crysiet Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 My relationship choices can be very controversial. I do believe in marriage. I think it is good to have someone by your side to love you for life. I would want to love my husband more than anything, but let him have his fun. I know that is one of the biggest deals to men when they think about marriage--- whether they can handle just having sex with them for the rest of their lives. I know a lot of people would never put up with their lover cheating on them, but I believe different. I believe sex (which is good) is superficial and more physical than anything. I know a lot of people might think different, that it is something special to be shared with someone special. But do people really act that way? Why is it ok to screw somebody just because you are dating them? Does that make them special or just another lover? It is better than him cheating behind my back because I would arrange the person and time and even get to find out how it goes. Worse yet he could stay loyal and live without passion. As long as he promised to love only me (and yes everyone know it is possible to have sex with someone and not love them) then I would let him. He would have to let me too. This way there would be no secrets be no lies about sexual feelings. Go ahead, vent on how I sin........ Link to post Share on other sites
dyermaker Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 It's not about sin, it's not our place to judge you. You're just some random person out there in the abyss of the information superhighway, who obviously isn't going to change their mind based on our judgements. You claim that sex is superficial and physical, and that's a sad concession. I believe you are missing out on emotional and intimate bonds that not only enhance the feeling of sex, but the connection shared as well. Have you put your theory into practice? Were you ever abused, when you were younger? Link to post Share on other sites
Author crysiet Posted January 31, 2004 Author Share Posted January 31, 2004 Originally posted by dyermaker Were you ever abused, when you were younger? actually I somewhat was. I get how you can relate those but..... Link to post Share on other sites
jenny Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 ok; it could be a victim state; or it could be that you are exceptionally open minded. not everyone on earth thinks monogamy is ideal; it is a limited philosophy that has been naturalized and normalized. read literature; it's rife with the thoughts of those who think conventional life and sexuality is limited, at best. history, ditto. philosophy, threefold. we have this one system; a departure from it need not indicate dysfunction. i have a number of artist friends who choose to live differently. gay people have chosen to live differently for decades, even centuries. but if you are making a sad compromise with monogamy, that's a different kitten. if you are headed toward victim status, and that's just pathos, and unworthy of short stories. so where are you on this spectrum? Link to post Share on other sites
dyermaker Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 Originally posted by crysiet actually I somewhat was. I get how you can relate those but..... But what. Jenny makes interesting points, but if you truly see sex as detached from intimacy, under some guise of love and understanding, I think it's not applicable to your situation. Abuse as a child rewires you, emotionally, and I got that abuse 'vibe' from reading your posts, that you detach yourself from intimacy, almost in resignation. Link to post Share on other sites
jenny Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 yeah, honestly, i kind of do as well. i like unconventional kittens but i think such hopefulness might be misplaced here. this post hurts. i notice because not many posts do; and posts that hurt indicate an alienation from common philosophy rather than a conscious departure from them. answer dyermaker, please... babies, what brought you to this state of submission? what will you do about it in the future? hugs and support, j Link to post Share on other sites
EnigmaXOXO Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 LOL…I don’t think you’re going to “hell,” and as far as “sin,” that concept is relative according to your own personal religious/spiritual beliefs. I feel, if a couple truly finds happiness and contentment with the relationship lifestyle they choose, then it makes little difference what anyone else might think. So long as BOTH parties are in agreement and no one is left uninformed. It’s ‘dishonesty’ and lack of ‘mutual respect’ that destroys relationships and causes pain. Adultery is merely a byproduct when these two important elements are missing. I personally think it may be beneficial that you are able to separate the intimacy of “love” from the physical act of “sex.” Perhaps you are one step closer to figuring out how to avoid relationship conflict and pain later on down the road. Only time will tell. But I am more curious about how you personally define the concept of “love.” You say: “As long as he promised to love only me.” So what does that mean for you? How does a man prove his “love” for you…and what would you consider a breech of “loyalty” within your own definition of a committed relationship ? Also, I’m curious about this statement: It is better than him cheating behind my back because I would arrange the person and time and even get to find out how it goes. What this says to me is that you are actually terrified that someone you love might betray you. The idea of someone cheating scares you to death because it’s something you know is beyond your control. Unable to face the probability that this might happen, you instead try to regain that control by calling the shots and making the “rules.” **YOU** get choose with whom and where it happens…and your partner must inform you of the details so that you can judge whether or not his emotions were involved. So in truth, you haven’t really accepted that blurred line between intimacy and sex. You’re still struggling to define it (to contain it) because you believe its easier for you to find a way to accept it rather than avoid it. …So how off am I??? Link to post Share on other sites
Benedict Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 Don't forgat that the "illicit-ness" of the extra-marital affair is what gives a lot of the charge to spouses who stray. Remove the illicit-ness, and they may not even want to, but some still crave that taboo factor. Link to post Share on other sites
jester Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 This open marriage/open relationship ethos has a long distinguished pedigree. Personally, I suspect it's easier discussed than practiced, but then so are many things--monogamy being one. I like the mutuality of this arrangement --the absence of deceit, deception, double lives, which afflict so many adulterous affairs. Of course, there are risks. One being that you or your partner might just become emotionally involved with the outside sex partner, and then the balance is shot to hell. Also, I'd assume you would also have to be candid up front with third party partners. Some people, however, are able to separate sex from love and have great sex without the halo of intimacy, love and emotional communion. It's called "sport sex." As Woody Allen once observed, "Sex without love may be an empty experience but as empty experiences go, it's not bad." I can live with that. Good luck in your grand experiment in extra-couple pairing. Tell us how it goes. Link to post Share on other sites
EnigmaXOXO Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 Don't forgat that the "illicit-ness" of the extra-marital affair is what gives a lot of the charge to spouses who stray. Remove the illicit-ness, and they may not even want to, but some still crave that taboo factor. Good point, Benedict! But isn't the ""illicit-ness" removed once you've given your partner permission to seek sexual gratification outside of the relationship? If you come to accept that infidelity is an unavoidable factor in a relationship, and agreed that it would not constitute a relationship "deal-breaker" for you ... then why not accept it FULLY. What else would be gained by knowing the details of your partner's sexual encounters --- the whos, whys and wheres? Wouldn't it be contradictory to give your partner sexual freedom while at the same time asserting some false sense of control over their actions and emotions by establishing ‘rules?’ Unless, of course, you were concerned about the impact these outside sexual encounters might have on your primary relationship. As Jester pointed out: Of course, there are risks. One being that you or your partner might just become emotionally involved with the outside sex partner, and then the balance is shot to hell. Yep, as much as we hate to admit it, none of us will ever be able to control or govern the actions and feelings of another human being. No matter how many boundaries we set or rules we make. No matter how much we love someone, how well we treat them, or how much freedom we give … we will always remain emotionally vulnerable and at risk of being hurt. Not a darn thing any of us can do about that! Link to post Share on other sites
Author crysiet Posted January 31, 2004 Author Share Posted January 31, 2004 I actually wanted to see other peoples view on this. I have never had other opinions besides a counselor (who does think I was abused more than I actually was). I remember this one time in eighth grade, my friends told the school counselor something and it messed up a lot of things. My dad got in trouble with the Children Youth and Family and my parents got mad at me because they thought I had told. See it was no one elses business what happened at home and no one else needed to know. I dont believe this made me a victim or anything. I believe emotional sex is overrated. It is actually like a sport, you choose who you play it with, when, and you can be good or bad. I dont believe intimacy is greatly tied to sex. Maybe I do detach myself from intimacy, but I believe I am lucky for this. I can have sex and not get attached. This is not a bad thing, men do it all the time and no one thinks something is wrong with them. I dont need intimacy to feel good. In a relationship, I need love, which to me is serene, it doesnt change or surprise you, its just something steady you can always count on. I would much rather have comfort and happiness than "intimacy". I think that by doing this, I will get hurt less than if I had a "normal" relationship. I dont believe there is any way to completely avoid being hurt, but I think I can deal with it better this way. Maybe he wont want to cheat if I give him the option because it is different than the mind set of an affair. That would be ideal. Maybe he will still want to do it behind my back, but that would kill me. I would want to have somewhat a say so in who he does it with, but not complete control. I just hope its with some slut that doesnt have the kind of personality one can love. I have not yet tried this, because I wait a while before I tell my boyfriend about it. I only told once and he was completely mortified. Were are no longer together, of course. So ever since then I have told my guys right off the bat so I dont waste my time. My boyfriend before was ok with it but we broke up (unrelated reasons) ever before we could try it. Does this explain some? Link to post Share on other sites
Kat Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 And if in sleeping with someone else, which you think is ONLY physical, he falls in love with them and leaves you. Where does that leave you? Think about it, don't be so stupid as to allow your relationship to become a group sex session Link to post Share on other sites
EnigmaXOXO Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 I dont need intimacy to feel good. In a relationship, I need love, which to me is serene, it doesnt change or surprise you, its just something steady you can always count on. I would much rather have comfort and happiness than "intimacy". And there is the conundrum! Relationships are always in the process of evolving and changing as are the people who continue to grow and change within them. The only constant in any relationship is that you can be sure there is another shift, hurdle or “surprise” waiting just around the corner. The survival of any relationship depends on the flexibility and perseverance of the two people involved, and their ability to overcome those obstacles and changes together and find common ground. Facing adversity, and meeting those challenges as a united front is what solidifies the bond between two people and takes that relationship beyond that of a sexual one. And the unavoidable byproduct of this team effort is “intimacy.” Failure on either partner’s part to achieve this level of “intimacy” results in the ultimate breakdown of the relationship. I understand how you might equate “love” with comfort, stability and security. There are many people who remain trapped in unhappy relationships for the very reasons above…but by their own admission; they are no longer “in love.” The only way to open yourself up to real love, is to expose yourself to all the risks and uncertainties that come with it. Unfortunately, there is no way you can achieve one without enduring the other… Link to post Share on other sites
Girlie Posted January 31, 2004 Share Posted January 31, 2004 Whatever type of relationship you want is personal, and totally up to you. However, I can't help but wonder from the tone of your email if you are doing this because you want to or just out of fear that he'll do it anyway and you'll get hurt. I don't think the latter is a sign of a healthy relationship. If you both truly want things "open," that's your business and no one elses. I personally don't like open relationships because it has been my experience that they can often lead to pain and jealousy as much as cheating and lieing do. But again, that's just my experience. I do not think that an open relationship is something that should be entered into out of fear that someone will cheat. Like I said, that just doesn't even sound healthy. It's like saying, "I don't trust you at all anyway, so I'm just going to let you do what I think you'll probably end up doing even if you didn't have my permission." Link to post Share on other sites
Author crysiet Posted February 1, 2004 Author Share Posted February 1, 2004 Im not saying I would join in or anything. I know relationships change over time, but if my relationships change Id like it to be naturally. Not a change that I caused or he caused. I dont trust most men because I know how they are more than most women. Im not the kind of person to say "Oh my god I cant believe I caught my husband looking at porn. I thought he would never do that to me" I know better. Link to post Share on other sites
Kat Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 You are too scared to accept you are worth a relationship which is between two people which doesn't involve (or accept) cheating, because it 'could happen one day' and you will 'get hurt anyway' so 'why not let it happen from the beginning' That is like commiting suicide and saying 'Well we are going to die anyway, might as well be now' Link to post Share on other sites
Author crysiet Posted February 1, 2004 Author Share Posted February 1, 2004 Suicide is much different. It is horrible and I believe there is always something to live for. I know Ill get hurt one day so I deal with it now is that so bad? Link to post Share on other sites
Kat Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 So you admit that you don't consider yourself worthy of a monogomous relationship so you will just accept that all men cheat and live accordingly. Dont' you see how bad that is? You can't stop things happening, but you don't have to live your life to accept the bad 'just incase it happens'. We are all worthy of a loving and trusting relationship where we don't have to share that person. Find a man who believes that too, who won't cheat on you, and who won't treat you second best. You can't stop people from cheating on you, but you can make it bloody clear that you won't accept it Link to post Share on other sites
Author crysiet Posted February 1, 2004 Author Share Posted February 1, 2004 How can it be so wrong that he cheats. If its only sex then I dont mind. I just couldnt handle him loving someone else. Link to post Share on other sites
emptinesshere Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 You are setting yourself up for pain! No matter how much you tell yourself that it would not bother you! IT will some time, some day! It could also haunt you! You can have sex without love, YES .. But I think there is a possibility that great sex can sooner or later be mistaken for love and that could leave you by-yourself.. Link to post Share on other sites
SoleMate Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 Sex can lead to love. There are many ways of cheating. It is better to trust and be betrayed, than never to have trusted...as long as he does not empty out the joint account. Link to post Share on other sites
jester Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 It is better to trust and be betrayed, than never to have trusted...as long as he does not empty out the joint account. Now that's the best advice I've read on LoveShack in a long time. Link to post Share on other sites
reservoirdog1 Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 I know Ill get hurt one day so I deal with it now is that so bad? That's one of the saddest things I've ever heard. By sad I mean "unhappy", not pathetic. It seems to me that by allowing your partner to cheat without consequences, you're dooming yourself to only being partly happy. Unless, of course, somehow over time you grow to accept the cheating as an ongoing part of your life and manage to be happy in that situation, but I would think that would take a lot of soul searching and years to get used to. I have pretty much the worst relationship story of anybody I know (though certainly not of people on this and other boards... however bad your own situation, there's always somebody worse off than yourself). I married in 1996, and was happy until August 3, 2003. I thought I was in a great marriage. On that evening, however, TBXW sat me down and told me that she'd been secretly unhappy for almost the entire marriage (with the exception of when she was pregnant or we had newborn children in the house). She'd had one affair during the engagement, an 8-month one that started 6 weeks after we swore our vows, and another in 2000. Turns out, I wasn't what she needed in order to be happy, so the marriage could never have worked. We've separated and will be divorcing. I've been fortunate up to this point in my life that I've never had to grieve over the death of anybody really close to me. As a result, in the last six months I've experienced more devastation and agony than I ever had before. I trusted that woman with my life and my feelings, and she risked one and trampled on the other. I know that there is the possibility that I'll get hurt again in another relationship. But that has not impacted my desire to find another one. It hasn't impacted my intention to trust the next woman I'm with (I'm seeing somebody right now). In my view, it's not possible to be in a relationship without running the risk of getting hurt. Besides, you have to keep something else in mind: by allowing your SOs to cheat on you, you're only POSSIBLY avoiding ONE kind of hurt. What if your SO doesn't cheat on you, but one day suddenly announces that he's leaving because he's just not happy in the relationship, even though you are? Your acceptance of cheating won't have been able to prevent that. There's not really a way to "deal with that now." The breaking of sexual trust is a kick to the gut, no doubt about it. But you deserve to have that trust in your life. Don't sell yourself short or accept less than you deserve, just to maybe, hopefully ward off one particular kind of pain. The others are still out there, and the risk of them can only be mitigated by avoiding relationships altogether. And who wants to do that? Love like you've never been hurt... Link to post Share on other sites
dyermaker Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 Kat is SOO Right! The reason you feel this way is because your trust was betrayed at a young age, whether you think it's that big of a deal or not, it's on a subconscious level. Now that your trust was betrayed, you think that by modifying your relationships to "limit" the pain, you are going to save yourself from heartbreak. What you're really doing is depriving yourself of a meaningful intimate relationship. Sure, it's "safe", but at what expense? Link to post Share on other sites
BlockHead Posted February 1, 2004 Share Posted February 1, 2004 crysiet I think it is good to have someone by your side to love you for life.Excellent! He loves you. crysiet I would want to love my husband more than anything, but let him have his fun.You either love him or you don’t. crysiet It is better than him cheating behind my back because I would arrange the person and time and even get to find out how it goes.This is the game and here are the rules. No cheating. Link to post Share on other sites
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