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wheelwright

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People sometimes say here that remorse is a key factor in how they feel about a reconciling WS.

 

Two questions:

 

Is this remorse something that means the person wishes they hadn't done what they did?

 

Can people give examples of behaviour they feel truly remorseful for?

 

I find remorse difficult, and would like insight. (Remorse isn't just sorry, it includes regret.)

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I can only draw from my own experiences to demonstrate remorse:

 

For myself: I am truly remorseful that I acted on emotion on DDay. I know that I would have been taken much more seriously had I followed the sage advice given here and on affair-busting sites. I also feel remorse for placing blame on the OW's brothers' wife for not telling me-she had her loyalties, and I misunderstood them

 

For my H: I can't speak for him, but I have seen true remorse in his actions since his affair. He has been the best he can be and continues to support me, and hasn't lost himself in all of this.

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I can only draw from my own experiences to demonstrate remorse:

 

For myself: I am truly remorseful that I acted on emotion on DDay. I know that I would have been taken much more seriously had I followed the sage advice given here and on affair-busting sites. I also feel remorse for placing blame on the OW's brothers' wife for not telling me-she had her loyalties, and I misunderstood them

 

For my H: I can't speak for him, but I have seen true remorse in his actions since his affair. He has been the best he can be and continues to support me, and hasn't lost himself in all of this.

 

I am grateful you replied in the spirit of the thread.

 

Remorse for acting on emotions is a strange thing. Do you feel remorseful for the emotions?

 

I think I am exploring this idea, and it may be that it's easier to feel remorse for acting in a certain way, but that our feelings are another boat.

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jennie-jennie

Isn't there a difference between regret and remorse?

 

I regret that I was the WS because the OM was a man I should not have bothered with.

 

I don't feel remorse though.

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I think remorse is a profound innner sense and understanding of the pain you caused another by your actions.

 

To me, it differs from shame or guilt in that it is empathetic to another.

 

 

Shame and guilt are experiencing your actions as it hurt YOU; Your reputation, your standing at work, the community, your relationship with friends, family, even children. Similiar to "what was I thinking? Why did I do this to me?" We could even throw regret in this mix.

 

Remorse is feeling your actions and the pain they caused as experienced by another.....the one you hurt.

 

It is feeling their pain, or shame, ---CAUSED BY YOU--- on a profound, emotional level. For many, it is the "aha" moment. It is "Why did I do this to her/him?"

 

Many say you can never understand that pain until it happens to you in a relationship where you deeply love the other and they betray you.

 

Great question: I know shame and guilt when I see it.

 

I know true remorse when I feel it.

 

There's a difference.

Edited by Spark1111
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jennie-jennie
I think remorse is a profound innner sense and understanding of the pain you caused another by your actions.

 

To me, it differs from shame or guilt in that it is empathetic to another.

 

 

Shame and guilt are experiencing your actions as it hurt YOU; Your reputation, your standing at work, the community, your relationship with friends, family, even children. Similiar to "what was I thinking? Why did I do this to me?" We could even throw regret in this mix.

 

Remorse is feeling your actions and the pain they caused as experienced by another.....the one you hurt.

 

It is feeling their pain, or shame, ---CAUSED BY YOU--- on a profound, emotional level. For many, it is the "aha" moment. It is "Why did I do this to her/him?"

 

Many say you can never understand that pain until it happens to you in a relationship where you deeply love the other and they betray you.

 

Great question: I know shame and guilt when I see it.

 

I know true remorse when I feel it.

 

There's a difference.

 

When I was the WS, my SO had to work to get me back. There was a reason I looked outside the marriage, if he wanted me back he needed to prove he was prepared to give me more.

 

Regret I do, remorse I don't. I can be sorry someone is hurt by my actions, but I will not regret taking them because of that.

 

I want to be faithful to you. Then it is stupid to have an affair. I would regret that.

 

Remorse to me is not regretting the action, it is regretting that the action hurt someone.

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Quite honestly I think that cheaters in general are incapable of thinking about how their actions hurt somebody else. They simply think of their own gratification and that is it. They don't have any empathy for the person they are hurting.

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I wish ... the night it first happened... after my life, excuse me, Freudian slip, my wife left to go to work, that I hadn't drank so much tequila. And when she was the last one left after everyone had gone she had left her swim suit on and not climbed on my lap. Yuck, is all I cant think now.

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I wish ... the night it first happened... after my life, excuse me, Freudian slip, my wife left to go to work, that I hadn't drank so much tequila. And when she was the last one left after everyone had gone she had left her swim suit on and not climbed on my lap. Yuck, is all I cant think now.

 

How about wishing you'd said No, or had removed yourself? What SHE did isn't really relevant.

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Regret for me is a finite, historical thing. Wishing one hadn't done X or Y.

 

Remorse, on the other hand, would shape future behaviour. It would mean you are truly sorry and therefore have learnt from your error and will prove so by your actions.

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When I was the WS, my SO had to work to get me back. There was a reason I looked outside the marriage, if he wanted me back he needed to prove he was prepared to give me more.

 

Regret I do, remorse I don't. I can be sorry someone is hurt by my actions, but I will not regret taking them because of that.

I want to be faithful to you. Then it is stupid to have an affair. I would regret that.

 

Remorse to me is not regretting the action, it is regretting that the action hurt someone.

 

I think that the part I've bolded is something important to note.

 

 

If you're not sorry enough that someone is hurt by your actions that you regret taking them...then to me at least, there's a good amount of empathy missing.

 

I'd suggest that "most people" are capable of feeling regret for actions that they've taken that hurt others. That (to me) IS remorse. You make a big distinction between regretting the action and regretting that it hurt someone. Most people see those two as linked...and recognize that their actions CAN hurt others, and are therefore RESPONSIBLE for their actions and how they hurt others.

 

I think this ties into your whole "unapologetic" mindset.

 

Respectfully, this attitude makes me feel like there's a lot more self-focus, and a lot less empathy for others in this kind of viewpoint.

 

Now...some enlightened self-interest is key to everyone's survival. Don't take me wrong. But somewhere there's a key balance between that and our empathy for others that actually contributes to our ability to be a part of a culture, a society as a whole.

 

I can think of any number of actions I've taken that I've felt remorse for...things that I've done that I wish I could have "taken back" in my life because of how the outcome hurt others.

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jennie-jennie
I think that the part I've bolded is something important to note.

 

 

If you're not sorry enough that someone is hurt by your actions that you regret taking them...then to me at least, there's a good amount of empathy missing.

 

I'd suggest that "most people" are capable of feeling regret for actions that they've taken that hurt others. That (to me) IS remorse. You make a big distinction between regretting the action and regretting that it hurt someone. Most people see those two as linked...and recognize that their actions CAN hurt others, and are therefore RESPONSIBLE for their actions and how they hurt others.

 

I think this ties into your whole "unapologetic" mindset.

 

Respectfully, this attitude makes me feel like there's a lot more self-focus, and a lot less empathy for others in this kind of viewpoint.

 

Now...some enlightened self-interest is key to everyone's survival. Don't take me wrong. But somewhere there's a key balance between that and our empathy for others that actually contributes to our ability to be a part of a culture, a society as a whole.

 

I can think of any number of actions I've taken that I've felt remorse for...things that I've done that I wish I could have "taken back" in my life because of how the outcome hurt others.

 

You see I think before I act. I do not take actions I think will hurt others.

 

It is actually kind of funny that you accuse me of lacking empathy. If anything, I have had too much empathy, been too attuned to others' feelings, having grown up with a narcissistic mother and then later in life having had a narcissistic SO.

 

I have never understood how people can take actions that will hurt others. I just don't.

 

And now you will of course say that being involved with my MM is taking an action that hurts the BS. To me the BS being hurt is an unfortunate consequence of my MM's actions or rather inaction.

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Jennie, I apologize. I didn't mean to say or imply that you lack empathy. You point out the one area that to me does give the appearance of that...the affair and it's impacts to the BS. And I see your viewpoint of how that's your MM's fault and not your own...I just don't agree with you that because it's HIS action that negates any kind of responsibility/complicity/ownership on your part.

 

I apologize again for any insult given or implied.

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jennie-jennie
Jennie, I apologize. I didn't mean to say or imply that you lack empathy. You point out the one area that to me does give the appearance of that...the affair and it's impacts to the BS. And I see your viewpoint of how that's your MM's fault and not your own...I just don't agree with you that because it's HIS action that negates any kind of responsibility/complicity/ownership on your part.

 

I apologize again for any insult given or implied.

 

I appreciate that, Owl. :)

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People sometimes say here that remorse is a key factor in how they feel about a reconciling WS.

 

Two questions:

 

Is this remorse something that means the person wishes they hadn't done what they did?

 

Can people give examples of behaviour they feel truly remorseful for?

 

I find remorse difficult, and would like insight. (Remorse isn't just sorry, it includes regret.)

 

I agree with Jennie and I think SG said priddy much the same thing ...that there is a difference between regret and remorse.

 

I used to live in a state of both, now it's neither. I don't do things that I will have remorse over or regret. I understand what I'm doing before, during and after.

 

We have to let the past go the best we can, to live in your past is to rob yourself of your future.

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Isn't there a difference between regret and remorse?

 

I regret that I was the WS because the OM was a man I should not have bothered with.

 

I don't feel remorse though.

 

From what I've thought about so far, with reinforcements from the dictionary, remorse contains the idea of regret.

 

So remorse is more than truly sorry.

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I think remorse is a profound innner sense and understanding of the pain you caused another by your actions.

 

To me, it differs from shame or guilt in that it is empathetic to another.

 

 

Shame and guilt are experiencing your actions as it hurt YOU; Your reputation, your standing at work, the community, your relationship with friends, family, even children. Similiar to "what was I thinking? Why did I do this to me?" We could even throw regret in this mix.

 

Yes Spark, I think this defines the line between regret and remorse well.

 

Remorse is feeling your actions and the pain they caused as experienced by another.....the one you hurt.

 

I am empathetic (when not being pathetic :laugh:). I have done this part. And while I seek explanations and reasons for my behaviour, I do own my responsibility here.

 

It is feeling their pain, or shame, ---CAUSED BY YOU--- on a profound, emotional level. For many, it is the "aha" moment. It is "Why did I do this to her/him?"

 

Many say you can never understand that pain until it happens to you in a relationship where you deeply love the other and they betray you.

 

Great question: I know shame and guilt when I see it.

 

I know true remorse when I feel it.

 

There's a difference.

 

This response makes a lot of sense to me, and perhaps I could leave it there as far as my peace of mind goes.

 

For me, shame and guilt seem fleeting, and depend on what others might be thinking (when I'm feeling fragile enough for that to be important).

 

I feel sorry about my H's pain all the time. I feel sorry I caused it even when I am thinking of reasons for my behaviour, and when thinking about our poor M when A started.

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Quite honestly I think that cheaters in general are incapable of thinking about how their actions hurt somebody else. They simply think of their own gratification and that is it. They don't have any empathy for the person they are hurting.

 

Sometimes I feel empathy for people in far away torture chambers who are being held under the guidance of western governments. Sometimes I pay a few pounds in the hope that it may relieve their torment.

 

But this empathy does not mean I think about them all the time.

 

The fact that all my actions are not about saving these people sometimes gives me pause.

 

Sometimes I think about how far my involvement in my society contributes to their torture.

 

That is not to say infidelity is a good thing, it is just to say that our levels of empathy are not to be entirely measured by our actions/lack of actions.

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This is not pain that you are causing. Cheating on somebody is pain you directly caused and the fact that you don't have any remorse over that says a lot.

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I think that the part I've bolded is something important to note.

 

 

If you're not sorry enough that someone is hurt by your actions that you regret taking them...then to me at least, there's a good amount of empathy missing.

 

I'd suggest that "most people" are capable of feeling regret for actions that they've taken that hurt others. That (to me) IS remorse. You make a big distinction between regretting the action and regretting that it hurt someone. Most people see those two as linked...and recognize that their actions CAN hurt others, and are therefore RESPONSIBLE for their actions and how they hurt others.

 

I think this ties into your whole "unapologetic" mindset.

 

Respectfully, this attitude makes me feel like there's a lot more self-focus, and a lot less empathy for others in this kind of viewpoint.

 

Now...some enlightened self-interest is key to everyone's survival. Don't take me wrong. But somewhere there's a key balance between that and our empathy for others that actually contributes to our ability to be a part of a culture, a society as a whole.

 

I can think of any number of actions I've taken that I've felt remorse for...things that I've done that I wish I could have "taken back" in my life because of how the outcome hurt others.

 

I see and find your points persuasive. I do see the link you mention, and that is why my lack of regret is a problem to me.

 

Some people on this thread have talked of remorse more as about empathy amd compassion, which I do have.

 

I can only hope that this is a possible way to feel true remorse - without the regret that normally goes with it.

 

For a while after DDay, I only felt sorry when I saw my H's pain. Because then I was able to put myself aside.

 

I think you are onto something when you say it is about putting yourself aside.

 

I also see that while my sadness at H's pain is a constant, I have not put myself aside enough to say I regret my actions.

 

I kind of regret, but with caveats - some of them philosophical rather than selfish.

 

I would not do it again.

 

But then I believed in love in a different way then - in a way that the A made sense to me.

 

I did not see my cowardice then.

 

The me now can put that aside, but I am not ready to give up a respect for someone who was willing to risk what I did for love. I did risk the hurt of others, and I am very sorry I was wrong. I knew I was risking my own hurt too. It was very much how I felt. I am not sure I can regret that part of it.

 

If anything can be made of my M now, it's about the future, and if we can get over the past.

 

Not about making the past untrue by way of regret.

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I agree with Jennie and I think SG said priddy much the same thing ...that there is a difference between regret and remorse.

 

I used to live in a state of both, now it's neither. I don't do things that I will have remorse over or regret. I understand what I'm doing before, during and after.

 

We have to let the past go the best we can, to live in your past is to rob yourself of your future.

 

Like bolded.

 

That's good for you, and a healthy place to live for sure.

 

I am trying to resolve my past while keeping my future in mind. That's the way it is right now.

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