.

Bookstore - The Dragons of Ridvania

The protagonist goes out to defeat various dragons and each dragon represents a negative emotion. Each time he's nearly overcome but in the end finds out how these emotions can serve us if dealt with properly. Anger is one of the first three he faces. We learn that anger protects us from getting hurt again.

 

I'm going to do what I usually do and relate this to my own situation... :rolleyes: I wish I didn't have to do that, but I think it makes what I'm saying that much more real.

 

It was red hot anger that made me expose the affair and file for divorce. Anger has driven me through this whole process. What you don't do is let it drive you to abuse and things that hurt your children.

 

For me, much of the person I married is still there. I had to spent 3 hours with her just now at my daughter's birthday party. It's surreal because she's still that same person I knew and if I let myself we could get along famously. She's actually extra nice to me when I see her..but I try to only loosen up enough to talk about my daughter. My anger over her not being trustworthy or committed keeps me the hell away from her. If I forget what happened I could fall into the same trap I did already. There are many reasons I married her and they don't go away. I doubt I will ever be indifferent. I need my anger to protect myself from a woman who is dangerous to me because of my weakness for her. I dunno if you still see good in your ex, or maybe anger is blinding you to it. For me I want the anger to blind me and I want to keep as much distance as possible, because I don't want to get hurt by a liar again. I won't blame my self if I'm never indifferent. Maybe it will be after my daughter is 18 and out of the house, when communications with ex finally drop to a minimum. In the meantime when I allow myself to find someone new, my anger will help keep the boundaries between my ex and myself. I don't want to be her friend. I need to be driven to keep conversation at an absolute minimum. We're not talking about some acquaintance in the office. This is a woman I professed love to for 18 years. We have extensive history. If I keep up good boundaries, maybe in a few years it will become good habits and the indifference will be there with little chance of anything re-evolving.

 

So I think it's ok to embrace and not beat yourself up for it. If a new GF has a problem with it...sigh... They will have to understand that's there's rich history there and it's near impossible to be indifferent. It's going to be anger or love for a long while I think. Better to protect yourself and pray for eventual indifference.

 

Thanks NH. Like you, I wasn't quick to throw away 18 years, even after infidelity.

 

But like Artie said, it's the lies that were the most damaging. She bawled her eyes out saying that now I finally knew everything and she would never lie to me again - and that was a lie while she was saying it. She could've told me about that couch and we would have dispensed with it. It's like the hotels. I intially found 17, she admitted to 30 and then I discovered that it was more like 70. If your H is trying to forgive 17 or 30, why keep lying when all the man wants is honesty and remorse?

 

Anyway, I always appreciate your thoughts as a bit of a kindred spirit, but in my case I don't think I need my anger anymore to keep me safe. My view of her has changed. Perhaps I'm just a year or so ahead of you in the process. That and the fact that my GF truly appreciates me. It's night and day from being treated like crap. I can't see myself going back into that frying pan again.

  • Like 6
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Author
I don't know if my STBX was unfaithful. I believe he was because I trust my instincts but there were so many other issues that I can't focus on the maybes.

 

Do you think the difficulty is because you're forced to still have contact with her?

 

I'm indifferent to my feelings about him as someone I used to love but I doubt I'll ever been indifferent to how he treated me. As much as I know forgiveness is supposed to be for me, I can't forgive him because he's not sorry.

 

Do you think you're still waiting for an apology?

 

Continued contact is definitely a huge part of the challenge. The new school year is an especially trying time as there's so much to do with new schedules, extra curriculars and the like. Not having the foundation of a marriage makes it very difficult to resolve disputes and patience, especially on my part, is hard to come by. For example, my 7 yo daughter went to the nurse being a bit of a diva about being hot and sweaty at PE and my ex-MIL picked her up. I didn't find out until my daughter informed me on one of my days several days later. I should know about my daughter leaving school "sick," be involved for such a decision, and be given the option of picking her up myself if my exwife wasn't available (rather than a grandparent). My exwife also made some unilateral decisions about my son's electives. Not cool. And I have little patience for it. I'd much rather never see her again but instead I get this crap.

 

As for still wanting an apology, I suppose there's some truth to that. But we went thru 8 months of trying to reconcile where she appeared remorseful. I think she stayed out of guilt, obligation, and fear. I certainly think I'm owed an apology for the blog post but she holds equal resentment for being thrown out the door. She's done with apologizing. While something sincere from her would go a long way towards closure for me, it's not coming and I've been forced to accept that my closure is going to have to come from within.

 

Both were good points, Red Wolverine. They're key parts of the problem.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Author
Has your wife tired to emotionally control or hurt you via the kids? Or maybe just try to get your goat or make things slightly difficult for you? I know first hand when there is a pissed of or hurt ex spouse, they will use the kids or the divorce or custody agreement to continue to inflict pain. We had to take my wife's ex back to court to change the rules and put a stop to things.

 

However, if your ex wife is reasonably "fair" in the custody sharing, the I would say you just need time. Living well and healthy has always been a good route for me to overcome past a-holes who hurt me. It does sound like you have a nice GF, and better situation these days - keep working on that.

 

I hope you are able to be healthy and find joy with your new GF, you found her reasonably quickly after the divorce? Sometimes we drag crap into our new relationships which is a double loss - the gift that keeps giving from a betrayal.

 

My ex and I have both done well at not putting the kids in the middle. But she knows how to push my buttons and will do it from time to time. Generally, I'm good about expressing my disapproval and moving on. I don't think it would ultimately be worthy of a court visit. As I previously mentioned, I'm just in a constant state of irritation - sometimes it's current events, sometimes analysis of old events but it just always seems to hang on.

 

Fortunately, my GF gets it. She's been thru her own divorce and has two kids so I'm sure that's part of it. It may have been "too early" for another relationship but I wasn't going to let my ex stop me from living my life for even another minute and I think it's really been a positive thing. If anything, this relationship helps me look forward rather than backwards.

 

Thanks for the kind words. Things aren't awful by any stretch but man, I'd sure like to be over it more than I am. Two and a half years of this stuff gets to wearing on you.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Author
I am about 2 years and 3 months past d-day and I don't feel indifferent yet either. I think for me my H's affair has shaken my belief in humanity. When I think about the specifics of his affair and read some of the heartless posts on these forums, I become dispondent over how sh*** people can be. Maybe you, like me, are just having a difficult time finding your faith in the goodness of people.

 

Yeah, there's no doubt that my worldview has changed. I certainly didn't think my wife capable of all of it. I could almost understand a drunken ONS but boy, discovering a full year of it and the extent of it all was way beyond my expectations of possible. Now I'm a skeptic but I still see an awful lot of good people out there and won't let it overwhelm my view.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I've never hated anyone. Sure, I've disliked some people but it has never been even close to hate.

 

It strange how love and hate is bandied about as if these emotions are interchangeable. I don't see it. I don't it see that way.

 

I think those who are seasoned haters are people for whom indifference comes naturally.

 

I think those who've truly loved find it harder to become indifferent because hatred is something they've never practiced or experienced.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I really wish I had words of wisdom for you. But I don't. I'll just say that you are one of my favorite people on here. I came on as the OW and you went above and beyond what a BS should've done for me. I think you're a great person and a great parent. And I do hope you get to the place you want to be in, in your own time.

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites
I really wish I had words of wisdom for you. But I don't. I'll just say that you are one of my favorite people on here. I came on as the OW and you went above and beyond what a BS should've done for me. I think you're a great person and a great parent. And I do hope you get to the place you want to be in, in your own time.

I think a lot of us feel the same way about BH. It hurts to see someone in pain who has spent so much energy helping and guiding us. BH was one of the first people to respond to my thread in Feb of 2012 (except he was Kidd and I was Ninja's Husband). He was the one who's advice resonated the most with me.

 

Trying desperately to think of anything to help :) I started a OneNote session on my phone, writing down important thoughts just to "finalize" them. I started a autobio of sorts to get the story straight. One lady on facebook responded to my sister's advice about forgiveness. She said she had to write an account of everything that transpired multiple times before they became just facts. I haven't done that...but I've thought about it. I have unsent, uncensored letters I've written for therapeutic purposes. One to a friend of my ex's, another to her MIL. It's in my head to write an album about the whole thing...I just wish I was better with lyrics and singing ^^

 

I think I've mentioned this before, but your frustration and anger probably help drive you to come to this site and help people. I remember a thread where you were thinking about throwing the towel in and I said that you were doing a great thing here. Who else would be so inspired to come here and help people with infidelity but someone who had had their life ravaged by it? It becomes a useful driving force. Like Michael J Fox who has done so much for people with Parkinson's disease, or a mother who's children died because of lack of car seat laws....etc etc. I think tragedy gives people purpose in life sometimes. Maybe when you feel so angry, think about all the people you have helped here and how that would have never happened otherwise.

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
×
×
  • Create New...