My wife and her boss

[0plus2is1]

I have a very complex situation that is starting to make my worst fears feel like they are being realized. I have known my wife for 12 years now and we've been married for nearly 1 year. We dated 12 years ago for a very short period of time and have remained friends up until 2 years ago where we became serious. She has a rather crazy past and I'm one of the few people who actually knows of it.

 

For at least 8 years of her 12 years of employment she's been romantically involved w/ her married boss. They have have a very close and very non-professional relationship. She said the romance part of the relationship ended about 3 years ago and she once described herself being fascinated w/ the relationship but realized it was not healthy and she had to put it to an end. During the entire time that she was seeing her boss, she often had boyfriends and actually lived w/ one for 2 years - we will call him Jim. She had actually became pregnant w/ Jim while she was living w/ him and lost the baby through miscarriage. After the misscarriage, she fell into a year long depression and her and Jim ended the relationship. She said after the misscarriage, she became very blamefull and angry towards Jim. A few months after her misscarriage, she called me and confided in me that she didn't know the baby was Jim's or her boss's.

 

She has since had a son w/ another guy who shortly left the picture and has not been involved in any shape or form. She is currently taking legal actions to have him removed from all parental rights and this process should be completed w/in the next couple of months. Her son is now almost 5 and she designated her boss and his wife as his legal godparents which I find quite disturbing since his wife agreed out of kindness and not knowing the relationship that was going on behind her back.

 

My wife and I have talked about this in great length - almost until exhaustion. I give her credit for being as candid about the relationship as she was when we first started talking about it. I did find some discrepancies when she said the romantic part of their relationship ended. One time we spoke - she said it was right after she had her misscarriage, and another time she said the relationship lasted 8 years which would put it right up to the doorstep of when we started dating again.

 

It took a lot for me to decide to take the chance and trust her enough to marry her. She feels that she has given me enough time to discuss the matter and feels it's time to move on and not talk about it anymore. I felt comfortable w/ this until a few about a year ago - actually right before we decided to get married. A few things flagged me that they were still closer than I had thought. The first incident occured when we borrowed one of his company cars to drive up to her parents for Christmas. When we got back, he showed up unexpectedly, wanting to know if he could take the truck back. She exploded on him (I wasn't there) and was mad that he didn't give her any warning about picking up the truck before she could clean it. It struck me very odd that she could talk to her boss like this w/out any form of retribution. That happened on a Friday and when she came back to work on Monday morning, he was nice as could be and took her out to lunch. Later that day, she called me at work w/ absolutely nothing to say (which was highly abnormal) and was trying to make uncomfortable conversation.

 

Another incident that threw a red flag was when she got in a huge argument w/ him on the phone one night when I was over at her house. She refused to go into work for 2 days and I saw emails from him that were almost trying to calm her down and stressed the need to find reconciliation. She definitely had the upper hand in the situation - she's the boss, not him.

 

Now, a few weeks ago came the real show stoppers. Her boss needed to get knee surgery and she took off nearly the entire day to bring him to the hospital and brought her computer to the hospital to work until he was ready to drive home. I asked her why she needed to be the one to take him to the hospital and not his wife and she said that his wife was out of town w/ their daughter.

 

Now the latest development last week. My wife has a friend that has started a job at my wife's company and has come to live w/ us for a few months until she gets on her feet. During the interview w/ her boss, her friend blurted out that the only thing that concerned him if she was hired was the fact that my wife might want to go out to luch w/ her instead of him all the time. My wife, later that night, took me out on a walk to talk about what her friend said and explained it as since she was the oldest employee and had started the company w/ him, that he often went out to lunch w/ only her so they could catch up w/ work and discuss new ideas for the company and also, so he could vent about his other employees to her. She said the other 2 employees were not good at forward and creative thinking like her and her boss and they would only impede progress if they joined in on these meetings.

 

I'm just about to the point where I want to hire a 007 to follow them around during the day. What are the chances of these two not still having a romantic relationship? At times it seems impossible that they aren't. They definitely still have a big emotional relationship and that's not undeniable. I need some form of closure to this before I drive myself crazy thinking about all the possibilities. Talking about the situation anymore than we've done is not an option anymore.

 

Any suggestions on what to do next?

[LakesideDream]

0plus, You are doing what you need to do first, analyse the situation.

 

You will find from poster who follow that there are many "red flags" in your story, however you have already identified them for yourself.

 

It's clear from your missive that your Wife and her Boss still have a strong personal relationship. Is it still an emotional or sexual relationship? You are going to have to do some work to find that out. The private investigator thought isn't actually a bad one. It lets you be detached from the process. It can be expensive though.

 

I wish you good luck. Yours is not a comfortable road to walk.

[mark982]

like you said, hire 007.this "relationship" sounds awful funny to me.why are you being so bashful about questioning her?a loving wife would not be doing this. check things out carefully

[0plus2is1]

I'm ready to get out and I've already been spying like crazy but haven't really turned up anything tangable. I have put keyloggers on one of her work laptops and gained access to nearly every login that she used on that computer. I have also put recorders in her car when she goes to work but I think they take his car when they go to lunch. I also got a couple of her boss's logins but haven't really found anything out except that their little lunches together are very important.

 

I'm also going to buy a GPS tracker soon and try to find out where they go during the day. I feel like the only way I can get the closure I need is to catch them in the act. She's so good at hiding things and denying things even when she gets caught. If I don't catch it will hard to get the exit I'm hoping for.

 

The one good thing is she seems to be in denial about how obvious her relationship is w/ this guy so I think catching them won't be the hardest thing to do. The biggest problem is that while all this is going on, I'm at work and a PI is very expensive.

I can only imagine what her other employees are thinking when they go off to lunch together all the time and they are never invited.

 

The other crazy thing is that her kid totally loves me to death and I just don't understand why she would risk her son's emotional well being like this.

[whichwayisup]

Then ask a trusted male friend of yours to follow her if you can't afford a PI right now.

[0plus2is1]

thanks for the feedback. Unfortunately, everyone I know works normal house and in different towns. I really don't want to try to work this out by asking her to leave her job - I want out and I want to blow this thing out of the water. Besides, the situation at her job is very complex also.

 

She doesn't have a college degree and this guy basically groomed her for the position and they built this small company together.

 

The company stands to make a huge amount of money and she's been promised some very large checks (6 figures) if things work out like they are supposed to. If she left that job, she would never find anything close to comparable. On the other side of that, he has been promising her these bonus checks for quite a few years. It's a very symbiotic relationship. She gets a great job, the chance of making tons of $$, and massive job security because of their secret. She has even mentioned the power she wields over him if her job security. She says that she stands his bitching and complaining when they go to lunch as part of her job security.

 

I really do think I could find out quite a lot w/ a GPS tracker. I doubt nothing takes place at the office because of her other co-workers are there and because it is a very small office as well. I think they have to be going somewhere else if they are seeing each other.

 

The crazy thing is I could blow everything so far apart from the list of business and personal emails I've gathered. If things came down - the damage I could do would be epic.

[Owl]

So what do you want to do here?

 

If you feel that her relationship to her boss is too close, and is interfering with your marriage...tell her that point blank. Tell her that you're not willing to sit here and play third man in this relationship.

 

Tell her point blank that changes need to be made...NOW.

 

Identify some clear boundaries, and identify clear consequences of those boundaries...and get them established now.

 

You don't need to wait...you don't need to hinge everything on more information.

 

One of your boundaries needs to be marriage counseling to identify those boundaries, and have someone to help the two of you build this marriage on a firm foundation.

 

Step up...stop waiting.

[0plus2is1]

I don't want to stay w/ her at this point. The only thing I want is closure by catching them at what they are doing.

 

I don't know it's the healthiest closure but it definitely would be the one that would give me the most satisfaction.

[Owl]

Closure is a buzzword...and really not much more than that.

 

If you're no longer wanting to be in a relationship with her...file for divorce and don't waste your time/money/effort trying to catch someone if you're going to end it with her anyway. Your better off saving that money for the divorce and the attorney to ensure you get what you should out of it.

 

If you're intent is only to catch her while you're on your way out...what advice are you hoping to get from LS? I'm curious...

[carhill]

I'm sorry to have to say this, but they're just going to laugh at you (if/when you "catch" them)

 

Truthfully, and I've seen this dynamic, Owls' advice is the most succinct. No real good for your psyche will come from doing anything else.

 

Without even knowing it, you're helping me. Thank you

[0plus2is1]

The boss thing has always been the line in the sand. I opted to give her the benefit of the doubt that she truly wanted to leave that life but I'm getting some pretty clear signs that she hasn't. If it were any other issue, I would fully be about marriage counseling.

 

The boss issue has always been the deal breaker for me and now I'm rather excited about blowing it to bits.

[Owl]

Just cut your losses and head out...you've already got all the info you need, and you've already made your choice.

 

Not much advice anyone can offer at this point, other than recommending good plans on divorcing.

[0plus2is1]

It seems that I only have a highly educated guess that they are doing more than maintaining their emotional relationship.

 

I really want to get hard proof that there's more going on so I can tell his wife. I don't feel that I have the right to use the nuclear option unless I have 100% proof that there's a physical relationship still going on.

 

There are too many kids involved to blow this thing out of the water over a past history, suspician that somethings going on, and a emotional relationship.

[carhill]

The kids are already involved in this dynamic. They sense everything around them. Following a specific script isn't going to alter that. If you later listen to them as adults sharing their views on this time, you might find the revelations interesting.

 

It's really not about the boss, right? You know it isn't...

[0plus2is1]

I totally disagree - her son (4.5 years old) has now clue what's going on and I highly doubt his 9 year old daughter does either.

 

The only time they have together is work and nothing else. At least since we've been together.

[carhill]

Of course they don't know what's "going on" but her son, whom I assume lives with you and whom you love, has a sense of you which belies intellectual understanding. As you're going about all these plans and posting here on LS (or even considering such discourse), you're giving off signals to him of discomfort, suspicion, and general malaise with your M.

 

It's OK to disagree since only you know all the facts and players, but it is something to consider moving forward. I personally would not even begin to speculate about the boss's marriage dynamic or daughter. Assuming that this issue affects her is in no way harmful to her well-being and could only serve to benefit it, since actions which could serve to benefit her would benefit her in any circumstance, even if such concerns are unfounded. Err on the side of the children, if you will

[0plus2is1]

I don't understand how breaking up families is good for kids. There are so many families that have the secret of a cheating spouse and the kids actually grow up quite well if they never find out.

 

They do a lot better than when a family is broken apart and, especially, if they are forced into a life of poverty because of the breakup.

[Owl]

So what do you want to do???

 

Divorce, or fight for your marriage???

 

It was YOUR comment earlier that you intended to break up but were just going to bust them for "closure" that led us down the path we're at.

 

What advice are you looking for?

[Untouchable_Fire]

1.There are so many families that have the secret of a cheating spouse and the kids actually grow up quite well if they never find out.

2.They do a lot better than when a family is broken apart and, especially, if they are forced into a life of poverty because of the breakup.

 

1. Assuming that kids are too stupid to know is a bad idea. Kids are sponges... and they pick up EVERYTHING, even if it doesn't make sense to them until they are 14 or 15

2. Complete crap! I've known poor kids that turned out better than rich ones. Also, one crappy marriage will do more damage to children than two happy ones!

[porter218]

1. Assuming that kids are too stupid to know is a bad idea. Kids are sponges... and they pick up EVERYTHING, even if it doesn't make sense to them until they are 14 or 15

2. Complete crap! I've known poor kids that turned out better than rich ones. Also, one crappy marriage will do more damage to children than two happy ones!

 

I 100% agree with UF. My son noticed something was wrong with my M at 15 months old. his first fully well developed sentence was kicking my H out of the house...he said "go away daddy, get out the house, close the door"( this was because he said "daddy makes you sad") Never ever underestimate what a kid picks up. My son was much happier when we separated. Living in a house with unhappy adults is no fun.

[porter218]

Oplus, don't stress it...her dirt will come to the light eventually. There should be no rush in ending a M. I know you are sick of feeling played by her, but this too shall pass. Just keep doing what you are doing and don't invest in a PI right away. PIs are most effective when you have laid the ground work for them. The GPS and such should help you figure out her pattern..be your own PI for now. Don't let it consume you too much while you are trying to get to the bottom of this.

[0plus2is1]

porter218: I am in total agreement w/ you on your last post. I want to take this slow and carefull. If I get too emotional, and jump the gun there's the chance I could be wrong about something and it will all blow up in my face.

 

Her dirt will definitely come out and the problems it creates will not be because of anything I've done.

[twice_shy]

I'm just about to the point where I want to hire a 007 to follow them around during the day.

 

I'd say do it. Something isn't right with your wife and this boss.

 

 

What are the chances of these two not still having a romantic relationship?

 

Very good.

 

 

At times it seems impossible that they aren't. They definitely still have a big emotional relationship and that's not undeniable.

 

Well how long are you going to put up with that? Hasn't it been long enough?

[Owl]

I repeat:

 

So what do you want to do???

 

Divorce, or fight for your marriage???

 

It was YOUR comment earlier that you intended to break up but were just going to bust them for "closure" that led us down the path we're at.

 

What advice are you looking for?

[pelicanpreacher]

1.Knowing the complete history of this woman and her propensity to cheat on her prior SOs with her Boss why were you inclined to believe that she didn't tell them some variant permutation of the same line she told you about ending her relationship with this man?

 

2.When your wife took you for a walk to explain her lunches alone with her boss what did you infer from the fact that she never disclosed this fact to you?

 

3.Could your wife's repeated mentioning of future potential 6 figure bonus checks be construed as an enticement to seduce you into remaining pacified to her open relationship with her boss?

 

4.Have you ever seen the results of the paternity tests done on her son?

 

5.Are you positive there are no other times they can't get together besides work?

 

6.If you find the evidence you're seeking is it necessary to disrupt and involve the children directly in adult matters like this?

 

You walked into this marriage with both eyes wide open and armed with enough doubt to end this relationship prior to marriage yet, because you felt intimidated by her, you proceeded to wed her anyway. Your desire now to be an "Avenging Angel" deigned to mete out justice for your perceived wrongs only serves to make you look spiteful and foolhardy for you are the only one culpable for every decision you've made to lay yourself down upon the sacraficial alter of your own making.

 

If you want your marriage to remain intact then you must demand that she quit her job so that you can pack up the family and, to quote Jed Clampet's kin, "move away from thar" or you will threaten to expose the affair! If not, then divorce her as amicably as possible and pull a Jed Clampet for yourself because the drama that you're planning to "get even" won't amount to a hill of beans in regards to your closure for your closure can only be achieved by accepting the role you played in your own demise.

 

If you feel true empathy for the Boss's wife and you have direct evidence of their liasons then you are obliged to provide her with said information without any attempt to converse or collude. Show respect by simply letting her have your evidence to consider with the same privacy you would afford yourself and leave the matter be. If she contacts you for more information then divulge only what you can prove.