Manipulation during an A

[ComingInHot]

So, we've had threads on hypocricy, abuse, anger and they have all been Very good threads*

It got me thinking of the manipulation that I believe also happens during an A.

This is not just for BS's, but for anyone who has felt manipulated during an A.

 

How were you as a BS manipulated by your WS?

 

Do you feel the OW/OM manipulated you as a WS or BS?

 

How do you feel you were manipulated as the OW/OM by your current or ex MM/MW?

 

Web Definition;

manipulation

"Exerting shrewd or devious influence especially for one's own advantage."

[NotCamelot]

The ENTIRE time period of my Ws A, I was getting all the normal affection, ILY's, sex, etc...... everything seemed completely normal regarding how she treated me. So, I guess that in itself was manipulation. It kept me paying for everything, including the gas in her car so she could go meet the AP!

 

So, yes, I was definitley manipulated. She got everything as if she were not having an A. I had no clue.........for a while.

[ComingInHot]

Not Camelot;

I wonder... if things were the "status quo" in your M, is the basic fact that she was lying to you a manipulation in & of itself?

 

My H was purposefully distracting me w/lame arguments and put downs so I'd be focusing on how I was failing in areas rather than what he was "up to"... grrrr

[NotCamelot]

Not Camelot;

I wonder... if things were the "status quo" in your M, is the basic fact that she was lying to you a manipulation in & of itself?

 

Yes, the lying to cover up everything and keep me in the dark WAS manipulation. It kept her home life as normal as possible while the A was going on.

[ComingInHot]

It is my belief that the exow manipulated my H to consider I was a bad mother, ugly, no fun & a drunk ( one glass of red once a week, mostly Thursday evenings* ).

 

She also manipulated me into replying to her emails by accusing me of things that weren't true or things my H said or may have said that were true or half true. I felt compelled (at first) to reply & defend myself and to give her My version.

 

Foolish of me, I know, but I learned quick not to engage*

[Furious]

Being denied your own reality is manipulation!

[threelaurels]

How were you as a BS manipulated by your WS?

 

I am a betrayed girlfriend, not a BS, but I was definitely manipulated by my ex boyfriend. He manipulated me into having a threesome with him and his MOW. I didn't know he was cheating until afterwards.

 

The MOW in my case was innocent. She was polyamorous and her relationship with my ex was approved by her husband. My ex lied to her and made her believe that we were also polyamorous and that I was fine with their relationship.

 

On a related note, my sister's exH used their children to manipulate her into getting back together with him... twice. He cheated on my sister with another woman then ultimately left her for him. They got divorced. A few years later, he convinced her to get back together with him for the sake of the children, and she agreed to give him a second chance. They dated again... only to have him cheat on her (again) with the same OW!

 

Now, she is done with him for good, as is the OW apparently. My sister is in a relationship with a new man and they are having a child together. When her exH finds out, guess what he does? Tries to make her feel guilty for hurting the kids by bringing another man and a new sibling into their lives. He wants to get back together and be a family

 

People who use the kids as manipulation are the worst. They really are.

[ComingInHot]

Seethingand:), "This is a dangerous thread. If i were to sit here and list all of the lies and insults and all of it that my H did during his EA to keep me at bay, I would go home and tear him a new one.

 

To me, there is no benefit to reliving that. If it helps others, great, but this isn't 'fun' like commenting on how OW acted, or the look on WS face when they were confronted. This is listing the 'abuse' that we went through so that our spouses could have some fun.

 

I hope it helps others, but this seems like it has the potential to be very damaging to some reconciliation efforts. "

 

Hey Seething*

I think you are VERY smart & strong to know what you are willing and not-willing to think about as it would have a negative impact. I totally respect that and think you are wise and know yourself well!

 

The bolded above got me thinking though, are lies & insults acts of manipulation?

I think you may be onto something with the lies although I am not sure about the insults. To me, insults are thrown out as acts of bullying and abuse but I don't quite see them as trying to manipulate a person.

 

My H, definitely new what he was doing to achieve his adulterous act during the A.

 

I think the hardest part in all of this is not so much processing and dealing with and forgiving everything having to do with his A, but when he acts in a manner that he acted during the A, I am very troubled and hurt.

It just reminds me of the A and I am trying very hard to not be reminded of his A during my daily routine.

 

ex;

The other day we took our kids trail biking and had just gotten new tires on our bikes. I had been power cleaning since dawn and he had taken about 45 minutes longer than expected with getting the bike tires fixed with our son and I actually fell asleep (which I almost NEVER do).

He was pumping up the tire at the beginning of the trail, got pissy and stated kind of under his breath, " well if we had left when I planned to this would be a problem... J.C." (He knows I hate when he says J.C. and in front of the kids so I knew his comment was directed at me).

I called him out right then and there and replied, "Oh, so it is my fault the tire is flat because I fell asleep and wasn't ready on your time?!

His reply, "Next time just be ready"... How is that NOT manipulation?! It just put me right back during all he did/said during his A.!!!

 

Again, we are still working on some issues...*

[ComingInHot]

Seething,

H.O.L.Y. Cr@p!! It never ceases to amaze me the lengths some WS's will go to, to maintain what they want and think they deserve. BLECH!

 

I think you are probably right about the insults. My H did/said similar things to get me looking anywhere else OTHER than him.

 

You HAVE chosen to forgive him. Me too*

 

Thing is... and I'm to admit, I have had to forgive him (in my head and heart) for his A probably a thousand times...

 

He is trying and I DO appreciate it and can see the difference.

On a lighter note, I think in the beginning of our R, he tried hard for me, our family and staying together but now I think it is an even split of him trying to change things about himself for him as much as for me and our family.

[ComingInHot]

This just came to me too... what about the WS manipulating the other woman by having her believe he is a victim of a sexless, loveless M w/a W who doesn't take care of him?

 

I've heard & read that too...

 

I think that makes me just as angry because in my stitch, it SO wasn't true but he had her thinking/believing that.

[TheOW]

I manipulated myself and that's what I'm beginning to struggle with.

[LoveTKO]

***manipulation by the WS should come as no surprise!

 

They manipulate the spouse and the OM/OW that they're having the affair with. I was the OM in an affair and I called her out early on about her manipulative ways and her selfish traits. My experience with her was just predicated on sex, or what you would call f*** buddies, but she still tried to interject emotion into the mix in order to get me to be there for her. For example, if she had a work appointment across the state, she would often try to cajole me into going with her under the guise of "spending time together". But I called BS on her right away, because all she wanted was company.....she didn't want to be alone on long trips. Heck, she even used her girlfriend, who, per her words, often got on her nerves, to go with her on trips or work related events.

 

People who have affairs are cake eaters, users, and you as a spouse, lover, paramour, or whatever, are just a piece in this mosaic that encompasses their tormented soul. They can be all lovey dovey one moment and then shut you off if you don't go along with their plan. If there's one thing I've learned from those who have affairs is that it's not happenstance or something that they fell into out of the blue because someone sweet talked them; they plan this $hit out all the way down to the details. It's premeditation in its purest form......always.

[TheOW]

You manipulated yourself? Well that's intriguing.

 

In what manner?

 

Because I manipulated myself into doing something I knew wholeheartedly was wrong, I manipulated my thoughts into believing I couldn't live without him in my life - in or out the A.

 

I know myself inside and out and I knew I would fall hard for this man the first time we kissed (I even knew this would happen before we kissed) but I kept thinking I had it under control even though I knew I never.

[MissBee]

I was manipulated into the A, in that, he purposefully obfuscated his status. He didn't make it clear that he was in a relationship when he first started pursuing me and purposefully chose to keep that fact downplayed/hidden.

 

Do guilt-trips count? I think so. Often in the A when I would voice dissatisfaction about the status of things, his response would be to act like "Poor me..I'm sorry for making your life so horrible" and things of that nature, which were on the surface him saying he felt badly about things, but in reality, it was a guilt trip! He said those things to make himself the poor, victim and bad guy and to make me feel badly about having demands.

[ComingInHot]

TheOW,

You know, I think I get what you're saying. It may be on a MUCH lesser scale, but how I convince myself I can't "live" w/out a special pair of shoes... shoes are not special. They cover our feet from walking on the dirty ground or stepping in sh$t. They Can be pretty. They often times are more money than their worth...

 

It bothers because I UNintentionally did or didn't believe things that I normally would like to think I'd be aware of... I think I said that right*

[ComingInHot]

Miss bee, " He said those things to make himself the poor, victim and bad guy and to make me feel badly about having demands."

 

What is it in some of us women that we here the above in quotes & it makes our wonder woman oufit appear complete w/common sense deflecting crown and "golden lasso"?!!!

 

I have regretably been that girl many times, w/my H, my kids, my friends & family, always trying to save the day to make them happy... I wish that didn't make me feel so good.

[stevie_23]

I treated my partner exactly the same before, during and after my A with my ex-MM. And I don’t really view this as actual manipulation as I didn’t treat her any specific way in order to achieve anything other than not to CHANGE anything with our relationship. It would’ve been the same had I not been in an A. I didn’t have to DO anything or act a certain way in order to maintain the A, so I don’t see it as manipulation in itself.

 

Of course, omitting the fact I was having an A from her is deceitful and if she’d known she MAY have left me (though I highly doubt it), and I didn’t want that, so in THAT case, I suppose it could be seen as manipulation – just not telling her so nothing in my real life would change and I could have that AND continue the A.

 

I don’t feel my ex-MM manipulated me either. Or at least not in any way different to how I may have manipulated him. He never tried to get me to do anything. He was always understanding of my situation with my partner and never pressured me about anything. He made it clear he ALWAYS wanted to be with me (when he could), but that was fine with me as I felt the same way and always wanted to be with him too (when I could). So…any manipulation that did occur would’ve worked both ways and was most likely unintended.

[skylarblue]

xMM definitely manipulated (and gaslighted) his W during the A beyond the normal "I had to work late" lies. The things he's told me and that I've heard through phone conversations were surprising. He'd basically try (seemingly successfully) to convince her that every and any thought and notion she had was wrong and every trouble they were experiencing was due to and/or created by her through outright lies and blame-shifting. He'd play the victim being wrongfully accused while claiming to be the better person by not accusing her of cheating from certain things she does (knowing she's been faithful). Sometimes he was able to add "proof" (by pure luck) to a story that was a complete lie that she'd discovered/questioned and then nail her for not trusting him. His deception was very much made up of conscious and/or methodical actions. Just really, really shameful and undeserved behavior and treatment towards her, all and only for the goal of being able to have an A and still not disturb (well not disturbing to him) his M to her.

 

He tried to use manipulation on me, but I recognized his attempts to do so which made it ineffective (I was caught off guard by the notice and kinda it's confirmation at first though). I never called him out on it, but it didn't go ignored nor did I consider it insignificant. I think he believed he was "getting over" on me in some way kinda like he thought he had with his W, but I don't feel it was with the same malice (and probably he's sighed in relief or kinda high-fived himself just like he had with his W). It absolutely was with the same goal in mind, to allow him to keep the R.

 

Although, it was all manipulation xMM used two different approaches. With his W, he manipulated her trust. With me, he tried to manipulate my emotions. I think with both, he kinda banked on our love for him working in his benefit.

 

It's pretty f*ckin' shoddy when you really think about it - what manipulation is, how it works, and what it does and is intended to do and then apply that to someone you supposedly love and who loves and trust you...just sorry (smh).

[worldgonewrong]

How were you as a BS manipulated by your WS?

 

the manipulation (gaslighting) occurs when they tell you how miserable they are and how imperfect you are. If you're prone to guilt and prone to problem-solving, you want to 'fix' those things. So you make the mistake of asking them, practically on your knees, "What can I do?" and they coldly reply "Nothing". Which is a mindblower.

Meanwhile, they're committing an egregious act behind your back - and they're more flawed than you at that moment. Yet you're the one on your knees begging to solve a problem while another one is being created in secrecy.

It's crazy.

[ComingInHot]

worldgonewrong,

Beautifully said!

And I think you Pierce avatar from M*A*S*H is great.

[ComingInHot]

LadyGrey;

It makes me I'll too!

And the fact that looking back you can absolutely See the manipulation just makes you ( well ME) feel like an idiot.

But isn't that the cruel, sadiatic thing w/manipulation? If someone is good at it, it Isn't seen...

[SmokeRat]

That quote from worldgonewrong above, was horrible for me.

 

I openly admit I have a subtype of 'White Knight Syndrome', not to the extent of needing validation from the things I do to help people, but from an inate need to simply 'fix' everyone.

 

I tried so hard to help my wife, with her health and her demons. But everytime I tried and asked what else I could do, she'd throw me the cliche 'Nothing'.

 

I hate that word.

[beenburned]

CIH,

 

Thank you for this thread! I'm late responding due to being very busy lately.

 

I agree with everything that all the other posters listed but I would like to expand on that.

 

Not only did H manipulate me while cheating, but he also manipulated my future by deliberately being against all of my personal decisions!

 

One example: I was offered a promotion (lots more money) but it did involve some travel. And if you moved on up the ladder, you might at some point have to move out of state. My H's reaction to this info was to yell "I'm not moving for anybody" and "I don't want a wife that has to travel for her job".

 

There are many more examples that clearly show H constantly trying to arrange his life exactly like he wanted it. I see now with hindsight he never had my best interests at heart, it was all about him manipulating others to get his way.

[ComingInHot]

beenburned,

You've been missed! Right w/you on the crazy busy thing

 

I never even thought of manipulation in terms of the future but I see what you're saying.

 

Anyhow... welcome back in, you were missed!!

[stevie_23]

the manipulation (gaslighting) occurs when they tell you how miserable they are and how imperfect you are. If you're prone to guilt and prone to problem-solving, you want to 'fix' those things. So you make the mistake of asking them, practically on your knees, "What can I do?" and they coldly reply "Nothing". Which is a mindblower.

Meanwhile, they're committing an egregious act behind your back - and they're more flawed than you at that moment. Yet you're the one on your knees begging to solve a problem while another one is being created in secrecy.

It's crazy.

 

Wow. This is so evil, to me.

 

It really IS a form of emotional abuse, to tell your partner you're miserable, that they're the problem, and then that there's nothing they can even do to fix it!? AND they're lying to you at the same time about an affair? OMG!

 

I can't even imagine my partner doing that to me. Telling me they're unhappy and I'm imperfect and the problem. If I am SUCH a problem WHY be with me then!?!? I wouldn't accept that crap. FIX your f**king problem then if I can't do anything about it! If you find me so unsavoury and unpleasant that you're so MISERABLE, then why not leave, ASSHAT!?

 

But if some form of low level emotional abuse, belittling and control had been going on for some time, I can see why you'd become more...guilty, blaming yourself for your partner's unhappy feelings, etc.