Gaslighting

[BeagleGal]

I've seen the term "gaslighting" used on LS several times (especially in the infidelity/other woman/man forums) and I'm not sure as to what it means exactly, and to be honest, it is the first time I've heard the term being used

 

Is "gaslighting" the same as pathological/chronic lying?

Are "gaslighters" narcissists or do they have narcissistics tendencies?

 

Just looking to be educated here!

 

Thanks!

 

BG

[Pyro]

google is your friend:)

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting

[BeagleGal]

Right you are! Thanks!

 

Oh boy, this gaslighting doesnt sound very nice at all...

 

 

google is your friend:)

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaslighting

[bentnotbroken]

It's not. It is emotionally, spiritually and physically devastating.

[YellowShark]

Here's "Gaslighting" in action.

 

My EX and MM (with pregnant wife!) are having an affair. I bailed once I found out. Too sick for me to even contemplate trying to repair the damage this has caused.

 

Their "cover story" within our social circle is that I am a "jealous controlling maniac," - which is something I have never been. And I made everything up.

 

That is Gaslighting.

[BeagleGal]

I've followed your story when you first came out with it. I'm sorry to hear all you've had to deal with.

 

Now, with my case. My ex, cheated/lied. etc, etc, and I found out from someone at work (we work for same company) that he had been cheating, got the girl pregnant (all while living with me) and they just married last Sat. When I confronted him with what I was told, he told me it was "sooo much bull****", that "nothing happened while with me" and basically didn't admit to or confirm what I had heard. Instead try to lie about it and deny it as much as he could. And for what? Who the hell knows. Probably to keep me around "just in case".

 

Now is that gaslighting - because he did try to make it seem like it was just rumours going around and I shouldn't believe what I had heard - or is this just typical a**hole, lying behavior?

 

 

Here's "Gaslighting" in action.

 

My EX and MM (with pregnant wife!) are having an affair. I bailed once I found out. Too sick for me to even contemplate trying to repair the damage this has caused.

 

Their "cover story" within our social circle is that I am a "jealous controlling maniac," - which is something I have never been. And I made everything up.

 

That is Gaslighting.

[carhill]

And you're 'crazy' too. Sociopaths ftw

Their "cover story" within our social circle is that I am a "jealous controlling maniac,"

 

OP, when you get a whiff of this, black hole the relevant party, immediately. No discussion, no second chances. People like this are practiced and proficient at sociopathic behavior and methodology.

[BeagleGal]

Yeah I read that they try to make you think you're crazy or whatever. Scary, really.

 

When I read what the term meant, freaked me out. Not sure if my ex gaslighted me. Maybe. He wasn't trying to convince me I was going crazy but that "rumours" I had heard about him and what he had done, was bull****, shouldn't believe it, blah, blah, blah... but I almost felt I was going crazy. I think because I was just so f'n overwhelmed and shocked by all that I had been told. Hmmm...

 

And you're 'crazy' too. Sociopaths ftw

 

OP, when you get a whiff of this, black hole the relevant party, immediately. No discussion, no second chances. People like this are practiced and proficient at sociopathic behavior and methodology.

[carhill]

Watch any child *attempt* to gaslight their parents before getting their backside warmed up to bring them back to reality. Yep, that's about it. Sometimes, socialization fails

[YellowShark]

And you're 'crazy' too. Sociopaths ftw

 

OP, when you get a whiff of this, black hole the relevant party, immediately. No discussion, no second chances. People like this are practiced and proficient at sociopathic behavior and methodology.

 

The caricature they are presenting of me to the social circle is so ridiculous that I realized they are both willing to do ANYTHING and screw over ANYONE just so they can get their rocks off with each other.

 

I don't have time for their sick twisted game, nor people who engage in character assassination to hide an indefensible betrayal.

 

So I agree, I "black holed" them.

[michelangelo]

Gaslighters are so good at what they do that, in the case of my lying wife, I had to check to see if there was actually an atmosphere filled with oxygen in her vicinity because I doubted anything that could come out of her lungs.

 

She could lie convincingly, act like I was a complete a$$ for even thinking she could cheat--that there was something wrong with me for ever doubting her.

 

And do all that while she still had the remains of her last tryst oozing out of her.

 

Disgusting.

[YellowShark]

And do all that while she still had the remains of her last tryst oozing out of her.

 

Sorry to find humor in your pain michelangelo but OMFG that is such a funny description I just literally blew my Coke out my nose laughing so hard!

[carhill]

Yeah, I always did wonder what that smell was. Cruel life lesson.

[Ellin]

I didn't know what it meant either. I assumed it was just "ordinary" lying to cover one's tracks. But that's much worse.

[michelangelo]

Sorry to find humor in your pain michelangelo but OMFG that is such a funny description I just literally blew my Coke out my nose laughing so hard!

 

No offense taken.

[freestyle]

The movie can be watched on Youtube, it's broken into ten different segments.

 

That's the most evil form of gaslighting, IMO. The H begins a calculated campaign of deliberately toying with his W's head, so he can have her committed.

 

In cheating scenarios, I don't think the WS is always out to completely destroy the BS mentally----I believe they gaslight more as a defense mechanism, a diversion tactic to deflect attention away from their own bad behavior----and they don't realize how much they can damage the BS by doing that,they're merely focused on cake-eating.......It's not that they're determined to see the BS end up in a rubber room.

 

In either scenario it's one of the lowest forms of manipulation.

Emotional sleight-of-hand.

 

"Don't question ME, question YOURSELF........"

 

And it's incredibly painful when it's discovered by the betrayed party.

 

When it happened to me, I felt like my own baggage had been used against me. I let my SO know that I'd been through a lot of pain in the past, being cheated on.

 

When he became enmeshed in an EA, and I finally asked him what was going on---he actually used my previous experience to try to convince me that I was just imagining things, that I was paranoid, overreacting,making a mountain out of a molehill, etc. That I was punishing him for what my last bf did.....

 

And for awhile I started to second-guess myself. For awhile.

Until the red flags became too numerous to count. His female "friend' calling his landline at 3 a.m. was a giant red banner.Then I KNEW. That it wasn't my imagination.......and that his words to me were nothing more than a diversionary tactic. I had never heard the term,"gaslighting" at that time.

When I came across it in one of these forums a few years later, and read some articles online.......well, the light bulb came on.

[wheelwright]

The movie can be watched on Youtube, it's broken into ten different segments.

 

That's the most evil form of gaslighting, IMO. The H begins a calculated campaign of deliberately toying with his W's head, so he can have her committed.

 

In cheating scenarios, I don't think the WS is always out to completely destroy the BS mentally----I believe they gaslight more as a defense mechanism, a diversion tactic to deflect attention away from their own bad behavior----and they don't realize how much they can damage the BS by doing that,they're merely focused on cake-eating.......It's not that they're determined to see the BS end up in a rubber room.

 

In either scenario it's one of the lowest forms of manipulation.

Emotional sleight-of-hand.

 

"Don't question ME, question YOURSELF........"

 

And it's incredibly painful when it's discovered by the betrayed party.

 

When it happened to me, I felt like my own baggage had been used against me. I let my SO know that I'd been through a lot of pain in the past, being cheated on.

 

When he became enmeshed in an EA, and I finally asked him what was going on---he actually used my previous experience to try to convince me that I was just imagining things, that I was paranoid, overreacting,making a mountain out of a molehill, etc. That I was punishing him for what my last bf did.....

 

And for awhile I started to second-guess myself. For awhile.

Until the red flags became too numerous to count. His female "friend' calling his landline at 3 a.m. was a giant red banner.Then I KNEW. That it wasn't my imagination.......and that his words to me were nothing more than a diversionary tactic. I had never heard the term,"gaslighting" at that time.

When I came across it in one of these forums a few years later, and read some articles online.......well, the light bulb came on.

 

I saw this film when I was about 11. It still haunts me as one of the worst horror stories ever told. Psycho is less disturbing, because we eventually understand the kind of evil we are dealing with. In Fanny by Gaslight it's just left hanging as evil...

 

Someone prepared to deflect their deceptive behaviour onto the paranoia of the deceived is a tricky one. Even if not masterminded as in the film.

 

Exactly what kind of character flaw are we dealing with in the gaslighter?

 

Or do they have a basement in a hotel up the hill? Via which we can understand the root of it.

 

Or are such gaslighters always sociopaths? And also I wondered if sociopaths behave like this to everyone, or if they have a sacred few they remain honest with?

[carhill]

I wondered if sociopaths behave like this to everyone, or if they have a sacred few they remain honest with?

 

IME, even when it *seems* honest and sincere, it's an illusion, almost like an alternative reality which can be warped at will. The outer limits of sanity

[freestyle]

Exactly what kind of character flaw are we dealing with in the gaslighter?

 

 

 

Or are such gaslighters always sociopaths? And also I wondered if sociopaths behave like this to everyone, or if they have a sacred few they remain honest with?

 

*********************************************************

 

Based on what I've read, NPD's can be just as likely to gaslight someone as a full blown sociopath.

 

People with Narcissistic Personality Disorder thrive on being in the "one-up" position.

 

"Ha-ha, I was able to fool you......."

 

subtext: (that means I'm smarter and therefore superior to you)(foolish mortal,hmmpf!!!)

 

I would view that as a character flaw.............

 

The husband/villain in the movie seemed to be predominantly motivated by greed, more than a need to tear down someone mentally and emotionally.He showed no sign of having anything resembling a conscience, which fits the description of sociopathy.

 

To answer your second question, anyone who fits the bill as a full blown sociopath does not have a sacred few----they have no conscience, are incapable of remorse and therefore have no true concern for the well-being of anyone but themselves. People are little more than props to be used to further their agendas, whatever they may be.

[michelangelo]

My wife gets highly insulted when I tell her she is a chronic liar and a deceiver.

 

She considers herself to be be an honest and truthful person--except for her trashing of our marriage by cheating for so many years and lying to cover it up.

 

She actually thinks that cheating for 8 years and deceiving me for a total of 16 years constitutes an exception rather than a rule.

[wheelwright]

Exactly what kind of character flaw are we dealing with in the gaslighter?

 

 

 

Or are such gaslighters always sociopaths? And also I wondered if sociopaths behave like this to everyone, or if they have a sacred few they remain honest with?

 

*********************************************************

 

Based on what I've read, NPD's can be just as likely to gaslight someone as a full blown sociopath.

 

People with Narcissistic Personality Disorder thrive on being in the "one-up" position.

 

"Ha-ha, I was able to fool you......."

 

subtext: (that means I'm smarter and therefore superior to you)(foolish mortal,hmmpf!!!)

 

I would view that as a character flaw.............

 

The husband/villain in the movie seemed to be predominantly motivated by greed, more than a need to tear down someone mentally and emotionally.He showed no sign of having anything resembling a conscience, which fits the description of sociopathy.

 

To answer your second question, anyone who fits the bill as a full blown sociopath does not have a sacred few----they have no conscience, are incapable of remorse and therefore have no true concern for the well-being of anyone but themselves. People are little more than props to be used to further their agendas, whatever they may be.

 

OK - was hoping for something better. Are ther people on the borderline? Or does that sound desperate?

[wheelwright]

*********************************************************

 

The husband/villain in the movie seemed to be predominantly motivated by greed, more than a need to tear down someone mentally and emotionally.He showed no sign of having anything resembling a conscience, which fits the description of sociopathy.

 

 

I'm sure this is right for a version, but my version was he enjoyed it. Or at least felt no compassion as it was going on. Which is the main deal.

 

He saw her psychological torture, and felt no compassion.

 

I'll have to go back to the film. Because on the whole, people subjected to lack of compassion are also questioned for their sanity - why put up with it?

 

So why was she gaslighted?

[deux ex machina]

Gaslighting featured pretty heavily in my relationship with my ex, who has NPD. It really did shake me to my core. I honestly believe the manipulation and gaslighting was the worst.

 

I was being told it was me. That because of my past, I was being too sensitive, and seeing things that just weren't happening, silly! I was made to feel like I was wrong on a very basic level. It makes me so angry that my past was thrown in my face in a manipulative way.

 

The effects of it linger, still. To this day, there's a trace of doubting my perceptions, a little too much. Of wanting to hide from those feelings of confusion that rear their ugly heads.

 

The net effect of it is, I left that relationship with a tendency to look evasive or aloof to others. Even when I'm not. This can make others uncertain, and lots of crossed wires can ensue. What I'm actually doing is trying to sort out whether or not my perceptions have any basis, for one thing.

 

I understand that people don't know that. They're not psychic. So, I tend to do what I call a "perspective check"! If I feel I even can, with that person. A lot of the time, I just have to rely on my optimism and reality testing over time. It's wonderful what I learned in therapy addressing it, as well.

 

Best of all, I'm getting better and better at it, and losing any fears I have as I practice doing this. I am starting to trust my perceptions again, little by little. Which is good, because I have always relied on my perceptions a great deal before, to my benefit. It's a great skill to have.

 

I'm growing to become a more direct person, I think. I don't let things fester, and if I am unsure of anything I ask. Which is better than the way I was before the r. and therapy. Who says nothing good came out of it? Heh. Actually, lots did. But what a painful road to get there.

 

Just sharing a little of my experience.

[freestyle]

I'm sure this is right for a version, but my version was he enjoyed it. Or at least felt no compassion as it was going on. Which is the main deal.

 

He saw her psychological torture, and felt no compassion.

 

I'll have to go back to the film. Because on the whole, people subjected to lack of compassion are also questioned for their sanity - why put up with it?

 

So why was she gaslighted?

 

 

Wow those last few quotes became completely inverted as to who wrote what.........oh well,no biggie.

 

 

Perhaps I wasn't thorough enough in my response.( I was on my way out, and wrote in a hurry)

 

I agree with you that the husband/villain in the movie did enjoy the torment he inflicted on the wife---but I still believe that his first objective was greed-motivated. He was after the jewels, and showed no qualms about destroying his wife mentally to get to them. If he also got a sense of twisted satisfaction from his Machiavellian maneuvers, that was just frosting on the cake.( a bonus to a disordered mind)

 

And you're right---- he showed zero compassion---something a sociopath is incapable of.

 

 

To answer your question, "why was she gaslighted?"

 

IMO, Firstly, to get her out of the way so he could get the jewels,

Secondly, to get his twisted,sadistic kicks.

 

 

 

That's just my take on the movie. Similar scenarios probably do happen IRL, with the same motivations, but I hate to think that that's the norm.

 

I'm inclined to believe that the majority of gaslighting that happens is from cake-eating cheaters covering their tracks.............

 

They don't want to set their primary partner free, even though they're attracted to someone else, so they keep the BS strung along by gaslighting them. Perhaps they're thinking it's nice to have a fall-back position , just in case it doesn't work with the AP.It's an ugly, cruel, insensitive thing to do , but I don't believe the intentions of the cheaters in these cases is to destroy the BS---they gaslight so they can have the best of both worlds (cake-eating, basically)

 

I believe that variety of cheater is far too self-absorbed to even think of how their lies might impact the BS.The BS's feelings are hardly a blip on their radar, as long as the status quo is maintained.

 

 

The other side of the coin is the truly malevolent gaslighting--done by sociopaths, people w/NPD,( etc., insert personality disorder here) It's done by those who are so messed up that they feel a need to tear someone else down, so they can feel superior.

(like a kid pulling the wings off a butterfly, just because he can.....)

 

It gives them a sense of control and power, if they can toy with someone and reduce them to emotional sushi. It's a form of covert aggression.It's sadistic..........*shudder*

[YellowShark]

I believe that variety of cheater is far too self-absorbed to even think of how their lies might impact the BS. The BS's feelings are hardly a blip on their radar, as long as the status quo is maintained.

 

I have given this much thought as it pertains to my personal situation.

 

I believe my EX did what she did on our deck that night with MM - (who's wife is pregnant) - because she felt entitled to do what she did... (even with me and my son at home.) That for me telegraphed that she has some sort of psychological disconnect with acceptable behaviour.

 

And I believe MM - (who's wife is pregnant) - has the same psychological disconnect with acceptable behaviour to betray his pregnant wife AND me. So he engaged in an affair with my EX.

 

This leads me to conclude that both these parties are too toxic, and their minds are not repairable. Therefore I needed to walk, and black-hole both of them permanently.