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Okay, I know I'm not married, but I figured it's better to put this post on the thread that has people in long term relationships than people who are just dating.

 

I have lived with my boyfriend for almost three years, we have a one year old together. The thing is that I'm reaching the point that I had established earlier to leave by if nothing was progressing to the next step. I have talked to him about where he is in the relationship. He told me that he isn't ready to get married. When we talk with our friends or family he says things about what our marriage is going to be like and that kind of stuff. He was married before and has been divorced about five years. I don't believe him anymore when he tells me that he does want to get married. The old saying actions speak louder than words keeps coming to me. He seems to be unable to say that he loves me without me saying it first. He sometimes backs away when I kiss him or give him a hug. He always says he's joking, but it hurts more and more everytime he does it. He's given me reasons for why he can't marry me, saying that he wants me to grow up some more and that he's looking at the complete package and that kind of thing. I am 23 and while I may be young I was forced to grow up quicker than most people. (He's 27)

 

About a week ago we had an argument where I asked him what's the point of staying if I have to promise of a future together. He said that he's doesn't want to get married right now. After which I asked him why I should stay then. He said that things are complicated with us. So I asked him again why should I stay. He just said he doesn't know what's going to happen between us in the future. He's also said that he doesn't see the point in getting married and doesn't understand why it's such a big deal to me. It scares me to think about leaving. It would be different if it was just me, but I have a son and I have to think about supporting him.

 

I'm just feeling like I'm in a somewhat desperate state now in deciding what I have to do. I have talked to my dad about it and he said he would help me pay for an apartment for about four months. Then I would be on my own. I know that leaving him is possible, but just thinking about it is breaking my heart. I guess I just need advice. Am I wasting my time?

 

I have to add that we get along very well.

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You say you all seem to get along very well. But according to him, he says things are complicated between you both. Did you ask him what it was that he found was complicated? Sounds like neither of you are on the same page about how you both view the relationship. Maybe its possible since he was married before, hes a little gun shy of marriage again? However, if he doesn't really want to get married not sure why he is talking to friends/family memebers about it. Maybe someone else can give you a little more insight on what to do. However, only you can make that call as far as staying or leaving.

 

 

 

 

Jade

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You've been living together for three years and you have a one-year old child. Hmmmm....sounds like family-life to me.:rolleyes:

 

Just because he's not married to you doesn't mean that he's not responsible in the family he's created. So, I'm not sure what the big difference is to him unless it's keeping his 'options' open concerning the possibility of future romantic entanglements.

 

You're investing in this guy...but he's keeping his options open.? What does that tell you? :confused:

 

You're not going to be 23 forever. Don't waste your youth on a guy who won't commit. If he's scared....fine. There are treatment options available in counseling to help him work that out.

 

But if he's pretty sure he doesn't have a future with you as an integral part of the family, my recommendation would be to 'cut bait'.

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"he just said, he doesn't know whats going to happen between us in the future." Well really no one does know that for sure.

 

 

However,As ladyjane said, "unless its keeping his "options" open concerning the possiblity of future romantic entanglements."

 

 

This was my thinking also. I may be way of base here, but I don't know to many poeplemake a statement like that, unless they weren't sure at all they wanted to be a relationship. I mean to me, it sounds as if he doesn't want to get marriedremain in a relationship with you until something better comes along.:confused: It does sound sorta like you have re time/effort invested in theis relationship, and it appears to be kind of one sided. He can however, still be a decet dad to his child, and no, marraige isn't right for eveyone, but ofr him to say what he did about the future, just seems hes mayb biding his time?

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whichwayisup

Does he realize that even though on paper there is no marriage, and there are no rings on the fingers that having a child with you, living with you for 3 years kind of actually means - HE IS married to you? Legally you two are common-law.

 

What counts is the feeling of it all. From what you've described, sounds like he's just going through the motions of it all and still thinks of HIS future. Like you're some sort of landing spot for him to stay with until he meets someone else and falls inlove.

 

He has a committment to you and your child. Yes, LJ said it, family!! Family obligations! So, he better wake up and realize this. If he wants out and doesn't feel he can be your husband or be a father maybe it's time for some help so you both can figure out what is best. Go to marriage counselling, if you're religious, go talk to your priest/paster! Don't sit and wait to see if he decides someone else is out there for him.

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blind_otter

I disagree with the above. No offense, but just because you don't want to get married doesn't mean you want to keep your options open.

 

I can understand his reluctance. I don't ever want to get married again. I did it once, that was my chance. I can live with someone, or have kids with them, or whatever -- but I lost my faith in the institution of marriage. I think the committment is something I would make in my heart.

 

Also I really don't want to go through another wedding. And I think it's dumb to pay the government money eyt again for something that really AFAIK does not represent the committment that it used to.

 

In any event, is there a reason why you want to get married right now? Issues with the child, etc?

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You DO know he will have to pay child support don't you? Yes, even though you're not married.

 

I feel badly for you and your situation. A man who is in love with you doesn't act the way he does. Leave before he leaves you.

 

I really don't understand why girls continue to have babies with men like this. So sad for all involved.

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blind_otter

Some people really invest themselves in their marriage - and the idea of it. And when they divorce they not only divorce their partner, but the whole idea of marriage. Because you marry someone thinking it will be forever, and when it isn't -- well what the hell does that mean ? What is marraige then ? What does it represent if you've already made all the committments that marriage used to be a pre-requisite for?

 

No one has ever been able to answer that question for me.

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Some people really invest themselves in their marriage - and the idea of it. And when they divorce they not only divorce their partner, but the whole idea of marriage. Because you marry someone thinking it will be forever, and when it isn't -- well what the hell does that mean ? What is marraige then ? What does it represent if you've already made all the committments that marriage used to be a pre-requisite for?

 

No one has ever been able to answer that question for me.

 

When you marry someone forever and it isn't, it was a mistake. At least that's the way I looked at my past marriage. It was a failure and a mistake and all the red flags were there but I chose to ignore them.

 

Marriage is much more than just love and a commitment. You've got to choose the right person for you. That person has to have the same values and morals. You must be intellectually compatible. You must have a similar sense of humor and be compatible sexually. There's SO much more than just being comitted.

 

So what is marriage? For me it represents two people who have agreed to share their life and their love with each other through thick and thin. But in order to do that you must have a good foundation. If the foundation is rocky you won't make it through the bad times.

 

Don't know if that answers your question, I mean it's a tough one and different people might give you different answers, but for me that's it in a nutshell.

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I think it's perfectly okay for people to decide that they don't want to marry. But what's not okay is stringing other people along who do.:eek:

 

The OP has a right to her own pursuit of happiness. If traditional marriage and family is what she wants....who's to say that she should settle for less?

 

There are all sorts of reasons why people want to be married. Sure, that 'piece of paper' is no guarantee....but it IS a vow. It represents the intention of staying in for the long-haul. For me, that vow is important and binding before God and man, a sacrament to be respected.

 

Religious aspects aside, there are all sorts of legal reasons to get married as well; taxes, insurance, medical rights, etc. The little details in life add up. I can't speak for anyone else, but I can't imagine having to clarify all those little details by explaining my living arrangements to other people. So for all those reasons, Marriage is the choice that was right for ME.

 

But I don't really see this as a question of absolute right or absolute wrong. People who don't want to marry EVER, have reasons that are just as valid and compelling to them and mine are to me. The BIG problem is that these two philosophies don't mesh well under the same roof....because one or the other partner is NOT getting what they truly need. :(

 

Anyway, if traditional marriage is what important to this young lady, she shouldn't have to set her own goals aside. If her boyfriend is completely opposed to it, maybe he's just not the right guy for her. Better for her if she knows it sooner rather than later.

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RecordProducer
Am I wasting my time?
I don't think so. You live together, he supports you, you have a son together. You're a community, except for the paper. Why exactly do you want to be married? Is it for financial reason, because he might leave you some day and you'd be on your own?

 

He also might divorce you. The thing is, he is not ready and you can't make him ready. If you leave, he might not follow you. But even if he does come around, he will feel forced to marry you and it will influence the way he treats you.

 

I think you should let it rest and enjoy your love. Find a job so you can support yourself and your kid in case something happens to hi or he leaves. In any case, he would be obligated to pay child support. And in any case, you need to be independent when living with a man who is not sure he will grow old with you.

 

The point here is not whether he wants to marry you and your goal is not to make him marry you. The point is that he is not sure about your future and that's not good. So play with the dealt cards - become financially independent. Go back to school if necessary so you can find a better job position.

 

Go out with friends, meet new people, show him that you don't need him in your life for anything other than love. You don't need him to pay your bills or take care of you. And he'll come around... Just don't mention the "M" word anymore! ;)

 

we get along very well.

Good for you! :)
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Somehow I don't think "traditional" marriage is what this young lady was after when she decided to have a baby before marriage.

 

Not judging but that is NOT traditional. It may be common nowadays but it's still not traditional or conventional.

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RecordProducer
Somehow I don't think "traditional" marriage is what this young lady was after when she decided to have a baby before marriage.

 

Not judging but that is NOT traditional. It may be common nowadays but it's still not traditional or conventional.

Well many women don't want to abort a baby made with love. They hope that the baby's father will marry them or they simply want the child.

 

The child and tradition have nothing to do with the fact that she wants to get married. She wants security in all aspects. Things would've been the same if the child was from a previous relationship. She wants to feel "married." I told my husband last night that we had a great time when we were dating, but he was just a boyfriend. Now I have the security that we'll be together always and I don't have to worry about what the future brings for us.

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blind_otter
The BIG problem is that these two philosophies don't mesh well under the same roof....because one or the other partner is NOT getting what they truly need. :(

 

What about his needs?

 

I can totally see why other people would want to get married, but I still see no like absolute or objective reason in general.

 

When I was married we filed separately because the tax penalty was higher when we filed jointly.

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Well many women don't want to abort a baby made with love. They hope that the baby's father will marry them or they simply want the child.

 

The child and tradition have nothing to do with the fact that she wants to get married. She wants security in all aspects. Things would've been the same if the child was from a previous relationship. She wants to feel "married." I told my husband last night that we had a great time when we were dating, but he was just a boyfriend. Now I have the security that we'll be together always and I don't have to worry about what the future brings for us.

 

Sorry, don't agree. If she wanted security "in all aspects" she would have made sure to not get pregnant before marriage. I mean I can't think of anything that would make me feel more insecure than THAT! Period and end of story.

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catgirl1927

Divorce can really sour you to the idea of marriage. The main thing I took from mine was "NEVER AGAIN."

 

My question is, has he ever told you he was going to marry you in a certain amount of time? Has he ever misled you about his ideas about getting married?

 

I don't like him telling you that you need to grow up. That's not very nice. But he might mean that he wants to be sure you turn into a person on your own, instead of just riding his tail all your life.

 

I think what he's looking out for isn't so much to avoid marriage, but to avoid divorce.

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What about his needs?

 

His needs would likewise best be suited by a person with a compatible philosophy. If these two folks can't even find common ground on the basics, they're just spinning their wheels for the long-haul.

 

If it's gonna crash and burn anyhow....isn't it better now than 10 years from now? Less painful if you ask me.

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blind_otter

I agree, but I feel like there was a heavy stress on something being wrong with HIM.

 

Which I disagree with....I don't think there's anything wrong with either way of thinking, but I do agree that they aren't compatible. And you can't strong-arm someone into respecting the institution of marriage, so the OP is the prverbial scylla and charibdis. Between a rock and a hard place.

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RecordProducer
she would have made sure to not get pregnant before marriage.
The only certain way is: to not f*ck!

 

I understand your point, but tradition is irrelevant here. Tradition is just marketing, if you ask me. She wants to marry the guy with or without a child and not because of tradition. Would you marry someone only because it's traditional and you totally don't understand what other reasons people might have for getting married? :confused:

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Come on now! All us women have TOTAL control over when we get pregnant. We can use the pill, sponge, spermicidal foam, Norplant, shots and have the guy use condoms when we have sex. Anyone ever heard of Planned Parenthood?

 

 

Now, you need to decide whether staying with the guy in your current situation is enough, or move on.

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The only certain way is: to not f*ck!

 

I understand your point, but tradition is irrelevant here. Tradition is just marketing, if you ask me. She wants to marry the guy with or without a child and not because of tradition. Would you marry someone only because it's traditional and you totally don't understand what other reasons people might have for getting married? :confused:

 

 

Tradition ISN'T irrelevant at ALL. I mean marriage itself is a tradition so how can you say it's irrelevant. She obviously cares a LITTLE about tradition if she even wants to get married. And to answer your silly question (sorry, but it is) NO I wouldn't marry someone only because of tradition. And NO I wouldn't marry someone based on what other people's reasons are for getting married. I don't even get your point there:confused:

 

Perhaps you could clarify your point.

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I agree, but I feel like there was a heavy stress on something being wrong with HIM.

 

Which I disagree with....I don't think there's anything wrong with either way of thinking, but I do agree that they aren't compatible. And you can't strong-arm someone into respecting the institution of marriage, so the OP is the prverbial scylla and charibdis. Between a rock and a hard place.

 

There IS something wrong with HIM! He decided to have a child out of wedlock. He can walk away I suppose. But is that the moral thing to do? Or would the right thing be to marry the woman he had a child with?

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On the grounds of me getting pregnant, there are accidental pregnancies! I was on birth control. We were using two kinds of birth control, pill and condom. There is a reason that birth control is not one hundred percent. I wasn't ready to have a kid, but I wasn't going to live with myself if I had an abortion. Look on every birth control product and you will see that not one says 100%.

 

On the grounds of my boyfriend. His last marriage was because of a pregnancy. In which they were using nothing. It lasted a mere six months. They were pressured into a marriage and we see how that turns out. I understand that it is not good to pressure him and I don't want to. I just felt that it was time that I knew what was going on. I'm not hounding him every second that I get. I've talked with him about marriage only a couple of times. I've remained calm all times and have had a demeanor that I felt wasn't pushy.

 

I want to thank everyone for their point of view thus far.

 

I do have one question for you. Instead of leaving him right now do you think I have the right to ask him about going to counseling. I feel we both have issues that could be addressed and hopefully better understood with a third party in the mix.

 

I also want to say that if he had told me from the beginning that he didn't want to get married I would not have stayed around. It is something that I do want. There was a question on if he promised me a time limit. He was the one who said that he wouldn't make me wait three years at the beginning of our relationship.

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Come on now! All us women have TOTAL control over when we get pregnant. We can use the pill, sponge, spermicidal foam, Norplant, shots and have the guy use condoms when we have sex. Anyone ever heard of Planned Parenthood?

 

Now, you need to decide whether staying with the guy in your current situation is enough, or move on .

 

 

 

 

:D LOL!

 

 

 

My first wife had the cruelty to get pregnant before admitting to an affair while I was in the gulf war. It worked, I stayed because of it. All it did was end later on for the same reasons though, and a child suffered, and still suffers, because of it. Will she ever admit to it? Never has, and probably never will.

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blind_otter
There IS something wrong with HIM! He decided to have a child out of wedlock. He can walk away I suppose. But is that the moral thing to do? Or would the right thing be to marry the woman he had a child with?

 

I don't think it's wrong. I got pregnant out of wedlock last year and lost the baby.

 

I didn't want the man who got me pregnant to marry me or have anything to do with me. He is in prison for trying to kill someone now. He was psychotic and I never ever ever wanted to be pregnant with his baby, but I had to go through with it because I don't believe in abortion. I can't kill something that's alive inside me just because it's inconvenient or other people think it's wrong.

 

I tried to get him to sign an order of no contact because I didn't want his money or him in my life.

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