jlola Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 A very good friend who has been married for over 10 yrs found out a couple of years ago her husband was having a 2 year affair. Not only that, but he refused to end his affair blaming her behavior and initially telling her he was leaving soon to be with OW. But had to wat.Financially, they could not afford 2 households because they purchased house at a high and had too much to lose. But eventually my friend showed him the door and was willing to lose all since she was sick of his behavior. He then does a 180 and wants to stay in the marriage, but will not go to counselling. She has accepted this. But I keep telling her she is making a grave mistake. I see his personality of one who is very selfish, manipulative,entitled and immature. I also believe MP who are able to carry on an affair longterm have all these traits much more often then someone who does it short term and cannot carry on deceit anymore. They seem to want to have it all and feel entitled. Using up everyone's time and causing lots of heratache n trying to determine what is best for them. I often wonder how anyone can look a spouse in the face and lie everyday for years. make love to them and sleep besides,go to funtions with them, live everyday life knowing in your soul what you are doing. What sort of character does it take to pull that oiff? Would it not just kill you inside to know the deception you are carrying out on another? Would that not be enough to either end the marriage or end the affair?Is there something psychologically wrong with someone who can deceive longterm? Link to post Share on other sites
JaneyAmazed Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 A very good friend who has been married for over 10 yrs found out a couple of years ago her husband was having a 2 year affair. Not only that, but he refused to end his affair blaming her behavior and initially telling her he was leaving soon to be with OW. But had to wat.Financially, they could not afford 2 households because they purchased house at a high and had too much to lose. But eventually my friend showed him the door and was willing to lose all since she was sick of his behavior. He then does a 180 and wants to stay in the marriage, but will not go to counselling. She has accepted this. But I keep telling her she is making a grave mistake. I see his personality of one who is very selfish, manipulative,entitled and immature. I also believe MP who are able to carry on an affair longterm have all these traits much more often then someone who does it short term and cannot carry on deceit anymore. They seem to want to have it all and feel entitled. Using up everyone's time and causing lots of heratache n trying to determine what is best for them. I often wonder how anyone can look a spouse in the face and lie everyday for years. make love to them and sleep besides,go to funtions with them, live everyday life knowing in your soul what you are doing. What sort of character does it take to pull that oiff? Would it not just kill you inside to know the deception you are carrying out on another? Would that not be enough to either end the marriage or end the affair?Is there something psychologically wrong with someone who can deceive longterm? I couldn't do it anymore after 4 months, but not just for the reasons you listed. I just couldn't handle trying to fit two men into my heart. It made me miserable. I hated myself and I couldn't have a good relationship with anyone I loved in my life because of it. I wonder too about those that can carry on for years or more. My dad did that. I love him to death, and I've always been a Daddy's girl but I never have and never will understand how we carried on an affair for 5 years. He never told my mom and stayed married to her for 15 more years until she found out from someone else. Long story. Anyway, anyone who knows my dad just loves him. He's a good man in so many ways and yes, he is remorseful now and I believe he's changed but I still can't wrap my brain around how he could live 2 separate lives all those years. One time my mom told me that he was able to compartmentalize so his R with my mom was a different life than his R with the OW (MW actually). I was never able to do that even in a few months. My "lives" always blended. I couldn't live that way a second longer. Link to post Share on other sites
neveragain1 Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 A very good friend who has been married for over 10 yrs found out a couple of years ago her husband was having a 2 year affair. Not only that, but he refused to end his affair blaming her behavior and initially telling her he was leaving soon to be with OW. But had to wat.Financially, they could not afford 2 households because they purchased house at a high and had too much to lose. its times like this when I almost sympathize with Lorena Bobbit. Link to post Share on other sites
ladydesigner Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 I couldn't do it anymore after 4 months, but not just for the reasons you listed. I just couldn't handle trying to fit two men into my heart. It made me miserable. I hated myself and I couldn't have a good relationship with anyone I loved in my life because of it. I wonder too about those that can carry on for years or more. My dad did that. I love him to death, and I've always been a Daddy's girl but I never have and never will understand how we carried on an affair for 5 years. He never told my mom and stayed married to her for 15 more years until she found out from someone else. Long story. Anyway, anyone who knows my dad just loves him. He's a good man in so many ways and yes, he is remorseful now and I believe he's changed but I still can't wrap my brain around how he could live 2 separate lives all those years. One time my mom told me that he was able to compartmentalize so his R with my mom was a different life than his R with the OW (MW actually). I was never able to do that even in a few months. My "lives" always blended. I couldn't live that way a second longer. The bolded of what you said Janey is what is oh so true for me as well. My RA lasted a whole 6 weeks, but it was making me miserable living 2 lives and all the lying and hiding....Yuck not for me. Guess I couldn't compartmentalize very well. Link to post Share on other sites
trinity1 Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 When I look at my husband's affairs, the short ones were for lust, the long ones for love. He acted the most selfish when carrying out the short affairs in my opinion. The long ones were ones where he was actually debating whether to leave me or not. The short ones were just satisfying a desire on the expense of everyone involved, me, him, the OW. Link to post Share on other sites
Author jlola Posted February 24, 2011 Author Share Posted February 24, 2011 When I look at my husband's affairs, the short ones were for lust, the long ones for love. He acted the most selfish when carrying out the short affairs in my opinion. The long ones were ones where he was actually debating whether to leave me or not. The short ones were just satisfying a desire on the expense of everyone involved, me, him, the OW. Seems all your husbands affairs are selfish. How many did he actually have? I would think the long-term ones, if he was lying to you would be more destructive because they are emotionally based and destroy everyone.BS,OP,MP. More lies, more manipulation for longer periods of time for everyone. How can a triangle live that way? I think it is even more selfish that short term ones where person cannot live with guilt, fesses up and ends it. But your husband seems to be a serial cheater. Not to be disrespectful. But why do you stay? Link to post Share on other sites
xpaperxcutx Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Some people actually derive pleasure from deceiving people. I'm not talking about pathological liars, but there are people who see lying as giving them control. shifting blame is also associated with a power play and making the offener look like a saint. Link to post Share on other sites
ver13 Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 Long or short is not the issue it's the deception that matters when it comes to relationships. The fact that they carry on with it for extended periods of time is just part of their twisted personality. They thrive off of the supposed thrill of the affair and they wallow in the lying and the false promises to everyone involved. I mean anyone who would want to be with someone that left another perons for them is just a jacked up as the cheater and they are being played just like the spouse in the end. The cheater knows no boundaries in relationships and they will never be accountable for anything or to anyone but themselves. Link to post Share on other sites
trinity1 Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 (edited) Seems all your husbands affairs are selfish. How many did he actually have? I would think the long-term ones, if he was lying to you would be more destructive because they are emotionally based and destroy everyone.BS,OP,MP. More lies, more manipulation for longer periods of time for everyone. How can a triangle live that way? I think it is even more selfish that short term ones where person cannot live with guilt, fesses up and ends it. But your husband seems to be a serial cheater. Not to be disrespectful. But why do you stay? I stay because I love him. He is a serial cheater but he has sought help in the twelve step programs. Fessing up the short term ones and then continuing the same behavior doesn't really do it for me, you know. It was taking the step to do something about the behavior by joining SLAA that I saw as a step in the right direction. The times when my husband has actually fallen in love with another woman and contemplated to leave me for her I can not hold against him. I am glad he chose our love in the end. The love he held for them obviously didn't measure up in the long run. Edited February 24, 2011 by trinity1 Link to post Share on other sites
blissfullyoblivious Posted February 24, 2011 Share Posted February 24, 2011 I stay because I love him. He is a serial cheater but he has sought help in the twelve step programs. Fessing up the short term ones and then continuing the same behavior doesn't really do it for me, you know. It was taking the step to do something about the behavior by joining SLAA that I saw as a step in the right direction. The times when my husband has actually fallen in love with another woman and contemplated to leave me for her I can not hold against him. I am glad he chose our love in the end. The love he held for them obviously didn't measure up in the long run. There are so many things wrong with this statement that I do not know where to start. Link to post Share on other sites
bentnotbroken Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 A very good friend who has been married for over 10 yrs found out a couple of years ago her husband was having a 2 year affair. Not only that, but he refused to end his affair blaming her behavior and initially telling her he was leaving soon to be with OW. But had to wat.Financially, they could not afford 2 households because they purchased house at a high and had too much to lose. But eventually my friend showed him the door and was willing to lose all since she was sick of his behavior. He then does a 180 and wants to stay in the marriage, but will not go to counselling. She has accepted this. But I keep telling her she is making a grave mistake. I see his personality of one who is very selfish, manipulative,entitled and immature. I also believe MP who are able to carry on an affair longterm have all these traits much more often then someone who does it short term and cannot carry on deceit anymore. They seem to want to have it all and feel entitled. Using up everyone's time and causing lots of heratache n trying to determine what is best for them. I often wonder how anyone can look a spouse in the face and lie everyday for years. make love to them and sleep besides,go to funtions with them, live everyday life knowing in your soul what you are doing. What sort of character does it take to pull that oiff? Would it not just kill you inside to know the deception you are carrying out on another? Would that not be enough to either end the marriage or end the affair?Is there something psychologically wrong with someone who can deceive longterm? No character what so ever. Link to post Share on other sites
PegNosePete Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 I don't understand how anyone can cheat, period. I mean when I was married even if Tricia Helfer was lying naked in bed saying come get it big boy, I would have said no sorry I am married put that red Cylon dress back on. Seriously it's a totally alien concept to me. I don't get how anyone could actually go through with taking their clothes off and having sex with someone else. It blows my mind that some people can do that. Maybe I'm just an unempathic weirdo Link to post Share on other sites
East7 Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 IMO there are 3 factors involved : 1 - The more there are genuine feelings involved, the more it is difficult to let go, the more the A may last. A lot of MP do love their AP but don't have the guts to move out. WHen it is all about sex it is more likely that the A doesn't last. 2 - Personality strength : the more the APs have strong personalities and not settling for a second-class relationship (AP) or not wanting to deceive anymore (MP), the more likely they are putting quickly an end to the A. 3 - The carrot factor : When the AP starts to slip away, the MP will dangle the carrots "I have talked with my spouse for the D, etc etc" and the R will go on. Link to post Share on other sites
Author jlola Posted February 25, 2011 Author Share Posted February 25, 2011 IMO there are 3 factors involved : 1 - The more there are genuine feelings involved, the more it is difficult to let go, the more the A may last. A lot of MP do love their AP but don't have the guts to move out. WHen it is all about sex it is more likely that the A doesn't last. 2 - Personality strength : the more the APs have strong personalities and not settling for a second-class relationship (AP) or not wanting to deceive anymore (MP), the more likely they are putting quickly an end to the A. 3 - The carrot factor : When the AP starts to slip away, the MP will dangle the carrots "I have talked with my spouse for the D, etc etc" and the R will go on. Eeast7, I have to say i have spoken with men who have affairs with women and it seems all of these women easily fall in love with affair partner. Someone said it is very easy to get married women and I agree. I think married people in general will get into an emotional relationship quickly with AP. This dynamic makes the single person feel really special since in the dating world most people tend not to show their cards quickly. A friend of mine had an affair with a MW. He says they fell in love. The affair lasted for 2 years until he felt too guilty. They were soooooo in love. She was so tortured because of the kids and of course her lufestyle. They broke up. But he still spoke to her and they would get together once in awhile for coffee or lunch. Affair was over. She would tell him he made a mistake. ut he stuck to his guns as he did noit want to feel guilt over the wreckage. Well, now Miss MW is having another affair. Yup, you guessed it. They are sooooo in love and the man is pressuring her to leave her husband. She has agreed and is asking him for time. The hagic number is she wants him to give her 2 years to disengage from her husband. I have a father who is a romantic and a sister who has been married 4x having an affair with each marriage. I have a front row seat on how easy it is for romantic type MP to fall in love with theur affair partner. I think the obstacles, the drama,the romance in affars just adds to the thrill for these people. I often wonder f it is love or if it is just anybody who comes in to fill the drama. I think they are more i love with the idea of love than anything. Link to post Share on other sites
East7 Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 I have to say i have spoken with men who have affairs with women and it seems all of these women easily fall in love with affair partner. "No matter how happily a woman may be married, it always pleases her to discover that there is a nice man who wishes that she was not." - H. L. Mencken A friend of mine had an affair with a MW. He says they fell in love. The affair lasted for 2 years until he felt too guilty. They were soooooo in love. She was so tortured because of the kids and of course her lufestyle. They broke up. But he still spoke to her and they would get together once in awhile for coffee or lunch. Affair was over. She would tell him he made a mistake. ut he stuck to his guns as he did noit want to feel guilt over the wreckage. Well, now Miss MW is having another affair. Yup, you guessed it. They are sooooo in love and the man is pressuring her to leave her husband. She has agreed and is asking him for time. The hagic number is she wants him to give her 2 years to disengage from her husband.lol Anyway, serial MW is not the norm. Serial MM is more widespread. I think they are more i love with the idea of love than anything. I wonder too, if my xMW was in love with the actual me or with the idea of loving me, kind of heartbreaking impossible romantic love. Link to post Share on other sites
StoneCold Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 I often wonder how anyone can look a spouse in the face and lie everyday for years. make love to them and sleep besides,go to funtions with them, live everyday life knowing in your soul what you are doing. What sort of character does it take to pull that oiff? Would it not just kill you inside to know the deception you are carrying out on another? Would that not be enough to either end the marriage or end the affair?Is there something psychologically wrong with someone who can deceive longterm? Man you guys make a **** load of assumptions What kind of person? I dont know; anybody I guess....it all depends on the people involved....what was said...what was done (or not done).....the circumstances and how they interpret them. The funny thing is in many of these situations the person who is cheating may be asking the same question of their spouse with regards to something else that may be just as significant and or hurtful... Link to post Share on other sites
OWoman Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 I often wonder how anyone can look a spouse in the face and lie everyday for years. make love to them and sleep besides,go to funtions with them, live everyday life knowing in your soul what you are doing. Not all Ms are as intimate as you describe. Sometimes they don't see each other (to look each other in the face) because they habitually avoid each other, do not sleep in the same bedroom and last made love when dinosaurs roamed the earth, live entirely separate lives and have never attended functions together in living memory. In which case, the opportunities to lie are very few, and often completely unnecessary. If someone doesn't ask where you've been (if you pass them on their way out, as you're arriving) why would you need to lie? Link to post Share on other sites
OWoman Posted February 25, 2011 Share Posted February 25, 2011 I have to say i have spoken with men who have affairs with women and it seems all of these women easily fall in love with affair partner. Perhaps in that small subset of OWs. I know I have had many As with MMs, and have fallen in love only once, despite several MMs falling in love with me. But then, I guess, your MM friends are the ones who went out looking for the A, not the ones who were approached. IME that makes a huge difference - the one shopping for an A is usually more detached than the one who is approached, or who falls in love and then commences an A. Link to post Share on other sites
Author jlola Posted February 25, 2011 Author Share Posted February 25, 2011 Perhaps in that small subset of OWs. I know I have had many As with MMs, and have fallen in love only once, despite several MMs falling in love with me. But then, I guess, your MM friends are the ones who went out looking for the A, not the ones who were approached. IME that makes a huge difference - the one shopping for an A is usually more detached than the one who is approached, or who falls in love and then commences an A. OWoman, you were not the married person in the affair. But I do believe many MP hyper focus on the "romance" part of the affair, because that is what they feel they are lacking at home in their marriage. For some singles in the affair with them, that fuels their emotions. Also many are sick of the dating world and the romance , sweet words and fantqasy is catchy. I often wonder how someone has to kiss 20 frogs to find a person they feel enough love to marry. But as soon as they marry, the first person they meet willing to get into a romantic relationship with them becomes their "soulmate". Really, what are the odds? As OWoman confirmed many MM she had affairs with fell in love. Now in the real world of dating and competing with other women for top men it would be a rarer occurance. East7, your situation may be different since I understand you and other women had history prior to her marriage. I read this post on another site. Aug 20, 2009 10:13 PM Guest : My ex fiance is a male special ed teacher who works with many unhappy married women. He forms relationships with them by talking about work, being charming, laughing at their jokes. Slowly they start talking personal issues. One will complain about her husband, he gives advice. He seems so nice and a great guy that they start becoming attached. Soon, they are emailing, texting, and calling one another. Then the focus slowly turns away from their marriage and the relationship he is in. Then they meet for drinks because "they are just friends" and then the alcohol slowly breaks down the "we should not be doing this" wall. Flirting starts and then it bleeds into flirting and sexual tension at work. When they start having an emotional bond with someone, it changes the chemicals in their brain. They start fantasizing about each other and comparing them, wrongly, with their partner. They don't know how the other person is truly in their marriage/relationship because they are only telling and showing the other person their good side. Soon, they think you are not as good as their "friend". Thoughts of "I wish i can talk to my wife/husband/gf/bf this way." or "I wish they were this easy to talk to." Soon, they don't realize that they are creating this huge wall and gap of intimacy that they are complaining is missing. They created the monster! Then the marriage or relationship suffers and they EMOTIONALLY ABANDON their partner leaving them feeling unappreciated and unloved. It is a horrible cycle. I do believe you can have opposite friends but there has to be respect. Respect for the other people involved including the kids and family on both sides. If one crosses the line, it is up to the other person to set the boundaries. Sometimes they like the attention and cross the boundaries too. When THAT happens, there is more deception coming. Deception is a form of emotional abuse. Lies, withdrawing, blaming the other person for why they cheated, is ALL emotional abuse!! Link to post Share on other sites
Flabbergaster Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 What sort of character does it take to pull that oiff? Would it not just kill you inside to know the deception you are carrying out on another? Would that not be enough to either end the marriage or end the affair?Is there something psychologically wrong with someone who can deceive longterm? xMM answer Here are some possible examples of type of character (not justifications, trying to answer the OP): Someone who thinks what they're doing isn't such a terrible thing. Having a flexible moral code helps; you can think "this isn't like I'm killing anyone or robbing a bank." Someone who can be selfish, who isn't focusing on the pain they are causing their M. Someone who isn't thinking of consequences of being discovered. Someone who thinks they are unhappy in their M and deserve happiness. Someone who selfishly thinks "I love / could love / enjoy AP; it's unfair that society says I can't have AP as well" Once it gets started...deception is a necessary step to keep the A going. Some people feel guilt about the deception, some don't. The A is justification for the 'necessary evil' of deception. Because the A gives them something they think they deserve / want / need, the deception isn't so bad. Silly metaphor...I've been battling to keep perfect on my diet for years. if you leave a piece of bacon in a room with me...if I eat it I feel bad, but I forgive myself very quickly. I know diabetics that will pick up a piece of chocolate and eat it without blinking, as they walk through the room. None of this is healthy behavior...and we quickly forgive ourselves / make excuses why it isn't so bad. I couldn't do it anymore after 4 months, but not just for the reasons you listed. I just couldn't handle trying to fit two men into my heart. It made me miserable. Change it to "two women" and I'm there with you. it gets much worth after 4 months, be glad you pulled the plug! Link to post Share on other sites
wheelwright Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 I don't understand how anyone can cheat, period. I mean when I was married even if Tricia Helfer was lying naked in bed saying come get it big boy, I would have said no sorry I am married put that red Cylon dress back on. Seriously it's a totally alien concept to me. I don't get how anyone could actually go through with taking their clothes off and having sex with someone else. It blows my mind that some people can do that. Maybe I'm just an unempathic weirdo Imagine. Love. Lust. Intimacy. Unmet needs. Ipso facto. Link to post Share on other sites
woinlove Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 Imagine. Love. Lust. Intimacy. Unmet needs. Ipso facto. Unlike PNP I can imagine why people cheat, but love, lust, intimacy and needs are only one half of the equation. The other half is wanting to keep the status quo in one's marriage, at least for the time being. I've never cheated. But that doesn't mean I haven't had a complicated love life at times. It just means I have always been open and honest about it with my boyfriends (from my teens and early adulthood) and with my H. To focus only on the love and lust part ignores the equally important part of the equation -- that one didn't want to tell one's spouse, presumably because one didn't want to deal with the reaction which might include loss of marriage or something else. Link to post Share on other sites
sweetpeach35 Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 I don't understand how anyone can cheat, period. I mean when I was married even if Tricia Helfer was lying naked in bed saying come get it big boy, I would have said no sorry I am married put that red Cylon dress back on. Seriously it's a totally alien concept to me. I don't get how anyone could actually go through with taking their clothes off and having sex with someone else. It blows my mind that some people can do that. Maybe I'm just an unempathic weirdo i feel like this ,if im not going to get the loving at home. ill get it someplace else . and yes .some people dont leave ,there wife or husband because they have to much at steak, and they feel better cheating . and if they get cought they will deal with it .at that time Link to post Share on other sites
WorldIsYours Posted March 20, 2011 Share Posted March 20, 2011 People cheat because they don't care about themselves or those who love them. Link to post Share on other sites
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