Follow up- What would YOU do?

[ConfusedGal]

Please read my thread "I messed up soooo bad..."

OK, so at work hubby has taken a few extra days to rethink our decision...So we actually DO have a chance to think about it...Meanwhile, a small firm is interested in me there but potentially the salary could be 40k less... But I dont even have that job but they want me for a second interview... Do we stay safe and stay here?? They told him he will definitely be the next person to get promoted here if he stays... We will be "safe" here career wise and financially...OR do we take a big chance?? Go and potentially have it be great or regret it?? WILL we able to be happy here or will we KEEP dealing with issues from my parents and WISH we would taken less money and gone away?? I dont know!!! I wish answers like this fell from the sky....So its logic (stay) vs. taking a chance...WHAT WOULD YOU DO? We have never faced such a complex decision ever...

[Becoming]

Decide for myself based on what it is I want out of life. If I don't know what that is, I can't make any decisions. Instead, I just run around like a headless chicken in a blind panic wanting everyone else to just tell me what to do, only to find later it really wasn't what I wanted to do.

 

Instead of running around in a panic, why not sit down and have a real soul-searching conversation with yourself re: what you want life to look like in five years then ten years and start plotting how to reach these.

[ConfusedGal]

Hi Guys,

 

I know I saw annoying and indecisive, but thats because I kind of am... But I am still very lost about this decision... Part of me knows that if we stay here I will be divided between my husband and Mom all the time...But the other part of me fears taking a big step down in my career if i move, something I have really worked for... If I stay, how do I deal with my mother and commit to my spouse? And you guys tell me "Just tell her it is your life. Etc." You guys do NOT know MY mother... For example, conversation with her last night:

 

She calls me (sounding like someone DIED) and is like

"How are you?"

 

Me: "I am fine. Just tired from work."

Her: "You are lying to me. You never tell me anything."

Me: No mom. I am fine. Just tired from work.

Her: I know you are not telling me something.

Me: I AM REALLY FINE! (calming down) How are you? You sound tired.

Her: See? You can tell when I dont sound good. You know something is wrong. I sound sad because you sound sad.

Me: BUT I AM NOT SAD.

Her: Then I am not sad.

 

ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! The other day, Dad's blood pressure is high becuse he misses me. Mom is always sick. Her back will break if I dont love her enough... Everytime I visit, she starts crying about not being hugged enough or some crap. SHe will NEVERRRR CHANGE!!! Explaining things to Her does NOT work!!! And to be honest, her behavior DOES distract me from focusing on my marriage... And what she ALWAYS says is "You arent like before. You used to be my best friend." ARGHHHH! Of course I am not. I am 27 and married, not 21... These things drive me crazy. Explaining them to her doesnt help because its "You all blame me. Poor mom." And "I want what other people have. THeir daughters are their best friends. I want a shoulder to cry on." and "Other peoples son in laws are like this and that."

 

So you see??? HOW can I deal with the completely irrational behavior and NOT let it affect me?? I am seeking genuine advice here. I want to folllow it. Really, I do.... I am trying to determine if I dont move, whether I can continue to handle all this, or in your opinion, it really IS better if we move, even if it means taking a pay cut. Please, I am seeking genuine logical advice here after knowing more about my situation....

[Becoming]

You're right. They're not gonna change. It comes down to you managing your life and what you want to do.

 

Take the pay cut and go be married to H instead of parents. Freedom from emotional incest (which is what has happened to you--read that book by the same title) is worth more than a big pay check.

 

Ok. I'll shut up now.

[ConfusedGal]

Thanks becoming... I appreciate it. I have never been in a such a confusing situation in my life to be honest... Close friends tell me it may be silly to leave a pefectly good place where I am living and doing fine on the professional front and run away just cause of mom. They say I need to confront her. And is she says she will have a stroke, so be it.

 

Then I hear, just go away and rebuild your life...maybe its worth the additional hardships...

 

Honestly, I dont know...Have never faced a situation quite this tough EVER.

[hotgurl]

well what does you husband think? You are telling us your friends opionions & your parents opionions. But not yourds and your hubby's.

 

That is what really matters. What do you and your husband want your life to be like. Money can always be made and lost careers can be rebuilt or changed.

[ConfusedGal]

He is confused as well... But he thinks more on lines of the job situations. He knows HE has a great promotopm but I could lose a a lot in terms of my career and in turn, we could lose a lot of $$. He says he hopes I learned a LOT from this whole mess since I pushed him into the moving issue, and now we have a chance to back out..He hopes I will completely change my outlook on everything regardless of what we decide, especially with regards to confronting my parents...As I said, that is the hardest thing for me...

[whichwayisup]

Somehow you are going to have to shut off the feelings your folks make you feel. YOU are incontrol of your own thoughts and feelings. Not them.

 

Your mom seems very manipulative and pulls on the heart strings to make you feel bad and guilty. She is reflecting HER feelings on to you, so then you'll react and do what she wants.

 

Don't try to figure them out, they're your folks, they love you and cannot be objective when it comes to their baby. Trust me, that is how they perceive you still! Stay strong, make boundries and be abit tougher. Like if they call and pull that crap on you - Just say, I can't talk right now, I'm sorry Mom that you're having a bad day, and I hope you feel better tomorrow...

 

Eventually they WILL change their ways to fit your boundries. It has to happen. Or you could just open up and tell her how it makes you feel when she does X,Y and Z. But is that opening a can of worms? Can she handle it? If she is anything like my mom, she can't or won't. So, it's easy to shut it off and live your life FOR yourself and your husband. You don't need your mom's approval and you don't owe her explanations anymore, you're not a child.

 

Ofcourse it's hard to deal with, but please try to do these changes slowly, for your own sanity.

[michelangelo]

I suggest you seek counselling about how to interact with your mother.

 

If you stay, your interactions will be in person a lot more, of course.

 

If you go, your interactions will go up on the phone. so factor in the phone bill or get a vonage phone just for talking to your mom.

 

have the "talk" with your mom about how to interact with you. Describe as best you can that you cannot be her be all/end all and be held emotional hostage.

 

Then stick to it!

 

I suggested the counselling because this is about you becoming independent from her and focused on your marriage more so than on your mom.

 

Do what is best for the both of you. No decision of yours will please your mom, so don't factor in her wishes at all.

[ConfusedGal]

She wrote me this awful email saying I dont love her anymore blahh blahhh blahhhhhhhh.... She is soooo miserable blahhh blahhh blahhhh. So I decided maybe its a good time to confront her. I called her and in a nice way, said Mom whats the matter? You have no reasons to be upset....HOLY CRAP!!! She is like YOU ARE PUNISHING YOUR MOTHER....OTHERS MOTHERS AND DAUGHTERS BLAHHH BLAHHH BLAHHHHHHH. Starts crying on the phone. Says she was in ER a few days ago and didnt tell me. Says she tells her doctor how miserable she is and her daughter has gone far away from her. She is always miserable. Says she she doesnt sleep all night blah blah blah.So I am thinking "What the f--k did I do???" So I calmed down and said "Mom, if you want a relationship like other mothers and daughters, stop complaining and comparing and maybe you will get that." So regardless of the crap I got I kepy saying "Stop complaining and you will get a good relationship." But in response all she did was complain more and cry more and say "You will see when you become a mom. I hope your daughter does the same thing to you that you have done to me." I am like what did I do?? So I said, um what did I do? So she says "You have gone so far from your mother. Ask yourself..." ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! THERE IS NO BLOODY LOGIC!!! NONE!!

[michelangelo]

And take her there.

 

She needs help but you are not qualified to give it to her.

[ConfusedGal]

She wont do that. She would never do that. She tells me " I hope your daughter tortures you the way you torture me.." I dont get mad. I dont yell. I dont scream. I dont do anything. And apparently I torture her.

[michelangelo]

Unless she is clinically depressed and suicidal or something along those lines.

 

Then you may have to get her checked out even if she doesn't want to be.

 

Can you enlist the help of her family doctor? What about your dad?

 

Maybe call the MD and describe all what you 've been saying about her here?

 

Could be the MD can get her in to be checked for a physical and also do some psych eval right there.

 

And no, do not telegraph this stuff to her ahead of time.

[ConfusedGal]

My Dad is like this little stupid kid who repeats what she says like a parrot. He makes no difference. YOu know, already this massively stressful decision on whether to move or not, and now all this bull... This makes me lean towards moving...

[michelangelo]

This decision to move which yo've vaccilated about is a good one.

 

If as you've presented here, that your mother will refuse and rebuff any attempt to get her to stop this stuff and refocus herself on herself for happiness, then you have to detach.

 

Easiest way to do that is by moving.

 

My own wife's family's insistence on her dependence really interfered in our marriage. we blew it by living in a mobile home park they owned as a way to "get ahead."

 

what was supposed to be 6 months turned into 4 years with no end in sight.

 

That is, until I got a promotion and we moved out of state. we actually moved into a new home.

 

My wife was miserable for two years straight until she realized she was happy but feeling guilty!

 

She missed the whole sick dynamic which I won't go into here. However, now?

 

She is glad we got her away from her folks.

[ConfusedGal]

yeah, thanks. Thats what I am thinking...He got this promotion. Even though I may take a massive pay cut, perhaps its worth it in the long run for our sanity and healthy marriage. You can see, there is NO LOGIC with her, None whatsoever... And you cant say ANYTHINg. it turns into " you are blaming me. You always blame me." Same crap.

[michelangelo]

If you just focus on this "massive paycut" instead of focusing on the incredible opportunity and freeing moment this is, you will act like your mom does.

 

At 27, you have no idea what the future holds. This should be so exciting!

 

And when you get to where you are moving to? Things may open up that you have no idea about yet.

 

I am excited about the move, what it'll do for you and your husband.

 

It is a good thing. No, a great thing.

[ConfusedGal]

I would be moving to Minneapolis from the East Coast. Like I said, my DH has taken the option to rethink this whole thing because of me. I just push him according to me. Really... Do you think I should tell him about this discussion with my mom today or just keep it to myself??

[ConfusedGal]

If I tell him what happened, I think he just may say "Then forget it. We are not moving. Not running away from them."

[michelangelo]

If you want to move tell him that. no more waffling!

 

He just wants to be happy with you.

 

But if you do tell him to stick with the move, put both feet into it.

 

No expressions of doubt. Just do it and get on with it.

 

Minneapolis is a fine place.

[ConfusedGal]

I just dont even know. I mean, do you think it would be me just running away from the problem? He would hate that... But on the other hand, I just dont think things can get better. Really... I dont. Ifs its been about 5 years of this, do you really think it can get better???

[michelangelo]

Your life can get better. You control your actions, not your mom's.

 

At the very least you can limit your in person interactions with her to when you want to visit her.

 

Letting her dark cloud rule your life is not healthy.

 

It will be so freeing for you to just focus on you and your husband.

 

Your insecurities are in full sway right now, but they won't always be.

 

Just think of how much cheaper housing is in Minnesota compared to the east coast.

 

All the new experiences you'll have. finding new favorite places to go, new shopping, making new friends. maybe starting a family.

 

It will be a gift to you and your husband going there.

[ConfusedGal]

Yeah...Unfortunately now he is thinking we should stay for financial reasons. I have pushed him into too many things...I pushed him to go, so he applied for the promotion. Then he got the promotion and accepted. Then I got freaked cause of no job prospects. THen he told the workplace he needed a few more days to really think. Now I will say I want to go again cause I had this fiasco with my mom ??? Good god. Why is life so freakin messed up?

[ConfusedGal]

HI Michelangelo,

 

I appreciate your advice... I am going through one of the most difficult phases of my life right now. Really, I am. Here I am...This sane intelligant 27 year old married attorney...whose insane mother is ruining her life and marriage...I tried to confront somewhat yesterday... It didnt work. What kind of mother says "I hope when you have a daughter she tortures you just like you torture me!" And when I ask her what the hell I have done, she just does that guilty "Nothing. You never do anything. You have gone so far away away from me" I mean, I dont even think she knows what she wants. Really, I dont. And then she goes I have never interfered in your marriage. What is interference?? You dont have to sit in someone's house all day to interfere. You cant completely mess up their minds and cause them to stop functioning!! And she told me not to tell my husbad about our conversation. How could I not?

I was so miserable...He tells me, "We have everything here.... Career is great. friends are great. THe only reason we would be moving is your mom. She has ruined our lives... If we stay, you HAVE to learn to handle that!" But can I ?Can I handle it??? Honestly, she is nuts. She is not going to counseling ANY time soon. That is a given. She will take it as an insult if you even say it. She always uses her health as a barrier... She is just poor mom, "begging for love". As she says "You think you are God dont you? Even if you beg God for something, he gives it to you." BUt the thing is, I dont think she even knows what she is asking for...I mean, I think her own life is SO empty, she just figures it must be my fault...We could move. But I have worked SO hard for school, exams etc, to get to the position I am at in my career. I could go there and get a job, but I would be stepping back 5 years in my career... WHAT DO I DO??? If I stay, my husband will ALWAYS expect that I deal, and eventually I know it will come to us just cutting my folks ou completely...If I go, we would lose financially and my career could go in the toilet...I just dont know...Im sorry... I just dont. I have never in my life been in such a terrible situation. And we have to decide by MONDAY!

[Becoming]

What it sounds like your mother is really trying to say is that you don't pay enough attention to her, according to her perception.

 

So ask her if this is right and exactly what it is she wants. I suspect you're right: she doesn't know. She has this perception, though, that all her other friends are getting something from their children that she's not. But it doesn't sound like that's true.

 

Is anything ever enough with her?

 

You have to be very clear with these people, regardless of who they are, but your mother is the toughest. You have to say, "I'd like to spend time with you on Mons. and Thurs. going out to eat or going grocery shopping together or whatever. {whatever you can/want to give}. On this day/time, I'll be around for {specify how long} to attend to anything around the house that you need or whatever--specify. "This is what I have to give. I'm sorry it's not enough for you, but that's all I have to give." (Doesn't matter what the reasons are. You have a right to leisure and to enjoy your H without feeling guilty. So don't go there. She'll try to.) "This is what I have to give" is your mantra. Negotiate with her for a schedule of time to see her that she can count on you being there for. Her insecurity is what's kicking up her anxiety. So set a schedule of time you're willing to do things with her that you'd both like to do.

 

Now be honest: would you really want to do this. Are you avoiding spending time with your mother? (No judgment--no wonder!) If you don't want to schedule time for her into your life or if you simply can't (my parents are clueless about my work commitments requiring so much), then don't bother having this conversation. Go to MN and don't look back.

 

What's the worst that could happen? You'd kill her? So you'll be free. You'll have to live with the guilt? Welcome to life (especially as a woman) and learn to deal with it. She or your father'll have a stroke and need constant care? That's what nursing homes are for and why they have each other.

 

You simply must read the book Emotional Incest. Don't remember the exact title, but you'll find it on amazon.com. Your mother is trying to live her life through you, and it's almost impossible for you to make any decisions as a result of her constant subtle manipulation of you, which is often done through her goodness and kindness. This is a tricky, tricky problem that has been going on since the beginning of your life, so you can't see it. But I'd be willing to bet your H can.

 

Even if you move, though, you are going to have to set clear boundaries re: what behavior you will/will not tolerate from her. i.e. "If you're going to harrangue me when I am with you, I have to leave because it's affecting my mental health in a negative way, and I know, as the good mother that you are, that you wouldn't want that. And when she starts, say, "Remember what I said, Ma?" When she continues and intensifies (as she will), simply walk out or hang up on her and ignore her.

 

If you're willing to put her on a regular schedule of time and attention, her insecurity will calm down a bit. This will be true with phoning later, which you can keep to once a week or whatever you want.