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"Getting Serious about Pornography" - article


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Came across this and thought perhaps people from this thread might find it an interesting subject to discuss...

 

http://article.nationalreview.com/429884/getting-serious-about-pornography/anonymous

 

Hmm, not sure what I think about that. It's easy to blame porn, but perhaps the man in question just fell out of love. It happens...

 

EDIT - how did they determine that men view women as objects after viewing porn? Did they compare this "post-porn state" to men who had just viewed a REAL naked woman?

 

This article reads like the studies found exactly the results they wanted to find, nothing else.

Edited by Phateless
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It has been discussed many times, but it is the kind of subject that never quite exhausts itself.

 

One thing to keep in mind, though. The National Review--the source of this article--is a far right-wing magazine. It was founded by the late conservative icon William F. Buckley, and has for decades been the flagship magazine of US conservatism. Keep in mind you are getting a pretty slanted opinion.

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It has been discussed many times, but it is the kind of subject that never quite exhausts itself.

 

One thing to keep in mind, though. The National Review--the source of this article--is a far right-wing magazine. It was founded by the late conservative icon William F. Buckley, and has for decades been the flagship magazine of US conservatism. Keep in mind you are getting a pretty slanted opinion.

 

That was obvious from the text of the article itself. :D

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This just proves my point that when you boil it down radical feminists are just pro-choice rightwingers. They are uptight people who want to control what other adults do.

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This just proves my point that when you boil it down radical feminists are just pro-choice rightwingers. They are uptight people who want to control what other adults do.

 

I disagree. First of all, not all feminists are in the anti-porn camp. Those who are agree with the far right on this one point only. They have virtually nothing else in common. Also, even with regards to pronography, right-wingers and anti-porn feminists have very different reasons for objecting to it. For example, the late Andrea Dworkin criticized porn as a genre that celebrates the subjugation of women. Well, the far right is all for the subjugation of women. The religious right justifies female subjugation on biblical grounds; the non-religious right tends to do so by appealing to pseudo-scientific arguments about supposed "natural" male-female differences.

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I disagree. First of all, not all feminists are in the anti-porn camp. Those who are agree with the far right on this one point only. They have virtually nothing else in common. Also, even with regards to pronography, right-wingers and anti-porn feminists have very different reasons for objecting to it. For example, the late Andrea Dworkin criticized porn as a genre that celebrates the subjugation of women. Well, the far right is all for the subjugation of women. The religious right justifies female subjugation on biblical grounds; the non-religious right tends to do so by appealing to pseudo-scientific arguments about supposed "natural" male-female differences.

 

It is still two sides to the same coin. It is still people who can't mind their own damn business.

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wheelwright

Hmmm.

 

I always felt porn was Ok done in a restrictive way.

 

Although I also felt it demeaned women and jaded appetites.

 

The problem is, for porn addicts, that jaded-ness contributes to an insidious mental invasion in their sex life. (I don't feel this would count if the people concerned were all ok with it, but many people, women in particular, feel that the way it is done supports the selling of a women's body for financial gain, and where is the heart/love/goodness in that?)

 

I didn't do it myself, because I didn't want to become jaded. I feel very sad for the men in the article.

 

But porn can be fun, ridiculous, horny, sad, lonely, curious...

 

So many ways to enjoy yourself. So many ways to ruin your potential enjoyment by not waiting for the real thing.

 

If you can't get it though, enjoy what's on offer... I don't condemn anyone here, except people who take advantage of very young women in the industry, and those who watch it when the women are v. young. Which I imagine is a good proportion of those involved.

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LucreziaBorgia

I dunno, I see it the same way that people see gun control issues. The most dangerous part of a gun is the nut behind the trigger - and so with porn. Porn is only as damaging as the person who is using it chooses for it to be. (Excluding of course when either fall into the hands of children who don't have the emotional or mental capacity to handle either one and can hurt themselves badly with either).

 

Now, that said - I don't think that the author's husband having an affair has anything to do with porn/masturbation. I think it has everything to do with him simply falling out of love with her and in love with someone else, and finding that he gained more by leaving than he did by staying. Don't blame porn: lay the blame where it belongs: square on the shoulders of the man who chose to have an affair.

 

I couldn't fail to notice the comparison of the OW to a porn image and the reduction of the OW to nothing more than an extension of his porn/masturbation.

 

Of course, this is the National Review we are talking about. They are quite conservative.

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BlueeyedJonesy

I think this is the thread that finally pulled the cord on my LS days.. So many assumtions...people can be so blind....are we here to point fingers? how do politics get brought into porn? how are gun control and porn even comparable? last time I checked..guns have never come close to ruining my marriage!

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BlueeyedJonesy

and YES it was porn that got my husband stuck in a horrible wreckless downward spiral that controled him...he accidently saw porn at the age of EIGHT while helping his mom clean someones house. EIGHT!! thats when he started everything...its horrible to hear people who have no idea go on..and assume that its because my husband "fell out of love" or this one "she's probably just cold in the sack"......all of it is BS that I actually blamed myself for in the begining....and to actually hear it come out of someone elses mouth..wow...I know this sounds mean but maybe those of you who are experts on porn & sex addiction will one day get a lesson

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and YES it was porn that got my husband stuck in a horrible wreckless downward spiral that controled him...he accidently saw porn at the age of EIGHT while helping his mom clean someones house. EIGHT!! thats when he started everything...its horrible to hear people who have no idea go on..and assume that its because my husband "fell out of love" or this one "she's probably just cold in the sack"......all of it is BS that I actually blamed myself for in the begining....and to actually hear it come out of someone elses mouth..wow...I know this sounds mean but maybe those of you who are experts on porn & sex addiction will one day get a lesson

 

I'm sorry to hear about your experience. That sucks. What you have to remember is that it's NOT your fault, it's HIS FAULT.

 

Porn is out there, but so is gambling, alcohol, cock-fighting, street-racing, facebook, etc.

 

These are things that many people are addicted to, but the choice is on them. There are also many people who use these things RESPONSIBLY. The problem is HIS RELATIONSHIP TO PORN, not porn itself.

 

Make sense?

 

You deserve better than this guy. Try to move on. :bunny:

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BlueeyedJonesy

Phateless, Thank you! I know its not my fault thats why it angers me that people always make that assumtion ya know? He is doing alot better..he has been in IC for 6 months and just started 12 step yesterday. He is my soul mate, so leaving really isn't something I want to do..so I stood by him..knowing that it would be the hardest thing I've ever done..sorry to get so pissed..I just can't believe the assumtions people make sometimes ya know?

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Phateless, Thank you! I know its not my fault thats why it angers me that people always make that assumtion ya know? He is doing alot better..he has been in IC for 6 months and just started 12 step yesterday. He is my soul mate, so leaving really isn't something I want to do..so I stood by him..knowing that it would be the hardest thing I've ever done..sorry to get so pissed..I just can't believe the assumtions people make sometimes ya know?

 

You're welcome! :)

 

I totally hear you, the overall climate hear is the main reason I don't post my own issues; you just get a host of over-reactive nonsense from people who can't wait to lash out and judge you. Makes me sick.

 

I'm very proud of you for sticking with him, I can't imagine how painful it must be. I hope he realizes how lucky he is to have you.

 

What's really important is for him to change the core beliefs that make him susceptible to ADDICTION. Porn itself is just one avenue for addiction, and I wish him all the strength and support he needs not to find another. :bunny::bunny:

 

In fact, here's a great link! - http://www.oprah.com/article/omagazine/200901_omag_willpower

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I think most porn is made BY MEN FOR MEN. Much of it bores me, and if there is any man alive who believes that's how women will respond to your sexual overtures with a male biology....they are in for serious problems in their relationships in trying to satisfy a woman.

 

That being said, if I find something erotic I share it with my SO. If I am bored by the close up crotch shots ad nauseum, I tell him that too.

 

However, so much research exists that it is easy to develop a porn addiction and that it is highly detrimental to one's personal relationships; you grow desensitized to a living, breathing SO and the effort it takes to emotionally connect to a woman and to make love, as opposed to self-masturbatory behaviors. It also encourages the fantasy of having a SO with full hair, hollywood make-up and a perfect body wearing garters servicing your needs after taking care of the kids, the house, the job.

 

Get real. That concept alone is detrimental to maintaining a sex drive with the real woman you live with every day.

 

Like Dr. Phil says: The average man, from start to finish, takes about 7 minutes. The average woman takes up to 19 minutes. What are you going to do with those 12 extra minutes?

 

And men complain they never have enough sex. If they spent as much time learning how to truly satisfy a woman as they do looking at porn...they might have fewer complaints.

 

Porn is pure fantasy. But I believe many men have a problem when their wife is not acting like a porn star.

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LucreziaBorgia
how are gun control and porn even comparable? last time I checked..guns have never come close to ruining my marriage!

 

They are similar in that using them both are a choice and both can be dangerous in the wrong (or young impressionable) hands. Yes, your H has a problem but the choice to do something about it was/is his. Every use or misuse of a substance/porn is a choice. As for the continued comparison: porn didn't pull the trigger on your marriage - your H's misuse, addiction to and inability to make the choice to work on his problem did. Blaming the porn is the same as an alcoholic's wife blaming the alcohol. Addiction is a serious thing, I'm not belittling what happened to your husband and to you - and the comparison was made not as a straw man but as a metaphor.

 

I don't know what kind of wife the person in the article was, but if the guy cheated on his wife and left her for someone else - that says to me that he had it in him to cheat, regardless of porn use - I honestly think that blaming porn isn't going to help anyone and distracts from the real problem: why a person needs it to the point of destruction of others.

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I think most porn is made BY MEN FOR MEN. Much of it bores me, and if there is any man alive who believes that's how women will respond to your sexual overtures with a male biology....they are in for serious problems in their relationships in trying to satisfy a woman.

 

That being said, if I find something erotic I share it with my SO. If I am bored by the close up crotch shots ad nauseum, I tell him that too.

 

However, so much research exists that it is easy to develop a porn addiction and that it is highly detrimental to one's personal relationships; you grow desensitized to a living, breathing SO and the effort it takes to emotionally connect to a woman and to make love, as opposed to self-masturbatory behaviors. It also encourages the fantasy of having a SO with full hair, hollywood make-up and a perfect body wearing garters servicing your needs after taking care of the kids, the house, the job.

 

Get real. That concept alone is detrimental to maintaining a sex drive with the real woman you live with every day.

 

Like Dr. Phil says: The average man, from start to finish, takes about 7 minutes. The average woman takes up to 19 minutes. What are you going to do with those 12 extra minutes?

 

And men complain they never have enough sex. If they spent as much time learning how to truly satisfy a woman as they do looking at porn...they might have fewer complaints.

 

Porn is pure fantasy. But I believe many men have a problem when their wife is not acting like a porn star.

 

You do realize that blaming porn removes personal responsibility from the people who use it, don't you?

 

They are similar in that using them both are a choice and both can be dangerous in the wrong (or young impressionable) hands. Yes, your H has a problem but the choice to do something about it was/is his. Every use or misuse of a substance/porn is a choice. As for the continued comparison: porn didn't pull the trigger on your marriage - your H's misuse, addiction to and inability to make the choice to work on his problem did. Blaming the porn is the same as an alcoholic's wife blaming the alcohol. Addiction is a serious thing, I'm not belittling what happened to your husband and to you - and the comparison was made not as a straw man but as a metaphor.

 

I don't know what kind of wife the person in the article was, but if the guy cheated on his wife and left her for someone else - that says to me that he had it in him to cheat, regardless of porn use - I honestly think that blaming porn isn't going to help anyone and distracts from the real problem: why a person needs it to the point of destruction of others.

 

I agree with you 100%.

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They are similar in that using them both are a choice and both can be dangerous in the wrong (or young impressionable) hands. Yes, your H has a problem but the choice to do something about it was/is his. Every use or misuse of a substance/porn is a choice. As for the continued comparison: porn didn't pull the trigger on your marriage - your H's misuse, addiction to and inability to make the choice to work on his problem did. Blaming the porn is the same as an alcoholic's wife blaming the alcohol. Addiction is a serious thing, I'm not belittling what happened to your husband and to you - and the comparison was made not as a straw man but as a metaphor.

 

I don't know what kind of wife the person in the article was, but if the guy cheated on his wife and left her for someone else - that says to me that he had it in him to cheat, regardless of porn use - I honestly think that blaming porn isn't going to help anyone and distracts from the real problem: why a person needs it to the point of destruction of others.

 

What do you think romance novels do? How many avg. men in society could ever measure up? And for the Twilight fans, how realistic is Edward? Men have their ideal and women have there own.

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threebyfate

Porn isn't "good" for relationships. But heavy porn usage is a symptom of something lacking inside of the partner who heavily relies on it.

 

As to whether "fault" lies with porn, that this man left his wife, I couldn't disagree more. It's not unusual for men to go through mid-life crisis, looking to bimbettes to compensate for a perceived loss of manhood.

Edited by threebyfate
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What do you think romance novels do? How many avg. men in society could ever measure up? And for the Twilight fans, how realistic is Edward? Men have their ideal and women have there own.

 

Thank you!!! We have a winner. Blame the person, not the substance.

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LucreziaBorgia
What do you think romance novels do? How many avg. men in society could ever measure up? And for the Twilight fans, how realistic is Edward? Men have their ideal and women have there own.

 

I don't follow. I'm not sure what romance novels and Twilight have to do with what I posted. Did you think I was bashing porn?

 

I'm not anti porn by any stretch of the imagination and well understand fantasy/ideals.

 

I also understand that fantasy/ideals can get out of hand when people choose to misuse them.

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I didn't read the article ... But to offer an opinion on pornography - It contributes to crimes: Abuse of women and children incl rape, murder ..

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I didn't read the article ... But to offer an opinion on pornography - It contributes to crimes: Abuse of women and children incl rape, murder ..

 

These crimes have nothing whatsoever to do with porn. I know plenty of men who look at porn and go to strip clubs that are not violent people at all. The men that I fear the most are these church going types because they suppress their urges so much that they snap one day.

 

Another post said that most porn is made for men by men and that is true but there is nothing wrong with that. Is there anything wrong with men having something that is for us?

 

I would not take Dr Phil's advice on anything. If he told me the sky was blue I would go outside to make sure it didn't change colors.

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These crimes have nothing whatsoever to do with porn. I know plenty of men who look at porn and go to strip clubs that are not violent people at all. The men that I fear the most are these church going types because they suppress their urges so much that they snap one day.

 

Another post said that most porn is made for men by men and that is true but there is nothing wrong with that. Is there anything wrong with men having something that is for us?

 

I would not take Dr Phil's advice on anything. If he told me the sky was blue I would go outside to make sure it didn't change colors.

 

-----------------------

 

Sin begets Sin.

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