Next steps?

[Kidd]

Not sure where to start.

 

About 2 months ago, my wife told me that she was considering separation. We've been together 17 years, married 11, two kids who are 8 and 4. She said she had been unhappy for about 2 years and put a lot of blame on me being unhappy in my job, complacent at home, etc.. The hardest part was that she needed some time to figure out if it was just too late. Devastated doesn't begin to express what a mess I was inside. I spent three weeks in limbo, pulled a good 180, and got her to recommit to the marriage and marriage counseling. But things didn't add up and I reluctantly bought a GPS tracker, put it in her car and caught her going to a hotel during work hours. With some creative snooping, I found she had stayed at this hotel 17 times in the previous 11 months or so. I started documenting for a divorce and had a consult with an attorney but within a few days ended up confronting her when she was talking about how much she was "trying." I found myself in the odd position of comforting her while she broke down and apologized. That was about 5-6 weeks ago.

We've been working on reconciliation ever since. She has had an IC, I have one now, too and we have a third for MC. She has answered any and all questions and thus I know the affair was more like 30 times over a 13 month period and that it was with her boss. My wife is very successful at work, soon likely to move into an executive level position after nearly 20 years with a Fortune 100 company. I gave her 3 days to commit to no physical contact of any kind with the OM, no emotional contact either (just business related discussions), 3 months to no longer work together, and no contact of any kind thereafter. By the end of the day, she agreed to all these terms but was scared that if she had to quit her job or take a demotion that she might be too resentful. This is complete crap, of course, and I said the terms were not altering (and she said she wasn't trying to alter them) but at the time I accepted that she had agreed to the terms. I decided to handle the rest later.

Within a week, I also confronted the OM when he agreed to meet with me. He's married, too, of course. While my wife had broken things off with him and said that he agreed and wanted to move forward and work on his own marriage, I needed to hear his intentions for myself. Long story short, he committed to everything I needed to hear.

I guess I should back up for a second. When I gave my wife my list of demands to avoid immediate divorce, she also made a request that I not tell OM's wife so that he could work on his own marriage. I hated that I felt I was negotiating with her to restore our marriage and her terms were focused on protecting her lover. Ugh. My solution at the time was that I wasn't negotiating this item but that I would just give it to her freely. I didn't know the OMW and was focused on my own problems. I wanted this out of the way and if she were going to reconcile with me, that was going to have nothing to do with protecting him.

Since that time she has done about everything possible to reconcile. She has been remorseful, apologized, avoided any further justification of the affair or blame on me (not even once), has been super affectionate and appreciative, has answered all questions (including a marathon 3 hours where I gave her about 30 tough questions in advance). She gave me permission to snoop and provided passwords that I requested but got very paranoid thinking investigators were tailing her and the few things I've found where I had questions for her were old things from during the affair. In my mind, people can hide his crap, especially since they don't need electronics to communicate or hook up.

I don't have much time to write at the moment so...where I am struggling is with waiting until Aug 1st to change jobs. She can't realistically transfer away from him until probably January. I know how things operate there. And in he meantime, I'm not snooping but it's still too early to trust. Feel like I'm doing it blindly (not healthy). She is truly doing everything possible otherwise and we've been doing remarkably well. While I still think about it all 24/7, the devastation is gone and most of the anger, too. Could use some counsel.

[Owl]

Are you guys doing any kind of marriage counseling? It's something to consider.

 

Try reading a couple of books too.

 

Surviving an Affair. His Needs/Her Needs. The Five Love Languages.

 

All useful tools.

 

Last thoughts. It typically takes 2-5 years to recover a marriage from infidelity. You're just a few months in...realize this is a marathon race, not the 100 meter dash. Pace yourself.

 

Also...snooping isn't a bad thing. You're right, she needs to rebuild trust. She does so by becoming an "open book" and DEMONSTRATING to you that she's trustworthy...and your only way to verify this is to see that her actions match her words.

 

Those are my thoughts at least.

[Bryanp]

I am sorry for what you are going through. First thing is that you both need to get tested for STD's. She put your health at great risk. She is in damage control. You are making a huge mistake by not telling the OM's wife. The message you are giving the OM is that it was fine to take your wife to a hotel during the day and screwing her brains out. In short, there were no consequences to his actions. You know he is laughing before your back but probably also scared. By the way if the roles were reversed do you think your wife would have been so accepting as you have been? She sounds like she is in damage control.

She showed absolutely no respect for you and your marriage. It seems evident that if she was not caught she would still be screwing this OM. What a great role model for your children. If you do not respect yourself then who will? I wish you luck.

[Kidd]

Thanks Owl. Yes, we've been to MC. Every week or two as we can get there. A little too much emphasis on me, my emotions, and how I should look at everything differently. It translates as get over it without barely any discussion of the adultery or lying. We've had four sessions and barely scratched the surface of any of that. I see it as his fault, not hers. It's going well for her because she's barely confronted there. Still being patient with it.

 

Will pick up SAA. Been a lurked here and on MB for a while. Read one other book but this one looks like a prerequisite.

 

Otherwise, I'm sure I'm hoping to defy the 2-5 year rule. Not sure we have that in us but I know the other options are no better.

 

Suppose I will occasionally snoop when I feel it's merited but there's no way to regulate her taking a long lunch with him which was their pattern. She would avoid the tech stuff and using her car since she knows about the GPS and that I'm good with computers. Would like to give this marriage a legitimate 2nd chance without constantly reminding her of the A. Wresting with this still, I suppose. Just because I can do it and be justified doesn't mean it would be the right thing to do (or be effective).

 

My biggest question now is about exposing the OM to his wife to get more assurance that they won't slip but then the OM's W is a wild card I can't control. If she exposes this at their work, it'll be a mess caused in some part by me breaking my word.

[Owl]

Kidd...don't let the random posters get you down.

 

You've chosen to work on rebuilding your marriage...and there's nothing wrong with that choice.

 

It's the internet...you'll get some virtiol...just report it and drive on.

[Owl]

You made my day, LC. Actually got me laughing out loud! Thanks for that...and goodbye!

[reboot]

You made my day, LC. Actually got me laughing out loud! Thanks for that...and goodbye!

 

I thought I was the only one that thought he was funny.

[mark982]

kidd, i can see tring to save your marriage. but cheated 30 x's . for one thing, i would try someone else for mc. this one sounds terrible, or is it someone your wife "found"? i'm quite sure that being a fortune 100 company they have rules about bosses and underlings having affairs. i sure would hang this over his head, but personally i don't think the affairs over! just yes sirring you so you will keep your mouth shut.

[What_Next]

Owl, you certainly are not alone in thinking his posts are humorous. I had commented on one in another thread that was almost unreadable. His complete lack of command of the English language is simply gut busting. Reminds me of reading what my child wrote in the third grade.

 

Anyway, Kidd, honestly you are in a tough spot. From my perspective there have been little consequences from her actions and his. Personally I think not telling his wife is pure bu____t. Period. I would NOT be able to put up with that. If the affair is truly over then she would not much care one way or the other what happens to her affair partner.

 

MC, well that's lost on me. Been there, did that, think it's all a steaming pile of (see my previous paragraph...). It does sound to me like your MC is not handling the situation properly though. Remember councilors are not absolute, there are good ones and there are bad ones. I would find one skilled in dealing with the aftermath of affairs.

 

I have to agree with mark982, are you sure the affair is over?

 

Good luck, no matter what you decide, and for the record it IS OK to say NO, I cannot get over this and we must divorce, but you must decide that for yourself.

[nyrias]

good bye what im not going anywhere, make your jokes just because you have no forms of comebacks all u want. At the end of the day your giving this guy some crappy advice based on your mistakes you made.

 

I came to this site cause i was sick of hearing people taking back cheaters and getting their hearts broken again and again its not fair and the amount of users on this site which promote reconciliation is disgusting.

 

keep your unhappiness to yourselfs you have made your own beds and lie in them, dont spread crap to others it definately not wanted.

 

This particular study has shown that infidelity is cited as the #1 cause of divorce.

 

http://jfi.sagepub.com/content/24/5/602.short

 

Given the high divorce rate, obviously many are NOT taking back cheaters. You should take some consolation in that fact.

[Snowflower]

This particular study has shown that infidelity is cited as the #1 cause of divorce.

 

http://jfi.sagepub.com/content/24/5/602.short

 

Given the high divorce rate, obviously many are NOT taking back cheaters. You should take some consolation in that fact.

 

I did not see where this study mentioned whether or not the betrayed spouses tried to forgive or reconcile first before proceeding toward divorce. It just cited divorce statistics where infidelity was involved--not the efforts, if any, by the BS and the WS to try to reconcile first.

 

You (whoever that it is) should take some consolation in that. Hope you find that helpful OP.

[nyrias]

I did not see where this study mentioned whether or not the betrayed spouses tried to forgive or reconcile first before proceeding toward divorce. It just cited divorce statistics where infidelity was involved--not the efforts, if any, by the BS and the WS to try to reconcile first.

 

You (whoever that it is) should take some consolation in that. Hope you find that helpful OP.

 

Nope. I cannot find that particular statistics. That is why my statement has no claim of the rate of reconciliation.

 

I only say that the divorce rate is high, and that infidelity is the #1 reason to divorce. Thus, given the high number of divorces, many divorces are caused by infidelity. Thus, many spouse dumped the cheaters (and of course many cheaters dump the BS too .. no way to know which is which).

 

Which at least is a sliver of evidence that many cheaters are dumped, without knowing the exact percentage.

[In Like Flynn]

Your wife asked you not to tell really for only one reason and that is to protect the OM. Don't for one minute think that this affair just stopped on a dime after discovery. They talk and console each other at work etc she just doesn't admit it.

 

Affairs need to be destroyed not covered up with a sheet and hope it goes away. The OM's wife can be your greatest ally in stopping at the very least the continued EA part of the affair that still smolders in the background. He will throw your wife under the bus when exposed and show her his true colors, but right now he is still the good guy etc.

 

This is a very dangerous time for your marriage still and every decision or lack of one can have a catastrophic effect longterm. The wife deserves to know just like you did!!

[Kidd]

Spent quite a while typing responses to everyone that were promptly lost when I had to log back in. Not retyping it all.

 

Appreciate the responses, even the tough ones. Told my wife this morning that I was going to need more than just her word to trust her. She was bummed (had come to give me a hug and see if I was ok and got this instead) but asked what I needed and I told her I wasn't yet sure. I want her to tell me what her plan is to rebuild trust with me. Some kind of oversight has to happen. There have been too few consequences and it's been too quick to blindly trust (which won't really ever happen).

 

One quick thing I'll retype...When I confronted the OM, I made it clear that I expected his #1 job in life would be to find her another job. Also made it clear that it would be easy for me to discuss this with his boss as well as his wife. Haven't completely lost my set. If things go south, I wouldn't hesitate. There are no 3rd chances. I've lurked around these sites to see too many multiple d-days, trickle-truthing, and false reconciliations to be a fool.

 

I'm trying to determine if there is a way to get balanced somewhere between hyper/paranoid/crazy surveillance (which is what would be required to really "verify" anything when you can't really control anyone) and trusting. Is there a way to give my marriage second chance and still respect myself. Seems to me that I'll know better over time and I'll likely detect any nonsense since I'm much more attuned to watching for it.

[dale_gribble]

She needs to quit or find another job no matter how successful she is going to be. Those are the consequences of her actions- PLAIN AND SIMPLE. She put herself in that position, now she needs to answer for her actions. You als need to disclose this to OM's wife, so you can be sure he's really working on HIS marriage. As long as she keeps working with/for him, its never going to end. When you say 30 times, does that mean sexcapades? Did you also ask for gory details, because I did and made up my decision right there and then when she told me what they did.

[Spark1111]

Thanks Owl. Yes, we've been to MC. Every week or two as we can get there. A little too much emphasis on me, my emotions, and how I should look at everything differently. It translates as get over it without barely any discussion of the adultery or lying. We've had four sessions and barely scratched the surface of any of that. I see it as his fault, not hers. It's going well for her because she's barely confronted there. Still being patient with it.

 

Will pick up SAA. Been a lurked here and on MB for a while. Read one other book but this one looks like a prerequisite.

 

Otherwise, I'm sure I'm hoping to defy the 2-5 year rule. Not sure we have that in us but I know the other options are no better.

 

Suppose I will occasionally snoop when I feel it's merited but there's no way to regulate her taking a long lunch with him which was their pattern. She would avoid the tech stuff and using her car since she knows about the GPS and that I'm good with computers. Would like to give this marriage a legitimate 2nd chance without constantly reminding her of the A. Wresting with this still, I suppose. Just because I can do it and be justified doesn't mean it would be the right thing to do (or be effective).

 

My biggest question now is about exposing the OM to his wife to get more assurance that they won't slip but then the OM's W is a wild card I can't control. If she exposes this at their work, it'll be a mess caused in some part by me breaking my word.

 

Hi Kidd! Welcome to LS.

 

I think it is impossible to truly work on a marriage if only one spouse has the true facts.

 

That being said, I think it is reasonable to insist to both your wife and the OM that if there is any contact outside of what is absolutely neccessary, you will expose to the wife.

 

That is your trump card so to speak. Make it known to both of them.

 

As for MC, find a new one. Many in this profession believe that both parties should just move on and that is an erroneous belief. Ask the counsellor directly for what his or her plan is to help heal from infidelity. Infidelity must be dealt with FIRST before other issues can be resolved.

 

That being said, the counselors we visited always focused on me and tip-toed initially around my WS. Why? I can only conclude that the cheater is the weaker of the two partners and they do not want to alienate them too soon in the process or they will lose them and consequently, the marriage too.

 

An affair can cause the same brain chemistry as seen in addicts, and withdrawal can be painful. Clairity can only come with time and the regaining of normal brain chemistry. It is another ineqaulity of reconciliation for the BS; not only do we have to bear the betrayal, professionals count on our continued strength to heal the marriage while the WS detoxes from the affair.

[Kidd]

Thanks Spark. Good suggestions and a fresh perspective. Will follow up on these.

 

To answer the question about gory details, I got enough and my imagination is filling in plenty of the blanks. I'm not sure that I can get over the physical part, or the lying. We'll see. I'm good when I'm with her and she's doing everything possible but ready to divorce when we're apart. Too bad people make these mistakes. It's more than any BS should have to bear. 17 years wasted and 2 beautiful kids in the middle is the only other option than this at the moment. What a disaster.

[RobD70]

In situations like this, the real problem comes like 2 years down the road when they cheat again.

 

She hasn’t and it doesn’t sound like she will get any real negative consequences from all of this and once the dust clears will feel she just dodged a bullet. Knowing she basically got away with it once and didn’t come close to getting a divorce she will believe she would be able to pull it off again if the opportunity arises. She has already crossed that boundary once now so the second time will be much easier.

 

I’m not saying she will cheat again but it does happen a lot. I’ve read too many of these stories where the WS didn’t fear a D and ended up having another affair when the BS thinks everything is fine and has their guard down. This is true when the underlining issues that lead to the A are not fully addressed.

 

If it were me, I would file for a divorce BUT not with the intention of actually going through with it. The point is she has to be scared out of her wits that you are leaving her and she has to work her butt off to stop you. She has to feel like you will D her at the drop of a hat if she even sneezes in the direction of the OM.

[dale_gribble]

"Knowing she basically got away with it once and didn’t come close to getting a divorce she will believe she would be able to pull it off again if the opportunity arises."- I somewhat agree with this. But, like I said, she can't continue running into this guy at work anymore. She has to find another job-ASAP! How are you going to know for sure and live in peace while they still cross paths. You have to give her an ultimatum- either you quit and find another position-AWAY- from this person, or its not going to work out.

[Mr.Harris]

I am sorry for what you are going through. First thing is that you both need to get tested for STD's. She put your health at great risk. She is in damage control. You are making a huge mistake by not telling the OM's wife. The message you are giving the OM is that it was fine to take your wife to a hotel during the day and screwing her brains out. In short, there were no consequences to his actions. You know he is laughing before your back but probably also scared. By the way if the roles were reversed do you think your wife would have been so accepting as you have been? She sounds like she is in damage control.

She showed absolutely no respect for you and your marriage. It seems evident that if she was not caught she would still be screwing this OM. What a great role model for your children. If you do not respect yourself then who will? I wish you luck.

 

The fact that she even told him not to tell the innocent wife just shows that she is not remorseful for acting like a child.

[Mr.Harris]

Kidd...don't let the random posters get you down.

 

They're not random. They are human just as you are and your view is not higher than theirs.

 

You've chosen to work on rebuilding your marriage...and there's nothing wrong with that choice.

 

The post that got deleted because of "popular opinion" was true in every aspect. This guy is making a grave mistake trying to reconcile with someone who isn't even remorseful for what she did to him.

[Kidd]

Just to clarify...my wife's story is that she got close to her boss, they discussed their personal lives, both were struggling in their marriages, and then the emotional connection went physical. She said they were many times cheerleaders for each others' marriages and tried to disconnect several times from one another but every failure at home brought them back together. I think she legitimately is glad the affair is over and that both of them can work on their marriages. She is remorseful but doesn't hate him which is what I think people on here are expecting for her to do. Keep in mind, ALL of what she says is delusional fog nonsense but I believe she doesn't want his marriage ruined. Of course, they both don't understand that it is already ruined. I just don't care about him or his marriage. I have my own problems.

 

I definitely agree that the two of them working together is completely unsustainable. She is under an ultimatum deadline and she knows exactly how many days she has left to find another job any time you ask her. I'm trying to honor that deadline and I'm having a hell of a time. I just don't want to play my only card until it is the right time.

[Mr.Harris]

Just to clarify...my wife's story is that she got close to her boss, they discussed their personal lives, both were struggling in their marriages, and then the emotional connection went physical. She said they were many times cheerleaders for each others' marriages and tried to disconnect several times from one another but every failure at home brought them back together. I think she legitimately is glad the affair is over and that both of them can work on their marriages. She is remorseful but doesn't hate him which is what I think people on here are expecting for her to do.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but your wife still works with this loser, right?

 

Keep in mind, ALL of what she says is delusional fog nonsense but I believe she doesn't want his marriage ruined.

She's not in a fog. Nothing is controlling her but herself. But lets use this fog crap for a minute:

 

If you think now that everything that is coming out of her mouth is full of cow dung, then why are you believing that she's "glad" the affair is over?

 

The only thing she's glad about, is that you are easily accepting her back into your graces as if she made a mistake and stepped on your foot. Nothing has changed about her and it never will.

 

She's going to work every day getting wet and excited because she gets to see the married man she's cheating on you with.

 

Years down the line she may actually decide to keep her legs closed, but she'll always secretly from time to time she'll think about the moments she spent with that loser and how she enjoyed every second of it, while telling you she loves you and never stopped loving you.

 

And forever you'll be thinking about how much she hurt you when this problem has died down. Sure you won't think about it constantly like you're doing now but when her back is turned 20 years in the future while she's making some dinner for you, you'll involuntarily sneak an ugly look at her.

 

And that's just half of the problems.

 

Of course, they both don't understand that it is already ruined. I just don't care about him or his marriage. I have my own problems.

Oh they sure do understand the problems they've caused, they just don't care who they hurt. You think the OM told you everything that happened between them? Nope. He probably told you only what you knew and that's it. Same with your wife.

 

She's still working with the punk and that's just more of a reason for you to pack her things and kick them to the curb and file for divorce. She's still seeing that guy every day, working close to him and helping each other file paperwork, best believe they are hugging and kissing, saying how they want to screw again.

 

I definitely agree that the two of them working together is completely unsustainable. She is under an ultimatum deadline and she knows exactly how many days she has left to find another job any time you ask her. I'm trying to honor that deadline and I'm having a hell of a time. I just don't want to play my only card until it is the right time.

You better file for divorce dude. Your story is full of so many red alarms that it's not even funny, and you accepting her back so easily is only making things worse. Kick her out. Every day she's seeing this guy is the day she's actively cheating on you. This affair is not even over. Time for you to start protecting yourself now.

[Bryanp]

You are making a huge mistake in not telling the OM's wife. It is clear that your wife is doing everything she can to protect the OM. Her story to you is ridiculous. They each wanted to work on their marriages but every time there was some problems at home well they just had to go have sex in a hotel for up to 30 times. She is in total damage control. By not telling the OM's wife then there is no problem in the future for it starting up again. Again you must tell the OM's wife or their simply are no consequences to their actions. You are sending a horrible message to him. All 4 of you need to be tested for STD's.

[Kidd]

I'm not sure that I'm trying to force my wife to suffer additional consequences. There has been no free pass for her in this situation other than the 13 months of selfishness that she's now going to pay for probably indefinitely. I've personally witnessed her misery over it for the last 6 weeks and she knows it's not going to end anytime soon. She and the OM are actively trying to find other jobs. I get regular updates as recently as tonight when I reinforced that I was not willing to remain in a marriage where she continues to work with him. I gave her a deadline. She knew that today marked 45 days. I'm not trying to make her miserable. She already is. And I'm not trying to ruin a lifelong career but that's probably going to happen anyway. I understand if reconciliation didn't work for you but it may be possible for us. You can rant about my lack of manhood if you want but I am focused on making decisions of which I am proud. Giving this marriage one more chance is not impossible. It's ridiculously hard. And maybe it won't work. Maybe you're right. I won't know if I don't give it a shot. I agreed to 90 days as a more-than-reasonable attempt to let her maintain a career. She'll do it or she won't. If not, I'll be gone and I'll have wasted 17 years plus 90 days.