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Why is it worse?


azizlight

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Long-time lurker, first-time poster. I can't seem to wrap my head around this at all. I've been married for five years, and thought everything was going well. Found out a month ago that my H had an emotional affair with a "friend" of his from college days. I had met her on a few occasions. I had known that they were always close, and that they talked all the time. I started to suspect more was going on when he couldn't stop texting her, even at church!

 

It turns out that they met once in a hotel and that he performed oral sex on her. I always thought news like this would make me crazy, but I stayed calm. It was like I already knew. :(

 

He admitted it himself, but I didn't believe that's all there was to it. I called her that night on his phone, and asked her myself. Once she realized I was angry and that I knew already, she said the same thing, and the way she described it, it sounded just like him. Just like he is in bed. I knew it was true. He said he felt guilty and afraid to lose me, and I had to think for a few weeks before I told him I wanted to stay together and work on US. Obviously they are not in contact anymore. That was my first rule. He has been amazing since then, and we are actually making progress in a few areas where I thought we were "stuck" before.

 

But I can't get over that one fact: he gave her pleasure (to word it politely) but he didn't take it any further. He didn't try to climax. This is typical of him at home, with me, but i thought that affairs were different. They are about pleasure?!? Why did he risk our marriage and put me through hell if he didn't even get a climax???? It seems worse to me that he wanted to "give" to her. It's unselfish. Is that crazy? Why does this bother me so much more?

Edited by azizlight
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Because perhaps he wanted you to find out.

 

On a subconscious level, he may have recognised that there was something lacking in the marriage.

something you may have been - and are still - completely unaware was missing.

"Affairs" of any kind, are not the cause of break-ups, they're the symptom.

 

when people stray, and look elsewhere for any form of gratification, there are already issues with their own contentment....

 

but he knew having a full-blown sexual liaison with her was even beyond his line to cross....It was too much to risk.... yet this was close enough.

 

Maybe you guys should look into counselling, because if he hasn't expressed any disquiet on his part, for a lack of 'a certain something' in your marriage, then the cause is still there.

 

He may well have been at FAULT for his actions - but the RESPONSIBILITY for the state of your marriage, is down to you both, 50-50. It's constant maintenance, care and upkeep. Taking your eye off the ball, is what invites other factors....

 

This could well be an exercise in making your relationship so much stronger - but remember: Finding the cause, isn't the cure. finding the cause, is just the beginning of the repair.....

 

Good luck.

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Yes, and this is part of it! He insists that there is nothing wrong with us, there never was. He can't explain why he did it. I even broke down and cried in the first days after I found out, and I asked him what I was doing wrong. He has been nothing but cooperative and kind, and he swears he is home to stay. I believe him but I still want to know what he got from her that he couldn't get from me??? He didn't even do anything different with her in bed.

 

We are scheduled to start counseling and I am going to bring all of this up then. One time I told him how I felt (like above) and he said it confused him. He can't figure out why I would wish he'd just used another person for sex. I admit I don't want him to be that kind of person, of course! But I secretly wish I could explain it all by saying he just used her. I can't even tell myself that. He cared about her, and it scares me. :(

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Maybe there is no hidden meaning in him wanting to 'give' to her the same as you.

 

I don't know his reason(s) for betraying you but please don't get hung up on the mechanics of what happened - I think he did what he's used to doing, simple as that.

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There's the possibility he is actually not the monogamous type.

You'll have to ask him - during counselling - whether he can, hand on heart, swear that he will do everything within his power to ever stop anything like this ever happening again - is he capable of being 110% faithful to you, throughout?

 

Does he have it in him to never consider approaching another woman, ever again?

 

If he hesitates, or prevaricates, or has to even think about it - there may be the subconscious 'infidelity gene' bubbling under the surface.

 

I'm not defending him, but monogamy is not a natural human trait.

we're not monogamous creatures, by design. If we were, your father would still be with his first love, and you'd have a different mother (or vice versa.....)

monogamy - and fidelity - are social, moral, ethical and religious impositions we are conditioned to abide by - but our natural programming makes us seek variety.

 

maybe - just maybe - he's a bit of a player - but doesn't even realise it himself.....

 

But he married you, and made a promise.

He vowed to be faithful to you - and he's broken his promise.

That in itself, is a red flag, isn't it?

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Taramaiden, it's funny, but I always felt like that, too. My H was the one who wanted the big church wedding. We were very young when we started dating, and neither of us was ever with anyone else in bed. I loved him enough to make that promise and I never looked back. I haven't even looked at another guy. I was always afraid I would be the one who was tempted.

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well... if you are - were - the only woman he'd ever been with, and you started young.... no offence, but neither of you had the chance to diversify, dabble, experiment, and find other avenues of relationship dynamics to discover....

 

I repeat, I'm not making excuses for him - but there seems to be a lot more coming up, from below the surface, than the original "He had oral sex with a friend"...

 

Do you see my point....? :)

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Maybe there is no hidden meaning in him wanting to 'give' to her the same as you.

 

I don't know his reason(s) for betraying you but please don't get hung up on the mechanics of what happened - I think he did what he's used to doing, simple as that.

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[[/b]

 

It turns out that they met once in a hotel and that he performed oral sex on her. I always thought news like this would make me crazy, but I stayed calm. It was like I already knew. :(

 

But I can't get over that one fact: he gave her pleasure (to word it politely) but he didn't take it any further. He didn't try to climax. This is typical of him at home, with me, but i thought that affairs were different. They are about pleasure?!? Why did he risk our marriage and put me through hell if he didn't even get a climax???? It seems worse to me that he wanted to "give" to her. It's unselfish. Is that crazy? Why does this bother me so much more?

 

 

I'm with Silly ... Some men get their pleasure by giving woman pleasure. He was like that with her because it's who he is.

 

In my experience these men are gorgeous to stumble over and they are usually good and attentive partners .... Until they get bored, or don't get enough validation from their spouse/lover (because after all, this behavior indicates that wht drives these men sexually is the validation they receive fromd their sex partner) and then they go looking for where else they can get that validation from.

 

Your man needs to grow up and learn that you don't give just so you can get and that until he learns to validate his own behavior and choices he's never going to be satisfied.

 

Good luck.

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FelicityShot
There's the possibility he is actually not the monogamous type.

You'll have to ask him - during counselling - whether he can, hand on heart, swear that he will do everything within his power to ever stop anything like this ever happening again - is he capable of being 110% faithful to you, throughout?

 

Does he have it in him to never consider approaching another woman, ever again?

 

If he hesitates, or prevaricates, or has to even think about it - there may be the subconscious 'infidelity gene' bubbling under the surface.

 

I'm not defending him, but monogamy is not a natural human trait.

we're not monogamous creatures, by design. If we were, your father would still be with his first love, and you'd have a different mother (or vice versa.....)

monogamy - and fidelity - are social, moral, ethical and religious impositions we are conditioned to abide by - but our natural programming makes us seek variety.

 

maybe - just maybe - he's a bit of a player - but doesn't even realise it himself.....

 

But he married you, and made a promise.

He vowed to be faithful to you - and he's broken his promise.

That in itself, is a red flag, isn't it?

 

What actually is a red flag here if we take what you say as given? Monogamy? Striving to fit in with norms? Combining these cultural messages with the genes story?

 

You are saying we have a non-monogamous gene, and yet a good proportion of us suggest we should strive for this? Like a left hander should strive to write with the 'right' hand?

 

I expect we also have monogamous genes to do with loyalty and what not.

 

Such a beautifully conflicted species, I am starting to see why LS exists.

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Azizlight,

 

It strikes me that your husband needs to be wanted. I'll bet he actually prides himself on his ability to give oral. Therefore it makes sense that he would use his best techniques on this girl in order for him to ensure he appears as desirable as possible. He wants to be wanted.

 

I mean ZERO disrespect at this next statement. Read it with an open mind. From what I have heard from lady friends, guys with "smaller" equipment get better with thier oral as a way to compensate. This fits with the "just oral" story they both gave you. If your husband is in his mind "smaller" down there, he would keep it in his pants and just wow her with his oral skills. He may just be a bit insecure with his manhood.

 

If my guess is wrong, and he is well hung... then (in my opinion) they definately had sex and are lying to you.

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What actually is a red flag here if we take what you say as given? Monogamy? Striving to fit in with norms? Combining these cultural messages with the genes story?

 

You are saying we have a non-monogamous gene, and yet a good proportion of us suggest we should strive for this? Like a left hander should strive to write with the 'right' hand?

 

I expect we also have monogamous genes to do with loyalty and what not.

 

We're mammals. We're animals.

We also have a far more advanced brain and vocal system than any other animal on the planet.

So we're at the top intellectually, but that doesn't mean we can eliminate our own inherent, inbuilt, existent animal instincts.

What we've done, is rationalise them, override them, and we have used culture, upbringing, custom, religious ethics, morals and reason to rationalise things.

 

I don't want to take this off topic, but while we attribute much of our behaviour to decisions we make, sometimes, these decisions are also unconsciously affected by what our 'animal instincts' are urging us to do.

That's not a cop-out and a ready excuse for humans to cheat, and say - "hey, I couldn't help it, I'm in my prime and need the action!" but it might explain why some humans are able to remain faithful and others can't.

 

By the way, this isn't my hair-brained theory.

The likes of Desmond Morris and other educated minds have explained this - and it's not a theory - it's fact.

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Summer Breeze

Just reading the OP I almost think the thing that bothers you so much is no that he didn't climax but that he did to someone else what was supposed to be reserved for you and you alone. His intimate actions with you should never be repeated with someone else and they were. I think you can factor in what LFH said about your perception of what an A is as well.

 

I think you've said he admitted the A to you? To me that is a huge thing. The one concern is that if he was going to admit it he may well have told her. It may been an innocent R and got out of hand that one time. They may have regretted it, they colluded and got the stories straight, and then he told you. I still am so happy if he was the one that confessed because to me that is a huge thing.

 

Also you said he promised he's home to stay. The question is, do you want him home. No matter if admitted or got caught he cheated on you. My concern is that if they were good friends for a number of years and had a strong bond it might just come about again. A lot of people don't see the harm in staying friends. My opinion -- that doesn't work.

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...these decisions are also unconsciously affected by what our 'animal instincts' are urging us to do. That's not a cop-out and a ready excuse for humans to cheat, and say - "hey, I couldn't help it, I'm in my prime and need the action!" but it might explain why some humans are able to remain faithful and others can't.

 

By the way, this isn't my hair-brained theory. The likes of Desmond Morris and other educated minds have explained this - and it's not a theory - it's fact.

 

It isn't fact TM. In my opinion that position is full of holes. Desmond Morris is a evolutionist who believes mankind evolved from a lower base. If one believes there wasn't intelligent thought behind our creation, then everything -like the very concept of right and wrong- flies out the window.

 

A degree isn't needed to understand something can't come from nothing.

 

As for your situation OP, your hubby's actions have moved him out of the realm of trust and into a position of constantly having to prove himself via actions. Only those who have not stepped out can retain the strength of their promise; the proof is in the pudding. His promises are empty.

 

Some people can live with that. Some can 'reset' their faith and have the patience to regrow trust. Others can't. That promise is a one time deal.

 

My best in your quest for happiness.

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"I'm home to stay".... yeah. That's very likely how he feels TODAY. But what about six months from now... how about next year? What about the phase of your relationship where things are in a boring lull? or someday you are pregnant? or work sends you away on a training? or... I think you see where I am going with this.

 

I'm sure he is very genuine right now about his dedication to you and you alone. Someday after you forgive him, he will be comfortable and secure in his relationship. Don't be naive enough to think these things don't cycle back around.

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It isn't fact TM. In my opinion that position is full of holes. Desmond Morris is a evolutionist who believes mankind evolved from a lower base. If one believes there wasn't intelligent thought behind our creation, then everything -like the very concept of right and wrong- flies out the window.

 

There was no intelligent thought behind our creation, and Desmond Morris is right, and you are wrong. As you said, your statement is mere opinion, whereas his findings follow a scientific, exploratory route, based on multi-national research carried out by Naturalists, archaeologists and scientists world-wide....

And there I intend to leave it, because we shall never agree. I am not a Christian, and reject the ideas propounded by those who refuse to acknowledge science as a credible base, while putting all their belief eggs in an unprovable novel basket of fantastic stories.

 

A degree isn't needed to understand something can't come from nothing.

Nobody has ever suggested it did. Which just goes to demonstrate how little you know.

 

FINIS.

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Thanks very much for all the feedback! I think one of the sticking points is something another poster (forgot which, sorry) said: that I feel like that act is something he does for ME and that sharing it was shocking to me. The affair didn't shock me but that did. It's like something special we had is lost because it isn't special anymore.

 

Or like I'M not special anymore. His AP is the kind of woman everybody always thought he would end up with. I knew they talked about a lot of things he couldn't talk about with me, because they share a profession and educvation. I tried not to let it bother me because I talk to my girlfriends about a lot of things I don't talk about with him. I thought sex was the one thing we had to ourselves. The one thing I had over her is gone. That sounds competive, maybe, but sometimes that's how I feel. I want to be special and I want to be the "winner". I am his W, so I thought I already was. :(

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Or like I'M not special anymore. His AP is the kind of woman everybody always thought he would end up with. I knew they talked about a lot of things he couldn't talk about with me, because they share a profession and educvation. I tried not to let it bother me because I talk to my girlfriends about a lot of things I don't talk about with him. I thought sex was the one thing we had to ourselves. The one thing I had over her is gone. That sounds competive, maybe, but sometimes that's how I feel. I want to be special and I want to be the "winner". I am his W, so I thought I already was. :(

 

this is so eloquent it moved me to tears.

I really don't know what to say to be of comfort to you - and normally - I am not lost for words.

 

Does he know this?

Have you said this to him, exactly? I mean, Exactly this?

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Men and women see things so differently and this is Magnified when the subject is Infidelity. If you read here enought you will see that even what constitutes an affair is seen differently by men vs women. I know you know this...but Im reiterating it because its important to your question.

 

It seems that Men are more heartbroken/upset/angry when their wife has sex with another man.

Women are more heartbroken/upset/angry when their husband has feelings for another woman. Even if its just perceived.

 

At the same time... a husband can have sex with someone else and admit cheating but Not understand that his wife's main hurt is from the emotional betrayal.

 

When this happened to me...I felt like my H (now ex) did not understand what he did and I was even more insulted that the act of cheating itself, seemed so unimportant to him.

 

To you, it feels like he shared a piece of his real self with someone else...To him he did something that has not much to do with his real life.

Our definitions of Intimacy are different.

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